online dating

[kilojoule]

I don't know if I wrote this before, but the first night we saw eachother I made it abundantly clear that our dates could end very easily. I specifically told her to not love me, to not call every day and I even said, "You may not like me very much if I reject you later on, which is a possibility.

WOW... kind of can't believe you said that. Poor girl. How humiliating for her.

 

[MikeyC]

I think the problem everyone is having is the dishonesty. Maybe she thinks she can help you with your anxiety and to commit. (Some ppl think they can fix others.) But she would stop seeing you if she knew what you really thought of her.

SA has a lot to do with worrying how people see us. Can you imagine being with a woman you were into and found out she thought a bunch of hurtful things about you?

I know that if a woman told me she didn't really find me attractive and was only using me as practice, I would be pretty damn offended.

 

[coyote]

Referring to a woman as a stepping stone until you find a better women qualifies as using them for sex in my book. Making it clear that you may date other people while you are seeing her seems fine as well. I dont see anything wrong with dating someone to help your confidence either. The language you use puts off the vibe that you are using her and she is only good for one thing. That is how it came off to me. I think that is completely different than girls dating other guys while dating you to see what is out there.

That being said I also recognize that women aren't saints either and can be manipulative and self-seeking. The way you worded your experiences with this chick make it seem like she is there for you to exploit and throw away as you see fit. That is shady. I am sure that is not how you see things but from the first few things I read, it certainly came of that way.

the other thing that has no doubt upset a number of people here, OceanMist, is that you seem to imply that the woman in question is somehow "substandard" because she is overweight, and that a woman who isn't overweight would be "better"

remember your audience - there are many people here who are very sensitive to issues of judgment over their appearance - even if you don't find it insulting to the woman herself, surely you can see where it might be considering insulting to your readers

 

[Kiwong]

Confucious say that using someone as a stepping stone could result in you landing face first in the water when you leap for the next stone.

 

[twiggle]

Referring to a woman as a stepping stone until you find a better women qualifies as using them for sex in my book. Making it clear that you may date other people while you are seeing her seems fine as well. I dont see anything wrong with dating someone to help your confidence either. The language you use puts off the vibe that you are using her and she is only good for one thing. That is how it came off to me. I think that is completely different than girls dating other guys while dating you to see what is out there.

That being said I also recognize that women aren't saints either and can be manipulative and self-seeking. The way you worded your experiences with this chick make it seem like she is there for you to exploit and throw away as you see fit. That is shady. I am sure that is not how you see things but from the first few things I read, it certainly came of that way.

Yes, this is how its come across.

OceanMist you say you told this lady you didn't want commitment and that's all well and good but it doesn't really make up for the fact that you've come onto a forum and admitted that you're "using her as a stepping-stone" (those are your exact words). You have also cited her being overweight as the reason why she's probably just a stepping stone. It comes across as awfully shallow. That's the problem here. You may have told her you're not one for commitment, but maybe you should have told her outright that you're using her as practice. Using somebody for practice doesn't fall under the same umbrella as 'not wanting commitment'. It also shows a massive disrespect to her that you're saying these things about her in a world forum.

And you can't tell somebody not to "love" you. Love isn't controlled just like that you know? It's not a decision that people make.

 

[THeCARS1979]

It never worked for me, maybe because I went about it the wrong way. Chances are I'll give it another chance but I'm thinking I wont find what Im looking for on there

 

[Gaucho]

how is it possible that this woman keeps calling you? I don't understand,she even knows that you don't care about her, but she keeps coming. Or she is very desperate or I don't know.

 

[OceanMist]

the other thing that has no doubt upset a number of people here, OceanMist, is that you seem to imply that the woman in question is somehow "substandard" because she is overweight, and that a woman who isn't overweight would be "better"

remember your audience - there are many people here who are very sensitive to issues of judgment over their appearance - even if you don't find it insulting to the woman herself, surely you can see where it might be considering insulting to your readers

I was saying that she isn't what I want long term as far as body looks go because she's overweight. That's my preference, not every man's preference.

I'm not saying that a woman who is overweight is unattractive to other men.

She is not substandard or less of a person because she is overweight. I'm not even saying there is anything wrong with being overweight. I'm just saying it's not what I prefer from a woman if I'm considering dating her over a very long period of time.

