men/women/weight issues-*may be offensive to some* Apology in advance

[thegunners21]

I think shows like King of Queens and the like promote the idea that it's ok for men to be obese-they can even have hot wives...how many shows have large women with GQ looking husbands?......anyone know of any????!!!...I should say that this is only likely IRL if the obese woman is wealthy, but the average poor working woman with a weight problem with a very attractive skinny guy on a show on t.v. no way.
I don't watch t.v. anyways it's total Crap!

How many shows have broke or homeless men with hot women?

 

[MollyBeGood]

How many shows have broke or homeless men with hot women?

now that's entertainment!..actually that sounds like a great reality show.

i guess they have been forcing it on people since the 50's-
kill your t.v.

The Truth About Fat Men and Hot Wives in Sitcoms

http://crasstalk.com/2013/01/full-list-of-tv-shows-with-fat-husbands-and-skinny-wives/

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/television/2005/01/beauty_and_the_beast.html

 

[cowboyup]

This has touched a nerve, I see.
I am liking everyone's different opinions and it is turned out to be quite an educational subject.

No, I am not being sarcastic - this is what I like - an honest, open discussion and others' opinions on the matter.

Thank you :applause:

 

[xDreamseller]

Throwing this in to stir the conversation a little...

If you fell in love with someone and their mental state changed dramatically, would you still stay with them? (I don't mean going insane, I mean changing world views etc)

Maybe it's just my minor autism but I don't see the difference between falling in love with someone for their personality or for their looks. I realize you can't love someone purely based on looks, you obviously have to be best friends with each other and share interests. Kindred spirits and all that, but at least you can improve and change your looks to reflect who you are.

Same thing with being more interested in a guy who is wealthy than one who is less well off. Sure, some people are born with it, but for those who worked hard for it, it should be an added bonus, much the same as someone who worked hard to stay in shape and get those "killer abs".

Gaining 40 pounds is quite a dramatic change and if you put on that much weight, you have become a very different person from what the man firstly fell in love with. It means you've probably changed your diet, your lifestyle and your overall perception of things. (Assuming you weren't already like 250 pounds to start with)

Tl:dr That last paragraph is the main point. Putting on a substantial amount of extra weight signifies more than just added body fat.

*Reading back through all the other posts, VJ made a good point I feel about having kids. Find someone who wants the same things from life as you do. If you want a kid and your partner doesn't, find a new one. If you want to gain 40 pounds and your partner leaves you...you shouldn't want to be with them anyway after that. I realize as much as anyone else that "finding someone else" is more than a simple endeavor...but it's the only alternative to living in regret and unhappiness with someone you don't really love.

 

[MollyBeGood]

Now a days people leave relationships for the smallest reasons because we all have such short attention spans and everything is flashing constantly before our eyes-More, Better, Richer etc...
The place for strong and lasting love in our society is all but a thing of the past. The idea of loving someone warts and all for better or worse-No one does this anymore. You gain weight you loose a job, you develop a different world view, it's "See ya later, Mac!" or "Kick his ass to the Curb!" as Dr. Phil preaches.

The world has gone to sheet. Makes me feel as if real lasting love doesn't really exist anymore. People have become so cold hearted and materialistic.

 

[Hellhound]

The world has gone to sheet. Makes me feel as if real lasting love doesn't really exist anymore. People have become so cold hearted and materialistic.

True love feels like an alien concept now a days, in my opinion.

Most relationships are usually based on looks, sex, money... Personality doesn't seem to be a factor anymore. It only matters wether you are willing to have sex and look "hawt", and other minor shiz.

But maybe that's just my negativity speaking.

 

[thegunners21]

Now a days people leave relationships for the smallest reasons because we all have such short attention spans and everything is flashing constantly before our eyes-More, Better, Richer etc...
The place for strong and lasting love in our society is all but a thing of the past. The idea of loving someone warts and all for better or worse-No one does this anymore. You gain weight you loose a job, you develop a different world view, it's "See ya later, Mac!" or "Kick his ass to the Curb!" as Dr. Phil preaches.

The world has gone to sheet. Makes me feel as if real lasting love doesn't really exist anymore. People have become so cold hearted and materialistic.

The world has always been the same. It's just that information (especially negative) travels much faster and to much more people with internet.

