online dating

[Pookah]

You're missing my point. He's giving her the same that she gives him: Sex. If I give that friend you mentioned transport in return, then I'm not using him. Friends with benefits is a mutually beneficial situation where both parts get as much as they give in return.

We aren't totally sure she is on the same page though. She might be giving more than that. Quote below illustrating my point.

Of course she doesn't know this. Of course she wouldn't be cool with having me use her.

I'm going to do what those other women did to me and lie and not tell her these things, probably. Very hyprocritical, yes, I know.

I think it's better than telling her I think she's overweight, though, you know? That would be even worse.

 

[SM1010]

or who messes around with you and isn't clear about her intentions...

He's made it VERY clear to her that he doesn't want any type of commitment. At least that's what I've seen him say in this thread.

She knows this and yet still wants to spend time with him and even take it to an intimate level. Maybe she's perfectly fine with having a friends with benefits type relationship too? There are plenty of women out there that engage in these types of relationships, not just guys.

If she's not and really likes him, it was a poor choice for her to take it to an intimate level knowing full well that he's not interested in any type of committed relationship.

 

[Sial Axetder]

In a FwB situation someone usually always ends up feeling

 

[Aletheia]

I fear for you OceanMist.

If you are forever on the lookout for "a better girlfriend", you'll never learn how to appreciate the person you're with; you'll never find love.

 

[Rembrandt Broam]

He's made it VERY clear to her that he doesn't want any type of commitment. At least that's what I've seen him say in this thread.

It's one thing to tell someone that you find them attractive, want to spend time with them and have a sexual relationship with them, but aren't looking for a long term commitment. In fact, that kind of upfront honesty can only be a good thing.

It's a different thing entirely to think that someone simply isn't "good enough" to be relationship material, but since they're willing to sleep with you, you'll just fake the attraction in order to get a little physical satisfaction from them.

 

[OceanMist]

I think a lot of other people in the world would share this opinion, but see, it's because of this that we do have so many people in the world who use people. So many men who use women. So many women who use men, or as Sial put it earlier, a lack of sincerity.

People have become so worried by their lack of sexual experience that they abandon their morals to fit in and then what happens? The problem just gets bigger, and even becomes a 'social norm' of sorts.

If only more people could stick to their values, maybe we wouldn't have this. Maybe then, inexperience wouldn't be stigmatised, as Felgen says.

It's a vicious circle, and it's a shame. That's just my thoughts on it. I'm really done now.

A couple things here, the first being that I have repeated this at least two times in this thread I believe: I am not just with her for sexual experience! I'm sorry, but it's kind of irritating hearing that over and over again from you guys. I am with her for sexual and social experience. I'm with her to get the entire package, the connection on all human levels. I'm not just trying to laid.

The reason I even started online dating was mainly to learn how to talk with women. You want to talk about problems with society, well this thread has become a perfect example of what's wrong with society. People tend to think that when a guy is dating a woman to try to get experience with women, they automatically think that he's using her for sex.

And btw, inexperience will always be stigmatized in males. It's something cannot be changed. It's not just sexual inexperience that is stigmatized, but also social inexperience that is stigmatized. The best way to get experience is the get experience. We've preached in this thread how important experience is to get confidence.

I see your complaint about guys abandoning morals but let's face it, many of shy guys such as myself have to take advantage of opportunities. I repeat again, I question whether what I'm doing is even bad at all. How is what I'm doing much different than what many other people do, many people date around with multiple people just for fun with no intention for having a relationship or love. It's obvious they are just taking advantage of these partners for their own benefit. And what about all those sex-crazed college kids that sleep around at parties?

Come to think of it, how am I even the bad guy here when you think all the other people that are sleeping around at their own leisure? At least I'm being monogomous with this woman, put my intentions on the table on the first date (that I'm probably not wanting commitment). You know what's interesting is that she spoke with me about a reason why she thinks I'm a great guy. Because the other guys that were with her recently used her for sex and never even responded again to her. According to what's happened to her in the past, I'm a freaking saint.

Let's be honest here, if I was a woman and doing the same exact thing to a guy, would I even be being criticized right now? If I was, I can guarantee you it wouldn't be as much criticism.

It seems it's okay for women to sleep around and use men for sex, but it's not okay for a man to date one woman to get experience on a social and sexual level. You want to talk about problems with society, there's the problem.

