Confidence

[NathanielWingatePeaslee]

exactly, my friend! - Social Anxiety is a learned behavior

this is important

what is learned can also be un-learned

I'm not entirely convinced this is always the case, either.

I'm not really proposing anything, Pips. Seems likely it's a combination of genetics and environment, like most things.

I've had social anxiety ever since I realized I was supposed to socialize with the other kids. As a very small child it never occurred to me to do so. They were loud, chaotic aliens to me. Being expected to interact was pressure I never wanted. What social skills I have I've put ridiculous amounts of work and intentional study of humans into.

 

[userremoved]

I'm not entirely convinced this is always the case, either.

I'm not really proposing anything, Pips. Seems likely it's a combination of genetics and environment, like most things.

I've had social anxiety ever since I realized I was supposed to socialize with the other kids. As a very small child it never occurred to me to do so. They were loud, chaotic aliens to me. Being expected to interact was pressure I never wanted. What social skills I have I've put ridiculous amounts of work and intentional study of humans into.

That makes since considering my history too. My dad is shy and I came out acting just like him. My first week of Kindergarten all I did was sit at the table and cried because I was terrified of the other kids. Although I probably would have gotten over all that had they not started teasing me. It's at that point it went from shyness to outright anxiety.

 

[Confuseddd]

confidence? no way.. On a scale from 1 - 10 im around 3... maybe 2 and a half heh..
Im always thinking im not good enough, I guess im lucky I have other traits that push me or I'd be an even bigger mess
I don't wanna imagine that. (scary)

 

[JamesSmith]

As far as lack of confidence goes for people with SAD, I do actually understand why many of us have lack of confidence. Take my situation for instance, I'm unemployed, have no college degree, have no friends anymore, and struggle to connect with human beings, even people that I know well, and hang out by myself all day. It's not weird to be unconfident in my situation. Let's face it, many women don't want to go out with a shy bum who has no friends and shows no signs of going anywhere in life. If someone asked me what I want to do with my life, I'd say I don't know, because I really don't know. These are devastating qualities to have. I don't blame myself for thinking I'm not worth it for many women, because I'm not worth it right now. And I believe others on this site are in a similar situation as me. I think anyone would have lack of confidence in our situation.

 

[philly2bits]

As far as lack of confidence goes for people with SAD, I do actually understand why many of us have lack of confidence. Take my situation for instance, I'm unemployed, have no college degree, have no friends anymore, and struggle to connect with human beings, even people that I know well, and hang out by myself all day. It's not weird to be unconfident in my situation. Let's face it, many women don't want to go out with a shy bum who has no friends and shows no signs of going anywhere in life. If someone asked me what I want to do with my life, I'd say I don't know, because I really don't know. These are devastating qualities to have. I don't blame myself for thinking I'm not worth it for many women, because I'm not worth it right now. And I believe others on this site are in a similar situation as me. I think anyone would have lack of confidence in our situation.

Aren't you confusing confidence with self-esteem? Although they may have a direct impact on each other they are not the same thing.

 

[JamesSmith]

Aren't you confusing confidence with self-esteem? Although they may have a direct impact on each other they are not the same thing.

Idk, maybe I am. I do know that you need to have self-esteem before having confidence. These seem like similar traits.

 

[coyote]

As far as lack of confidence goes for people with SAD, I do actually understand why many of us have lack of confidence. Take my situation for instance, I'm unemployed, have no college degree, have no friends anymore, and struggle to connect with human beings, even people that I know well, and hang out by myself all day. It's not weird to be unconfident in my situation. Let's face it, many women don't want to go out with a shy bum who has no friends and shows no signs of going anywhere in life. If someone asked me what I want to do with my life, I'd say I don't know, because I really don't know. These are devastating qualities to have. I don't blame myself for thinking I'm not worth it for many women, because I'm not worth it right now. And I believe others on this site are in a similar situation as me. I think anyone would have lack of confidence in our situation.

maybe you your lack of self-esteem came before your current situation, and rather than it being a result of your circumstance, your circumstances are a result of your self-esteem

rather than defining your self-worth by what you lack in life, you could work on convincing yourself that you are perfectly acceptable the way you are

as you said - with self-esteem comes confidence

once you find yourself acceptable - and you like yourself, and become confident in yourself - the job, degree, friends, human connection, and women might follow

if something isn't working the way you've been doing it, try going about it from the opposite direction

 

[Kiwong]

It's more important to make friends and become socially confident with everyone, then you get to know people better.

I do agree with this. It's the baby steps towards building better relationships with people that can make a difference for the social anxiety sufferer.

