Nice guys finish last...

[THeCARS1979]

I ve always thought about this and yeah its not good to be nice at all. Theyll walk all over you.

 

[SM1010]

The "nice" part has nothing to do with guys finishing last.

It's just that passiveness, neediness, and being a pushover are often misinterpreted as being nice.

Example:

Yes I've been labeled as a nice guy, and yes it has ruined my chances with women. I was always friendly and respectful to them, but I wasn't labeled nice until I was too passive to make a move when I needed to. For instance, sleeping over the first time but not making any type of sexual advance. If they wanted you to make that advance and you didn't, it will turn them off and you'll be labeled a "nice guy" because you were too passive to make a move. That's what has happened to me.

 

[MoonBoom]

Nice guys do finish last. But it's not about how nice you are. It's about how you go about getting what you want. Most of us may feel this way because we can't get what we desire, as we see others do so. Maybe you feel the bad guy wins. But the truth is everyone and no one wins. It's not cut and dry. In a world where politics religion and social status rule the game, you have to learn the game.
When people feel that "nice guys finish last" it's usually because they themselves cannot live in the world around them. So in essence, it's not about being nice. It's about understanding the rules of the game.

I go to the fox and coyote story mentioned above. That holds a truth, however, as the fox, I think most of us feel we've tried to go ask for that grape and have failed. It's not just about watching and waiting and feeling resent towards others. It's feeling you've tried and tried and always fail. I get that.

But there's a give and take situation. There's a you are beautiful no matter what part, and an understanding of society part. You will always be yourself that people love whether you see it or not, but for you to get ahead and do what you know you are capable of, plain and simple, you have to believe in yourself and never let others lead you or get you down.

People will live in the social thanks to language, gossip, and history. It's your part to know you are worth something more. See that people will be people, and raise yourself higher, because you ARE higher. Respect the game, but love yourself.

 

[Felgen]

Certain people you should be nice to--others not. Nobody will walk all over you just because you help out a friend in need or give your seat to an old woman at the bus.

People who just take your kindness for granted (eg. someone who's just using you as their emotional tampon), you shouldn't be that nice to, though.

 

[doubleM]

i went into the store a lot of times, but i didnt come out with any grapes.

 

[OceanMist]

I think people have confused kindness with shyness.

 

[guy29]

Nice guys don't finish last, guys who shy away from saying what they really want to say to a girl finish last, some may confuse this with niceness.

 

[doubleM]

ive been reading all these sites about nice guy crap. they all seem to touch on the same things. generalizations like nice guys are all insecure. if a man shows any kindness or puts others before himself, then he is weak and insecure.
in real life, to be brutally honest, being in public i am quiet, reserved, and always polite. im rather passive and i always put other people before myself. but i dont do it at the expense of hurting myself. if i really want to tell someone something i just tell them. other than that i keep to myself. if i have conflict with someone i usually try to diffuse the situation. if someone tries to mess with me, ill stand up to them, but never intimidate. thats just what i was raised to believe. a real man takes care of himself without hurting others.
i dont walk around acting overly aggressive, starting ****, or talking a big game. that seems to be what women respect today. at my school i see some of the most arrogant guys i have ever encountered...and they all have a girl with them eating up every dumb thing they say. i just cant act like that.
if i really want to approach a girl ill do it. when you have social anxiety(and you feel like you are about to throw up) that takes real courage. just because im a little uncomfortable around people, that does not make me weak or insecure.

thats why im so irate with women. its like i have to be some thing else and just jump thru all these hoops. and anytime you complain about it, its just your fault cuz youre a "nice guy." what ever you say....

