Very socially capable

[Remus]

I think people can often do this and it is not intentional, it's human nature to form little cliques. I know of other forums who punish people who form exclusivity in their posts and replies. I think that's a rule too far and people should regulate themselves. If very close banter appears on a thread or in chat between two or three people, take it to messenger and further that friendship one to one. I guess even a place like SPW can exclude those without the confidence to socialise (it's the nature of the condition), it's something that has been brought up in topic often over the years. Give the newbies a chance I say.

 

[Deus_Ex_Lemur]

I re-approved the thread. Try not to attack each other. To me this sounds like some SA style paranoia about people's intentions that is totally off base. I have SA and have irrational thoughts too. The thing is recognizing they are irrational.

I hope we can have a reasonable respectful dialogue without getting flamey and attacky. Woohoo!

The Problem is the OP already puts ppl on a defensive and attacks ppl and makes irrational claims with no proof, despite at the core an important message which Remus just said.

A lot of people are excluded and deliberately rubbed up the wrong way on this forum.
Just for the fun of it.
For the lulz.
I don't think meticulous post preparation is to blame.

I am sorry you feel or felt these ways but where's the proof to your claims aside from just paranoia? I don't mean to belittle your comments by saying that - I'm extremely paranoid about social things, MANY of us are - but what we think we see isn't always what's seen. That's our SA! What it does to us. Such ppl doing as you say should be dealt with or looked into or reported... you make it sound as though it's a conspiracy.

Now to the general OP - People are going to get hurt regardless - ppl are going to feel left out. That doesn't mean we cannot be more aware and open to ppl who are new and less vocal. It's easy to put blinders on. There's only so much we all can do, that's part of being a community. Ppl who've been here longer of course get more comfortable and open and know ppl better of course are going to be more "chatty" or "bubbly". Does that negate THEIR issues less? Make them socially capable because they can be more communicative online and don't need help others need more... that's just salacious and personally offensive. I know members who have severe SA and spent months saying nothing, working up to communicate here and post a lot now... nothings exactly as it may seem on the outset.

Many people try to be open and welcoming FAR more than not. 90% of us are here for a REASON. It's not to make others feel bad and us better. I believe yes, I've seen ppl get off on tangents in a thread, perhaps could be done elsewhere, but it's not intentionally leaving others out.

At some point there's only so much other members can do, the rest is up to you. I myself have hot and cold moments here ... it's hard to communicate and sometimes easier and sometimes I can seemingly feel left out so to speak. I seemingly communicate well and am more "social" here, and would fall into the OP's category. BUT trust me I am not slick or anything in RL I am not at all as communicative or "bubbly". On the inside Im dying... or can feel that way... that's the key, feel that way, I know it's really not other's intent or have EVER felt ppl rub me for kicks those who do are OBVIOUS usually and get banned.

My issues shouldn't be belittled because of that JUST like the OP says less vocal, timid at first and newer ppl shouldn't either.

We're all (or most) here to feel acknowledged. To socially get support and interact with ppl who can relate with our problems and not feel so judged and be honest and open. But this isn't a swiss clockwork - we're all human (maybe Im not, so most of us anyways It's human nature to BE social, form cliques, despite our anxieties, why else would we be here... and certain ppl gravitating towards others is NATURAL... nothing wrong with that...

deliberately excluding ppl and "rubbing" ppl the wrong way INTENTIONALLY REQUIRES PROOF and examples, making that generalized claim just puts oil on a fire... and genuinely the majority of ppl are trying to help I think. I think it's more ppl just "forget" -




ppl have different levels and issues, which CANNOT merely be categorized post counts and communication. It's NOT that simple. I don't think any alienation of members is intentional.

At the end of the day, ppl can make others feel welcome only so much, it's up to that person to make the next step.

It’s not what happens to us, but our response to what happens to us that hurts us. Kinda BS, kinda truth.

We all can forget what it's like to be a new person and ppl have varying levels of SA and issues. I do and forget... I try my best, not always, I have my mega issues, and I can post a lot, and be bubbly, and chatty, I guess, I TRY to include all I can and be friendly to new ppl, etc. and my quirky responses and certainly have my friends, and respond to them more but not out of devious intention, But I'm only prosimian BUT I AM NOT BEING socially slick and networking or using this site for my own glee or fun - But we can make these forums a better place! And I think it's a fairly good place already that can get better.

