Do you believe in God?

hoddesdon

Well-known member
Intelligent design can't be tested as a hypothesis, therefore it can't be considered as science. It is dogma not science. Believing in it is a matter of faith.

Neither can the theory of parallel universes be tested as an hypothesis, yet it is presented as fact in magazines like the New Scientist. Neither can Mickery's contention in this thread that life may have made millions of unsuccessful attempts at creating itself (meaning it is not a miracle).

So they are both dogma, not science.

Therefore the theory of parallel universes does not explain away the extreme fine-tuning of the universe which makes life possible; neither can the fact that life itself is an inexplicable miracle be explained away.
 

Kiwong

Well-known member
Neither can the theory of parallel universes be tested as an hypothesis, yet it is presented as fact in magazines like the New Scientist. Neither can Mickery's contention in this thread that life may have made millions of unsuccessful attempts at creating itself (meaning it is not a miracle).

So they are both dogma, not science.

Therefore the theory of parallel universes does not explain away the extreme fine-tuning of the universe which makes life possible; neither can the fact that life itself is an inexplicable miracle be explained away.

On the other hand scientifitic disciplines and theories such as geology, genetics, continental drift, sea floor speading, palaeobotany can zoology that contribute to evolutionary theory can be tested and falsified as hypotheses.

I agree that areas of physics such as you cite can not be tested, and yes they are dogma not science. New Scientist a populist science magazine not a peer reviewed journal where the results of scientific research can be published.
 
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hippiechild

Well-known member
nobody's isolated wind in a test tube either, but it surely exists as a phenomena. Consciousness, just like wind, is not a substance, but an emergent property of complex systems.

anyway, I believe in a divine order in the universe, which could be called God.
 

Mickery

Well-known member
Neither can the theory of parallel universes be tested as an hypothesis, yet it is presented as fact in magazines like the New Scientist. Neither can Mickery's contention in this thread that life may have made millions of unsuccessful attempts at creating itself (meaning it is not a miracle).

So they are both dogma, not science.

Therefore the theory of parallel universes does not explain away the extreme fine-tuning of the universe which makes life possible; neither can the fact that life itself is an inexplicable miracle be explained away.

Respectfully, if you criticize others for not adhering to factual, testable hypothesis, I expect you to adhere to it yourself. I enjoy philosophical discussion of all kinds, but will not respond to posts like this.

I'll address this part though, since I already started.

... extreme fine-tuning of the universe... life itself is an inexplicable miracle...

1) Not fine-tuned. Life, thus far, consists of a tiny variety of tiny animals on a tiny rock, unable to move from their tiny habitat. Universal support for life is effectively zero.

2) Life is more than just us. Does life require water? Air? Carbon? A fine-tuned Universe is conceptually based on what broadly amounts to a single example.

3) This is the only formation of Universe. What if the current strength of gravity is the only strength of gravity and no matter how many Universes existed, gravity was always the same because that's just what gravity is?

4) Every observable Universe supports life. If a Universe could not contain life, we would never know because we would be unable to experience it. Therefore, to any third party, the result will always be Yes.

5) The Universe is actually extremely likely. If this is the only Universe, and it supports life, then the chances of a Universe supporting life are 100%.

6) Just kidding, the odds are actually unknown. It is impossible to calculate the likelihood of any circumstance without knowing the context within which it occurs. My horse is entering a race, what are the chances of it winning?

So you’re saying that if the other universes can’t support life they’re totally purposeless and considered a failure? How could you be sure that they aren’t created for other purposes like maybe supporting some other kind of energetic form of life maybe the life after death(I’m not saying this is true just a guess) or maybe having a major role in the equilibrium and dynamic balance of the universes? There could be many other possibilities.

Sure, why not! I wouldn't presume to know what's going on out there and the reason behind it, if any.

As you said an accident surely can happen in a single successful event out of trillions of times but taking a good look at everything around, it is noticeable that there is far more than only one successful event.