 

[MoonBoom]

 

[SM1010]

ive been reading all these sites about nice guy crap. they all seem to touch on the same things. generalizations like nice guys are all insecure. if a man shows any kindness or puts others before himself, then he is weak and insecure.
in real life, to be brutally honest, being in public i am quiet, reserved, and always polite. im rather passive and i always put other people before myself. but i dont do it at the expense of hurting myself. if i really want to tell someone something i just tell them. other than that i keep to myself. if i have conflict with someone i usually try to diffuse the situation. if someone tries to mess with me, ill stand up to them, but never intimidate. thats just what i was raised to believe. a real man takes care of himself without hurting others.
i dont walk around acting overly aggressive, starting ****, or talking a big game. that seems to be what women respect today. at my school i see some of the most arrogant guys i have ever encountered...and they all have a girl with them eating up every dumb thing they say. i just cant act like that.
if i really want to approach a girl ill do it. when you have social anxiety(and you feel like you are about to throw up) that takes real courage. just because im a little uncomfortable around people, that does not make me weak or insecure.

thats why im so irate with women. its like i have to be some thing else and just jump thru all these hoops. and anytime you complain about it, its just your fault cuz youre a "nice guy." what ever you say....

I don't agree at all. You don't have to be anyone else, nor do you have to be a jerk to get women.

Be yourself. Be generous, polite, and respect other people. You certainly don't have to change any of that. Here's the key in what you wrote above:

im rather passive

Most women are turned off by passiveness. You just have to find a way to be assertive around women, that does not mean you can't be nice too. It's the passive part that turns them off, not the nice part.

Examples of being assertive:

- Don't always let her make the decisions, for example on a date. Don't ask her what she wants to do, just take her somewhere you find interesting. This shows her you're not always going to be desperate for her approval.

- Don't wuss out when it comes to making moves (such as a kiss or even a sexual advance). If they're giving you all the signals and putting themselves out there, they're going to be turned off if you don't make a move and you'll be labeled as the nice guy (it's happened to me).

 

[MikeyC]

Be yourself.

This is really all anyone can do. I'm certainly not going to change my personality to suit someone else. They should like you for who you are and vice versa.

- Don't wuss out when it comes to making moves (such as a kiss or even a sexual advance). If they're giving you all the signals and putting themselves out there, they're going to be turned off if you don't make a move and you'll be labeled as the nice guy (it's happened to me).

This is a lot easier said than done, at least for me, but you are definitely correct. ::

 

[Kiwong]

When it comes to the dating game I can see a whole heap of reasons that women might have every right not to want to form a relationship with me. I don't think I have the confidence level that for a minute that I believe that I am so special that I deserve to be with a lady in an intimate relationship. If someone felt that way about me I'd be shocked to be honest.

 

[SM1010]

This is a lot easier said than done, at least for me, but you are definitely correct.

It's extremely hard. I'm not that experienced sexually, or even with kissing for that matter. That's the point where I usually let my fear win, because I'm too scared to go in for that kiss or further than that.

I've literally had women want to sleep over with me (after a party or date or w/e), and I still didn't make a move when they were in my bed. Multiple times the girl straight up got frustrated and just started to make out with me, I didn't initiate it at all. Even after they started to make out with me I was still too nervous to make any further sexual advance so it didn't go any further than that. We just passed out in my bed because I was too nervous to go any further.

That's when I'm labeled as a nice guy and lose any chance I had with the girl.

There are extremely aggressive women who are more than happy to do all the initiating but they're pretty rare. In most cases it's up to the guy. So it's something we have to learn to do despite our fear.

 

[MikeyC]

It's extremely hard. I'm not that experienced sexually, or even with kissing for that matter. That's the point where I usually let my fear win, because I'm too scared to go in for that kiss or further than that.

I've literally had women want to sleep over with me (after a party or date or w/e), and I still didn't make a move when they were in my bed. Multiple times the girl straight up got frustrated and just started to make out with me, I didn't initiate it at all. Even after they started to make out with me I was still too nervous to make any further sexual advance so it didn't go any further than that. We just passed out in my bed because I was too nervous to go any further.

That's when I'm labeled as a nice guy and lose any chance I had with the girl.