What sucks is if my issue with her was something like if I thought she was weird looking, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Calling her weird looking would be very similar, yet I wouldn't be catching the heat on here nearly as much if I did use the term weird looking. Not that I think she's weird.

 

[twiggle]

Just out of interest, what do you want in terms of body looks?

 

[OceanMist]

Yes, this is how its come across.

OceanMist you say you told this lady you didn't want commitment and that's all well and good but it doesn't really make up for the fact that you've come onto a forum and admitted that you're "using her as a stepping-stone" (those are your exact words). You have also cited her being overweight as the reason why she's probably just a stepping stone. It comes across as awfully shallow. That's the problem here. You may have told her you're not one for commitment, but maybe you should have told her outright that you're using her as practice. Using somebody for practice doesn't fall under the same umbrella as 'not wanting commitment'. It also shows a massive disrespect to her that you're saying these things about her in a world forum.

And you can't tell somebody not to "love" you. Love isn't controlled just like that you know? It's not a decision that people make.

The problem with your theory is that it's very insulting. What woman wants to hear that I'm using her for practice? I'd say about um, 100% of women don't want to be used as practice. If I went around telling all women that, I would have a very tough time getting a date and look like a total jerk in the process and have the woman kick me away from her immediately every time.

My name is anonymous on here and I could be anybody. You say I'm disrespecting her? Even if I was, it's not like she's going to find this and know it's me. Any guy across the world could be having this same thing happen to them. I am not using names here, or even locations. I think she'll be okay.

I don't really see how preferring a woman who is closer to an average weight is shallow, but I guess you think it is.

If she loves me after I told her I wasn't even interested in love, then that's her problem. I made it clear by saying multiple things about how I'm probably not looking for commitment.

 

[OceanMist]

Just out of interest, what do you want in terms of body looks?

As far as the body goes, I think you'd be surprised to hear that I'm pretty lenient. I would date a woman that is at least somewhat close to normal weight.

The ones I won't date on a very long-term basis are the ones that are obviously overweight. Again, just my preference, not all men's preference.

If a girl was obviously anorexic, I probably wouldn't want to date her on that long term type basis, either.

 

[twiggle]

The problem with your theory is that it's very insulting.

Well, surely that proves to you that what you're doing is insulting too, no?

My name is anonymous on here and I could be anybody. You say I'm disrespecting her? Even if I was, it's not like she's going to find this and know it's me. Any guy across the world could be having this same thing happen to them. I am not using names here, or even locations. I think she'll be okay.

She probably won't find this out, no. But that's not really the point here. It's a classic case of talking behind somebody's back. What you're doing is disrespectful and I'm very surprised that you seem to think it's okay. You should have more courtesy and respect for your sexual partners.

I don't really see how preferring a woman who is closer to an average weight is shallow, but I guess you think it is.

It's your personal taste and that's fine. We all have one. But you're missing the point. The point is that you're having sex with this woman who, it sounds like, has been extremely nice towards you but all the time you're thinking about how she's just a temporary thing because she's overweight. You know it's a bad way to treat somebody because you said yourself it would be insulting to tell her. Just because you keep it to yourself, doesn't make it alright.

You admit you're being a hypocrite, and that you're being selfish, but you seem okay with that??

It's funny. I'd far rather a guy blew me off with a load of excuses about being busy, than hooked up with me just to use me as practice without actually telling me

 

[OceanMist]

Well, surely that proves to you that what you're doing is insulting too, no?



She probably won't find this out, no. But that's not really the point here. It's a classic case of talking behind somebody's back. What you're doing is disrespectful and I'm very surprised that you seem to think it's okay. You should have more courtesy and respect for your sexual partners.



It's your personal taste and that's fine. We all have one. But you're missing the point. The point is that you're having sex with this woman who, it sounds like, has been extremely nice towards you but all the time you're thinking about how she's just a temporary thing because she's overweight. You know it's a bad way to treat somebody because you said yourself it would be insulting to tell her. Just because you keep it to yourself, doesn't make it alright.

You admit you're being a hypocrite, and that you're being selfish, but you seem okay with that??