It depends how you quantify the creation of life. My preference is that, say, a cell mutation that creates something new is the event and then all future replications are just that, copies of the original manifestation. It does not deny the existence of God to believe that He started the Big Bang and that the Universe arose naturally from a single supernatural jump-start.

But it is just a preference, I appreciate there are valid arguments to the contrary.

From what I’ve seen, everything has a reason behind its creation some we know of and some we don’t.

How does one define the reason of God (or anybody else) other than by a reason of your own?
 
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I believe in God to an extent. I'm not sure if everything in the bible is true, but I sure hope there is an afterlife of some sort and I surely don't believe in hell. If God loves everyone there would be no need for such a place.
 

Nl54

Well-known member
No, I don't believe in a god or gods. Can someone tell me why I should? Then get from that general idea of god, to why someone should accept your particular version (religion)
 

MollyBeGood

Well-known member
No I don't .
though part of me thinks life would be easier if I did. I cannot see how one person/ thing created all of us and everything...though the way technology is going so fast maybe someday we will know more about creation in general. That would be interseting to know what the cutting edge scientists know now ,but don't share. I don't believe in a book written so long ago by people who were really not the same as we are today in so many aspects. I was introduced and groomed for the church but I didn't want to be a part of a religious group of any kind at a very young age. I didn't want to be a part of something that wasn't based on science. But at the same time science is godless right so thats not good either. I believe in love and kindness as religions. Thats where humans are at their best and not for a cause, just to be. Not because they have to be.
 

djkghigh

Active member
i believe there is but i don't believe everything that is written in the book/books seeing they're so many versions each giving a different translation for particular verses
 

nightcrawler

Well-known member
No I don't. I find it quite an interesting topic and have read books debating each point of view, but ultimately I don't believe.
 

Apotheosis

Well-known member
I believe that without faith most people would lose hope in themselves and the world.

I myself can't accept the existence of an "Almighty God" because if there is one, He is either wholly indifferent or actively malicious.

Despite that, I have hope that there is meaning to our lives beyond what we currently see and understand - and without that hope I would already be dead. The idea of a single entity doesn't make sense to me, but there is some potential in Hindu theology and similar beliefs in a sort of "Universal Being" composed of, and connected to all things.

That type of belief is also much more possible when compared to current scientific theories on the quantum structure and composition of the universe.

Put simply: even if I don't believe in God, I still believe in good.
 

NickyNacker

Well-known member
I am not religous, I consider myself agnostic. I believe that there absolutely has to be a higher power. I'm not sure if it would be a God, though. But higher power, yes. Life is a miracle and this world, the universe, all of the galaxies... it's just too much and too beautiful to just be here. In my opinion. But if I think about it too much I get confused wondering, ok, if there is a god... where did he come from? What was before that??? It's so mind boggling.
 
God is a relative term. Spiritually speaking, God is simply what's in your mind to make you feel better about living.
I like to believe in God sometimes. Everyone needs to feel better about themselves many times in their life. Broken hearts, lost loves, loneliness.
Crying is a euphoric drug-like emotion that everyone needs.

The truth of myself anyway, is that I hate religion and what it does to societies.
I just like the mystery of life. The unknowns. The universe. The deep sea. All the species on the planet we know nothing about. Natural disasters.
The meaning of life is out there somewhere. The fact that I'm living in a reality I have no clue about except what society tells me is a pretty neat thing in my opinion.
 

MollyBeGood

Well-known member
no.
but when it's dark and i hear stuff moving when they shouldn't be doing so i get some paranoia about creepy evil things.

ohmygosh I was thinking I heard a baby crying in the night and I was happy for my dog to be guarding me. There is no baby here. Thankgood ness for dogs.:)
 

Shant

Well-known member
I believe there has to be some deity, some being behind it all, but everything else is unclear. Technically I'm inclined to believe in something. But what, I don't know. I'd probably have a better answer if I wasn't being butted around by other people on this matter where I'm not allowed to believe the only thing I'm capable of believing.