 

[KiaKaha]

^^ well said Lemur

Like I said before, I dont think exclusion is intentional, nor do I think people are intentionally rubbing others up the wrong way. It just feels that way due to the condition we suffer from. I admit I sometimes feel it too... even going so far to start a thread about it myself. Social Anxiety is the master of pretending to know what other people thinking.

Perhaps its time for a thumbs up "like" type system for posts, especially for the more apprehensive posters just so people can FEEL like they are being acknowledged and have a sense of belonging without the actual need to respond to every post out there? (I mean come on...admit it...you get a bit of a rush when someone likes your facebook posts...)

This is actually a topic that is fairly interesting to me. I have always been interested in the dynamics between how people behave and react to one another.

Anyway. Thats all I wanted to say for this thread. Thanks for bringing it back pookah

 

[Waybuloo]

Bravo for making this thread

I think a support forum about social anxiety is tricky. Most forums create rapport among certain users and hence indirectly social exclusion for others. But when social exclusion is the subject matter then people should be more understanding and less socially segregated. Of course you cannot change human nature. I fear you won't make less involved people speak out as much as you making a statement. Either way I support this thread.

Deus_Ex_Lemur I've seen enough instances where most 'non-vocal' users or those not 'in' get ignored, whereas those friends with eachother just reply to their own posts. What a way to make everyone feel valued and included.

 

[Waybuloo]

^^ well said Lemur

Like I said before, I dont think exclusion is intentional, nor do I think people are intentionally rubbing others up the wrong way. It just feels that way due to the condition we suffer from. I admit I sometimes feel it too... even going so far to start a thread about it myself. Social Anxiety is the master of pretending to know what other people thinking.

Perhaps its time for a thumbs up "like" type system for posts, especially for the more apprehensive posters just so people can FEEL like they are being acknowledged and have a sense of belonging without the actual need to respond to every post out there? (I mean come on...admit it...you get a bit of a rush when someone likes your facebook posts...)

This is actually a topic that is fairly interesting to me. I have always been interested in the dynamics between how people behave and react to one another.

Anyway. Thats all I wanted to say for this thread. Thanks for bringing it back pookah

This has been done before but only contributed to people feeling unpopular and unworthy.

 

[Waybuloo]

that's a shame, truly

i can't speak for other bubbly fun people, but i know that i would hate to leave anyone feeling like that

but how would we know if they just sit there, silently, not saying anything, not reaching out?

why would we not assume that they would rather be left unbothered?

why would we we not assume that their silence and withdrawal indicates a reluctance to participate which we want to respect?

so many people post that they "hate loud, chatty, people and they wish they'd just leave us alone" but then when they're left alone, they lament that as well

there has to be some give and take

Well I am not a silent one who just sits there for fear of speaking. However, I still feel left out as much of what I say is ignored. So that leaves me feeling, maybe I am really worthless for people to like. But fortunately I have moved on, but it's just a shame that there are other people here who still feel hurt. I am sure it's a combination of people who are silent and those who speak out but are ignored anyway.

 

[OceanMist]

I think the OP is right, there are some people that fit the profile the OP speaks of. I've seen them before, but this site is a little better than another site I used to visit, that had more of the people I'm referring to.

It seems there are some people that come on here to make shy people feel bad about their social problems. They'll say stuff like, "You don't know how to stand up for yourself as a man," that seems to be a popular shaming tactic that these people will use.

That shaming tactic is hurtful to both the person they use it against because it emasculates the guy, and it's also hurtful to women because it is basically trying to put men above women. It's similar to telling a guy that he "throws a baseball like a girl." That statement insults women because they are saying throwing like a girl is bad, weak and not right.

Another complaint I have with responses, are many people are quick to blame the individual, rather than society. The "it's always your fault" shaming tactic seems to be popular in these type of forums. The people that use this shaming tactic often fail to recognize that society isn't set up perfectly, and that there are many flaws that many people have in society that contribute to a shy person's failures in the social world.

Shyness isn't all a choice for most people on here. I wish people would be more consoling to the fact that some things aren't our fault, instead of calling us failures.

 

[Rembrandt Broam]

Another complaint I have with responses, are many people are quick to blame the individual, rather than society. The "it's always your fault" shaming tactic seems to be popular in these type of forums. The people that use this shaming tactic often fail to recognize that society isn't set up perfectly, and that there are many flaws that many people have in society that contribute to a shy person's failures in the social world.

