Feminism

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dottie

Well-known member
I'm going to gloss this over for the sake of time...

I've been struggling with my beliefs on feminism...

On one hand, I think that feminism has destroyed culture in many ways. We have the destruction of the family unit, now it takes two incomes to raise a family rather than the male's alone, now women are expected to do EVERYthing. Everything, let's be real. We are expected to take care of the children, the home, all of the chores, healthcare, the finances, vehicle maintenance, and compete fiercely for a career.

With feminism, I am not allowed to be a woman. Keeping house and nurturing is no longer revered as a valuable contribution to society, as it should be. The craft of nurturing the family/home is no longer considered a worthwhile use of time. Families are falling apart but this is not considered important? When families fall apart, society falls apart.

With feminism, women see men as useless, only there to use us for sex and to have their noses wiped, almost like having another child (especially with gamer/broculture gag). Men resent women for being "independent" (even though we don't really have a choice in this). But if she is not independent men see her as a user! There is a huge divide.

On the other hand, feminism seems great. I should get equal pay for equal work, even if I do have to leave to have kids. My contributions at my job have been every bit as effective and important as any male's. I can own property, vote, and choose to leave if a guy I am with turns out to be an abusive SOB...

Sometimes I see feminism as a destructive burden, other times I see its benefits...
 

MotherWolff

Banned
I totally agree with you. A woman should be free to either work and be independent or stay at home and be more dependent.

Feminism kinda even hurts men too. A man MUST work to be worthy in this ****ed up society. If he stayed at home doing whatever, he is disgusting and he ain't no man. Whereas if a woman did that, its ok. What a freakin double standard!

Everyone should have a right to choices, as long as it doesn't put other people in danger.

That's how I feel about it.
 
Isn't feminism (in its traditional understanding) not more about the ability to choose rather than suggested social conduct? If you see a need to stay at home and mend family bonds then that is in itself a admirable aspiration.

Strength and independence lies in taking action in what you feel needs to be done, despite what others think about it.
 

Odo

Banned
Isn't feminism (in its traditional understanding) not more about the ability to choose rather than suggested social conduct? If you see a need to stay at home and mend family bonds then that is in itself a admirable aspiration.

Strength and independence lies in taking action in what you feel needs to be done, despite what others think about it.

I think this is pretty much it.

Any movement that asks people to change the way they think and act is going to get a bad rep, even if those changes would probably be better for everyone involved.

It's always the radicals who get all the attention because their views make the most sensational stories, but feminism encompasses a lot of different perspectives and not everyone is in agreement.

I don't think feminism has anything to do with men being metrosexuals... but it might encourage the type of egalitarian environment in which men would feel more comfortable expressing themselves that way. And I'm not sure there's unanimous agreement about whether or not being a housewife is a good thing or a bad thing... some radical feminists have wacky ideas that don't deserve serious consideration, but end up being more widely known than the more moderate ones simply because their views make the most sensationalistic stories.

As to whether or not you are a feminist, I would first ask myself if I had actually read any books, studied the ideology in-depth enough to know which particular school of thought you identify with, or whether or not you had actively participated in any sort of event that could be considered feminist.

I would say that most people are not feminists, in the same way they're not really political or not really concerned about the environment. A passing interest or some vague, superficial appreciation of something doesn't make you a part of it.
 
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Ithior

Well-known member
I like to call all those negative things you mentioned "Tumblr feminism". It's not really what feminism defends, but it's a variation often seen in tumblr. Unfortunately, it seems most "feminists" are like that, or at least they're the vocal majority.
I'm ok with actual feminism, and I think it makes sense. The only thing that bothers me is the name. It's supposed to defend equality between men and women, yet it's named after women. I think that that also sparks misunderstandings and all those negative points you mentioned.

A thing that bothers me on the ongoing feminist movement is that it disregards all the areas where women are privileged over men. I don't think all privileges should be taken down, but there should be a balance. It seems to me that this wave of feminism is only concerned about taking all privileges away from men, while women keep theirs.
Another thing is that even actual feminists think women should be privileged because men have been privileged until now. I consider my sister to be an actual feminist (she has studied a lot about this) and this is what she actually thinks. It makes it look like this whole thing is just payback. Why do I have to pay for what other men did in the past? It's like saying we should kill Germans now because "they" killed Jews 60 years ago.

Don't get me started on this new gender identification thing though, I find it ridiculous.
 
Another thing is that even actual feminists think women should be privileged because men have been privileged until now. I consider my sister to be an actual feminist (she has studied a lot about this) and this is what she actually thinks. It makes it look like this whole thing is just payback. Why do I have to pay for what other men did in the past? It's like saying we should kill Germans now because "they" killed Jews 60 years ago.