 

[MollyBeGood]

^maybe gunners, that is true w/info traveling faster but people also have disposable ADHD type views of love that goes along with the speedy technology. We are also bombarded with The Kadashian's and Paris Hilton trash culture that makes people idealize things that are totally disgusting about human's today. We are influenced by it as a society and it effects our decisions and how we are in love relationships. It's very, very sad. You have to be vigilant on what you watch and read nowadays, it effects everyone.

 

[MollyBeGood]

True love feels like an alien concept now a days, in my opinion.

Most relationships are usually based on looks, sex, money... Personality doesn't seem to be a factor anymore. It only matters wether you are willing to have sex and look "hawt", and other minor shiz.

But maybe that's just my negativity speaking.

I know does anyone even go on dates anymore? They just sleep w/ each other and move on to the next person. What is the point?

Got me thinking about this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E88RUqyjts
and this one Wow I am on a Judd's kick today haha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR5VviO9aiQ

 

[xDreamseller]

Seems like we all have the same opinions on this topic then. I too hate the way my generation is turning out.

I just wanna find a girl, grab her hand and run off into the sunset to travel the world together. Why does it have to be so hard to find someone else like that... :crying:

 

[nodejesque]

If a man told me that he'd dump me if I got fat, id tell him to kiss my ass.

Women don't need degradation from a man. If you want to loose weight and be healthier... it should be your decision. Not an ultimatum. Pfff. Id rather be alone, fat, and happy... than with someone who is constantly putting me down.

Weight is an issue that is a hot topic due to all the health issues correlated to it.. but everyone has a vice. Show me a person that is perfect in health and emotionally... we all have parts of ourselves that we don't like. However... id like to think that the person that falls in love with me, will love all of my downfalls ans insecurities, as well as my virtues.

Someone who cares about you will motivate you, and work with you... if it is an issue that hinders your person to a point of attention. However, if that person humiliates you by openly judging you and pointing out your flaws, as if you didn't already know them.... then kick his ass to the curb.


Id rather have a man who acknowledges his flaws and doesn't pretend he's perfect, who loves the flaire of my hips.. and the depth of my mind, than an egotistical shallow person... who is content with the superficial facade that easily fades.

 

[Rawz]

The Truth About Fat Men and Hot Wives in Sitcoms

Is that meant to be serious or funny?

 

[Solitudes_Grace]

I apologize if this may be offensive to some; I am repeating only what my SIL and I were discussing.

My SIL and I had a conversation the other day (yes, we do have civil times in the house-whoa!) and she was telling me about a meeting at work she had attended. After the meeting, Some of the teachers were talking about how there is a 'trend' or something going around where men are telling/or rather, demanding, their girlfriend/wife to stay thin - like within a certain weight range. Fluctuation in weight during the month is 'allowed' but if the woman gains over a certain amount, the man will leave her.

SIL was talking to a teacher who brought this subject up and the teacher was saying that her daughter (who is in her late 20's) has a boyfriend and he told her he'd "leave her a**" if she gained 40 lbs or more because he doesn't like fat people. A few pounds here and there is OK as long as the woman does not get 'fat' and the guy looks at this as the woman not taking care of herself - just being a lazy slob.

According to my SIL, other teachers encountered similar things with their daughter or know of someone who this has happened to. One teacher said she overheard a friend of her daughter say that her boyfriend was boasting how he actually had past girlfriends say that he had given them a complex and were afraid to even gain a pound and I guess he was laughing about it.

This is quite disturbing, in my opinion. Like women/girls/teenagers don't have enough eating disorders, now this?

What are your thoughts? Have you ever heard of this before? Even though the women may of legal age, should the parent say something?

Those men are despicable creatures. They don't even deserve to be called human beings. They weren't saying that crap because they were concerned over their partners' health. They said that crap because they were pathetic creatures who wanted to try to control and manipulate their partners. People like that don't deserve to have partners.

To anyone who reads this, if anyone ever tells you that they will leave you if you gain a certain amount of weight, leave them first. Leave them and never look back, because you don't deserve someone like that. Nobody deserves to be with someone like that.

I swear, I am so sick of this culture I live in. I'm sick of this male dominated culture where everyone is forced to sculpt their bodies into this culturally defined ideal of physical beauty in order to receive any sort of social respect. I'm sick of it. This isn't a natural thing. Beauty is culturally defined. Add this culturally mandated idea of physical beauty with a sexist culture, and it's no wonder so many people have eating disorders. This is a cultural problem, and I'm sick of the culture.

