is being a male virgin unnattractive?

[Remus]

Isn't this what we're getting at? If you're saying that 'women are attracted to x' then you're pigeonholing us. You've said that, insensitive as that may be, it's true, but I'm saying it's not.

Yes I agree, the difference between us and animals is that everyone of us is unique, we share certain similarities of course, our tastes vary considerably, we are not clones

one mans meat, is another mans poison

 

[SickJoke]

Isn't this what we're getting at? If you're saying that 'women are attracted to x' then you're pigeonholing us. You've said that, insensitive as that may be, it's true, but I'm saying it's not.

It's widely accepted that males are attracted to physical beauty. It's still controversial to most people that female attraction can be broken down just as well, but it can be.

As far as I am aware an alpha male is one who has dominance over other males in the group, but I am not attracted to males who have this ability. I am interested in males who are able to carve out a living, but that isn't the same as establishing dominance over the other males with whom they establish contact.

In contemporary society, it's not about violent dominance, but genial leadership.

I call it a misguided view.

I politely disagree

Can you prove that? And what about survival against disease, starvation, thirst, evading predators? Who is the more capable in these categories? Can you prove your answer?

Just look at the male and female physiques of any mammal. The males are more capable of handling threats of violence.

Among animals, I would partly agree. Although does the alpha male not have access to all fertile females? This says little about health.

The alpha male gets first pick out of all the females.

 

[Satine]

It's widely accepted that males are attracted to physical beauty. It's still controversial to most people that female attraction can be broken down just as well, but it can be.

Controversial to whom? Are you suggesting that women are more axiomatic than men, that there is less room for variation?

In contemporary society, it's not about violent dominance, but genial leadership.

I didn't say violent dominance, I just said dominance, by which I mean leadership. And is all leadership genial? Not in my experience.

Just look at the male and female physiques of any mammal. The males are more capable of handling threats of violence.

Alright, then. The female reindeer and the elephant both have weapons (antlers and tusks), which they use to fend of predators who try to catch their offspring. Indeed, female reindeer retain their antlers long after the males have lost theirs. Many ungulates use their hooves as weapons in protecting their young. Try to steal a wildebeeste calf and you'll soon get stamped on.

Some species of African gazelle live in mostly-female groups in which they are kept in hareems. It is the swiftest females who evade capture by predators.

The alpha male gets first pick out of all the females.

And the females of many species get first pick of the males, if they want any male at all.

 

[SickJoke]

Controversial to whom? Are you suggesting that women are more axiomatic than men, that there is less room for variation?

Controversial to the general public.

I didn't say violent dominance, I just said dominance, by which I mean leadership. And is all leadership genial? Not in my experience.

No, but it can be.

Alright, then. The female reindeer and the elephant both have weapons (antlers and tusks), which they use to fend of predators who try to catch their offspring. Indeed, female reindeer retain their antlers long after the males have lost theirs. Many ungulates use their hooves as weapons in protecting their young. Try to steal a wildebeeste calf and you'll soon get stamped on.

Some species of African gazelle live in mostly-female groups in which they are kept in hareems. It is the swiftest females who evade capture by predators.

That's all fine. The males are still physically superior to threats against violence.

And the females of many species get first pick of the males, if they want any male at all.

And they pick the alpha males.

 

[j_brown2]

An alpha male is like a human magnet, if you ever meet one you will know it... he stands out, its not something you choose, it's just automatic, he got the qualities that make him so attracted to women

Again he is a magnet satine, you can't help it but be attracted to him,

I know my uncle was one, I had no idea at the time, I didn't know anything about that stuff back then, but he was a special man I knew that, every time he would talk you just couldn't do anything else but listen, when you were around him he made you feel so good despite not complimenting you or doing anything for you, just being able to hang out with him felt so good....

It makes me laugh when women on here say they don't want an alpha male, you have no idea, you would be beging him to chose you as a sex partner once you would meet him

You can't resist an alpha male..
So satine I can assure you haven't met a true alpha male yet, everything you think you know about aplha males just forget it.

My mother the most trustworthy woman I would say, couldn't resist him, that's an alpha male

 

[Satine]

Controversial to the general public.

What evidence do you have that the general public views women as more predictable than men?

No, but it can be.

Which leaves plenty of margin by which some leadership is decidedly non-genial. More to the point, your original statement was:

Women seek men for their survival value: certain "alpha male" personality characteristics

I've still to see evidence that women seek an alpha male. They may seek a popular male, but again, popularity doesn't necessarily = leadership, genial or otherwise. It can be a tool to leadership, but is not essential. I've known plenty of non-alphas who are popular, but they are not leaders.

That's all fine. The males are still physically superior to threats against violence.

And what's the point of being 'superior' to threats against violence if the females are perfectly capable of fending off such threats themselves?

And they pick the alpha males.

Not always. I've seen examples of female red deer breaking away from a bossy hareem-keeper to mate with her favourite stag.

Again he is a magnet satine, you can't help it but be attracted to him,

I have known magnetic people, but they are not necessarily male, and they are not necessarily what I would call alphas. There may be some correlation between alpha and popularity, but, but it is not an essential component, as far as I am concerned.

It makes me laugh when women on here say they don't want an alpha male, you have no idea, you would be beginning him to chose you as a sex partner once you would meet him

Do not presume to tell me who I would choose as a sexual partner and who I would not. As I said, you are the one enamoured by these males, not I. You are the one raving on about how attractive they are, not I.

You can't resist an alpha male..
So satine I can assure you haven't met a true alpha male yet, everything you think you know about aplha males just forget it.

1. Yes I can.
2. I have met males with leadership abilities. They're nice, but I prefer an independant type, which is something different.
3. Everything you think you know about me, just forget it, because your ideas about me are inaccurate.

 

[SickJoke]

What evidence do you have that the general public views women as more predictable than men?

Mmm I didn't say that, I hope it didn't come across that way to others. I said it's widely accepted that males are attracted to physical beauty. The components of female attraction are still a mystery to the general public, but attraction can be explained for both sexes.

Which leaves plenty of margin by which some leadership is decidedly non-genial. More to the point, your original statement was:

I've still to see evidence that women seek an alpha male. They may seek a popular male, but again, popularity doesn't necessarily = leadership, genial or otherwise. It can be a tool to leadership, but is not essential. I've known plenty of non-alphas who are popular, but they are not leaders.

As I've said "alpha male" personality characteristics are complex in contemporary society. Social intelligence, willingness to emote, and independence are just a few of the qualities.

And what's the point of being 'superior' to threats against violence if the females are perfectly capable of fending off such threats themselves?

Other animals of the same species can pose a threat to a pack. The male's job is to defend its group.

Not always. I've seen examples of female red deer breaking away from a bossy hareem-keeper to mate with her favourite stag.

There are rare exceptions to every rule.

 

[j_brown2]

Satine you haven't met an alpha yet, it's not just one quality like leadership, I won't argue.. if you ever get lucky and an alpha male chooses you, you will remember what I was talking about, keyword chooses you. Don't take it as an offence, just imagine meeting a guy that just takes your breath away, a guy that makes you feel so good by just letting you be in his presence... There are many more things that make an alpha male an alpha male.

I find it funny that you try to say you don't want an alpha male... if you don't even know what an alpha male is, never met one...

 

[Satine]

Mmm I didn't say that, I hope it didn't come across that way to others. I said it's widely accepted that males are attracted to physical beauty. The components of female attraction are still a mystery to the general public, but attraction can be explained for both sexes.

Ah, fair enough. I thought you were saying we were more predictable.

The male's job is to defend its group.

In many species, I will grant you. There are exceptions, such as ring-tailed lemurs, in which the females are the militaristic ones.

There are rare exceptions to every rule.

Aye. But I am keen to put forward that not every species works along the 'males fight for the right to mate and then get all the females, who take a passive role in all of this' concept. There are varied approaches to reproduction in the animal kingdom, and the male hareem is just one.

Satine you haven't met an alpha yet,

Then tell me, J, who have I met, as you seem so well-informed on my social history? You are making an assumption that I've not met the same kind of person you're referring to. That doesn't make it true.

if you ever get lucky and an alpha male chooses you, you will remember what I was talking about, keyword chooses you.

Pah! Excuse me! If such a male chooses me then I will most likely turn him down as I have an active role in my love life too. He may have qualities I do not want, and more to the point, I am already taken with a non-alpha type to whom I am attracted. Not everybody might find him attractive, but I do. He is the choice I made and I have decided to stick with that. Someone who has a good way with people is not going to sway that! I do the choosing as well, J.

Don't take it as an offence, just imagine meeting a guy that just takes your breath away, a guy that makes you feel so good by just letting you be in his presence...

If any male would be so arrogant as to 'let' me be in his presence then he wouldn't be worth it. I have met someone who takes my breath away and he is all I want. And he does not fit the alpha template you're so keen to push.

 

[SickJoke]

Ah, fair enough. I thought you were saying we were more predictable.

In many species, I will grant you. There are exceptions, such as ring-tailed lemurs, in which the females are the militaristic ones.

Aye. But I am keen to put forward that not every species works along the 'males fight for the right to mate and then get all the females, who take a passive role in all of this' concept. There are varied approaches to reproduction in the animal kingdom, and the male hareem is just one.

Thanks for the open-minded, intelligent discussion. I enjoyed it

 

[Satine]

No problem. Glad to have thrashed out a debate with you!

Shee-it, I really have to do some work now!

 

[j_brown2]

I just read you said you can resist an alpha male, it's like saying I could resist having sex with britney spears back in the old days around 2000 when she was hot lol... but whatever like I believe you

 

[Satine]

If you could not resist having sex with Spears then that's your business. If I could resist having sex with one of your alpha males then that's for me to say.

Are you sure you're not confusing sexual attraction with platonic attraction? I like people who can be chatty and outgoing, but that doesn't mean I want to sleep with them. And that includes males.

 

[no1]

we just can't compare animals with humans that much. Why must we believe humans are animals?

why must we believe that an idea of beauty is always fixed, and that we are solely driven by a so called "instinct"? Where is the so called "higher mind" in all of this?

maybe I just believe in "spirituality" as opposed to a lot of you.

I believe we are more than just an egoic image.

 

[Remus]

No problem. Glad to have thrashed out a debate with you!

Shee-it, I really have to do some work now!

I cannot belive that I've Caught you on that SPW site yet again when you should be working!

Satine....

YOUR FIRED!

 

[j_brown2]

Satine you got no idea, your rational thinking, your logic would go out of the window, only your emotions would be in play... So yes I can say assured you haven't met a true alpha male.

 

[Satine]

Lol @ Remus!

I can't believe that your'e on here for hours at a time, getting no rest!

Remus....

YOUR TIRED!

Satine you got no idea, your rational thinking, your logic would go out of the window, only your emotions would be in play... So yes I can say assured you haven't met a true alpha male.

J, if you're that sure, then okay, have it your way. I would be so attracted to your extra-special, super-dooper alpha male that my mind would go blank and I'd respond purely to my animal instincts. Feel better now?

Good luck with your skewed attitude to female sexuality. May it bring you no success whatsoever.

 

[Remus]

ahhh I'm off work for a while, got a disabling injury, yes I'm tired

 

[j_brown2]

You wouldn't have a choice to say no thank you mr alpha male I have a bf Iam attracted to at home, you know how emotions work? Like with SA we act upon our emotions not on rational thinking, we know socializing is not dangerous rationaly

 

[Satine]

ahhh I'm off work for a while, got a disabling injury, yes I'm tired

Ouch! Bad carpal tunnel, naughty carpal tunnel!

You wouldn't have a choice to say no thank you mr alpha male I have a bf Iam attracted to at home

Well, I'm very happy for you that meeting these alpha males have sent you to such a magnificent sexual nadir that you can't comprehend another person not feeling the same.

you know how emotions work? Like with SA we act upon our emotions not on rational thinking, we know socializing is not dangerous rationaly

That is a poor comparison. Sexual attraction and social anxiety are very different mechanisms.