Do you believe in God or Science?

Do you believe in God or Science?

  • God

    Votes: 8 7.5%
  • Science

    Votes: 35 33.0%
  • both

    Votes: 33 31.1%
  • none

    Votes: 11 10.4%
  • Oh no another poll!

    Votes: 24 22.6%

  • Total voters
    106
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warcraft

Active member

squidgee

Well-known member
You do realize science laws are not facts, they are actually theories based on empirical evidence at a given time or purely theoretical but are not absolute.

For an example, none of newtons laws are proven.

^This. Nothing in science can be stated as fact with 100% certainty. That being said though, I prefer to put my beliefs in science than in God. I'm not downright rejecting the presence of God though, I remain open to the idea, but I find it pretty difficult to believe.
 

Flanscho

Well-known member
Science is true?

You mean for 2 decades they treated pellagra as a virus when it was a vitamin issue:
UAB - Reynolds Historical Library - History of Pellagra

How about SMON, for 3 decades thought to be a vrius when it was a vitamin issue?


Science can give us TV, Cars etc...but there are hard limits.

Of course there are limits. But most scientists try their best to help us understand the world we live in, accumulate knowledge and thus create a better future.
 

LeBobSauce

New member
I don't know man . Sometime I am like ... Sure ... Our brain function this way, but maybe someone or something has made us that way.. and science only give us the tool to understand something that someone we don't understand really well made for us. Do you follow me ? It like Love. Science can somewhat explain love.. but .. it is that simple ? What if .. it not ?

I love to think we're more than just meat with sexual impulsion and attraction creating the illusion of love or hatred or jealousy or faith, but at the same time I have a hard time believing in some invisible ultra powerful spiritual being that is nowhere to be seen, but everyone and some guy somewhere think that someone talked to him and instructed him his will... It way too easy to manipulate people that way.

So I am like Agnostic...
 
There's no absolute truths; if there were you wouldn't find them on an internet forum, that's for effing sure.

And if they were on forums, there'd be no way of verifying them as such. They'd most likely be lost in saturation. All we have is (individual) educated guesses.
 

Flanscho

Well-known member
Here is the launch of Grasshopper consumer space flight rocket by NASA and SPACE X:
Grasshopper 744m Test | Single Camera (Hexacopter) - YouTube

Any fool can tell that it is 100% CGI (I mean how does the hexacopter fly faster than the rocket?!!?!?)


Here is David Percy and related thoroughly debunking all of the apollo missions:
What Happened on the Moon - YouTube

Anything that comes out of the TV is fake, therefore it is quite obvious what is real and fake.

*sighs* That something is a rocket doesn't mean that it zips about at near lightspeed. Two reasons why the hexacopter is faster:
a) the rocket weights a billion times more, and takes much much longer to gain speed. The copter reaches its max speed within a second, the rocket within minutes. Heck, if you jump up at the same time as the rocket engines ignite, you'd jump higher for a moment than the rocket is. Does that mean that you are faster than any rocket? Nope. It means that the rocket takes far longer to gain speed.
b) the video wasn't about a maximum speed test. It was about maneuverability. The rocket would start, sloooowly because of its weight, then gain some speed, and then again lose speed so that it could return. Why? Because it's wasn't supposed to leave the planet, but rather to do a jump.

About the moon landing mission:
a) there is no single absolute proof that its fake
b) other probes of other nations made since photos of the moon landing site
c) there are moon rocks that got returned by apollo missions
d) the apollo missions left some reflectors on the moon, that can be targeted with lasers and the returning signal be measured

Yes, Hoaxe are fun, and in rare cases true. But often they are just the results of people who make up random stuff.
 

Quietguy11

Well-known member
I think that as long as you go by your moral compass and are sensitive to what your conscience tells you, you will be lead in the right direction spiritually speaking. I was born and raised in a Christian home, so from what I've gathered from the scriptures of the Bible, Jesus is the Son of God - that is, he proceeded forth and came from God and was declared to be his physical human image. What strikes me about people who are absolutely against Jesus is why would they want to hate on a guy who actually - in a sacrificial sense - gave his life for the world? That is, his body and blood was broken and shed so that through him mankind can be reconciled to God. I guess it boils down to whether we are being abused and lied too by the Bible, but I guess that's where a little something called faith comes in. It also strikes me funny that the simplest thing that brings about salvation (namely, "faith") is the hardest thing for people to accept, and put into practice. I've heard one guy tell me that it was because it seems too easy to just believe and then warrant salvation and everlasting life as a result. But it is really that simple. If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
 

Flanscho

Well-known member
why would they want to hate on a guy who actually - in a sacrificial sense - gave his life for the world? ... But it is really that simple. If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Well, I've been raised in a house of scientists. I think that the number of people who hate Jesus is very tiny, and consists mostly of people who are religious. Because people who are not religious have no reason to hate on that guy.

I personally don't hate Jesus either. I just doubt he ever existed, or if he existed, that he was more than any other human on the planet. As such, even if I'd wanted to, it's impossible for me to share your faith.

That is, it's great that you have your faith. I think that people should do anything that makes them happy, as long as it doesn't involve hurting others. As said, I, however, don't share that faith with you. And as much right as you have to believe in your religion, I have the right to see the world and the universe and our our life as a whole the way I see it. Your opinion is not better than mine, nor the other way round.
 

warcraft

Active member
*sighs* That something is a rocket doesn't mean that it zips about at near lightspeed. Two reasons why the hexacopter is faster:
a) the rocket weights a billion times more, and takes much much longer to gain speed. The copter reaches its max speed within a second, the rocket within minutes. Heck, if you jump up at the same time as the rocket engines ignite, you'd jump higher for a moment than the rocket is. Does that mean that you are faster than any rocket? Nope. It means that the rocket takes far longer to gain speed.
b) the video wasn't about a maximum speed test. It was about maneuverability. The rocket would start, sloooowly because of its weight, then gain some speed, and then again lose speed so that it could return. Why? Because it's wasn't supposed to leave the planet, but rather to do a jump.

About the moon landing mission:
a) there is no single absolute proof that its fake
b) other probes of other nations made since photos of the moon landing site
c) there are moon rocks that got returned by apollo missions
d) the apollo missions left some reflectors on the moon, that can be targeted with lasers and the returning signal be measured

Yes, Hoaxe are fun, and in rare cases true. But often they are just the results of people who make up random stuff.

Right, then you must also believe this is right:
FAKE PENTAGON SMOKE - YouTube
 

warcraft

Active member
Well, I've been raised in a house of scientists. I think that the number of people who hate Jesus is very tiny, and consists mostly of people who are religious. Because people who are not religious have no reason to hate on that guy.

I personally don't hate Jesus either. I just doubt he ever existed, or if he existed, that he was more than any other human on the planet. As such, even if I'd wanted to, it's impossible for me to share your faith.

That is, it's great that you have your faith. I think that people should do anything that makes them happy, as long as it doesn't involve hurting others. As said, I, however, don't share that faith with you. And as much right as you have to believe in your religion, I have the right to see the world and the universe and our our life as a whole the way I see it. Your opinion is not better than mine, nor the other way round.

How about the numerous Roman and Greek philosophers/officials who wrote about Jesus during his time?

Look at what you believe.......
Didn't Charles Darwin say that bananas turned into birds? The evolutionists must argue origin..for that they need Cosmic evolution (everything came form nothing), Chemical evolution (how did we get all the elements, stars can't fuse past iron), Organic evolution (we all came from a rock...right), Macro evolution (bananas turn into monkeys??!?!), Micro evolution (this is true, it's called a variation)

Great great great grandpa was a rock according to you.
 

Flanscho

Well-known member
How about the numerous Roman and Greek philosophers/officials who wrote about Jesus during his time?

Look at what you believe.......
Didn't Charles Darwin say that bananas turned into birds? The evolutionists must argue origin..for that they need Cosmic evolution (everything came form nothing), Chemical evolution (how did we get all the elements, stars can't fuse past iron), Organic evolution (we all came from a rock...right), Macro evolution (bananas turn into monkeys??!?!), Micro evolution (this is true, it's called a variation)

Great great great grandpa was a rock according to you.

Why can't you just accept my way of thinking? Why do you think you have to convert me?

Jesus could have also been nothing but a metaphor. And even if Jesus really existed, I doubt that he was more than a mere human. Of course I'm open to any evidence that proves my way of thinking wrong. But as long as there is no such evidence, why should I change my view?

I didn't say that anything any scientist ever said was true. I just think that science by itself was crucial to our development and is what our future depends on. Without science, mankind dies. It's that simple. Without it we'd have been extinct by now.

The concept of systematically organizing knowledge, of observing and then trying to explain via theories which are then proven by evidence and presented to other people who are invited to disprove it... It's the reason why mankind still exists. It's the reason why we have all our knowledge. Why we have medicine, cars, computers, everything.

And evolution? Come on, it's a scientific fact. There exist insane amounts of evidence for it. Heck, it has even been directly observed on very quickly multiplying protozoa. There exists no alternative to evolution. If you have some and can support it with as much evidence as evolution, go for it. You'd be showered with billions of $ and dozens of nobel prizes. There is not even the slightest doubt that evolution is a fact. Claiming evolution to be a lie is like claiming that water is dry and fire is wet. It makes no sense.

And, sorry if I offend you with it, but evolution doesn't have anything to do with where life comes from. But you don't know that. You don't want to know that. The origin of life is a completly different subject. But you just mush them up together, but you have absolutely zero interest in even trying to understand what people try to teach you. You just want to shout "no no no no all wrong", and quote stuff that people who misunderstood those theories garbled up.

What you mean with "we come from rock" is the concept of abiogenesis. Of life forming out of non-living materials. That has nothing to do with evolution. Absolutely nothing. And whereas evolution is a scientific fact, that has been directly observed and with masses of evidence to support it, abiogenesis is a theory, which has not yet been proven. However, I think that abiogenesis makes more sense than any other theory on where life comes from, and I think that it will be proven in future.
People try to replace their lack of knowledge with religion.
Example:
In the past, people thought that a solar eclipse was a deity telling us that the apocalypse is near or a great evil will come. Why? Because they didn't have the technology and knowledge that we have to explain what really happens. Now we know that solar eclipses are just a matter of positioning of the Moon, Earth and Sun, and have nothing to do with any deities whatsoever.
Or people thought that diseases were curses, before they knew that bacterie and viruses and tiny fungi exist. Know we now that diseases have absolutely nothing to do with any curses whatsoever.
And so on and so on. People always tried to explain stuff they couldn't yet understand with mystical concepts. And so far, they have always been proven wrong. There is zero evidence for any of those mystical explanations, while science has allowed us to understand one of those problems after the other, giving us logical answers.

And the same thing will happen with abiogenesis. We don't have the knowledge or technology yet to prove it. And so people try to explain it with some mystical stuff. But same as with the solar eclipses or diseases, or earthquakes or tsunamis or whatever, unless wars or catastrophes wipe us out or bomb us back into the stoneage, we will find those answers.
 

Odo

Banned
God/religion and science aren't necessarily in opposition, but the sort of literal interpretations of the Bible that the creationists drive forward is actually opposed to common sense.

Those people aren't even religious so much as brainwashed. There's a difference between actually wanting to understand God/the divine/the numinous, and making everything into a war against anyone who disagrees because you think they're evil and trying to destroy you. These people even go so far as the completely misinterpret things that anyone of average intelligence should be able to understand... and then mock anyone who actually believes it based on that misinterpretation.

I think that part of coming to terms with what everything is means keeping an open mind and not jumping to any conclusions... and also being open to the possibility that human beings aren't special, or even inherently good. It doesn't mean that part of us isn't attuned to the cosmos on a very large scale, and the Bible/other religious texts don't have to be 100 percent true for that... it just means we're not the center of the universe, which is one of the biggest problems I have with most religions.

Then again, I'm not a scientist either and to be honest, I don't think that 98% of science concerns itself with the 'bigger picture' very often... the way it exists now, in the service of technology, profit and capitalism, isn't so inspiring. But that is more about our value system than the scientific method.
 
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AGR

Well-known member
Isn't funny people talking about topics in science,like we came from nothing,we were rocks,everything just appeared,which nothing is true btw,when their views are much more ****ed up regarding things like appearing out of nowhere,coming from mud,comming from a rib,can't those people actually look at their own views.
 

Flanscho

Well-known member
Isn't funny people talking about topics in science,like we came from nothing,we were rocks,everything just appeared,which nothing is true btw,when their views are much more ****ed up regarding things like appearing out of nowhere,coming from mud,comming from a rib,can't those people actually look at their own views.

Who said you were rocks?
 

coyote

Well-known member
Why can't you just accept my way of thinking? Why do you think you have to convert me?

you ask this, but then you do exactly the same thing and try to convert everyone else to YOUR way of thinking

not just in this thread, but many others

something you might want to reflect on


God/religion and science aren't necessarily in opposition, but the sort of literal interpretations of the Bible that the creationists drive forward is actually opposed to common sense.

Those people aren't even religious so much as brainwashed. There's a difference between actually wanting to understand God/the divine/the numinous, and making everything into a war against anyone who disagrees because you think they're evil and trying to destroy you. These people even go so far as the completely misinterpret things that anyone of average intelligence should be able to understand... and then mock anyone who actually believes it based on that misinterpretation.

I think that part of coming to terms with what everything is means keeping an open mind and not jumping to any conclusions... and also being open to the possibility that human beings aren't special, or even inherently good. It doesn't mean that part of us isn't attuned to the cosmos on a very large scale, and the Bible/other religious texts don't have to be 100 percent true for that... it just means we're not the center of the universe, which is one of the biggest problems I have with most religions.

Then again, I'm not a scientist either and to be honest, I don't think that 98% of science concerns itself with the 'bigger picture' very often... the way it exists now, in the service of technology, profit and capitalism, isn't so inspiring. But that is more about our value system than the scientific method.

great post - i wonder sometimes if the fundamentalist view is really more political or socio-poltical. they disregard all common sense in order to preserve their own idea/ideal of who "they" are in the universe
 
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