Life is what you make of it - agree or disagree

[KiaKaha]

perhaps this is at the root of your own dissatisfaction

i seem to remember you stating you were an atheist?

so perhaps you would agree that there is no intelligent design behind the universe

no god-mind writing a master plan for life to follow?

if there is no plan

no rulebook

then there is no "fair"

and no "unfair"

life just is what it is

any labels we choose to give it are entirely of our own creation

I understand what you are saying coyote... but I dont think of things in that way. I cant. I wish I could because you are right... my disatisfaction no doubt would disipate.

There is a philosophical argument that could be made here as to who we 'answer to' which could be a thread all on its own. I have heard that if you are an atheist then you are not accountable to anything... and therefore there are no rules for morality.

I can still tell the difference between what is fair and what is unfair despite my lack of religion.... and I guess it also all depends on what you find important in life. Everything... is subjective.

Equality is important to me, and I guess this is where the thread stems from. Arguments could be made depending on how one defines 'equality' too because I know that that word means different things to different people.

I could just be at peace and let things be as they are... but I have a drive inside myself to correct things in which I percieve as unfair. I realize that this may be my undoing and a personal demon. But I also believe that some good can come out of it also.

*dissipate - two s's

 

[coyote]

it's alot like driving a car

sure, there are traffic laws

and there are generally accepted "rules of the road" which would, should, could keep everyone safe and traffic moving efficiently if

if

if everyone followed them

but they don't

so even if YOU follow these rules

all of them

all the time

and even if everyone else "should" do the same

the reality is that they don't

and deciding whether or not that's fair or unfair

has little bearing on whether you get safely from point A to point B

you have to anticipate that every other driver you encounter will NOT follow the rules

they will speed, they will cut you off, they will stop suddenly for no apparent reason, they won't use their signals, they will blow through the stop sign

if you just assume that everyone will follow the rules like they should, you're sure to be involved in a motor vehicle accident

your failure to drive defensively is just as much responsible for a wreck occurring as the other driver's failure to adhere to the rules of the road

and you may even have to push the envelope yourself - if you want to get there on time

or you could just leave your car in the garage, go inside and have a sandwich

and stay at point A

 

[philly2bits]

I disagree because you are only half right. It should go "life is what we and the people in our lives make it."

I dare anyone to try and have a meaningful life without other people's help or support. I dare you! It can't be done. Isn't that the reason we are all on this site? Because we lack that support or help from other people. If the anxiety didn't cause any problems with people entering our lives, we'd have no reason to join. So to say that we make our own lives is incomplete.

 

[fitftw]

I think life just plans out according to itself, rather than the choices you believe yourself to be making...

Fatalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalism

Aristotle's Idle Argument:

If it is fated for you to recover from this illness, then you will recover whether you call a doctor or not.
Likewise, if you are fated not to recover, you will not do so whether you call a doctor or not.
But either it is fated that you will recover from this illness, or it is fated that you will not recover.
Therefore it is futile to consult a doctor.

Though the word “fatalism” is commonly used to refer to an attitude of resignation in the face of some future event or events which are thought to be inevitable, philosophers usually use the word to refer to the view that we are powerless to do anything other than what we actually do.[1] Included in this is that man has no power to influence the future, or indeed, his own actions.

 

[takethislife]

In general I agree.
BUT I'd say some people have to do incredibly much more than someone else in order to accomplish the same.

 

[SAM2011]

it's alot like driving a car

sure, there are traffic laws

and there are generally accepted "rules of the road" which would, should, could keep everyone safe and traffic moving efficiently if

if

if everyone followed them

but they don't

so even if YOU follow these rules

all of them

all the time

and even if everyone else "should" do the same

the reality is that they don't

and deciding whether or not that's fair or unfair

has little bearing on whether you get safely from point A to point B

you have to anticipate that every other driver you encounter will NOT follow the rules

they will speed, they will cut you off, they will stop suddenly for no apparent reason, they won't use their signals, they will blow through the stop sign

if you just assume that everyone will follow the rules like they should, you're sure to be involved in a motor vehicle accident

your failure to drive defensively is just as much responsible for a wreck occurring as the other driver's failure to adhere to the rules of the road

and you may even have to push the envelope yourself - if you want to get there on time

or you could just leave your car in the garage, go inside and have a sandwich

and stay at point A

I like what you say. I always enjoy your posts.

 

[da_illest101]

we tend to think that life owes us something but in reality it doesn't. we all live and die period, it doesn't matter if you lived 10 min 10 years or a 100 years. If you are lucky you can shape life in the way you want but there are stuff that you'll never be able to control. Look at Steve jobs for example, no matter how he controlled his life by being successful and rich, he couldn't control the disease he had.