 

[OceanMist]

I fear for you OceanMist.

If you are forever on the lookout for "a better girlfriend", you'll never learn how to appreciate the person you're with; you'll never find love.

So, I should just settle for a woman that I know I don't want to be with for a very long term situation? Hmm, no.

Why do people think my standards are so high? All I'm asking for is a woman that I can connect with that I believe is at least a 6 on a 1-10 scale. I'm more lenient than most guys, actually.

This thread has gotten kind of ridiculous. Just because I don't want to commit to a girl that isn't near my weight class I'm seen as a guy that is too picky?

 

[Felgen]

So, I should just settle for a woman that I know I don't want to be with for a very long term situation? Hmm, no.

Why do people think my standards are so high? All I'm asking for is a woman that I can connect with that I believe is at least a 6 on a 1-10 scale. I'm more lenient than most guys, actually.

This thread has gotten kind of ridiculous. Just because I don't want to commit to a girl that isn't near my weight class I'm seen as a guy that is too picky?

Wanting a woman who's average or above is just human nature. Nobody wants to mix their genes with someone their Darwinian mindset won't allow them to desire.

That being said, there's no harm in giving the girl who's slightly chubby (20-30 lbs overweight) and otherwise cute a chance. Likewise, a lot of girls could also give the guy who's not a pretty-boy / party animal or upper-middle class wannabe gangster a chance

 

[Agent_Violet]

Wanting a woman who's average or above is just human nature. Nobody wants to mix their genes with someone their Darwinian mindset won't allow them to desire.

That being said, there's no harm in giving the girl who's slightly chubby (20-30 lbs overweight) and otherwise cute a chance. Likewise, a lot of girls could also give the guy who's not a pretty-boy / party animal or upper-middle class wannabe gangster a chance

i'm a chubby girl and i won't give pretty boys,athletic boys,hard body boys a chance...it's bad for my self esteem to be with someone like that. even if they're a really good person inside. i'll be friends with them but i could never date them.

 

[Agent_Violet]

It seems it's okay for women to sleep around and use men for sex, but it's not okay for a man to date one woman to get experience on a social and sexual level. You want to talk about problems with society, there's the problem.

when a woman does it, she's labeled a sl*t and deemed less valuable or used.

 

[WeirdyMcGee]

when a woman does it, she's labeled a sl*t and deemed less valuable or used.

A woman doesn't even have to do that much to be labeled a slut or to be deemed as less valuable.

 

[Agent_Violet]

A woman doesn't even have to do that much to be labeled a slut or to be deemed as less valuable.

Very true.

 

[twiggle]

Let's be honest here, if I was a woman and doing the same exact thing to a guy, would I even be being criticized right now? If I was, I can guarantee you it wouldn't be as much criticism.

I disagree entirely. Though I can only speak with certainty for myself, I know that I would be just as shocked if a girl had written anything similar. It is unfair behaviour from either gender, I'm fully aware that there are manipulative women out there. I've even had guy friends be used, too. It is no less wrong than a guy doing it.

That being said, there's no harm in giving the girl who's slightly chubby (20-30 lbs overweight) and otherwise cute a chance. Likewise, a lot of girls could also give the guy who's not a pretty-boy / party animal or upper-middle class wannabe gangster a chance

I've found that recently the guys I've been most attracted to have been ones I've not found attractive at all upon the initial meeting. They've been totally opposite to my usual taste. It's one thing to have taste preferences but it's still possible to fall for somebody even if you don't find them attractive at first. It's the connection between you that overrides all else.

 

[sullyS25]

Let's be honest here, if I was a woman and doing the same exact thing to a guy, would I even be being criticized right now? If I was, I can guarantee you it wouldn't be as much criticism.

It seems it's okay for women to sleep around and use men for sex, but it's not okay for a man to date one woman to get experience on a social and sexual level. You want to talk about problems with society, there's the problem.

Im not going to say anything else about the situation with the girl. It is working out for you, you are happy with it and that is all that matters. I just dont agree with what I quoted man. Dudes are almost expected to sleep around to seem cool as we stated earlier. Hence that stigma against dudes if they dont have experience. Women on the other hand are labeled sluts pretty quickly and I am not sure where you got the idea that they can sleep around without any social consequences.

I do think there are a lot of girls that use guys though. So I will agree with you there.

