Females taking combat role positions in the future

bcsr

Well-known member
I really only have two things to say in this thread.

1) Men and women are different, and in this regard, I'm not convinced it's a good idea.
2) A large standing military is a good thing. Lethal force needs to be met with lethal force.
 

KiaKaha

Banned
I also find it quite distasteful how people always discuss military action as if its just some kind of flippant notion. That because it's so far removed and we only see images on TV and the newspaper we have the right to discuss such things such as entire countries and it's citizens in a detached manner.

Once again, just like most things- if it was happening to you - not from the perspective of being *in* the military, but if it was affecting you and your family and your country and your livelihood... then people wound not be so quick to take the stance they do.

People only care when it's happening to them.
 
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Starry

Well-known member
^^^ So true, Kia!

Earlier today I saw a very disturbing video about children being killed by drone strikes. I was prepared for it to be upsetting and horrific, but - despite my already strong stance against violence - I just wasn't prepared for how strongly it would affect me. These were still just images, but seeing them all together just hammers home the point more firmly than a single image can do. These are not hypothetical people, these are real people with lives, with families to mourn, suffering real pain and terror. All arguments regarding having a military seem to be about hypothetical ideas of an invader using lethal force... Don't confuse the hypothetical with the real. If someone invades using lethal force, do whatever you can to stop it (and it need not be lethal... You think people can't develop with non-lethal ways of defending themselves?), but don't pretend that it justifies what's happening now. Because nothing can ever justify killing innocent men, women and children.
 

coyote

Well-known member
some thoughts.....

i've been in the middle of armed conflict a number of times

i've seen the bodies torn to pieces - helped pick them up and lay them to rest

i've talked to mothers weeping over their dead children and husbands weeping over their dead wives

i've seen the devastation of homes and villages

i've witnessed women being tortured and raped by soldiers

these things happened in other countries than my own - they did not involve my own nation's military.

these horrific acts of terror, violence, and war were perpetrated by the armies of one nation against another, or against their own people, or by armed anti-government forces against their own nation's military or its supporters

and the reason i saw all of these things was because i was sent there to try to stop it

my country did not go there to invade and conquer and cause death and destruction

we went to try to stop all that from happening - because we were asked to come there by the people who were involved

and in most cases we succeeded - because we were bigger and stronger and threatened to use force if the people who were doing the killing didn't stop

sometimes they didn't stop

so sometimes we had to make good on our threats - sadly and solemnly

and sometimes they still didn't stop

war is a terrible, awful, horrible thing - no sane, reasonable, rational person thinks otherwise

but wishing it to go away doesn't make it happen

i don't agree with everything the leaders of my country decide to do - there are plenty of other things on which i would rather see my tax dollars spent than what they choose to spend it on. i use my vote. i am as disturbed and outraged by the improper and immoral use of force as anyone else. but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be prepared to use force when it is moral and just to do so.

i would rather see all of the nations of the world resolve their conflicts peacefully and non-violently

but if a bully starts picking on someone, shouldn't someone stand up and make that bully stop? shouldn't it be the responsibility of someone bigger and stronger than the bully, someone who has the means to back it up? and should the bigger, stronger, responsible one then be called a bully for forcing the bully to stop?

maybe my nation is a bully. but if we stopped, someone else would take our place - you can be sure of that.

who would you rather have it be?
 
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KiaKaha

Banned
But that's exactly the point - maybe the bully is just a bully - not a protector or *cough* liberator.
Not all military action is justified nor is the actions of the individual members who participate within it.

And what people should focus on is not the adulation of the soldiers - but the lives of the everyday people who are affected by war - from any side of a conflict.
That is when people will stop placing warfare on some kind or moralistic pedestal and actually give people food for thought before jumping on the 'conflict is justified' bandwagon.
 

coyote

Well-known member
But that's exactly the point - maybe the bully is just a bully - not a protector or *cough* liberator.
Not all military action is justified nor is the actions of the individual members who participate within it.