And to everyone saying that "Oh, well, they're just concerned with their partners health," I just wanted to say that I have a friend in real life who exercises and eats very healthily, and she has a plus-size body. It's just the way her body is. It's important to be healthy, but it's also important to realize that everyone's body is different. Skinny does not always equal healthy, nor does big always equal unhealthy. The men that the TC was referring to weren't concerned about anyone's health. They were just a$$holes.

 

[Flanscho]

I swear, I am so sick of this culture I live in. I'm sick of this male dominated culture where everyone is forced to sculpt their bodies into this culturally defined ideal of physical beauty in order to receive any sort of social respect. I'm sick of it.

So you say that women would never do that? Expecting their partner to look in a certain way?

 

[rosewood]

people change over time. when you meet for the first time is different from when you are married for the first time, which is different to when the first child is born. you as a person will be a brand new being in these instances because we all change over time, yes you are still you, but you have grown and matured so cannot be the same person you were before.

how many here are talking about a long term relationship?

how many have been with someone from their youth to their 40's or 50's?

sorry, people, but over time you gain weight. it happens naturally unless you continue to work out all the time, or your body metabolism is high naturally.

 

[thegunners21]

So you say that women would never do that? Expecting their partner to look in a certain way?

Forget it, everything will be blamed on "patriarchy" and "disgusting men" like always.

 

[BlueDays]

If a man told me that he'd dump me if I got fat, id tell him to kiss my ass.

Women don't need degradation from a man. If you want to loose weight and be healthier... it should be your decision. Not an ultimatum. Pfff. Id rather be alone, fat, and happy... than with someone who is constantly putting me down.

Weight is an issue that is a hot topic due to all the health issues correlated to it.. but everyone has a vice. Show me a person that is perfect in health and emotionally... we all have parts of ourselves that we don't like. However... id like to think that the person that falls in love with me, will love all of my downfalls ans insecurities, as well as my virtues.

Someone who cares about you will motivate you, and work with you... if it is an issue that hinders your person to a point of attention. However, if that person humiliates you by openly judging you and pointing out your flaws, as if you didn't already know them.... then kick his ass to the curb.


Id rather have a man who acknowledges his flaws and doesn't pretend he's perfect, who loves the flaire of my hips.. and the depth of my mind, than an egotistical shallow person... who is content with the superficial facade that easily fades.

^:bowing:
Exactly!:thumbup:

 

[Lamb]

^ Great post. *grabs a cookie*

 

[thegunners21]

Just about every Judd Apatow movie?

Umm...I can't seem to find anything other than knocked up that has that.

Patriarchy is also what reinforces cultural expectation of men. When people say that "Men suffer from sexism too" in the sense that they feel the pressure to conform, to be "a real man", it isn't women that have created the notion. It's patriarchy, and all of its proponents are the ones responsible for upholding it, whether they be male or female.

I disagree. You're saying that no woman ever has wanted a "real man". No women ever desire the traditional, masculine, macho man? No, no, let's blame that on men too.

Stating that the standards of beauty are patriarchally defined isn't man-hating. It's just fact. Throughout history, male-orientated culture has always expressed what is an acceptable form of beauty and what isn't. This has been subject to trends; at one point, larger women were the aspirational standard. With surging modernity and the rise of the fashion industry, the aspirational standard changed. What was originally perfunctory has spilled over from the culture of fashion into society.

Yea, but doesn't that make sense? That standards of beauty for one sex be defined by the other sex in a society that is straight? (majority).
Again, are you saying women don't have beauty standards for men? (namely six pack abs, and broad shoulders)

Now, add the fact we're moving into a corporatocracy, and it seems only obvious why it makes sense that "thin = beautiful". We're all taught that the basis of our self-esteem is contingent on what others think of us. Capitalist institutions thrive on the fact that we're susceptible to how others see us. We're shown aspirational program that is dominated by young people who all conform to a similar aesthetic appeal. The programming we watch is a clear message: this is how you should look, and if you don't... well, here's a bunch of products in the commercials that will help you! Lose weight! Enhance your bust! Try this anti-aging cream that will peel off layers of your face in order to uncover your natural beauty! If that fails, hide it under layer upon layer of make-up! The irony is that culture also markets the products that make the body deviate from the aspirational standard of beauty: fast food is everywhere, cheap and readily available, cigarettes age the skin, cosmetic products lead to skin problems and all of these contribute into forcing us to buy more.

