what do you think - am i a 'nice guy'?
- Thread starter coyote
- Start date
hidwell
Well-known member
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Agent_Violet
Well-known member
So that's why you have been very quite on the board lately.h:
not at all...I don't fit in here and to be really blunt,this place depresses me more than anything.Too much wallowing, over-thinking,and dwelling on the negative.
Agent_Violet
Well-known member
There's hope for the nice guys.Girls just have to grow up and learn to appreciate a nice man for who he is instead of always getting hooked with the bad guy and attempting to "fix" him.
bcsr
Well-known member
Very true.
vj288
not actually Fiona Apple
I really don't think, in general, males (and females) are categorized so black and white like whether it be for romance or otherwise. But in calling someone a "nice guy", is first establishing that as his most notable quality. There are lot's and lot's of "nice guys," they are just also other things. Interesting. Funny. Smart. Outgoing. Creative. Musical. Passionate. Romantic. Compassionate. Athletic.Loving. And I don't want to generealize for a gender, especially one that is not my own, but in the long run I think hardly anyone looks for a not-nice guy. Some people do of course, but in general people want to be treated nicely. The "bad boy" phase is a phase for a reason, most grow out of it. And the "I can fix him!" mentality has burrowed deep within it a reason to want to fix the person, some other quality liked about the person.
Coyote is a nice guy, I would call him one, but I also don't speak "in code." When I mean nice guy, I mean nice guy. He is also clever, funny, spontaneous, and random. When some other people say "nice guy," it is a "nice way" of calling someone - a pushover, unassertive, timid, lacking confidence, ect ect. And to many, those are not positive traits. The context of "nice guy" is incredibly important, in general the term isn't used explicity but inferred (or almost expected) implicitly. When asking someone if their boyfriend is a nice guy, you may get a weird look, as if it's a stupid question. Of course he is!
Another possible context I can think of is that of nice meaning submissive, and submissive being a feminine trait. That's why you don't hear any problems with being called a "nice girl," because it is in fact exactly what gender roles expects girls to be, sugar and spice and everything nice.
Saying girls don't like nice guys is like saying you didn't make a sports team because you are too good at the sport, or failing an exam because the professor didn't understand because it was over his head. Maybe it was your lack of professionalism that prevented you from making the team. Writing a 20 page paper when the limit was 5 may have gotten you an F rather than the quality. There are lot's of nice guys in relationships, there are lot's of every type of person in relationships actually. If you're happy with who you are, don't change to what you think other people want you to be like and you'll find someone who likes what you are. If you're not, I don't think the niceness is the problem. If you wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and think "I am too nice," either you don't mean nice or you aren't actually nice.
Coyote is a nice guy, I would call him one, but I also don't speak "in code." When I mean nice guy, I mean nice guy. He is also clever, funny, spontaneous, and random. When some other people say "nice guy," it is a "nice way" of calling someone - a pushover, unassertive, timid, lacking confidence, ect ect. And to many, those are not positive traits. The context of "nice guy" is incredibly important, in general the term isn't used explicity but inferred (or almost expected) implicitly. When asking someone if their boyfriend is a nice guy, you may get a weird look, as if it's a stupid question. Of course he is!
Another possible context I can think of is that of nice meaning submissive, and submissive being a feminine trait. That's why you don't hear any problems with being called a "nice girl," because it is in fact exactly what gender roles expects girls to be, sugar and spice and everything nice.
Saying girls don't like nice guys is like saying you didn't make a sports team because you are too good at the sport, or failing an exam because the professor didn't understand because it was over his head. Maybe it was your lack of professionalism that prevented you from making the team. Writing a 20 page paper when the limit was 5 may have gotten you an F rather than the quality. There are lot's of nice guys in relationships, there are lot's of every type of person in relationships actually. If you're happy with who you are, don't change to what you think other people want you to be like and you'll find someone who likes what you are. If you're not, I don't think the niceness is the problem. If you wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and think "I am too nice," either you don't mean nice or you aren't actually nice.
Kiwong
Well-known member
I'm not a nice guy. Fundamentally flawed in many ways, a badly drawn boy, I like to put it. A weird mix of my parents, both good and bad, with a splash of individuality. There are qualities and passions that make me glad I was born me and not someone else, and that makes me want to keep on living. With all my flaws I reckon I am someone worth figthing for. I never give up, and I've achieved heaps for someone with severe social anxiety. I'm all about trying to live these days.
Sucess in relationships is something I have not achieved. I haven't had any. My experience in the romantic stakes was a bit of a nightmare. I was rejected and it hurt. Maybe women found me awkward creepy and weird? I don't blame anyone for that. Maybe I was attracted to all the wrong girls for all the wrong reasons. Physical attraction was right up there on my list. Was I shallow? I think so. Was I backward? Yes. A bit too much to expect anyone to be romnatically interested in me when I was so nervous I couldn't string two words together in their company. It's probably best I've never inflicted myself on anyone else.