 

[JamesSmith]

I do agree with this. It's the baby steps towards building better relationships with people that can make a difference for the social anxiety sufferer.

Thank you! I'm so glad someone agreed with me on this subject. If love happens, it should happen after you've made friends, not when you are trying to hunt down the best mate.

 

[Feathers]

Since confidence is such a desirable trait and all that, my question is this: how does one acquire it?

by accomplishing meaningful things that are important to you
widening your 'area of comfort'
doing constructive things even if you fear'em...

seeing the good things you've done and good characteristics you have - might wanna make a list

(sometimes easier said than done)

Baby steps, yup!

Confidence is for me 'confidence in specific situations' - new situation, and it can get scary again.. So getting to know people, locations, etc can all help...
For example, after you do some things well, you can kinda get the confidence to do similar things well..

My confidence goes from -130 to +10, depending on how I feel, and what I'm doing, and how successful I am in things I find important..
Right now, maybe -120, because I don't know how to do something.. but even less than 24 hours ago it was +10 cause I managed to do something I feared and it went well..

For a significant other, it's important that he doesn't have too much confidence (yup, can be annoying) - if it gets to arrogance stage or not understanding other people - no thanks! but if he'll never talk to me, than it's probably a no go too, just because of the logistics.. how will I ever know he likes me? or if I'd have to comfort him all the time, I don't see that doable long-term either (sometimes it's acceptable, as long as it's mutual, it can be okay - if it's 'give'n'take')...

JamesSmith, when I was at uni, a classmate's man was unemployed and not much-looking, but she was very much in love with him, and a gorgeous girl! quite some girls dated guys who didn't have a degree and weren't studying.. I think he cooked well though

There are things you can work on - your physical fitness & energy, etc.

 

[JamesSmith]

maybe you your lack of self-esteem came before your current situation, and rather than it being a result of your circumstance, your circumstances are a result of your self-esteem

rather than defining your self-worth by what you lack in life, you could work on convincing yourself that you are perfectly acceptable the way you are

as you said - with self-esteem comes confidence

once you find yourself acceptable - and you like yourself, and become confident in yourself - the job, degree, friends, human connection, and women might follow

if something isn't working the way you've been doing it, try going about it from the opposite direction

Honestly, do you think I'm acceptable the way I am? At where I am now, I couldn't even pay rent at an apartment. So how would that work? The girlfriend would have to pay full rent? I would never have say over anything in that relationship. Then, I have no friends. Most women think that's weird and shady. Even men would think that was weird if a woman has that situation. It's not acceptable that I don't communicate with anyone in real life and have no job. I'm sorry, I refuse to be okay with that.

As for my self-esteem, believe it or not, my self-esteem ain't bad. I'm a great guy once u get to know me. I care about other people's feelings and believe in respecting other people's wants. I'm a hard-worker when i do work. I am a dependable guy, you can count on me being on time when you need me. I'm not bad-looking, either. I'm athletic. I'm a good friend. My self-esteem is not low. I just recognize that I don't have necessary boyfriend/husband qualities.

 

[coyote]

^a person is a person before all the accoutrements are added

how do stand naked before God?

does any of the rest of that other stuff define you as a person?

[edit] - just read the second paragraph you posted - I'm confused

your thoughts seem contradictory

I'm not trying to pick on you - just exploring the whole thing

trying to learn something myself

 

[JamesSmith]

^a person is a person before all the accoutrements are added

how do stand naked before God?

does any of the rest of that other stuff define you as a person?

Yes, it does define me as a person. The two most important things in life are connecting with other people in real life and having a steady job so you can have your own life and have money. I'm not standing naked before God right now, I'm on His earth and failing in His world. I have many good qualities, but am missing some very important qualities.

How would I define myself as a person? I'd say I'm a great, respectful, dependable, semi-attractive, athletic, Socially Anxious Disordered, friendless bum.

 

[Damaged]

I would want confidence in a person but only when there with me, thats all matters as long as they can open up to me and there not shy further into the relationship then thats all i need, i don't care if there shy with other people.

Me, im pretty confident with people i know well thats what i get called tbh but when im out cos of all the panic attacks its hard to act confident unless drunk.

 

[Feathers]

Random thoughts:

Since natural selection is natures way of favoring certain characteristics and making individuals with those characteristics more likely to reproduce, do you guys think that this is nature's way of weeding us out? Since confidence and social skills are so attractive to the opposite sex? Now this isn't science but I'm just pondering. What do you guys think?

Disclaimer- This has nothing to do with the men vs women debate, seeing as this can apply to both sexes anyways.