Agreed.

The solution to this is to eliminate standard definitions of beauty, and to stop reiterating the idea that your self-esteem should be contingent on how you look or how others view you. Nobody, male or female, should feel ugly or conform to an ideal that society projects. We aren't dollies, we shouldn't spend most of our lives trying to look attractive for other people. Beauty should be subjective. I mean, I've had friends admit to me: "I'd date them, but I can't because I'd be too ashamed to be seen in public with them" which is honestly extremely disheartening. Unfortunately, what we find attractive is shaped by society and we view other people through this ideological lens. It's very difficult to separate this from the essence of the self, and thus, we end up saying: "I just don't find (x, y, or z) attractive".

That's like saying we should stop being humans. Humans are shaped partly by genetics and partly by the environment. That's just how it is.

On a side note, fat doesn't equal unhealthy. You can easily be 'fat' in an aesthetic sense whilst still being completely healthy. Obesity is another thing entirely, but still, you can be obese and if you include a vitamin-rich diet and shun toxins from your body, you'll still be healthier than someone who is half your weight that smokes, drinks and is malnourished. I don't accept the argument that being fat is any more disrespectful to the body than being thin and unhealthy. To the people that say "I wouldn't date a fat person because they don't look after their body", I accept this as a reasonable conclusion so long as you do everything to look after your own body, and your assertion isn't marred by the fact that you'd accept someone who smokes, drinks heavily, doesn't drink etc etc.

I agree that being fat doesn't mean unhealthy. The OP doesn't give us a time frame for the weight gain. If the 40 lbs gain would be over a few years, that is understandable. But let's say the 40lbs was over something like 6 months, then that would be concerning and almost always not healthy (unless she's a bodybuilder).

I believe in taking care of myself and my body. If a person can't take care of the one of the only thing that is truly theirs - their body, that shows a lack of commitment and dedication to me.

Also, if your love for one another is based purely on physical attraction, it really isn't going to last. Even if you manage to stay thin and invest in all the cosmetics under the sun, your looks are going to change over time. You're better off without that person.

Physical attraction can help you get noticed in a sea of crowd. Your personality and your ideals and what will help maintain that attraction though. Physical attraction alone will only go so far.

 

[this_portrait]

I was originally going to ignore this topic, but what with seeing it all the time on here and postings about some comments the CEO of Abercrombie + Fitch made recently, I've just been having all these thoughts fester in my head and feel the need to get them out, even if some people might not like them.

First of all, I am not attracted to men who are on the heavier side. There, I said it. Go ahead and torch me. (I'm sort of joking there.) I tend to be drawn more to the skinny guys or at least average weighted guys. I have even gone out on dates with bigger guys, and I still am not attracted to them. I know personality is important, but if you aren't at least SOMEWHAT physically attracted to someone, it means diddly squat (and vice versa).

In terms of long-term relationships and 'letting yourself go,' yes, we all gain AT LEAST a small amount of weight the older we get, and there's nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't hold a slight gain against my partner if I was in a long-term relationship. However, if he were to gain so much that he ended up looking like Billy Halleck pre-Gypsy curse from Thinner, well, you'd bet I would have a problem with that. I do tend to stand by the whole idea of 'if you can't picture yourself kissing someone, then you're not attracted to them.'

Regarding my own weight, I've gone through some fluctuations throughout my life, but I've never been overweight or really even considered 'fat.' As a kid, I was built a little bigger and had a bit of a belly compared to other kids (who I swear were being starved if you ask me). I had a lot of internalized insecurities about that and thought I was the second-fattest kid in school, right after the kids who were clearly obese or overweight. Over time, I shed some of the chub and started feeling better about myself physically, though the pudge in my lower stomach still remained. I've been (mostly) at an average weight for my height ever since.

Needless to say, being at an average, healthy weight (we're talking 130 lbs at 5'7" here) doesn't keep people from sticking their noses where they don't belong. I have relatives (many of whom used to be skinny twigs) who will point out that my stomach is not 100% flat/toned and tell me I need to lose weight. I have old friends who would be considered overweight tell me I'm too skinny and need to eat more.

Personally, I don't think I need to do either; I think I need to get off my lazy, depressed ass and just tone up. Though sometimes, when I feel down in the dumps (like I'm feeling right now), I end up letting comments like that get to me and I feel stuck.

/end vent