It's funny. I'd far rather a guy blew me off with a load of excuses about being busy, than hooked up with me just to use me as practice without actually telling me

A lot of what you say could easily be a double standard.

Look at it this way, how much do you really know about this girl? Not that much. For all you and I know, she could be doing the same type of thing. She could be using me in some kind of way. She could be talking behind my back and insulting me behind my back.

How do you know there aren't ways she's being selfish? It's possible she's just using me as a guy to date for a temporary basis too because she doesn't like something about me.

Just because you'd prefer a guy to tell it how it is or lie about being busy, doesn't mean that's what all women want.

 

[twiggle]

No, I don't know anything about this girl, but in saying that she might be doing the same thing that you're doing, it seems you're just trying to shift responsibility. Even if she is doing it - it doesn't make it okay. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I pretty much guarantee that you still wouldn't like it if you found out she, or any other girls you were interested in, were doing the same thing to you. You've even mentioned earlier in this thread about how annoyed you were when women have messed you around and not been honest with you. You said how it's unfair, because you're supposedly a 'nice guy'. This is why it's hard to understand how you're so okay with doing it to them.

My opinion may not mean much, I get that. But I'm not the only one with this opinion, as other responses on the thread prove.
If things end with this woman, and you move on to somebody else who treats you in the same way, or who messes around with you and isn't clear about her intentions... you won't find much sympathy here anymore.

I won't say anymore on this matter because tbh, I don't think it's going to make a difference to what you think. I wish you the best of luck OceanMist.

 

[Felgen]

I know, I would love to be thought of as "practice."

It's easy for you to say if you're not in his shoes. Inexperience in men is heavily stigmatized thanks to popular culture; so it's a choice many 20-something inexperienced men are forced to make. Being rejected after sex still beats the "let's just be friends (while I make you my emotional tampon)" or "there's just not any chemistry" crap. He doesn't owe a girl anything just because the girl agrees to have sex with him; women like sex as much as men do.

 

[OceanMist]

No, I don't know anything about this girl, but in saying that she might be doing the same thing that you're doing, it seems you're just trying to shift responsibility. Even if she is doing it - it doesn't make it okay. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Then once again, I disagree with you. If she's doing the same thing I'm doing, then what I'm doing is justified. If someone cheats on their partner, the partner that gets cheated on has the right to cheat on the partner who cheated.

I pretty much guarantee that you still wouldn't like it if you found out she, or any other girls you were interested in, were doing the same thing to you.

The problem here is you and many others in this thread seem to think I'm doing something worse than I really am. It's not like I'm just using her. We are sincerely friends and we both like eachother.

My statement about her being a stepping stone for a better looking woman got thrown out of proportion because it sounds worse than it really is. People saw that statement and immediately thought that I don't care about the girl at all, which just isn't true.

I like talking to her and like doing stuff with her in bed. The only thing I don't like is the weight thing and I know that because of that, we won't be able to have a relationship that lasts like 3 years or more.

I think the problem here is just different views between people like you and I. You seem to think by going on dates and having sex with someone that that makes the person obligated to owe them certain stuff that I don't feel like I owe them.

Just so you know, I don't really care if she's doing what I'm doing. If she's using me for social and sexual experience then I'm okay with that. I think it's alright because we both like eachother and respect eachother.

You've even mentioned earlier in this thread about how annoyed you were when women have messed you around and not been honest with you. You said how it's unfair, because you're supposedly a 'nice guy'. This is why it's hard to understand how you're so okay with doing it to them.

And it was after I got rejected and lied to so much that I started changing my perspective of what dating is. I started realizing that many people are shady, especially in the beginning of dating someone, heck, many people serial date and even share partners which is something I'm not even doing.

I guess I've kind of adjusted to the game. Apparently being fair and nice wasn't getting me anywhere because I kept getting rejected so I've now decided to loosen up a bit and break a few rules. I mean, all those women did that to me, so why can't I bend the rules a bit?

My opinion may not mean much, I get that. But I'm not the only one with this opinion, as other responses on the thread prove.
If things end with this woman, and you move on to somebody else who treats you in the same way, or who messes around with you and isn't clear about her intentions... you won't find much sympathy here anymore.