Interesting question. I have sometimes wondered about this too...
Did any of you read about HSP - highly sensitive person?
Elaine Aron wrote a book about it - she says that it's important that some people are more sensitive/perceptive to the environment - kinda like 'canary in mines' (they brought a bird to signify if there was any dangerous gas or such) actually helpful for survival of humankind..

A lot of people with SA are also HSP. Just sayin.

Also imagine a society of loud arrogant people (kinda like Nietsche's 'uebermensch'?) Oh wait, we had something like that once (nazi Germany) and it didn't go well..

Being caring and perceptive and thoughtful are GOOD traits...

A lot of women may get intially attracted to 'loud jerks' and may marry men who are kind and thoughtful..

 

[coyote]

Yes, it does define me as a person. The two most important things in life are connecting with other people in real life and having a steady job so you can have your own life and have money. I'm not standing naked before God right now, I'm on His earth and failing in His world. I have many good qualities, but am missing some very important qualities.

How would I define myself as a person? I'd say I'm a great, respectful, dependable, semi-attractive, athletic, Socially Anxious Disordered, friendless bum.

try to focus on the good stuff

and forget about the bad stuff

 

[JamesSmith]

try to focus on the good stuff

and forget about the bad stuff

But how do I fix my faults if I never think about them or recognize them? I don't want to go the rest of my life with no friends and no job.

 

[NathanielWingatePeaslee]

by accomplishing meaningful things that are important to you
widening your 'area of comfort'
doing constructive things even if you fear'em...

seeing the good things you've done and good characteristics you have - might wanna make a list

(sometimes easier said than done)

Baby steps, yup!

I've actually done all those things apart from the list. I dunno, maybe I do have more confidence than I used to. Maybe it's just hard to tell because it went from 0 to a small positive number.

And, uh...Nietzsche's concept of the superman had nothing to do with being loud and arrogant. The Hitler just picked out a few bits than he liked and ran with it. Nietzsche himself was critical of both antisemitism and German nationalism.

 

[coyote]

But how do I fix my faults if I never think about them or recognize them? I don't want to go the rest of my life with no friends and no job.

my feeling is that the anxiety comes from the negative thoughts we have about ourselves

i would guess that the lack of friends and job are tied into your anxiety as well as the negative thoughts in general

if we free ourselves from the negative self-defeating thoughts, we can go on about our life in a a positive manner - and positive things will happen

so instead of trying to "fix the problem" - concentrate on the good stuff, and let the problem fix itself

 

[Feathers]

A confident man talks to as many people as possible, male and female. I think the best to way to get a woman is to talk to both sexes without the intentions of sexual relations with the opposite sex. I see some people in here think you should "hunt" for women, I'm not really a believer in that anymore. When you "hunt" for women you are obviously just looking to get laid. It's more important to make friends and become socially confident with everyone, then you get to know people better.
Confidence isn't about who "hunts" more, it's about who is the best "people" person. Too many people are concerned with getting laid instead of making friends and improving social skills. This is a big reason why society makes me so mad: sex dominates many people's minds. We are human beings, not wild animals. There is a time for sex when you really get to know someone and love them. You shouldn't be constantly searching like a wild animal for a mate, you should be searching for friends, and then, if sex happens later when you love someone after you get to know them beginning as a friend, then so be it.

I really like this. Well written. It's not so easily done, imo, though.. How do you do it? Some people can misunderstand, or you can be misunderstood.. Or sometimes there is attraction, or isn't.. It can get in the way, ha ha..

I really respect you for not dating while unemployed, I think it shows character. The trouble with this sort of thinking is only if the crisis/unemployment persists, and you find yourself 'out of your prime' years for relationships.. maybe an attractive woman would even motivate you to start looking for a job/career/biz more with energy?
many people who had serious relationships got jobs quickly, and weren't too fussy about them...

I know a couple, where the girl sometimes worked and paid the rent, sometimes he did, sometimes they both did.. They've been happily together for quite many years now.. I don't know how 'smart' it was of her to marry someone like that, he's an interesting cool guy otherwise.. (& he never finished college either, she didn't manage to finish uni either.. they both switched careers tho, self-taught in many things..)

The question is are you at least working on improvement of your employment/career/biz situation? (since it is important to you) 'small steps'!

Earth went from 1 billion people to 6 billion people. 10 billion people are projected in not-so-far future. What will all those new 4 billion people be doing? New jobs/careers/ways of living will have to be invented!! And maybe 4-hour workday (for everyone) isn't such an odd idea after all?? (I quite like it! ) And more time to pursue hobbies/volunteer or non-profit projects!!

It's important to re-think Lifestyles - the world is not anymore what our ancestors/fathers thought it to be... (!)