Don't get me started on this new gender identification thing though, I find it ridiculous.

Or white people deserve to be treated poorly and/or should feel guilty for things that their ancestors did (or didn't do!) in the past which they have no connection to. I know this is off-topic from the main point of the post but what you said was very pertinent to something I've been thinking about a lot lately. Race relations is a thorny topic and white privilege is an undeniable fact, especially in America, but I struggle with feeling like shit for being white while living in a very diverse area. Maybe I should make a thread to discuss it.

Re: gender identificaiton, I feel the same way. I don't want to be ignorant or rude, but the whole "there are actually more than two genders" thing has got me scratching my head. I mean... really??? I know some people actually believe gender is purely a societal construct but I do not. Male and female, while heavily culturally influenced, are inherently different in a number of ways besides just the physical appearance. Hormones play a major role in the emotional and mental development and behaviors between the genders. There is male, and there is... female. A penis and a ******, testosterone and estrogen. Where is this third (or fourth fifth sixth) gender coming from? And just what is it?

Re: dottie about feminism, I feel the same exact way you do. I cringe when I encounter misogyny and I believe in the dignity of women as human beings with certain rights, but there are many things I feel confused about regarding the topic.

Note: Irony, much? The censor bleeped out v a g i n a but not the male anatomy :rolleyes:
 
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Emerald1

Member
Hi, I'm a feminist :) I believe in equality for men and women (since that is what feminism is about). I am not going to be treated as less of a person or less able than a man just because of my gender. Although, of course, there will always be objective proven differences such as physical strength.

Just curious.. are there any girls out there who believe that they should be payed less than a guy for the same amount of work? or is there anyone who just believes they are intrinsically inferior because they are female? Would anyone trade their right to be equal and to have a voice in society so that society can maintain its traditional family units? Honestly just curious I don't mean for these questions to be challenging in any way.

It used to be pretty bad.. for example once upon a time it was legal to rape your wife. I think that sometimes we forget what it would be like if feminism hadn't come about because we didn't really have to experience it (although many still do). A person, male or female, should never have to be totally reliant on another person to live. Feminism for me doesn't say that a woman HAS to stay at home, it says that a woman can CHOOSE if she wants to stay at home or go to work. It provides choices and autonomy.

Just my thoughts :)
 
It used to be pretty bad.. for example once upon a time it was legal to rape your wife.

I know a blogger (a really, really awful one) who actually believes there is no such thing as marital rape. He thinks that when you marry someone you are giving your partner unconditional access to your body regardless of how YOU feel about having sex at any given time - he thinks that is part of the marriage "contract." Scary how some people think, isn't it?
 

dottie

Well-known member
Thanks for the thoughtful responses. People don't typically ask me if I am a feminist, it is something I ask myself... (My thought was worded wrong in my previous post). It is something I have been contemplating.

Your posts make me feel a little better, like I don't have to choose a side, since I'm not affiliated with the movement. The education system in California does push students to identify themselves as feminists... sometimes overtly, sometimes through soft sale, sometimes subliminally. Initially, I bought into it... now that I am older, I see through it and resent it.

Molly, I agree with everything you said. I want a real man, not a metrosexual ninny... And I want to be a real woman for that man. (That doesn't mean he gets to make me his punching bag, either, btw...) Just a nice balance of mutual respect and contributions toward a healthy, loving relationship. Different doesn't mean unequal.

I found this interview quite fascinating. The whole break down of the family was planned.
This is not to say I don't think we have rights as women to our bodies and equal pay for equal work, but yes, the family unit is ruined now.

Feminism Was Created To Destabilize Society - YouTube

YES. (Btw, this is exactly what I suspect is happening with massive illegal immigration simultaneous to not checking voter ID: engineered population replacement for the benefit of these same people rolling the dice. That is a whole different can of worms.)

I guess I am holding out hope that a real man is out there for me who feels the same way. :l
 

DepravedFurball

Well-known member
He thinks that when you marry someone you are giving your partner unconditional access to your body regardless of how YOU feel about having sex at any given time - he thinks that is part of the marriage "contract." Scary how some people think, isn't it?

Perfect example of why feminism needs to be ever present in society, or at least until concepts like this die off.


By the way, I'm male, and I'm a feminist. Strange thing to say, right? But it's true... I consider women and girls still far too oppressed, and forced into disgusting stereotypes minutes after entering into the world. :thumbdown:
 

dottie

Well-known member
but I struggle with feeling like shit for being white while living in a very diverse area. Maybe I should make a thread to discuss it.