I feel better now I am not so worried about that sort of thing.
Sucess in relationships is something I have not achieved. I haven't had any. My experience in the romantic stakes was a bit of a nightmare. I was rejected and it hurt. Maybe women found me awkward creepy and weird? I don't blame anyone for that. Maybe I was attracted to all the wrong girls for all the wrong reasons. Physical attraction was right up there on my list. Was I shallow? I think so. Was I backward? Yes. A bit too much to expect anyone to be romnatically interested in me when I was so nervous I couldn't string two words together in their company. It's probably best I've never inflicted myself on anyone else.
I feel better now I am not so worried about that sort of thing.
MikeyC
Well-known member
This doesn't make you a bad guy. It just makes you nervous.
Also, good to see you posting here again.
KiaKaha
Banned
I read this in a mens magazine today
If you’re nice at heart, you’re nice. You treat people well. Embrace it -- it’s a great quality to have. Don’t hide it by playing games and trying to be a bad boy. But what you need to do is be a great guy. Don’t be nice just to get a woman to like you. It never works.
Which I think is great advice.
Here is the trouble though -I think nice guys, the kind who treat people well, are considerate and generally easy to get along with are interpreted and misunderstood as men who are clingy, whiny and insecure - this is what I think is a little unfair - it is also, I think seen as simply boring.
So to compensate - to ensure that a man is NOT any of those things, there is a tendency to go for bad boys.... the jerks. They guys who are less considerate, the ones who ARE confident but bordering onto domineering and inconsiderate and sometimes abusive behavior. It is a fine line - sometimes I think girls tend to think in black and white unwittingly. Who does she choose? Mr Nice and considerate (boring and insecure) or Mr Bad boy (Confident and in control)
I don't think anyone wants to be treated badly - who does? That makes no sense at all - but I do find it quite interesting, and I speak from overwhelming mountains of experience, observation and research at just how many girls WILL be with a man who doesn't treat her very well at all - and to be honest, I don't really have a lot of sympathy for women who continually go for guys who treat them really badly. Although - that probably stems from constant rejection and being 'passed over' over and over again - I certainly would never want any one to be subjected to any kind of suffering or abuse at the hands of another.
My basic conclusion is this - Nice guys (proper nice guys - not this new definition of the term 'nice guy') simply don't invoke that internal feminine instinct that makes a woman feel attracted to a man - at least generally speaking... where as a man who is confident, but overly bordering on dominance and control - does.
I have a LOT of female friends (friend zoned) and they have even told me that they just cant help it - and I read on dating forums the same kind of sentiments that lead me to these conclusions (and those people are HARSH I can tell you - nice guys REVOLT them), I have even read in objective psychology magazines written by female psychologists (who date) who say the same thing - although no one will openly say it like the way I just have.
Bad boys - are the epitome of confidence - they also invoke a sense of challenge, excitement and an opportunity to change them into something more ideal.
Nice guys - are boring and are mistaken for passivity/insecurity and weakness.
Personally - I like treating women with a degree of consideration and courtesy - seems that these days that is mistaken for being a pushover it feels. I dont know man - maybe my sense of reality has become skewed over time... when you hear things like "I prefer emotionally distant men" or "you are too kind" or "I dont really like sweet guys" or "you're an emotional tampon (meaning I was listening to her and trying to understand what she was saying - that is just the words she chose)" "You are too understanding for me" (All things that have been said to me - among many others) you kind of start over analyzing and try to find answers.
Oh and one last thing - I am not saying there are not any exceptions, nothing is a rule - I am just saying overall on a macro level this is what I can see. But hey - you know, sometimes when I see a shy guy with a girl, or read comments by Agent Violet or Pookah or when I see evidence of a genuinely decent chap who just wants the best for his girl, who wants to be nice simply because he likes her whilst keeping his own principles in tact - then all of this stuff ^^ just doesn't matter. Doesn't happen often, but when it does - it's a good feeling.
The IT Crowd - All women want bastards. - YouTube
If you’re nice at heart, you’re nice. You treat people well. Embrace it -- it’s a great quality to have. Don’t hide it by playing games and trying to be a bad boy. But what you need to do is be a great guy. Don’t be nice just to get a woman to like you. It never works.
Which I think is great advice.
Here is the trouble though -I think nice guys, the kind who treat people well, are considerate and generally easy to get along with are interpreted and misunderstood as men who are clingy, whiny and insecure - this is what I think is a little unfair - it is also, I think seen as simply boring.