That's why I'm depressed all the time, because I know no matter what I do, I'm still gonna do. One can argue that you shouldn't wait for death and live your life until death comes at you. Unfortunately, my brain is not wired that way. I'm waiting for death while wasting my life.. or parts of it

 

[SAM2011]

I just want to say that sometimes people just have it lucky and some people just have to try a bit harder in life. That's just life. Buts what is really important, being miserable wondering how unfair you life is, wasting away? I choose not to think like that and be happy and thankful for what I do have, your life can change in an instant and all could be gone. I know its hard to get out of that thought of thinking but its like what a person posted above that he knows a guy that's obese and the woman like him...why? Its because of his attitude. Attitude to me means a lot when it comes to me choosing who I like. Its not what is on the outside but their general attitude and well being. I choose people that have a positive, happy attitude and motivated etc (that does not mean I wont be their for them through their hard times, I always will be).
So I have to agree that life is what you make out of it. You choose how you want to live your life even though some things you can't control what happens in your life. I sometimes don't understand why people compare with each other, why?

 

[SAM2011]

we tend to think that life owes us something but in reality it doesn't. we all live and die period, it doesn't matter if you lived 10 min 10 years or a 100 years. If you are lucky you can shape life in the way you want but there are stuff that you'll never be able to control. Look at Steve jobs for example, no matter how he controlled his life by being successful and rich, he couldn't control the disease he had.

That's why I'm depressed all the time, because I know no matter what I do, I'm still gonna do. One can argue that you shouldn't wait for death and live your life until death comes at you. Unfortunately, my brain is not wired that way. I'm waiting for death while wasting my life.. or parts of it

"You are born with nothing and you die with nothing" No matter how much money you make and what assets you own, you will die without it.

So why bother living than?

I can understand that. But don't you want to be happy and enjoy what life does have to offer. There's either an afterlife or just death. If its just death, well once your dead that's it. Life is precious to me. I have a couple of kids. I can not imagine if something happened to them and I never got to cuddle/kiss them and feel their warmth again. I don't care if I don't have money. I just appreciate that one day I will die and that I'm thankful I am here. Its a gift to be born into life.

 

[KiaKaha]

I disagree because you are only half right. It should go "life is what we and the people in our lives make it."

I dare anyone to try and have a meaningful life without other people's help or support. I dare you! It can't be done. Isn't that the reason we are all on this site? Because we lack that support or help from other people. If the anxiety didn't cause any problems with people entering our lives, we'd have no reason to join. So to say that we make our own lives is incomplete.

Part of the reason I made this thread was because of your "likeability" thread a while back. I did make a few points that no one commented on and was wondering whether or not the to some degree we rely on other people to make something for ourselves...and whether or not that those people who are in a higher position can either hinder or help you based on personal prejudices, cultural factors and bias. I myself.... as I am sure its pretty obvious by now is that I do not agree that "life is what you make of it" at least not completely.

I will be the first to admit that I am not the most positive person and I know its not an attractive trait... yes it is about attitude and all that, but that still doesnt change the fact that somethings are fair and unfair... equal opportunites should be just for everybody... If everyone was complacent and just accepted the way things are then society wouldnt progress or move forward for the better... we would all be living in the dark ages. With all due respect I think the statement 'life is what you make of it' - to be a little naive.

Coyote, could you please explain your anology a little more - I always appreciate your point of view but I sometimes find the anologies a little cryptic.

I know these kinds of topics make people feel a little uncomfortable because there is an implication that other people are responsible for our lives which is not what I am saying. I am saying that as a society we all need to rely on each other to get by and that our position in life is influenced by many factors that we cannot control by way of how other people may percieve us. - Which in my opinion... is not necessarily just.

 

[da_illest101]

"You are born with nothing and you die with nothing" No matter how much money you make and what assets you own, you will die without it.

So why bother living than?

I can understand that. But don't you want to be happy and enjoy what life does have to offer. There's either an afterlife or just death. If its just death, well once your dead that's it. Life is precious to me. I have a couple of kids. I can not imagine if something happened to them and I never got to cuddle/kiss them and feel their warmth again. I don't care if I don't have money. I just appreciate that one day I will die and that I'm thankful I am here. Its a gift to be born into life.

I agree with you that life is precious, but that's if you have a reason to live for. You do, I don't. I'm just someone who doesn't find anything exciting or care about much any more, it's been like that for the past 4 years.

 

[Richey]

I don't think its as simple as life is what you make it of it, its a bit more complex then that. I can tell you that good inhereted genes, luck, environment growing up, family, your personality, direction, interests, all this can help a damn lot. People DO have massive advantages over other people, that cannot be denied. Something i've concluded through observations over the years. Belief helps.