I try to respect everyone's opinion on here. You have the right to your opinion as much as anyone else and I appreciate that you are willing to speak your mind.

You are right that if things go badly for me at all with any women, then nobody will care much anymore in these threads, or they may even insult me.

I guess that will happen. I don't really know what to tell you. I didn't intend on making so many of you mad and I actually thought that I would receive more encouragement for my positive experiences with this woman.

This seems to happen to me a lot in these threads. It's weird because I'm really not a bad guy. I think I've just altered my ways a bit because not too long ago my strategy of just trying to be nice all the time wasn't working.

The way I see it, I had the opportunity to get experience socially and sexually with a woman and I took advantage of that. Heck, her feelings may have been hurt even more if I showed up to her house and looked at her appearance and said, "Sorry, I'm busy."

It just seems that I should have chose my words more carefully earlier on in this thread when I spoke about this woman. The word, use, should never have been used. It sucks because that word can mean so many things. I do believe that everyone uses people in a certain way.

Eh, I'm rambling on. Anyway, I just think that I differ in opinion with a lot of people on this subject, and it has caused a little debate. I hope I didn't hurt anyone.

 

[OceanMist]

It's easy for you to say if you're not in his shoes. Inexperience in men is heavily stigmatized thanks to popular culture; so it's a choice many 20-something inexperienced men are forced to make. Being rejected after sex still beats the "let's just be friends (while I make you my emotional tampon)" or "there's just not any chemistry" crap. He doesn't owe a girl anything just because the girl agrees to have sex with him; women like sex as much as men do.

This is so right.

 

[twiggle]

Ok OceanMist, I've said all I can say on the matter. I think it's best that we just agree to disagree.

I only want to say this, as a general thing:

I guess I've kind of adjusted to the game. Apparently being fair and nice wasn't getting me anywhere because I kept getting rejected so I've now decided to loosen up a bit and break a few rules. I mean, all those women did that to me, so why can't I bend the rules a bit?

I think a lot of other people in the world would share this opinion, but see, it's because of this that we do have so many people in the world who use people. So many men who use women. So many women who use men, or as Sial put it earlier, a lack of sincerity.

People have become so worried by their lack of sexual experience that they abandon their morals to fit in and then what happens? The problem just gets bigger, and even becomes a 'social norm' of sorts.

If only more people could stick to their values, maybe we wouldn't have this. Maybe then, inexperience wouldn't be stigmatised, as Felgen says.

It's a vicious circle, and it's a shame. That's just my thoughts on it. I'm really done now.

 

[Pookah]

It's easy for you to say if you're not in his shoes. Inexperience in men is heavily stigmatized thanks to popular culture; so it's a choice many 20-something inexperienced men are forced to make. Being rejected after sex still beats the "let's just be friends (while I make you my emotional tampon)" or "there's just not any chemistry" crap. He doesn't owe a girl anything just because the girl agrees to have sex with him; women like sex as much as men do.

I have dated much less than he has. I don't continue to go out with someone after it is clear we're not compatible either. I'm not looking for casual things though and he didn't make it clear she understood that with his first posts. The things he has said that she says about him don't sound like a girl in a casual relationship either.

It is dishonest to think disparaging things about someone and to use them knowingly without making those things perfectly clear to them. Its not right to treat someone as inferior and not let them in on the disparity between you. Not fair or equal at all. This is like having a friend you use for transportation who you wouldn't be friends with otherwise. That is wrong too.

 

[Felgen]

I have dated much less than he has. I don't continue to go out with someone after it is clear we're not compatible either. I'm not looking for casual things though and he didn't make it clear she understood that with his first posts. The things he has said that she says about him don't sound like a girl in a casual relationship either.

It is dishonest to think disparaging things about someone and to use them knowingly without making those things perfectly clear to them. Its not right to treat someone as inferior and not let them in on the disparity between you. Not fair or equal at all. This is like having a friend you use for transportation who you wouldn't be friends with otherwise. That is wrong too.

You're missing my point. He's giving her the same that she gives him: Sex. If I give that friend you mentioned transport in return, then I'm not using him. Friends with benefits is a mutually beneficial situation where both parts get as much as they give in return.