Oh please do!

As far as gender ID goes... if you are that confused about your gender I think you are mentally ill. I'm not dismissing it as some trivial experience... that has to be horrible... but it is abnormal and a mental illness. It is important to be honest about these things, not politically correct.
 

Odo

Banned
Re: gender identificaiton, I feel the same way. I don't want to be ignorant or rude, but the whole "there are actually more than two genders" thing has got me scratching my head. I mean... really??? I know some people actually believe gender is purely a societal construct but I do not. Male and female, while heavily culturally influenced, are inherently different in a number of ways besides just the physical appearance. Hormones play a major role in the emotional and mental development and behaviors between the genders. There is male, and there is... female. A penis and a ******, testosterone and estrogen. Where is this third (or fourth fifth sixth) gender coming from? And just what is it?

I think that gender is most certainly a social construct.

If you see a traditionally feminine male, you will probably think he is less of a man than a more masculine male. But you don't think this because of some instinctual urge, you think this because society has conditioned you to react to feminine males with disgust... and this type of thinking also presumes there is some ideal state of 'man' that all males must aspire towards, and failing to reach that standard means that they are inferior. And of course, under these rigid definitions the same is true for women.

Envisioning gender as a spectrum liberates men and women from that pursuit of their gender-specific 'ideal', so that they can simply be themselves and find acceptance without trying to conform to the rigid man/woman dynamic.

And transgenderism does in fact biologically exist and is more common than you might think. These people do tend to identify with one gender over the other due to social pressures, which is a consequence of gender being defined so rigidly. This is also why they can be dismissed as 'freaks' by people who simply don't get it and are under no pressure to get over their ignorance.

I think the idea of gender being a spectrum is a very positive thing that is far more natural than the traditional view. Nature isn't simple or biblical, it's rich and diverse and complex and beautiful... so why can't there be a spectrum of genders in the same way there is likely spectrum of sexual orientations?
 
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MikeyC

Well-known member
Note: Irony, much? The censor bleeped out v a g i n a but not the male anatomy :rolleyes:
I noticed this a while ago and I really don't like it, either.

Just curious.. are there any girls out there who believe that they should be payed less than a guy for the same amount of work? or is there anyone who just believes they are intrinsically inferior because they are female? Would anyone trade their right to be equal and to have a voice in society so that society can maintain its traditional family units? Honestly just curious I don't mean for these questions to be challenging in any way.
I sincerely hope that no female on this forum answers yes to any of these questions. I'm male and yet I can't understand why a woman will get paid a few dollars less per hour for doing the exact same work I do (and probably better than me, too). The company I work for are a little dodgy, but males and females get paid the same wages, which I do like.

What do you think, Emerald?

It used to be pretty bad.. for example once upon a time it was legal to rape your wife. I think that sometimes we forget what it would be like if feminism hadn't come about because we didn't really have to experience it (although many still do). A person, male or female, should never have to be totally reliant on another person to live. Feminism for me doesn't say that a woman HAS to stay at home, it says that a woman can CHOOSE if she wants to stay at home or go to work. It provides choices and autonomy.

Just my thoughts :)
You're right that it used to be really bad. Men go to work, bitch about their wives, then come home and basically rape them if that's what they wanted. Or bash the crap out of them. I'd like to think that society has moved on from that, although rapes and domestic violence cases still persist.

I agree that it's up to the female if she wants to work or stay at home, and there should be no pigeon-holing. That is becoming more of a thing these days than it was, say, 100 years ago.

However, a man at work I talk to believes that inequality is now happening the other way - as in, women are getting the upper hand now. He uses the example of women-only gyms. If there was a men-only gym, women would protest. I see his point but I don't really agree. Anybody here agree?
 

PugofCrydee

You want to know how I got these scars?
It's supposed to defend equality between men and women, yet it's named after women. I think that that also sparks misunderstandings and all those negative points you mentioned.

A thing that bothers me on the ongoing feminist movement is that it disregards all the areas where women are privileged over men. I don't think all privileges should be taken down, but there should be a balance. It seems to me that this wave of feminism is only concerned about taking all privileges away from men, while women keep theirs.
Another thing is that even actual feminists think women should be privileged because men have been privileged until now. I consider my sister to be an actual feminist (she has studied a lot about this) and this is what she actually thinks. It makes it look like this whole thing is just payback. Why do I have to pay for what other men did in the past? It's like saying we should kill Germans now because "they" killed Jews 60 years ago.

Don't get me started on this new gender identification thing though, I find it ridiculous.

^^ couldn't agree more.
 
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