Yes - you make some excellent points. I have highlighted what I think in particular is quite interesting and valid. Although not quite related to the discussion I do find other peoples interpretations of you to be quite an interesting topic in its own right - which I think is the crux of a LOT of about what life is actually about. In fact I tried to explain this point somewhat in a thread I made quite some time ago which was received with overwhelming resistance.
This is something I wrote in my journal on here a couple of months back:
If you don't say much, there'll be somebody out there cursing you for not saying enough.
If you're too loud, there'll be somebody out there cursing you for not listening enough.
If you do something nice for somebody, there'll be somebody out there thinking you did it for reward.
If you refuse to do something nice for somebody, there'll be somebody out there thinking you didn't do so because you're rude.
If you look pretty, there'll be somebody out there hating on you for your looks.
If you don't look pretty, there'll be somebody out there hating on you for your looks.
If you are weak in confidence, there'll be somebody out there yelling at you for not having a backbone.
If you have more confidence than a fly, there'll be somebody out there thinking you're arrogant.
If you enjoy popular activities there'll be somebody out there thinking you lack imagination.
If you don't enjoy popular activities there'll be somebody out there thinking you're an outcast.
If you're right, there'll be somebody out there thinking you're a smart-ass.
If you're wrong, there'll be somebody out there thinking you're an idiot.
If you're popular, there'll be somebody there thinking you must be fake.
If you're not popular, there'll be somebody out there thinking you must just be strange.
If you cry, there'll be somebody out there thinking you're doing it for attention.
If you don't cry, there'll be somebody out there thinking you don't care.
Trying to please everybody else - or, perhaps more pertinently -
trying not to annoy anybody else - is a losing game. There's always going to be people who like the things you say and do, and there are always going to be people who don't.
In the context of this discussion, if you're a 'nice guy' then yes there will be people who cotton on to the perhaps more negative connotations of that term and perhaps avoid a relationship with you. But likewise, there will be plenty of others who find you more attractive
because you're a nice guy.
I think what worries a lot of guys, including myself, is that being amiable, easy going and pleasant simply is either boring or is misunderstood as being a pushover or a doormat - or as being the "not so nice nice guy" ultimately though, yes you are quite right - it is up to the person who is interpreting and judging what kind of person THEY think you are - nice or not.
When you look at the opposites of those descriptors -
unfriendly, irritable and unkind
, those aren't the kind of values that many women would want in a partner. In fact, those are the kind of reasons listed when women dump their partners. I acknowledge that a lot of women do seem to go for what you might call 'jerkish' men and I'm no more aware of why this is than you are. My best-friend is in a relationship with a classic jerk - who she knows is a jerk - but I think it's nothing else besides
fear that is preventing her from dumping him. In this scenario, the jerk may have a girlfriend, but none of her friends like him and the relationship is hardly secure.
That article Mikey posted made me quite angry as it only seemed to describe the 'not so nice nice guys' and seemed to completely avoid the fact that there are many men out there who are nice without being manipulative or any of the other things mentioned here. Nice guys do exist in exactly the same way that nice friends, nice relatives, nice teachers, nice colleagues and nice people on the train exist. It's not always about manipulation or insecurity.
However everyone has an idea of themselves of how they wish to be seen to others, and there is a conflict when that idea is misinterpreted by other people - There are other elements and conditions which continually perpetuate the nice guy argument though.
It is frustrating, but misinterpretations are impossible to avoid. The best bet is to just be yourself and wait for somebody who's not going to disregard you straight away just because she's read too many stupid articles online like the one above.