And what people should focus on is not the adulation of the soldiers - but the lives of the everyday people who are affected by war - from any side of a conflict.
That is when people will stop placing warfare on some kind or moralistic pedestal and actually give people food for thought before jumping on the 'conflict is justified' bandwagon.

where did i say that all conflict was justified?

...i am as disturbed and outraged by the improper and immoral use of force as anyone else. but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be prepared to use force when it is moral and just to do so.

i would rather see all of the nations of the world resolve their conflicts peacefully and non-violently

there are parties out there in the world who DO NOT want to resolve things peacefully - they want to kill each other

should we just stand by and let them do it?
 

KiaKaha

Banned
Sorry I was just using hyperbole.

but in all seriousness, firstly - what makes you think you have the right to police the world? and secondly that isn't the point from my last post - the point is what is the justification of dozens of counties where no reason for war or conflict exists aside from political foreign policy?
 

bcsr

Well-known member
but if a bully starts picking on someone, shouldn't someone stand up and make that bully stop? shouldn't it be the responsibility of someone bigger and stronger than the bully, someone who has the means to back it up? and should the bigger, stronger, responsible one then be called a bully for forcing the bully to stop?

maybe my nation is a bully. but if we stopped, someone else would take our place - you can be sure of that.

who would you rather have it be?

And there it is...perfectly said.

But that's exactly the point - maybe the bully is just a bully - not a protector or *cough* liberator.
Not all military action is justified nor is the actions of the individual members who participate within it.

And what people should focus on is not the adulation of the soldiers - but the lives of the everyday people who are affected by war - from any side of a conflict.
That is when people will stop placing warfare on some kind or moralistic pedestal and actually give people food for thought before jumping on the 'conflict is justified' bandwagon.

It's funny seeing you say that, considering you you talk all the time about standing up for people. Evil exists in this world, do you think it's going to just vanish because we stop preparing to meet it? Nonsense.
 
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Section_31

Well-known member
I think here both lines of thought are valid and legit. Nobody wants conflict or war. This is a circular arguement/debate thats been ongoing for as long as theres been conflict. I dont believe theres any real answer here.

I wish i really had somthing constructive to contribute, but i dont unfortunately.
 

KiaKaha

Banned
It's funny seeing you say that, considering you you talk all the time about standing up for people. Evil exists in this world, do you think it's going to just vanish because we stop preparing to meet it? Nonsense.

All I am asking coyote to do is question his thinking and values, perhaps things arent as they appear to be - that's all.

actually I was just thinking about this - and you are quite right. However there is a difference between standing up for weak and justifying a political position. War, murder, destruction, killing of innocents, collateral damage and everything else that is ****ty with military intervention is not the same thing as protecting the weak and under privileged.

and whose to say who is evil. Yes of course there is - but while the intent may be noble - maybe it's the 'good guys' who are actually have something to answer for.
 
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Roman Legion

Well-known member
I am curious, how many people here have even been in the military? I ask because the building blocks to a valid argument are Logic, Credibility and the least favourable part being emotional appeal. I have been in the US Army for 5 years now and I think I have made my position clear on two of the three parts to a valid argument. Finding out the credibility of military service might help me weigh both arguments better, but that is my thinking here.
 

coyote

Well-known member
I am curious, how many people here have even been in the military? I ask because the building blocks to a valid argument are Logic, Credibility and the least favourable part being emotional appeal. I have been in the US Army for 5 years now and I think I have made my position clear on two of the three parts to a valid argument. Finding out the credibility of military service might help me weigh both arguments better, but that is my thinking here.

United States Marine Corps
Active Duty 1982-1988
Seargent/E-5
Combat Intelligence
 

Remus

Moderator
Staff member
firstly - what makes you think you have the right to police the world?

Therein lies my second question.

If a policeman sees a crime taking place, does he weigh up how he will benefit from it or not before stepping in?
 
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