There are extremely aggressive women who are more than happy to do all the initiating but they're pretty rare. In most cases it's up to the guy. So it's something we have to learn to do despite our fear.

Wow, that...sounds like me. Like you, I've literally been in a girl's bed and done nothing because of anxiety from sex. There are times where I've initiated kissing but once it gets further than that I freak out.

You're right - it's something we need to conquer. I know girls are interested in me so I'd like to be able to initiate anything with them. Hopefully you can work through your anxieties and have some fun intimacy soon, mate!

 

[AGR]

Oh this thread is back on what a coincidence I was just thinking about it today when I was thinking about some situations.....

Once upon a time there was a fox. This fox desperately wanted some grapes, and every day he would go and sit outside the grocery store, looking longingly through the window at the sweet, juicy grapes on display in the produce section. He hoped that by sitting there nicely and politely, one of the store workers might spot him and bring him some grapes, but each day he wandered back to his foxhole hungry and disappointed.

One day, while the fox was sitting there in his usual spot, a coyote walked up to the store. He spotted the fox looking through the window, and followed his gaze to the bunches of grapes.

"Mmmm," thought the coyote "those do look rather good.", so he walked into the store. Once inside he found a store worker who was busily arranging her melon display, and coughed politely. The young woman turned around.

"My goodness," said the coyote "those are some impressive melons you have there." He winked. The woman raised an eyebrow in an "O RLY?" kind of way.

"Say," continued the coyote "I noticed you have quite a display of grapes there. You seem to have an awful lot of them. I don't suppose you could spare just a few for a hungry coyote?"

The woman looked at the grapes, and then back at the coyote. She considered his request for a moment, before reaching out and breaking off a small bunch of grapes.

"I suppose a talking coyote is worth a few grapes," she said, handing them to him. "Now shoo out of my store!".

The coyote took the grapes, flashed the woman a parting smile, and trotted out of the store. On his way out he passed the fox, who had seen everything that had just happened through the window, and was now sitting there with his mouth wide open in shock. The coyote was still a little puzzled as to why the fox was just sitting there, but he figured it must just be some weird fox-thing, and headed off home to enjoy his grapes.

The fox watched the coyote disappear down the street. "Stupid jerk coyotes!" he muttered to himself. "They always get whatever they want. Life's so easy for them. Everyone hates foxes!". Once the coyote was out of sight, he turned back to the window and continued gazing at the grapes.

The End.

Thats true I agree,if if the coyote is married,is a know cheater,treats his "girlfriends" and people generally really bad,doesnt really care about anyone or anything,gets in fights all the time,when his "friends" are there to back him up and is generally a bad person,if so,yes I agree.

 

[Remus]

Thats true I agree,if if the coyote is married,is a know cheater,treats his "girlfriends" and people generally really bad,doesnt really care about anyone or anything,gets in fights all the time,when his "friends" are there to back him up and is generally a bad person,if so,yes I agree.

The coyote just flirted, it hardly makes someone satan incarnate.

 

[AGR]

The coyote just flirted, it hardly makes someone satan incarnate.

yes I doubt anyone would find him an ******* just for that,so maybe there are other reasons,I was using some examples that I encountered in my life and was thinking about today.

 

[AGR]

I have a better story:
The coyote is always wanting to eat the road runner,he will do anything to get it, cheat,get into fights,will do bad things to it,everybody knows it,while the dog only wants to become his friend and love it.

suddenly the road runner suffers an aciddent and is unconcious,a person finds it and takes cares of it,the dog says its ok now I will be his friend and take care of it,but then the person gives it to the coyote,who everybody know how he is.

 

[Felgen]

- Don't wuss out when it comes to making moves (such as a kiss or even a sexual advance). If they're giving you all the signals and putting themselves out there, they're going to be turned off if you don't make a move and you'll be labeled as the nice guy (it's happened to me).

A lot of us have problems reading these signs. This is why I've never slept with or kissed an equally introverted girl.