Arohanui - Ake Ake KiaKaha's Journal

[kilojoule]

If only we all could be as wise as you and give such great advice, talk about having tickets on yourself.

I don't understand 'ticket on yourself' what do you mean?

 

[Silatuyok]

Meh, it makes sense to me. And I've tried giving you my honest explanation, but I guess I don't know how to make it clear enough. I guess I'm just one of those scum who would gladly cuddle with a guy then wake up the next morning and realize that I don't really want to see him again. Sometimes cuddling is all you want from a guy.

 

[MollyBeGood]

maybe you should just ask her yourself before too much time has gone by and she uses the busy excuse or whatever..

it's different for everyone though-no two women are going to give you the same answer. I think you want some simple cut and dry answers and it's love/relationships and they are really complex things based on emotions, woman are emotionally creatures, guys are not wired the same way.

People now seem to want everything and want it immediately or they move on. It's the down side of modern technology and will probably only keep getting worse with time.
Maybe you should stop looking for someone then it seems like you might find them if that makes sense to you.

 

[Silatuyok]

I agree with the above. It kind of sounds like you're trying too hard, and girls pick up on that.

 

[kilojoule]

Yikes I'm sensing hostility


well just to clarify

When I used the term 'the scum of the dating pool' it was very harsh admittedly but I was referring to the individual who had this exchange with kia

I asked this question on a more unforgiving - rather blunt dating forum. Here are some of the responses I got.

Quote:
It is probably because you are a minger

That means ugly.

I do not rate that person's advice highly. Our Kia is not a minger. And that person's advice is useless.

 

[KiaKaha]

Meh, it makes sense to me. And I've tried giving you my honest explanation, but I guess I don't know how to make it clear enough. I guess I'm just one of those scum who would gladly cuddle with a guy then wake up the next morning and realize that I don't really want to see him again. Sometimes cuddling is all you want from a guy.

Well as far as I am concerned cuddling a guy that you just met after a date implies a sense of intimacy.
That just seems a bit silly - and a bit of a tease - and a little bit cruel.

Sorry but you dont cuddle and kiss a man and then say lets just be friends.

You behave in a way that is appropriate with your intentions and your feelings.... quite frankly, I am baffled that I am the only one that seems to be able to understand this.

 

[Starry]

Well as far as I am concerned cuddling a guy that you just met after a date implies a sense of intimacy.
That just seems a bit silly - and a bit of a tease - and a little bit cruel.

Sorry but you dont cuddle and kiss a man and then say lets just be friends.

You behave in a way that is appropriate with your intentions and your feelings.... quite frankly, I am baffled that I am the only one that seems to be able to understand this.

I completely agree with you, Kia, and so does my husband. So you're definitely not alone!

 

[Silatuyok]

Well as far as I am concerned cuddling a guy that you just met after a date implies a sense of intimacy.
That just seems a bit silly - and a bit of a tease - and a little bit cruel.

Sorry but you dont cuddle and kiss a man and then say lets just be friends.

You behave in a way that is appropriate with your intentions and your feelings.... quite frankly, I am baffled that I am the only one that seems to be able to understand this.

But, as I stated in a previous post, kissing and cuddling on a first date is what doesn't make sense to me, if you are looking for a serious relationship. If someone tries to cuddle with me on a first date, that just means to me that you aren't looking for anything serious at all. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I have every right to cuddle and kiss a man and then say let's be friends. Why not, if we have nothing else built up as far as the relationship is concerned? I'm not saying it's the best way, but I'm saying it happens, and I don't really see what there is to understand about it. You seem to be looking for someone to tell you that what this girl did is horribly wrong or that she rejected you because you are a good and nice person. I don't believe either of those things, and that's my honest opinion. No hostility intended.

 

[coyote]

Hmm (female here)...every woman is different but if you want to get to the nuts and bolts of it then IMO most women who want to have children, and start families want an assertive guy who can bring home the bacon. That's not saying all woman care about is your bank account but I think if you love a guy and want to have kids you want to know you're not going to live in poverty first and foremost-nobody wants that for themselves or their children.

I think this might be a strong element.
Which is interesting - because obviously there is an expectation a male has to be the bread winner. I totally understand it - although it is a little unfair. Which is why having an amiable personality (like myself) is simply not enough. I think there is a lot of instinctual primeval caveman stuff going on here - and this is part of it.

the way it had been explained to me in the past by several women i've known is that in a romantic relationship, women often want to be taken care of - this may include the financial sense (e.g. breadwinner), but i think it has more to do with being taken care of physically and/or emotionally

but, from my understanding, what's even more important than being taken care of by the man is her NOT feeling like she has to take care of HIM - women often find themselves in a caretaker roll in much of their life (kids, parents, family, friends, job, etc.) and the last they want at the end of a hard day is to have one more person to take care of. they want their romantic partner to be strong - emotionally, physically, mentally - so that they can let down their defenses and lean on him for a while

men do this, too - i know, because i've done it... met an incredible woman who i just didn't feel strong enough to be in a relationship with, so asked to be friends instead

(i realize this is doesn't apply to every woman)

 

[coyote]

Sorry but you dont cuddle and kiss a man and then say lets just be friends.

i've done way more than that with women who i ended up friends with

and i was married to a woman who didn't like to touch

the level of physical intimacy does not define the relationship

at least for a lot of people

 

[KiaKaha]

I am just looking for a reason - an honest reason - because it happens over and over again. It's a pattern and I feel frustrated. I am not looking for someone to tell me what I want to hear.