I don't think it's a case of blaming the individual, as much as trying to make the individual see that society isn't going to change. You're absolutely right when you say that society isn't set up perfectly, and that it's flawed. It is. Very flawed. But that isn't going to change any time soon, and those of use with SA need to try to change our behaviour to fit in with society as it is, rather than society as we would like it to be.

 

[megalon]

I know I fit into the outsider category. Even having been a member here more than three years, I don't have anyone here that I would consider an online friend or even an online acquaintance. I don't think anyone is excluding people to try to hurt them though. I understand that it's just human nature that people will form these cliques with others whom they get along with. I know it's my own anxiety about posting that keeps me out of the loop and I don't blame it on the more expressive people here.

 

[Ms Cloud]

...and those of use with SA need to try to change our behaviour to fit in with society as it is...

Lol, I won't be doing that any time soon. I'm not so impressed with the society I was born into, that I would completely change myself to fit into it.

Same goes for this place, or any other. If you don't naturally fit into an existing majority, then forget about fitting in and start your own inner circle. Being an outsider, you're more likely to find like-mindedness amongst your fellow outsiders anyway.

 

[NathanielWingatePeaslee]

A lot of people are excluded and deliberately rubbed up the wrong way on this forum. Just for the fun of it. For the lulz. I don't think meticulous post preparation is to blame.

I really, really think you're mistaken about this. If it's true, I'd like to know examples (and report them to the mods if possible).

Unless paranoia really does have an unbreakable hold on you, you're probably aware that I've always found you to be good company in the chatroom. I don't give a rat's ass about cliques and from what I've seen from posting here for a long time now, this place isn't nearly as 'high school mentality' as people are making it out to be.

To me this sounds like some SA style paranoia about people's intentions that is totally off base. I have SA and have irrational thoughts too. The thing is recognizing they are irrational.

Yes, very much so.

Bravo for making this thread

I think a support forum about social anxiety is tricky. Most forums create rapport among certain users and hence indirectly social exclusion for others. But when social exclusion is the subject matter then people should be more understanding and less socially segregated. Of course you cannot change human nature. I fear you won't make less involved people speak out as much as you making a statement. Either way I support this thread.

Deus_Ex_Lemur I've seen enough instances where most 'non-vocal' users or those not 'in' get ignored, whereas those friends with eachother just reply to their own posts. What a way to make everyone feel valued and included.

Of course people will interact more with their friends than with strangers. In a nutshell, you seem to be saying that making friends with other posters here is mean and hurtful.

I'm pretty sure I've straight-up told you before that I appreciate your posts, and most of the time I agree with what you have to say, but I really have to disagree on this one.

I think the OP is right, there are some people that fit the profile the OP speaks of. I've seen them before, but this site is a little better than another site I used to visit, that had more of the people I'm referring to.

It seems there are some people that come on here to make shy people feel bad about their social problems. They'll say stuff like, "You don't know how to stand up for yourself as a man," that seems to be a popular shaming tactic that these people will use.

That shaming tactic is hurtful to both the person they use it against because it emasculates the guy, and it's also hurtful to women because it is basically trying to put men above women. It's similar to telling a guy that he "throws a baseball like a girl." That statement insults women because they are saying throwing like a girl is bad, weak and not right.

I must have missed something. Could you point me towards an example of this? In PM if you want.

Another complaint I have with responses, are many people are quick to blame the individual, rather than society. The "it's always your fault" shaming tactic seems to be popular in these type of forums. The people that use this shaming tactic often fail to recognize that society isn't set up perfectly, and that there are many flaws that many people have in society that contribute to a shy person's failures in the social world.

Shyness isn't all a choice for most people on here. I wish people would be more consoling to the fact that some things aren't our fault, instead of calling us failures.

I'm not sure what you mean here about the shaming tactics thing or trying to make people feel like being shy or having anxiety is their fault. I don't recall anyone saying anything like that--again, please direct me to an example if I've missed something.

 

[vexatiousmind]

In real life I am not socially inept, however I get anxious and it masks my personality, and blocks my thought process.

I don't get anxious on the internet, thus my SA is not expressed.

That is probably what you are seeing.

I don't think people try to make others feel bad, if they do the mods take care of it pretty quick.

