Do you believe in God or Science?

[lonelee1]

it'd be fun to develop a fictional field of science..................

god science maybe. a nice writing prompt for me.

 

[hippiechild]

it'd be fun to develop a fictional field of science..................

god science maybe. a nice writing prompt for me.

Yeah, one that studies imaginary things... or imaginary properties of real things! Like, you could study the invisible, undetectable light emitted by rocks, or the taste preferences of various metals, the thoughts and 'feelings' of electrical networks

..then we could give them fancy names so that nobody knows that our science is actually glorified English composition writing... Geospectrography... Metallogustatory Science.. Psychology!

 

[Nanita]

u wot m8????

Yeah. I probably shouldn´t have written any of my thoughts on this topic at all. Silly me.
I should have listened to my anxiety & avoidant personality disorder when it warned me I would get ridiculing comments like "u wot m8???".

 

[hippiechild]

Yeah. I probably shouldn´t have written any of my thoughts on this topic at all. Silly me.
I should have listened to my anxiety & avoidant personality disorder when it warned me I would get ridiculing comments like "u wot m8???".

No nonooo! your post was totally relevant and reasonable!

If you hadn't posted, I wouldn't have had the pleasure of reading what you wrote, which was very insightful.

 

[Nanita]

No nonooo! your post was totally relevant and reasonable!

If you hadn't posted, I wouldn't have had the pleasure of reading what you wrote, which was very insightful.

thanks ..

 

[Aletheia]

I don't believe in science, because it's not a belief system: it's a model of the universe which is constantly being tested against experimental data and refined.

I also don't believe in religion, because I don't really have the mental architecture for it: any attempt at belief just feels like pretending. My personal philosophy does shade into spirituality, but I still see it as something to do rather than something to believe, and I'm not very comfortable with sticking the label "God" on any of it.

 

[thegunners21]

Yeah. I probably shouldn´t have written any of my thoughts on this topic at all. Silly me.
I should have listened to my anxiety & avoidant personality disorder when it warned me I would get ridiculing comments like "u wot m8???".

Way to go out on a limb. I was literally asking you what because your statement didn't make sense to me. It's just a meme that is used jokingly by a lot of people to simply ask "what?"

Don't know where you got the insulting part from.

 

[Kiwong]

So therefore the multiverse theory is not scientific. (I seem to remember this happening before - you agreed that it is not)

Probably best left in realms of science fiction until there is an experiment to test it.

 

[Flanscho]

The way I see it, science does require belief. You believe that you are alive. You can not proove that you are alive, you believe it.

I think, so I am alive. Dead things can't think. Others can feel my heartbeat, the warmth of my body, measure the currents and overall activity of my body. How is that no proof?

We believe that there is a reality, but we can´t proove it. We can say "I see reality, and I hear it, and I feel real objects with my hands". But that is not proof, it is belief. To make scientific experiments and to scientifically proove certain facts, we must agree on the belief that reality is real. Science can not proove that being alive and awake isn´t an illusion.

So in other words, you say that we shouldn't trust our senses and doubt everything that we witness? Of course, you can do so if you want to. But it doesn't make much sense. Lying in the morning in the bed, refusing to get up, because the bed ain't real, nor the floor it stands on, the house you are in or the planet you are on, simply makes no sense, quite simply because you have no proof that the reality we perceive does not exist.

Yeah. I probably shouldn´t have written any of my thoughts on this topic at all. Silly me.

If you join a discussion, you should be prepared to get replies. And if you stand for very 'strange' points of view, then be prepared to polarize people and get such reactions.

 

[WaterWitch]

I'm everywhere on this topic. I do know that gods and deities exist, yet at the same time I believe in evolution (hello, fossils!). Therefore I've concluded that the Bible is in some parts made up either for sexist reasons, homophobia, or just out of blind faith like Adam and Eve. I honestly don't know if they actually existed because of the whole evolution thing again, but my theory is that the two are personifications of what a writer of the Bible personally thought of gender role (again, sexism).
Back to science, it is proven that the Neanderthals are most of the existing world population are the descendants of long-ago interbreeding between homo-sapiens and the Neanderthals. After a few tens of millennia of interbreeding, it explains why we have so-called "geniuses' or wierd "people. These individuals are actually showing inherited recessive Neanderthal traits, because our ancient cousins were VERY intelligent even though they didn't talk much due to underdeveloped vocal chords.
How this pertains to the topic is that the smartest people in the world are able to grasp the meaning of life so well that the realizations can make them depressed, much like Anton Chekov demonstrated in his short story "the Bet."
These are my views on religion and science, so I have to say I'm for both!

 

[hippiechild]

Way to go out on a limb. I was literally asking you what because your statement didn't make sense to me. It's just a meme that is used jokingly by a lot of people to simply ask "what?"

Don't know where you got the insulting part from.

Once you didn't know, but afterwards she outright stated, though otherwise nobody should have to consider unless another disagrees with a standard, not withstanding, you might even consider rational given a different situation?

U WOT M8 | Know Your Meme

..leh Timzos La Apiphior?

 

[thegunners21]

So in other words, you say that we shouldn't trust our senses and doubt everything that we witness? Of course, you can do so if you want to. But it doesn't make much sense. Lying in the morning in the bed, refusing to get up, because the bed ain't real, nor the floor it stands on, the house you are in or the planet you are on, simply makes no sense, quite simply because you have no proof that the reality we perceive does not exist.

Thank you for putting it in much better words.
I think I won't go to my school, i don't have any proof it's real. Won't go to my job because i can't prove it's real.

There is no point of discussion then, they'll just counter every argument with "but evidence isn't real, it's all perspective".

 

[UnofficiallyMe]

Well,

The idea of this poll is, how shall we say, just a bit tricky...