So wait - you are telling me.... that you find it perfectly acceptable to go on a date, get physically close (hold hands, cuddle, kiss etc) and have absolutely no intention of pursuing it further - and declaring (to a man who actually likes you) that you just want to be friends. You see this as acceptable.

You cant have your cake and eat it too sorry. A better way is to behave appropriately with your intentions. I dont think that is an unreasonable request.

I understand perfectly what you are saying. I just find the logic very backward - and a little bit mean.

 

[Rembrandt Broam]

but, from my understanding, what's even more important than being taken care of by the man is her NOT feeling like she has to take care of HIM - women often find themselves in a caretaker roll in much of their life (kids, parents, family, friends, job, etc.) and the last they want at the end of a hard day is to have one more person to take care of.

I can totally understand why a woman (or anyone) wouldn't want that role, and yet there seem to be plenty of women who do exactly that. They are married or are in serious relationships with guys who act like overgrown kids, and the woman ends up in the "mother" role. And yet there are guys like Kia, who seems like he would make a very emotionally supportive partner, who get repeatedly knocked back. You can see why he gets so frustrated? ::

 

[Nathália]

That makes sense to me. You don't play people because you want something from them. That is only caring about how you feel at the end of the day.

Don't be all over someone and then the next day you bounce. I know women don't like it when men do it, so why is it okay for females to?

It makes people not trust people because they are being deceived by actions or words. If you want to do that, let people know and if people say no, then oh well. I say deal with it because you have to care about hurting other people.

People wanting to get things out of people and then tossing them to the side is awful. Not everyone looks for that, some people want to be taken seriously and if you don;t want to give someone that you're wasting their time, energy, money and whatever.

If you go to do that and saying " It is just fun" Yea to you, but you are wasting certain peoples time because they are going out in the dating pool to look for someone genuine and you just want them for what you want.

 

[coyote]

So wait - you are telling me.... that you find it perfectly acceptable to go on a date, get physically close (hold hands, cuddle, kiss etc) and have absolutely no intention of pursuing it further - and declaring (to a man who actually likes you) that you just want to be friends. You see this as acceptable.

apparently you've been living in the Disney version of this life

in the R-Rated version adult men and women hook up, make out, and get down every day with no intention of pursuing any type of relationship other than exchanging contact information in case they want to get together and do it again sometime - physical intimacy and "relationships" are two entirely different things

this is nothing new - we've been doing this for thousands of years

 

[coyote]

I can totally understand why a woman (or anyone) wouldn't want that role, and yet there seem to be plenty of women who do exactly that. They are married or are in serious relationships with guys who act like overgrown kids, and the woman ends up in the "mother" role. And yet there are guys like Kia, who seems like he would make a very emotionally supportive partner, who get repeatedly knocked back. You can see why he gets so frustrated? ::

yep absolutely

 

[KiaKaha]

the level of physical intimacy does not define the relationship

at least for a lot of people

No it does not - however everyone responds to other people based on how you intepret their behaviour.

Ok - so moral of the story is if you go on a date and she flirts with you, kisses you etc it doesnt necessarily means she actually likes you. Got it. It just means she holds all the cards and can throw you to the curb if and when she wants all the while as you get your hopes up.

Thanks for clarifying. Makes perfect sense.

 

[1BlackSheep]

That makes sense to me. You don't play people because you want something from them. That is only caring about how you feel at the end of the day.

Don't be all over someone and then the next day you bounce. I know women don't like it when men do it, so why is it okay for females to?

It makes people not trust people because they are being deceived by actions or words. If you want to do that, let people know and if people say no, then oh well. I say deal with it because you have to care about hurting other people.

People wanting to get things out of people and then tossing them to the side is awful. Not everyone looks for that, some people want to be taken seriously and if you don;t want to give someone that you're wasting their time, energy, money and whatever.

If you go to do that and saying " It is just fun" Yea to you, but you are wasting certain peoples time because they are going out in the dating pool to look for someone genuine and you just want them for what you want.

Thank you, Beleza! I'm glad I'm not the only one who is apparently living the "Disney" version of life. I thought it was called "common courtesy", but what do I know...

 

[Labyrinthine]

No it does not - however everyone responds to other people based on how you intepret their behaviour.

Ok - so moral of the story is if you go on a date and she flirts with you, kisses you etc it doesnt necessarily means she actually likes you. Got it. It just means she holds all the cards and can throw you to the curb if and when she wants all the while as you get your hopes up.

Thanks for clarifying. Makes perfect sense.

Out of curiosity, how does she act around other men? I've known girls who were flirty and touchy feely with guys in general. It was just how they were.
Don't get me wrong; I don't approve with leading someone on. She should have been open with you from the beginning in regards to her feelings.

 

[coyote]

Ok - so moral of the story is if you go on a date and she flirts with you, kisses you etc it doesnt necessarily means she actually likes you.

i'm sorry it's taken you so long to learn this

 

[Silatuyok]

No it does not - however everyone responds to other people based on how you intepret their behaviour.

Ok - so moral of the story is if you go on a date and she flirts with you, kisses you etc it doesnt necessarily means she actually likes you. Got it. It just means she holds all the cards and can throw you to the curb if and when she wants all the while as you get your hopes up.

Thanks for clarifying. Makes perfect sense.

Yes. That's exactly why, if you are interested in developing something serious, you don't make out on a first date, or a second date, or until you have secured some sort of mutual understanding that it actually means something. Not everyone acts on their intentions, and you can't assume what another person's intentions are. Moreover, intentions can change. That's what getting caught up in the moment is all about. There's no philosophical argument as to why is happens or why it should not, it just does. If you don't want it to happen, take the practical steps to prevent it.