Also someone may be trying to help, and might say the wrong things. We are not all experts on communication.

Maybe if you feel someone is attacking you PM them and ask about it. Most likely they will explain that they were not trying to insult you. If they respond by attacking you again, report them. This might be a good exercise to practice confrontation in RL.

 

[BiWinning]

sometimes it feels awkward when you want to post your thoughts or vent, but there is a whole other conversation going on in that thread, and you don't want to ruin the humour, so you just harbour the emotion to yourself. Then this site doesn't seem like a support site, it just seems like going to the therapist and having your mom in the same room.

 

[coyote]

sometimes it feels awkward when you want to post your thoughts or vent, but there is a whole other conversation going on in that thread, and you don't want to ruin the humour, so you just harbour the emotion to yourself. Then this site doesn't seem like a support site, it just seems like going to the therapist and having your mom in the same room.

thanks, i can appreciate that sentiment

i think that's the most constructive thing that's been said in regards to this issue

makes me have a big "hmmmm"

 

[Pookah]

If its the how you are feeling threads etc, I think obviously people won't respond to individual posts as much, etc. And in a regular thread people are responding to the OP, if they respond to a reply that is up to them. I don't know any forum where you are expected to reply to replies.

What some in support of this thread seem to be missing is the OP here is calling out not trolls or what have you telling you to get over SA, he is saying there are people here who say they have SA who are faking simply because they socialize better online. To me this falls under the site rule about saying to other people "your SA is not as bad as mine."

Some people have this as their only outlet for socialization. They had to adapt. I've been using the internet since I was 12. In real life you wouldn't get more than a sentence out of me as an acquaintance, and probably nothing if you were a stranger. Here I can measure my words and let what's in my head come out because this isn't face to face. I still can feel judged but its dulled by the medium.

Frankly I don't always feel comfortable replying to people I don't know if I don't think I have anything of merit to say. People I have known on here for a long time though, I have grown more comfortable with conversing with them so am more likely to participate. This to me is actually a sure sign of SA, not being secure enough to talk as much with strangers.

I very very much doubt anyone here is purposely excluding other people. I really don't see how its any individual's job to scan each thread for people they don't usually reply to to make sure they are included either. I really don't see how we can be expected to expend that much of our personal energy on here.

Most users do their best to be helpful and this thread will make those users feel like they shouldn't respond to anyone at all lest they be accused of excluding one person by including another.

 

[vj288]

What some in support of this thread seem to be missing is the OP here is calling out not trolls or what have you telling you to get over SA, he is saying there are people here who say they have SA who are faking simply because they socialize better online. To me this falls under the site rule about saying to other people "your SA is not as bad as mine."

This is the first thing that came to my mind when I saw this thread. This site is open for anyone, SA or not. It's safe to assume most of us have it to at least a varying degree, and are here for help and with the best of intentions.

Feeling like you have to prove to everybody there is something wrong with you and you "have the right" to be here should not be needed and is counterproductive in my opinion. We should try to be a social and push as many of our boundaries as we can, and not fear that because of it people will question the struggles we are going through.

Most users do their best to be helpful and this thread will make those users feel like they shouldn't respond to anyone at all lest they be accused of excluding one person by including another.

Yes, exactly.

 

[Silatuyok]

sometimes it feels awkward when you want to post your thoughts or vent, but there is a whole other conversation going on in that thread, and you don't want to ruin the humour, so you just harbour the emotion to yourself. Then this site doesn't seem like a support site, it just seems like going to the therapist and having your mom in the same room.

Yes, this is the only part of this conversation that I can actually understand and empathize with. The rest of it is just sad and confusing...I don't understand what is making some of the posters so upset, and that makes me feel blind and unfeeling (which I know I'm not).

 

[Thundercats]

sometimes it feels awkward when you want to post your thoughts or vent, but there is a whole other conversation going on in that thread, and you don't want to ruin the humour, so you just harbour the emotion to yourself. Then this site doesn't seem like a support site, it just seems like going to the therapist and having your mom in the same room.

I can agree with this. I think i've been put off posting things in this forum because I feel intimidated in this way. It seems everyone on this forum is a member of an exclusive group i'm just not part of. I know that probably isn't true, and i'm just not outgoing enough, but it seems like that sometimes. I'm sorry if i've misinterpreted your statement and missed the whole idea of this thread but those are just my thoughts.