God is everything, not something. If, and I know you do not all agree, this is true, then science is trying to understand what is going on.

If, on the other hand, there is no God, then science is trying to understand randomness, in which there can be no hope. Therefore you can believe in God, randomness, or nothingness. If you only believe in yourself, I do not exist. If you were enough for youself, this forum would not be necessary.

This is not meant in ANY way to be argumentative. Oh, how in my life I have been wrong, or prideful, I am open to expanding or changing my thoughts, so do add yours!

 

[vj288]

So in other words, you say that we shouldn't trust our senses and doubt everything that we witness? Of course, you can do so if you want to. But it doesn't make much sense. Lying in the morning in the bed, refusing to get up, because the bed ain't real, nor the floor it stands on, the house you are in or the planet you are on, simply makes no sense, quite simply because you have no proof that the reality we perceive does not exist.

There's a difference between not trusting one's sensing and concluding one doesn't exist. I may not trust my ability to drive in snowy weather, but that does not mean I will crash, or that I won't crash.

It would be very silly to not get out of bed because it may not be real. Maybe we are brains in a vat, but not getting out of bed isn't going to make any difference. Also, maybe our senses are accurate, in which getting out bed would be a very good idea. So the possibility of our senses being wrong and everything around us being false is no reason to live our lives any differently.

To use a real life example, if snow is in the forecast and you have homework due the next day, you should still do your homework even though there may be a snowday. If there is a snow day, then you got it done a day early, and if there isn't then it is on time. Assume there is a snow day and there isn't, and you're in trouble.

I doubt Nanita lays in bed because it may just not be real, nor Descartes or Peter Unger or any other skeptics. If you were to look at science under the assumption our senses can be trusted (as you should live your life, I recommend) then it doesn't require much belief, but on this higher level of thinking everything requires belief. I think that is what she was getting at?

 

[coyote]

in the illusion of reality that we believe exists

getting out of bed and going to school or work is required

because they are part of the illusion

 

[Flanscho]

If, on the other hand, there is no God, then science is trying to understand randomness, in which there can be no hope. Therefore you can believe in God, randomness, or nothingness. If you only believe in yourself, I do not exist. If you were enough for youself, this forum would not be necessary.

I don't understand this part. Why is there randomness without God? There are laws of nature and physics that we know. They ain't random. Few things are random in the universe (apart from certain stuff on a quantum scale). Most are just for us too complicate and thus seem random.

And if there'd be a God, why would there be order? You'd know the motivations of Gods actions, and thus it might be just random as well.

Whether there is hope or not depends on what you are hoping for. If you hope for eternal life in some way, then in my opinion, there is no hope. If you hope for great experiences and to improve the world somewhat, then for that there is hope.

in the illusion of reality that we believe exists

getting out of bed and going to school or work is required

because they are part of the illusion

I don't see the point of believing that everything is an illusion if there ain't the slightest evidence that this assumption is more than just that. It's interesting to discuss, but actually believing it makes no sense in my opinion.

 

[UnofficiallyMe]

I should always be more clean, ah SA

Okay, what is order? Dictionary says thus:

transitive verb
1: to put in order : arrange
2a : to give an order to : command b : destine, ordain <so ordered by the gods> c : to command to go or come to a specified place <ordered back to the base> d : to give an order for <order a meal>
intransitive verb
1: to bring about order : regulate
2a : to issue orders : command b : to give or place an order
— or·der·able \-ə-bəl\ adjective
— or·der·er \-dər-ər\ noun

Without God, or a creating / controlling force behind it there cannot be order..
The oppisite of order is randomness..

It would just apprear to be order to us, as we try to cope with what is happening. Order must be created.

God could of course create randomness but why? Just to mess with our heads?

There is order, and there is truth, right?
Where did the orignate? and for what purpose?

 

[BlackPuma]

I don't see the point of believing that everything is an illusion if there ain't the slightest evidence that this assumption is more than just that. It's interesting to discuss, but actually believing it makes no sense in my opinion.

The real question here is whether it matters or not. Real or not, doesn't a apple taste like an apple? Doesn't it hurt when you stub your toe? Whether it's real or not, it's all we got, and so must make the best of it.

 

[Nanita]

I´m thinking that science requires an open mind towards even the strangest points of view.

I imagine that life is probably an illusion or a dream, and that "reality" might start when my physical body dies and I enter a spirit life beyond death. Okay, this does not mean that I won´t participate in the dream/illusion that I see life as. I do get out of bed in the morning, and live my life and so on, even if it´s all an illusion. Why - because I am "trapped" in the illusion and therefore I must take part in it. Just like when I´m dreaming at night; as long as I´m asleep and dreaming, I´m trapped in the dream, and I can´t choose to just do nothing within the dream, on the contrary; I participate, I experience things, I take the dream seriously, I believe in the illusion.

Anyway. This doesn´t seem to have much to do with the original purpose of this thread...........But that is the beauty of conversations, isn´t it.


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While people are dreaming, they do not perceive that as a dream. Some will even have a dream within a dream, and only when they awake they know it was all a dream. And so, when the Great Awakening comes upon us, we shall know this life to be a great dream. Fools believe themselves to be awake now.

I dreamed I was a butterfly, flitting around in the sky; then I awoke.
Now I wonder: Am I a man who dreamt of being a butterfly, or am I a butterfly dreaming that I am a man?

We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it. Yet our opinions have no permanence; like autumn and winter, they gradually pass away.

Only after the great awakening will we realize that this is the great dream.
And yet fools think they are awake, presuming to know that they are rulers or herdsmen.

Chuang-Tzu, chinese philosopher

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[coyote]

^i almost posted something about the butterfly dream before :bigsmile: :thumbup: