is being a male virgin unnattractive?

[Off The Wall]

yeah no its not unattractive.. i honestly don't think anyone cares too much whether your a virgin or not. Like seriously its the most unimportant fact. I think anyways

 

[thor01]

Yeah, I'd hope that your'e right there.
Nice pic btw Off The Wall, Ive never seen the film all the way through, and ive been meaning to get it on DVD recently, but i do have good memories of watching the pretty long advert for it on my old Home Alone video. And Edwards a great character, i can relate to him in a way from what ive seen haha.

 

[Satine]

sickjoke is going by the whole "tribal" or "social status" mentality in which girls just go by what OTHER people tell them and none of what her own self tells her, to make a judgment on the subject of interest (the guy we are talking about).

Seriously.. these are like for the women who want a guy that other girls can be jealous about.. or simply just to appear like someone with social status. Ie choosing the popular guy simply because he's popular regardless of how he really is behind closed doors.

Quite the opposite for me. I go counter to SickJoke's theory. If a guy is surrounded by women then I would suspect either that he's a player (and I find them very selfish people, I don't like it at all) or at least subject to a lot of temptation, which would leave me uneasy.

My partner is able to hold a conversation with his colleagues etc. but doesn't seek them, and friends, out on a regular basis. It was his independance - his ability to survive mostly by himself - that attracted me initially. That was sealed when I saw that he can socialise, but doesn't require it on a sustained, regular basis.

I see what SickJoke means when he says that a man surrounded by women flags the man up as being desirable, but I'm content to find out for myself whether a man is worth it. I like quirks in a man - they're attractive to me.

Funny thing is, that Mike has said that since we got together, girls show him more interest. This happens even when I'm not around, and after discussing it, we worked out that it's because he carries himself with confidence since we got together because he knows he's got a girlfriend. The girlfriend doesn't necessarily need to be there.

So again, this supports SickJoke's earlier suggestion that it's worth faking it 'til you make it!

For women, personality characteristics and social status are their weakness.

It's fascinating stuff really.

While I see what you're getting at SickJoke, I think you're geing a bit to axiomatic in your descriptions of gender roles. I find the above a touch offensive.

 

[SickJoke]

was his independance - his ability to survive mostly by himself - that attracted me initially.

I love how you worded that , because it fits perfectly with an evolutionary psychology concept that I often refer to:

Men seek women for their reproduction value: physical beauty - signs of youth, health, and fertility.

Women seek men for their survival value: certain "alpha male" personality characteristics - mainly social intelligence, willingness to emote, independence, and more.

So again, this supports SickJoke's earlier suggestion that it's worth faking it 'til you make it!

Thanks!

While I see what you're getting at SickJoke, I think you're geing a bit to axiomatic in your descriptions of gender roles. I find the above a touch offensive.

I do have a tendency to skip the whole "sensitivity" thing and just dish out the cold, hard facts. Some may take offense to that

 

[Remus]

yup, read a book on tact sickjoke XD

 

[j_brown2]

A player? Those are the guys who think they are the shit but in reality ain't?

I truly believe in sickjokes theory, I just met one alpha male in my life lol.. my uncle... and even me was attracted. (not gay stuff lol) I just wanted to hang out with him, he was no selfish guy at all, not one who would put people down to make himself look bigger... a true alpha male, girls and guys were around him all the time, he just was like a magnet... to my suprise even when I was once crieing for some reason I thought he is gonna tell me stuff like ah come on don't be a pussy, but he was so down to earth and cool, never saw a guy like that before. He was never negative, didn't brag about stuff coz he didn't need to, he was just the shit an successfull in every way of life, I can see how girls can be attracted to that qualities.

 

[SickJoke]

yup, read a book on tact sickjoke XD

Hahaha

Nah, that'd be a waste of time. I'm more of a scientist. I'll leave the spoon-feeding to the politicians and teachers

 

[SickJoke]

I truly believe in sickjokes theory, I just met one alpha male in my life lol.. my uncle... and even me was attracted. (not gay stuff lol) I just wanted to hang out with him, he was no selfish guy at all, not one who would put people down to make himself look bigger... a true alpha male, girls and guys were around him all the time, he just was like a magnet... to my suprise even when I was once crieing for some reason I thought he is gonna tell me stuff like ah come on don't be a pussy, but he was so down to earth and cool, never saw a guy like that before. He was never negative, didn't brag about stuff coz he didn't need to, he was just the shit an successfull in every way of life

Wow he sounds like an awesome guy. If I were you I'd spend as much time with him as possible - soak up his personality like a sponge We become like the people we surround ourselves with.

 

[Satine]

I love how you worded that , because it fits perfectly with an evolutionary psychology concept that I often refer to:

Men seek women for their reproduction value: physical beauty - signs of youth, health, and fertility.

I agree with that, except for the men looking for youth. What benefit is there to youth in particular?

Women seek men for their survival value: certain "alpha male" personality characteristics - mainly social intelligence, willingness to emote, independence, and more.

I'm not quite sure I buy the alpha male thing. I see what you're getting at vis a vis the man has to have some positive qualities, but that's as far as it goes. I'm not interested in an alpha male, I'm interested in someone able to survive. One does not need to be an alpha to survive.

And it's not the lack of sensitivity in your post that I was offended by, it was the suggestion that women are quite as static as you suggested. I find it as much of an oversimplification to be untrue.

 

[SickJoke]

I agree with that, except for the men looking for youth. What benefit is there to youth in particular?

Younger usually means healthier. Also they'll live longer, which means more time for more kids.

I'm not quite sure I buy the alpha male thing. I see what you're getting at vis a vis the man has to have some positive qualities, but that's as far as it goes. I'm not interested in an alpha male, I'm interested in someone able to survive. One does not need to be an alpha to survive.

The idea of an alpha male probably brings big, tough, gorilla-like qualities to mind. But a contemporary alpha male doesn't need to be rough and tough. In today's society it basically means social intelligence, independence, etc.

And it's not the lack of sensitivity in your post that I was offended by, it was the suggestion that women are quite as static as you suggested. I find it as much of an oversimplification to be untrue.

Only the part about women offended you? How about the part about men being "statically" attracted to physical beauty? The laws of attraction are universal. Of course everyone is unique, but the fundamentals hold true for all of us. Men seek reproduction value, women seek survival value.

 

[j_brown2]

Wow he sounds like an awesome guy. If I were you I'd spend as much time with him as possible - soak up his personality like a sponge We become like the people we surround ourselves with.

He is in Canada now, so we lost touch, yea I think some people on here don't even know what a true alpha male is... If a girl on here would meet one she would be thinking of him still when she sleeps lol... Most girls on here think they are some selfish players.

Everything about him was just fascinating, he was so calm and confident unbelievable, then there were the wannabees like my father who tried to be like him haha,

I truly do not believe a woman could turn down an alpha male like him,
Woman on here got no idea what an alpha male is like. Me as the social phobic would have no problem meeting him coz he was just never negative and just made you feel good the moment you talked to him

 

[Satine]

Younger usually means healthier. Also they'll live longer, which means more time for more kids.

But then, younger also means less experienced at being able to forage, raise offspring, and so on. An older female (say, 25 - 40) is a safer bet, surely.

The idea of an alpha male probably brings big, tough, gorilla-like qualities to mind. But a contemporary alpha male doesn't need to be rough and tough. In today's society it basically means social intelligence, independence, etc.

There's more than one way to be an alpha. I've known thugs nobody would dare answer back to and that suggests alphadom to me. I don't like it one bit, personally.

Only the part about women offended you? How about the part about men being "statically" attracted to physical beauty?

I cannot speak to the men here and wouldn't want to - that would be insulting. I will speak for myself as a woman, and I found your comment to be inaccurate and something of a pigeonhole.

The laws of attraction are universal.

Not in my experience they're not. And if you expand a rule to fit everybody in, it'll become wishy-washy and largely meaningless.

Of course everyone is unique, but the fundamentals hold true for all of us.

Fundamentals that would mostly lack resonance because they'd have to lack so many details.

Men seek reproduction value, women seek survival value.

Are they above any different? In evolutionary terms, one can only reproduce if one survives for long enough. One can only survive beyond the grave if one reproduces.

 

[SickJoke]

But then, younger also means less experienced at being able to forage, raise offspring, and so on. An older female (say, 25 - 40) is a safer bet, surely.

18 seems to be the perfect age, maybe even as young as 16. The porn industry clearly demonstrates which general age men are most attracted to

There's more than one way to be an alpha. I've known thugs nobody would dare answer back to and that suggests alphadom to me. I don't like it one bit, personally.

