Arohanui - Ake Ake KiaKaha's Journal

[Facethefear]

Q: What does it mean when a guy gets put into the friend zone and NOT the boyfriend zone?

A: You give up too easily. She didn't drop you or take out a restraining order. It means she is testing you to see if you want more than a one night stand. She might be giving you the hint (sex shop, cuddles, hugs) that there could be more of that in the future but not after the first date. I hope you told her you would love to be her friend because you found her attractive, intelligent, fun, etc. I hope you ask her out to a movie and tell her you miss her beautiful eyes.
Love at first sight does happen but friendship that builds up to a full blown relationship is more likely to last. Maybe she has been hurt by guys who led her on and used her. I don't understand men at all. If you stop talking to her she will assume that is all you wanted from her.

We want men to pursue us, to be there in the good times and the bad, to move a heavy piece of furniture, to listen to our problems, to make us feel like we are female.

Don't be discouraged - if at first you don't succeed
TRY TRY TRY AGAIN!

 

[KiaKaha]

Dont worry - I will - but I dont think I will talk about it in the future. There is something else I wanted to talk about with an old school friend that I caught up with - but I dont think I will.

This whole thread has been emotionally exhausting for some people I am sure.

And that is the last thing I want.

I am an idealist. I am full of *shoulds* - but I think all of us needs to be that way.

Dont you?

 

[Srijita52]

^I understand what you mean Kia, I'm an idealist too. I might be wrong here, but the thing with *should* is, everyone has different idea of how society, people or things "should" work. So what's right to a person might be wrong to another. I'm not sure if that made sense though.

 

[KiaKaha]

Dont worry - I am not going to talk about girls or anything (although I TOTALLY could - I have heaps to say about...well...you know...the friend cuddler....but I wont. I will refrain)

I just wanted to make a quick posting about concepts such as popularity and admiration - and a few personal observations about it.

See - I find it interesting how popularity seems to be something that is self perpetuating. I have a theory that the only reason why people who are, for some reason, deemed 'popular' are only so because other people see them as being popular.

In other words its a snowball effect - would these same people attract so much admiration and respect if they were not viewed as popular to begin with? I dont actually think they would.

I think this is because all of us want to 'fit in' - we all want to be associated with those who are perceived as the leaders, or the ones who are respected the most - in order to either have some of their so called charm rub off on us (by association) or to conform and seem like we are part of the club.

I also notice the opposite. People who are not popular or part of the club are ignored, overlooked and forgotten about. These people are feeling the exactly the same effects of what popular people do - except that it is opposite.

No one wants to hang around these people because they are not part of the cool club. No one wants to associate with them because they do not offer the same image as what someone who is more liked would.

I think this is very very weak - and very very transparent of just how incredibly fake and superficial people really are.

Why is it that the most (apparently percieved) respected people get the most attention? Even if their behaviour is disingenuous? Why is it that they deserve the most respect and admiration? Why do people flock to such people? Is it because they truly deserve it (perhaps they do) or is it because they simply want to fit in.

And while we are at it - why arent people who are what is considered by many, not up to standard? Why are they not popular? Why dont people want anything to do with them? Is it because....they are simply not popular?

I hope this makes sense. But I mean come on....

I would love to see people be brought up on their true merits and to see that all people have equal worth - rather than constant admiration to a few. It permeates everywhere - workplaces, schools all over society - sometimes....even in online forums.

Anyway ra ra ra.

I have never been popular, in fact quite the opposite - I often feel hated - but I dont think I really want to be - at least, not on what it seems this so called popularity seems particularly based on.

 

[1BlackSheep]

Dont worry - I am not going to talk about girls or anything (although I TOTALLY could - I have heaps to say about...well...you know...the friend cuddler....but I wont. I will refrain)

You can't just throw that out there and not tell us the latest! Inquiring minds want to know! ::

As for the rest, it's all a mystery to me! Boggles the mind.

I have never been popular, in fact quite the opposite - I often feel hated - but I dont think I really want to be - at least, not on what it seems this so called popularity seems particularly based on.

Me neither!

 

[KiaKaha]

You can't just throw that out there and not tell us the latest! Inquiring minds want to know! ::

As for the rest, it's all a mystery to me! Boggles the mind.


Me neither!

You sure you want to know? I mean - last time I brought it up things got pretty wild. It was pretty awesome - I have to admit. It was like a party where the cops busted up the place - and we were like "oh yeah?" and they were like "Yeah" and then we played twisted sisters 'were not gonna take it' and they left because we were so awesome - yeah thats what it was like...

Yeah the popularity thing - pfff. Needed to be said - I wish people were a bit more thoughtful about how people are - and why they are. I dont know...

OK then... if you insist I indulge...

So a couple of things - where we last left off was that I caught up with her yesterday. We were supposed to be going for a spa - I kind of thought that this was pretty intimate - I mean come on, you dont offer to go on a spa with someone your not keen on right? Anyway instead - she wanted to buy a new kitten instead, so I drove her out to this place that sells kittens - and helped her choose one - we got back to her place and the cuddling ensued...

I swear - I so TOTALLY swear that woman likes me in 'that' way - I almost kissed her - I just chickened out.

I know the signs. Here is what I identified via her behaviour.

- Asking me when was the last time I had a girlfriend.
- The cuddles
- Her smiling - making long eye contact.
- Laughing at my (obviously) hilarious jokes
- Saying things like 'hey you' and nestling her head into my chest.
- Close proximity
- Preening her hair
- adjusting her clothes - especially around her breasts
- Licking her lips
- There was some sexual talk - but I wont go into specifics.

Yes - I noticed ALL of that. But remember now - she wants to be friends.
I am SO TERRIFIED of doing ANYTHING.

I have extremely high anxiety about anything that could make me feel good - EVER.

She also gave me something of hers to look after - which I am returning soon.

I dont know. I think she does like me, but I think she is also afraid of being vulnerable. She has been hurt before.

But I also have another theory. I know lots of women (because they all keep putting me in the FRIEND zone) and nearly all of them want to cuddle me and hug me - I asked one of them and they said 'because you are just someone that makes people feel so relaxed - your so snuggly - I can be myself around you' - OK OK I know how up myself that sounds - but those were her words. It is very sweet - but very frustrating too. Its nice that people feel that way around me - but its tantalizing. It would appear that I am the heterosexual male that is everything but the sexually appealing boyfriend type material - I try to be a nice person, it just doesnt seem to... you know...be quite enough.... or is it?

Or something... I dont know. I dont have a clue anymore.

Anyway - I am on the cusp, I am sure...

 

[1BlackSheep]

You sure you want to know? I mean - last time I brought it up things got pretty wild. It was pretty awesome - I have to admit. It was like a party where the cops busted up the place - and we were like "oh yeah?" and they were like "Yeah" and then we played twisted sisters 'were not gonna take it' and they left because we were so awesome - yeah thats what it was like...

Lol, the neighbors are still talkin' about it! ::

So a couple of things - where we last left off was that I caught up with her yesterday. We were supposed to be going for a spa - I kind of thought that this was pretty intimate - I mean come on, you dont offer to go on a spa with someone your not keen on right? Anyway instead - she wanted to buy a new kitten instead, so I drove her out to this place that sells kittens - and helped her choose one - we got back to her place and the cuddling ensued...

Kittens are quite cuddly!

I swear - I so TOTALLY swear that woman likes me in 'that' way - I almost kissed her - I just chickened out.

Good!

But remember now - she wants to be friends.
I am SO TERRIFIED of doing ANYTHING.

Then DON'T!!!! Give it some more time and see how it goes. Patience, Grasshopper!

She also gave me something of hers to look after - which I am returning soon.

A good indication that she plans to see you again!

I dont know. I think she does like me, but I think she is also afraid of being vulnerable. She has been hurt before.

Probably!

But I also have another theory. I know lots of women (because they all keep putting me in the FRIEND zone) and nearly all of them want to cuddle me and hug me

Not sure what that's all about.

It would appear that I am the heterosexual male that is everything but the sexually appealing boyfriend type material - I try to be a nice person, it just doesnt seem to... you know...be quite enough.... or is it?

Maybe you're being too nice? I saw this post on TinyBuddah today that might apply: Are You Too Nice? How to Be Kind and Be Good to Yourself | Tiny Buddha

Anyway - I am on the cusp, I am sure...

I hope so!

 

[Starry]

Your thoughts on popularity seem to be broadly true, though I have seen quite a few exceptions, showing that they're not wholly true... Maybe accurate 90% of the time? Unless you're on about the media, in which case you seem to be 100% accurate (or as close to it as possible)...

But indeed, most "popular" people are certainly nothing special... I always preferred the sub-popular people, who were popular among their own small group, but not generally... Mostly because their popularity in the sub-group was based upon them actually being good/likable/fun/interesting people.

I also have never been popular... Though, strangely at school I seemed to be known by everyone... Every now and again someone would say hello to me, along with my name and I would have no idea who they were! I can only assume that my fame for being intelligent (Yeah, I only had people talk to me to ask for help with their homework *Sigh*), practically silent and praised for my artwork preceded me... Though, thankfully I have never felt hated, except by bullies, but they don't count...

I don't think you should feel hated, Kia... I don't think you're hated on this forum... And I personally respect you a lot! In fact, you're one of the "stand-out" users on the forum along with a couple of others...

As for the cuddler... I still find her behaviour strange... I hope you are correct in thinking she likes you but she's scared...

I honestly have no idea why so many women would say they like to cuddle with you but don't want anything more... I mean, what that one said made sense... But then... If she felt that way, why is there nothing more at all? You seem to know some very strange women, Kia.

Also, *EDIT* to add:

You sure you want to know? I mean - last time I brought it up things got pretty wild. It was pretty awesome - I have to admit. It was like a party where the cops busted up the place - and we were like "oh yeah?" and they were like "Yeah" and then we played twisted sisters 'were not gonna take it' and they left because we were so awesome - yeah thats what it was like...

That made me literally laugh out loud! ^_^ And now I feel the need to go and listen to Twisted Sister...

 

[kilojoule]

I don't think you should feel hated, Kia... I don't think you're hated on this forum... And I personally respect you a lot! In fact, you're one of the "stand-out" users on the forum along with a couple of others...

As for the cuddler... I still find her behaviour strange... I hope you are correct in thinking she likes you but she's scared...

I honestly have no idea why so many women would say they like to cuddle with you but don't want anything more... I mean, what that one said made sense... But then... If she felt that way, why is there nothing more at all? You seem to know some very strange women, Kia.
.

^ I second all this

Furthermore

Hated??? wtf lol I don't know where you're getting that from!?! That's the opposite of the truth! Id like to point out that your posts are incredibly popular on here, you post something and bam over 100 replies! Ive gotten hatemail from giving you advice someone didnt like lol thats how protective your readers are! Id say youre very popular round these parts kia and its not some conspiracy youre popular because people like you! For a variety of reasons I won't list


edit: I forgot to mention; do not understand the cuddler woman at all! I have to agree, she is sending signals

 

[Nathália]

I am just going to do a drive by on your blog. I read it and just felt like I had to respond. Then I am going back in hiding to for a while, I just want to say this. "KiaKaha" I have never met you, but the support you have shown me has been tremendous, I was actually shocked a complete stranger was so very sweet when I was going through a certain stage. I do not doubt that you are just that way in real life. You're a caring person, you may not be able to "counsel" people, but you show good support. You will find someone, I really believe so. These are just my opinions from reading your blog, nothing that I am trying to push on you and people can disagree, I don't care. I am just going to vent in your personal space and interrupt it because I can. Kidding. I am just making ASSumptions, if that is what you wanna call it.

I think you're just afraid of being hurt and because of that you're tying to read this individual. There is no code language to women at all. Her actions are into regards of what she is thinking, not you, one of us or whoever. You are an analytical person, I think that is great, I love it, I am that way too. Although; I think you are being too analytical in this area because you don't want to feel pain.

Certain behaviors does not give you a clue to anything except for this individuals personalty. One group of people may say one thing may give you a certain result and then you can go to different people and they may think entirely different things. She is the one who really knows. Open up and don't be afraid to. When you go into a relationship, it is great that both partners voice their opinions about what they want and don't want. Just from my view, it just seems like you're on the fence trying to see where it goes. If you're on a fence, get off of it now.

Go express yourself, I understand you have social anxiety and I think it may be some of your anxiety coming to play worrying about what is coming next. You have to tell people or they are going to make a guess for you. She is probably wondering where things are going to. I thought it was rude if she toyed with you and was like bye sucka, I don't want to see you again, but this person is showing some type of interest in you. You're more in control of this situation than you realize.

I don't know what friends mean, in her context. If she was talking to you about dating, I don't think she thinks you're not heterosexual. There is something about you that keeps this woman coming back. I don't think you're a mega millionaire, or the stereotypical hunk, but what do I know????...hmmmm. You seem to be naturally affectionate and maybe you give her the affections that she has lacked in her life and want to feel that on a friend level, so she won't lose you? It can be so many things.

Sorry you feel this way. I understand myself I admit I have a habit of checking broad behaviors. "licking her lips", that can mean absolutely nothing. I lick my lips a lot because they can be ashy or it is a habit. Do not take yourself through this. You are taking yourself though this and not her.

This person is being affectionate with you and that can be very vulnerable position. Especially on the first and second dates. Some women are like " hold up, that is not right", but there could have been something that has happened in her life leading her to be this way. Maybe I am getting the wrong vibes about you, because my perceptions are limited.

Just saying. Peace and love, take a breather. I hope you will be okay, no KiaKaha will be okay! I am being a real, as real as I can be. You lower your expectations, because of what you've dealt with in your life, but I am going to ooze over my positivity , just to say you can meet certain expectations, once you open up.

Edit:

 

[Facethefear]

The popular crowd usually starts with an alpha male who is a born leader and his friends and the females who are brought into the group by them. They incite jealousy/envy because of their noticable togetherness and team strength not unlike the animal kingdom with packs and pack leaders. The members are usually smart, attractive, athletic and confident - all attributes that most others crave. They seem to be having the most fun which is another desire many people have. They are magnets to each other.

Any group of people can form a clique because of similiar interests - acting, music, computers, religion, etc. They are brought together because of a shared interest in a thing.

Each member gets strength and positive reinforcement from the group dynamic like a functional family unit. Social avoidants, if forced together, could form a similiar structure with a daddy, mommy and siblings. By our nature, we tend not to do that because we are like cats in a world full of dogs. I have never heard of a cat pack. My cat is very antisocial but loves me dearly while my dog wants to run to meet every other living thing with his tail wagging. He loves me dearly also.

I was born with a cat personality, but at certain times in my life I was observed as doglike and brought into a pack for a while, until my discomfort and inability to keep up the social obligations resulted in me getting out. This was when I was a teenager. I have seen it from both sides but my nature tells me I need to go it alone, otherwise I would have continued to drink and party hearty and drained all my energy with my fake extrovert persona. I did notice other people staring at our group with envy and men really looking me over and I felt torn between 2 worlds. When I got back to my true self and spent my evenings reading a book and sipping tea all my energy returned and my breathing became normal.

What happened to the remaining members of that popular group from what I know:
- one died before his 40th birthday
- one was an alcoholic then (the funnest one) and it almost killed him. Years in AA, rehab and self pity followed.
- one female had a nervous breakdown when she was dropped by her popular bf.
- one very seemingly weak submissive female became very strong and successful.
- the alpha male became very successful in his profession but had a secret sadistic sexual side that made him live a double life and he scares me to this day.

It was a great day when I accepted that I am what I am and it's OK. To thine own self be true.

 

[coyote]

Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.

from Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V

 

[KiaKaha]

Oh my.

Well - I dont know about all that. But that is all very sweet of you to say (gosh I am modest) It is a little disturbing to read that people are sending hatemail to each other on my behalf - thats not cool. I may not agree with everything that is said sometimes but there is no need to be hatin on each other - although I am sure the intent is genuine. No one should be getting abused though and sending hatemail - it is kind of bittersweet I guess - but please dont

Yeah well - I am gonna ask her out on a date via email tonight - the whole thing has disaster written all over it. I guess I have nothing to lose. EXCEPT MIND NUMBING HEART BREAK AND DISAPPOINTMENT - but hey - who cant handle a little emotional pain? I am going to offer to make my world famous chicken fettucini and watch a movie.

Maybe I am too intense....and sexy. Maybe that's it.

Thank you Beleza - you are a sweet heart - and to everyone else that responds also. I read all replies - and I appreciate it.

I have a job interview next week for a currency security driver. You know those guys who go to the banks and pick up the cash? Yep. That. I am also hoping to move out pretty soon.

I think I really need this sort of stabilization and independence to really help me feel better about life. I almost have it. Although working on SA, shyness and confidence will always be a difficult battle for me.

 

[Bustn Justin]

Sounds like you got a lot going on. Good luck!

 

[kilojoule]

Oh my.

It is a little disturbing to read that people are sending hatemail to each other on my behalf

Just to clarify, there is no "each other" It was a one way avenue. If I have a problem with something, I ask for clarity-I do not send mean emails...theres no 'each other' about it, dont paint me with that brush But my point stands people do want to rally round you!

Yeah well - I am gonna ask her out on a date via email tonight - the whole thing has disaster written all over it. I guess I have nothing to lose. EXCEPT MIND NUMBING HEART BREAK AND DISAPPOINTMENT - but hey - who cant handle a little emotional pain? I am going to offer to make my world famous chicken fettucini and watch a movie.

Any updates on this?

Maybe I am too intense....and sexy. Maybe that's it.

Yknow thats probably what it is, she cant handle all the sexy

I have a job interview next week for a currency security driver. You know those guys who go to the banks and pick up the cash? Yep. That. I am also hoping to move out pretty soon.

I think I really need this sort of stabilization and independence to really help me feel better about life. I almost have it.

Yes. This. I couldn't agree more.

And I truly believe independance is a huuuge part of the confidence puzzle for everyone. That'll make all the difference to you!

You've made a shytload of progress this past year. I definitely think you owe it to yourself to reflect on what changes theres been in you, your outlook this past year. There is a world of difference between your posts last year and your posts now.
Kudos to you kia you've taken leaps and bounds!

 

[kilojoule]

...Manly leaps & bounds that is

 

[KiaKaha]

Just to clarify, there is no "each other" It was a one way avenue. If I have a problem with something, I ask for clarity-I do not send mean emails...theres no 'each other' about it, dont paint me with that brush But my point stands people do want to rally round you!

Oh I know. I didnt mean it was a two way avenue. I am quite aware it was a single way system. No brush painting intended.

 

[KiaKaha]

Here is a picture of my Mum, me and my sister.

I am the little boy with all the hair... obviously.

I dont really know why I am posting it - I just feel like it I suppose.

 

[MikeyC]

I like your mum's 80's hairdo!

 

[Nathália]

Your mother looks like a vintage model, beautiful people. I also want to smooch the chubby jaws on little kia cakes; adorable.