So to compensate - to ensure that a man is NOT any of those things, there is a tendency to go for bad boys.... the jerks. They guys who are less considerate, the ones who ARE confident but bordering onto domineering and inconsiderate and sometimes abusive behavior. It is a fine line - sometimes I think girls tend to think in black and white unwittingly. Who does she choose? Mr Nice and considerate (boring and insecure) or Mr Bad boy (Confident and in control)
I don't think anyone wants to be treated badly - who does? That makes no sense at all - but I do find it quite interesting, and I speak from overwhelming mountains of experience, observation and research at just how many girls WILL be with a man who doesn't treat her very well at all - and to be honest, I don't really have a lot of sympathy for women who continually go for guys who treat them really badly. Although - that probably stems from constant rejection and being 'passed over' over and over again - I certainly would never want any one to be subjected to any kind of suffering or abuse at the hands of another.
My basic conclusion is this - Nice guys (proper nice guys - not this new definition of the term 'nice guy') simply don't invoke that internal feminine instinct that makes a woman feel attracted to a man - at least generally speaking... where as a man who is confident, but overly bordering on dominance and control - does.
I have a LOT of female friends (friend zoned) and they have even told me that they just cant help it - and I read on dating forums the same kind of sentiments that lead me to these conclusions (and those people are HARSH I can tell you - nice guys REVOLT them), I have even read in objective psychology magazines written by female psychologists (who date) who say the same thing - although no one will openly say it like the way I just have.
Bad boys - are the epitome of confidence - they also invoke a sense of challenge, excitement and an opportunity to change them into something more ideal.
Nice guys - are boring and are mistaken for passivity/insecurity and weakness.
Personally - I like treating women with a degree of consideration and courtesy - seems that these days that is mistaken for being a pushover it feels. I dont know man - maybe my sense of reality has become skewed over time... when you hear things like "I prefer emotionally distant men" or "you are too kind" or "I dont really like sweet guys" or "you're an emotional tampon (meaning I was listening to her and trying to understand what she was saying - that is just the words she chose)" "You are too understanding for me" (All things that have been said to me - among many others) you kind of start over analyzing and try to find answers.
Oh and one last thing - I am not saying there are not any exceptions, nothing is a rule - I am just saying overall on a macro level this is what I can see. But hey - you know, sometimes when I see a shy guy with a girl, or read comments by Agent Violet or Pookah or when I see evidence of a genuinely decent chap who just wants the best for his girl, who wants to be nice simply because he likes her whilst keeping his own principles in tact - then all of this stuff ^^ just doesn't matter. Doesn't happen often, but when it does - it's a good feeling.
The IT Crowd - All women want bastards. - YouTube
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BlueDays
1
^Maybe you need find a whole different set of people to hang out with Kia.
I have never met any girl/woman throughout my life who WANTS to date a "bad boy" who treats her bad.
Many of the females I have come across have left men who first pretended to be decent men then turn out to be controlling and inconsiderate.
You do know that just because a guy might be confident it does not mean he is automatically a "bad boy". I have known guys who are confident and they are NOT controlling bullies, one does not always equal the other.
I have never met any girl/woman throughout my life who WANTS to date a "bad boy" who treats her bad.
Many of the females I have come across have left men who first pretended to be decent men then turn out to be controlling and inconsiderate.
You do know that just because a guy might be confident it does not mean he is automatically a "bad boy". I have known guys who are confident and they are NOT controlling bullies, one does not always equal the other.
KiaKaha
Banned
Yes I know - which is exactly the point I am trying to make - except in contrast. Quiet, gentle considerate men does not equal insecure, clingy and weak - people don't seem to be able to tell the difference very well. I know the two are not exclusive from one another - The point I am merely saying that people (both men and women) often cannot discern between these characteristics and get confused between admirable traits and not so admirable traits. It is no wonder so many people never show any kind of weakness or vulnerability (particularly men) for fear of being branded an insecure weakling - and rather over compensate instead.
I also don't think people like to be treated badly - but I do find it peculiar that so many choose (and stick with) people who do. Just look at my neigbour, or my friends sister, or the countless other examples I can think of. Perhaps someone can shed some light on why this is.
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Starry
Well-known member
The opportunity to change them? ... Sounds like the epitome of madness to me... Nobody should go around trying to change people to be more suitable... They should try finding the suitable ones to begin with... Madness, I tell ya!
Also, I can see NO reason whatsoever to find a "bad boy" attractive... Seriously, I HATE the "bad boy" image... "Badness" and confidence do not go hand in hand, in fact, quite often it can be the sign of a lack of confidence... If confidence is what is attractive, then surely the quietly confident man is superior to the "bad boy"...
But what do I know? I'm quite clearly a mad human surrounded by "normal" people... And quite frankly, I don't like "normal" because it's downright absurd!
Rest assured Kia, there are people in this world who have some sense (according to my view point lol).
bcsr
Well-known member
KiaKaha
Banned
What I am saying is a similar thing - but from another perspective. A confusion - or misinterpretation. Not whether someone is actually nice - but how there are associations of what being a nice person actually means.
And as I said - if a man cant tell the difference between being nice and being manipulative and needy - then clearly he is a moron.
And as I said - if a man cant tell the difference between being nice and being manipulative and needy - then clearly he is a moron.