I'm almost kind of agnostic at this point, but I'm in a strict Christian family and last time I talked about how I truly felt about these kinds of things... not even going to get into that aftermath. That, and now I'm going to a small group which in their opinion will "help" me overcome this difficulty. This is made worse by, somehow, having the rotten luck in having this, out of every "small group" I've done in my life, somehow I finally ended up in one where the others were actually supporting others and I was welcomed from the beginning.

It's just that nothing else makes sense in life, and I suppose I've been jaded to the point where I can't hold on to the fundamentalist optimism where "Just hope in God and somehow everything will be in the clear". I swear I've held onto that for over half my life to no avail. I don't see how continuing to do the same thing anymore.

It's like I have no freedom to think even in this matter. >_> Atheists will tell me to just give up the notion of a God and Christians will tell me to just join the faith again because it's "not that difficult". I've even hoped the God would soon enough bring mental clarity into this issue. Not happening, clearly. Maybe I'm not in the best mood to be posting anything regarding theology...
 
B

Beatrice

Guest
I've even hoped the God would soon enough bring mental clarity into this issue. Not happening, clearly.

I think many people have wished this. I would say most never get the results they're waiting for. I wished the same thing. Then I sort of just said, "Whatever, this isn't making any sense. Why would it have to be such a mind game?" and proceeded to let it go for the most part.

Life is a mystery.

I'm not sure about evolution, to be honest - I'm not saying I deny it, but I'm not saying I buy every bit of it, either. I think we may have gotten a lot right in that department, but I also have the suspicion that we're wrong on some accounts, and that the truth is something far more complex, or at least different.

But, just my thoughts on the matter. Really, who knows. I can't help but laugh at people who swear by anything at all - whether it be God or evolution or something else - because I just don't think we know enough. Even about evolution. I don't think it can be said with certainty that our current scientific narrative is completely accurate. I suspect a lot of it is misinterpretation......

Ah, life.
 
Life is a mystery.

I'm not sure about evolution, to be honest - I'm not saying I deny it, but I'm not saying I buy every bit of it, either. I think we may have gotten a lot right in that department, but I also have the suspicion that we're wrong on some accounts, and that the truth is something far more complex, or at least different.

But, just my thoughts on the matter. Really, who knows. I can't help but laugh at people who swear by anything at all - whether it be God or evolution or something else - because I just don't think we know enough. Even about evolution. I don't think it can be said with certainty that our current scientific narrative is completely accurate. I suspect a lot of it is misinterpretation......

Ah, life.

Well said.
 
ohmygosh I was thinking I heard a baby crying in the night and I was happy for my dog to be guarding me. There is no baby here. Thankgood ness for dogs.:)

Could it have been a prowling critter? a bandicougar or bettalong or wombytroon - whatever you have there??
 

lunarla

Well-known member
I think many people have wished this. I would say most never get the results they're waiting for. I wished the same thing. Then I sort of just said, "Whatever, this isn't making any sense. Why would it have to be such a mind game?" and proceeded to let it go for the most part.

Life is a mystery.

I'm not sure about evolution, to be honest - I'm not saying I deny it, but I'm not saying I buy every bit of it, either. I think we may have gotten a lot right in that department, but I also have the suspicion that we're wrong on some accounts, and that the truth is something far more complex, or at least different.

But, just my thoughts on the matter. Really, who knows. I can't help but laugh at people who swear by anything at all - whether it be God or evolution or something else - because I just don't think we know enough. Even about evolution. I don't think it can be said with certainty that our current scientific narrative is completely accurate. I suspect a lot of it is misinterpretation......

Ah, life.

It's true, a lot is unknown, and a lot is likely not known well enough. But evolution, in the simplest of terms, is proven. Swearing by a god and swearing by evolution are completely different levels. One, on the basis of years of data intake, discoveries and experimenting from some of the greatest minds in science. The other, baseless.
 
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