Those thugs were a poor example of the ideal contemporary alpha male

I cannot speak to the men here and wouldn't want to - that would be insulting. I will speak for myself as a woman, and I found your comment to be inaccurate and something of a pigeonhole.

Well we can agree to disagree, but evolutionary psychology is on my side

Are they above any different? In evolutionary terms, one can only reproduce if one survives for long enough. One can only survive beyond the grave if one reproduces.

Absolutely. Someone could survive his/her entire life without reproducing. Someone could also reproduce at the age of 16 and then be killed a day later. We want to survive as long as possible, that's why women seek capable men. We also want to produce healthy offspring, that's why men seek healthy looking females.

 

[Satine]

18 seems to be the perfect age, maybe even as young as 16. The porn industry clearly demonstrates which general age men are most attracted to

Most of the women in porn I've seen are in their mid 20's, at my estimation. I'll grant you some have a 'young' look, but that's not true in the majority of cases I've seen. It strikes me that there's more appetite out there for uninhibited women, who generally fall into an older category.

Those thugs were a poor example of the ideal contemporary alpha male

Whose ideal?

Well we can agree to disagree, but evolutionary psychology is on my side

I don't think it is. I think you're taking a biased, Tarzanist view.

Absolutely. Someone could survive his/her entire life without reproducing. Someone could also reproduce at the age of 16 and then be killed a day later. We want to survive as long as possible, that's why women seek capable men.

Are you suggesting that a woman is not capable? In so many cultures we have been, and continue to be, primary providers. The men hunt, the women gather. It is we who have almost always provided the most necessary foodstuffs. I find it difficult to believe that a male would not seek success in a female.

We also want to produce healthy offspring, that's why men seek healthy looking females.

True. But what does all this have to do with the alpha position? Most social animals are not the alpha, but they survive very well.

 

[j_brown2]

The thug example made me laugh... noone dares to answer him so that's supposed to make him alpha and coz he's a thug.... That's so not it

 

[SickJoke]

Most of the women in porn I've seen are in their mid 20's, at my estimation. I'll grant you some have a 'young' look, but that's not true in the majority of cases I've seen. It strikes me that there's more appetite out there for uninhibited women, who generally fall into an older category.

Well maybe it was a bad example, but in my experience the porn industry covets 18 year olds.

Whose ideal?

Women

I don't think it is. I think you're taking a biased, Tarzanist view.

I prefer to call it an honest view

Are you suggesting that a woman is not capable? In so many cultures we have been, and continue to be, primary providers. The men hunt, the women gather. It is we who have almost always provided the most necessary foodstuffs. I find it difficult to believe that a male would not seek success in a female.

In evolutionary terms of survival against violence, males are more capable.

True. But what does all this have to do with the alpha position? Most social animals are not the alpha, but they survive very well.

Any group of animals has an alpha male who mates with the healthiest females.

 

[j_brown2]

Satine you think your turned of by aplha males, you say you don't want them... it clearly shows you haven't met a true alpha male yet, coz if you would, you wouldn't talk about them like this

 

[Remus]

Nah, that'd be a waste of time. I'm more of a scientist.

Are we the Labrats?

 

[SickJoke]

Are we the Labrats?

No, just primates intelligent enough to do experiments on ourselves

 

[Satine]

Women

Isn't this what we're getting at? If you're saying that 'women are attracted to x' then you're pigeonholing us. You've said that, insensitive as that may be, it's true, but I'm saying it's not.

As far as I am aware an alpha male is one who has dominance over other males in the group, but I am not attracted to males who have this ability. I am interested in males who are able to carve out a living, but that isn't the same as establishing dominance over the other males with whom they establish contact.

I prefer to call it an honest view

I call it a misguided view.

In evolutionary terms of survival against violence, males are more capable.

Can you prove that? And what about survival against disease, starvation, thirst, evading predators? Who is the more capable in these categories? Can you prove your answer?

Any group of animals has an alpha male who mates with the healthiest females.

Among animals, I would partly agree. Although does the alpha male not have access to all fertile females? This says little about health. And in matriarchal societies such as Japanese macaques, it is the alpha females who choose a male who is allowed to mate with them until they find another favourite, not the males choosing the females.

@J_Brown: How do you define alpha male? So far in life (and in this forum), it strikes me that male dominance and sexual success is more of a male fantasy than a female one.