 

[Feathers]

i'm a chubby girl and i won't give pretty boys,athletic boys,hard body boys a chance...it's bad for my self esteem to be with someone like that. even if they're a really good person inside. i'll be friends with them but i could never date them.

Violet you're not chubby, you're goregous!! /confused/

I've often felt 'too goodlooking' guys were suspicious and might be 'likely to stray' too (or annoy me with being too sporty/energetic or 'high maintenance' hm? Some were also more likely to drink or have 'iffy' or too 'macho' personality than others) lol... my dad even has a theory to not marry 'too goodlooking' people huh? (mum looked really cross when he said that!!)

There are guys who like 'big size' girls, and in previous centuries and in - is it Marocco? or another desert state - 'big size girls' are encouraged (and force fed!) and seen as 'beautiful' (in case of famine might survive better too!) so I think Darwin and 'size' may not have that much correllation - or it may be different in different cultures!

I can understand the concept of 'practising' somewhat, still, it was written in an insulting way, yeah... And if someone says 'probably' the other person may still think they might 'change' him or such... There are different people out there with different principles and views regarding these things I guess...?

Twiggle I agree people can become (even more) attractive over time, as one gets to know them... And yeah, I heard of cases where people fell in love (sometimes one-sided) even without any intention to do that! So beware OceanMist haha!!

 

[OceanMist]

A woman doesn't even have to do that much to be labeled a slut or to be deemed as less valuable.

That's exactly my complaint. You immediately label the woman as a victim in that situation and feel sympathetic for her. When I do it, I'm a jerk that is "just trying to get laid," according to society.

It seems like everyone wants the guy to be a jerk and then people want to make women the victim, by bringing up the whole slut argument, for instance.

 

[Felgen]

when a woman does it, she's labeled a sl*t and deemed less valuable or used.

This is because a woman has the passive role and can always end up going home with a guy from a night club, disco or bar if she says yes.

Typically, "slut rumours" are spread by other women, though... that's at least how it works in Norway and Sweden.

 

[WeirdyMcGee]

That's exactly my complaint. You immediately label the woman as a victim in that situation and feel sympathetic for her. When I do it, I'm a jerk that is "just trying to get laid," according to society.

It seems like everyone wants the guy to be a jerk and then people want to make women the victim, by bringing up the whole slut argument, for instance.

I'm sorry... did I say any of this? I was agreeing with Violet because I know from experience that a girl can be a virgin- can dress covered head to toe and be called a slut by everyone who crosses her path.

Why?
Because people are jerks to eachother.
That's what it boils down to.
Just like how someone can be used as someone elses stepping stone to something 'better'. That's what I have a problem with, personally.
I'm not in any way saying you're the only person on the planet who does it-- and you're not the worst person in the world for it.

You can do what you want-- it's no one elses business.
There's not much you can do to change people's point of view of you though-- just like how I couldn't stop anyone from calling me a slut in highschool; or from calling me an ugly freak, now.

 

[OceanMist]

It's one thing to tell someone that you find them attractive, want to spend time with them and have a sexual relationship with them, but aren't looking for a long term commitment. In fact, that kind of upfront honesty can only be a good thing.

It's a different thing entirely to think that someone simply isn't "good enough" to be relationship material, but since they're willing to sleep with you, you'll just fake the attraction in order to get a little physical satisfaction from them.

Actually, I find her personality very attractive. Sexual attraction isn't just physical, but it also has to do be with attracted to the person's personality in many cases.

I actually am attracted to her face, hair, eyes and personality. A guy doesn't have to think a woman is perfectly attractive in every way to sleep with her. If that were the case, people would be having sex with one person their entire lifetime if they were lucky.

Again, I bring up my argument from before, what I'm doing isn't much different than what many other people do in dating. Many people sleep with others that they may not be 100% attracted to. It happens all the time.

Yet, it seems I continue to be the bad guy here?

 

[Felgen]

That's exactly my complaint. You immediately label the woman as a victim in that situation and feel sympathetic for her. When I do it, I'm a jerk that is "just trying to get laid," according to society.

It seems like everyone wants the guy to be a jerk and then people want to make women the victim, by bringing up the whole slut argument, for instance.

Behind every guy that's "a jerk who sleeps around", there's a girl who've played mind games and toyed with his emotions to boost her ego. You seem to have improved a lot given that two months ago you were still a virgin.