 

[Pookah]

If you are newer you need to realize some of us have been here for years, because we haven't gotten any better with our illness and this is one of our only refuges. Some of us only have online friends. And its taken a long time to get those.

 

[Waybuloo]

I think people can often do this and it is not intentional, it's human nature to form little cliques. I know of other forums who punish people who form exclusivity in their posts and replies. I think that's a rule too far and people should regulate themselves. If very close banter appears on a thread or in chat between two or three people, take it to messenger and further that friendship one to one. I guess even a place like SPW can exclude those without the confidence to socialise (it's the nature of the condition), it's something that has been brought up in topic often over the years. Give the newbies a chance I say.

So these other forums punish people who form exclusivity in their posts and replies? That supports the legitimacy of the issue raised by the OP. If these other mods think it a serious issue...But I agree that when something gets too banter-like and personal, take it outside so that new posters don't feel like they are intruding on a private conversation when it shouldn't be.

I know I fit into the outsider category. Even having been a member here more than three years, I don't have anyone here that I would consider an online friend or even an online acquaintance. I don't think anyone is excluding people to try to hurt them though. I understand that it's just human nature that people will form these cliques with others whom they get along with. I know it's my own anxiety about posting that keeps me out of the loop and I don't blame it on the more expressive people here.

I think it's natural and almost expectant of new members to want to be accepted by an online community. Of course the problem here is that most people lack the tools necessary to endear others to them due to social problems. Yes some people have no problem online, but many others do. For them it defies the purpose of coming here if your fraternising cause them to feel excluded, yes maybe for their own fault..so then should they not come here? Maybe the best thing to do is to post a disclaimer in bold on every page, to remind people that due to the nature of their problem, they shouldn't have expectations of feeling involved or accepted on this forum, that the only expectation they should have is of learning more about SA.

Of course people will interact more with their friends than with strangers. In a nutshell, you seem to be saying that making friends with other posters here is mean and hurtful.

I'm pretty sure I've straight-up told you before that I appreciate your posts, and most of the time I agree with what you have to say, but I really have to disagree on this one.

I think you can get the gist of what i'm saying above.

sometimes it feels awkward when you want to post your thoughts or vent, but there is a whole other conversation going on in that thread, and you don't want to ruin the humour, so you just harbour the emotion to yourself. Then this site doesn't seem like a support site, it just seems like going to the therapist and having your mom in the same room.

What do you mean this site seems like going to the therapist and having your mum in the same room?

If its the how you are feeling threads etc, I think obviously people won't respond to individual posts as much, etc. And in a regular thread people are responding to the OP, if they respond to a reply that is up to them. I don't know any forum where you are expected to reply to replies.

What some in support of this thread seem to be missing is the OP here is calling out not trolls or what have you telling you to get over SA, he is saying there are people here who say they have SA who are faking simply because they socialize better online. To me this falls under the site rule about saying to other people "your SA is not as bad as mine."

Some people have this as their only outlet for socialization. They had to adapt. I've been using the internet since I was 12. In real life you wouldn't get more than a sentence out of me as an acquaintance, and probably nothing if you were a stranger. Here I can measure my words and let what's in my head come out because this isn't face to face. I still can feel judged but its dulled by the medium.

Frankly I don't always feel comfortable replying to people I don't know if I don't think I have anything of merit to say. People I have known on here for a long time though, I have grown more comfortable with conversing with them so am more likely to participate. This to me is actually a sure sign of SA, not being secure enough to talk as much with strangers.

I very very much doubt anyone here is purposely excluding other people. I really don't see how its any individual's job to scan each thread for people they don't usually reply to to make sure they are included either. I really don't see how we can be expected to expend that much of our personal energy on here.

Most users do their best to be helpful and this thread will make those users feel like they shouldn't respond to anyone at all lest they be accused of excluding one person by including another.

It actually comes across as social exclusion, especially when certain individuals have such ease and rapport with eachother and other and who always reply to the same people. To me it's kind of odd as well. It's not any individual's job to scan and reply to each post, but perhaps Remus' suggestion of taking personal and chatty remarks to a more private channel so as not to make others feel excluded. Sure you are telling your side of the story, but perhaps consider how people feel on the other side. You have had your social needs met, but other people feel even worse, when the very place from which they seek support alienate them even more. Please consider this as a special case because this is for people with social anxiety.