 

[SAM2011]

I agree with you that life is precious, but that's if you have a reason to live for. You do, I don't. I'm just someone who doesn't find anything exciting or care about much any more, it's been like that for the past 4 years.

Aww

I hope that one day something, someone comes along and makes you want to live again. There's always hope and hopefully something good will come your way. I honestly hope the best for you.

 

[SAM2011]

I don't think its as simple as life is what you make it of it, its a bit more complex then that. I can tell you that good inhereted genes, luck, environment growing up, family, your personality, direction, interests, all this can help a damn lot. People DO have massive advantages over other people, that cannot be denied. Something i've concluded through observations over the years. Belief helps.

Some people just have it lucky don't they. With all this misery with the world being unfair....what now? How do we fix it? Do we live in misery because its unfair?

 

[MikeyC]

I don't think its as simple as life is what you make it of it, its a bit more complex then that. I can tell you that good inhereted genes, luck, environment growing up, family, your personality, direction, interests, all this can help a damn lot. People DO have massive advantages over other people, that cannot be denied. Something i've concluded through observations over the years. Belief helps.

Life is inherently unfair and some people will pick the short sticks, while others are blessed with the longer ones. There's never a balance. It something I have trouble coming to terms with, even though that's the state of the world.

 

[irish_bob]

OK, I realize a question like that will not have a black and white answer to it.... but what do you think? Do you think a persons position in life is a direct result of their own actions, or do you think that there are factors beyond anyones control that can shape how a persons life is...

Most likely its a bit of both. Naturally nothing will come of your life if you dont do anything with it... nor if you refuse to play by the rules.

Does anyone think that factors like, charisma, appearance, prejudice, discrimination, social class, cultural background, personal aptitude, talent and luck shape and determine (to a certain degree) just how fair things will be for someones life...?

I have seen first hand just how incredibly quickly people can fall given the right circumstances and series of events... through no fault of their own. It really is quite remarkable.

Opinions?

no one can be successfull in life without a decent amount of luck , many successfull people smugly proclaim that you make your own luck but this is the stupidest cliche of them all

if you made your own luck , it wouldnt be luck , merley good descision making , luck as defined by websters dictionary is when good fortune comes your way without you having done anything to deserve it , by contrast , bad luck is misfortune coming your way without you having done anything to deserve it

if someone has thier dreams of becoming a surgeon or a tennis player shattered by having been knocked off thier bicycle by a drunk motorist which renders them disabled , they had no say in thier future

if someone goes to work for a firm and their boss is a nazi who causes them to have a complete mental breakdown which ruins thier confidence indefinatley and causes them to loose thier career , they had no say in thier future

life is not black and white , not everyone who fails to achieve thier dreams is a born loser who was lazy , random events and occurences influence what direction our lives take

im not religous but im honestly not entirely convinced that free will exists in an absolute sense , i dont know if the universe or a god intervenes but i dont fully believe in self determination

 

[irish_bob]

Both.

No one chooses to suffer motor neuron disease, or have their spouse walk out on them, or even be born with AvPD. No one chooses to have their life limited by restricted access to education, or discriminatory hiring practices, or not knowing the right people.

But we do get to choose how we respond to those realities. We do get to live within them.

while i agree that we do get to choose how we respond to events , people are not machines , if a person if brutally raped or asaulted , it cannot but change them , even they get over it , they have to become harder and colder in order to move on , this means that person is being forced to change from what they originally were as a person , they have been stripped of a choice and are being forced to settle for second best

 

[irish_bob]

perhaps this is at the root of your own dissatisfaction

i seem to remember you stating you were an atheist?

so perhaps you would agree that there is no intelligent design behind the universe

no god-mind writing a master plan for life to follow?

if there is no plan

no rulebook

then there is no "fair"

and no "unfair"

life just is what it is

any labels we choose to give it are entirely of our own creation

one thing us athiests find annoying is when believers who are successfull try and credit god for their success , the arrogance of this is truly asstounding , what it is effectivley saying is that I who won and oscar , became president , won a marathon , im favoured by the creator of everything for special privelege , my winning a grammy is more important than the child in africa who,s only want is three square meals per day

 

[sullyS25]

one thing us athiests find annoying is when believers who are successfull try and credit god for their success , the arrogance of this is truly asstounding , what it is effectivley saying is that I who won and oscar , became president , won a marathon , im favoured by the creator of everything for special privelege , my winning a grammy is more important than the child in africa who,s only want is three square meals per day

I don't think that is what they are saying at all.

 

[coyote]

Coyote, could you please explain your anology a little more - I always appreciate your point of view but I sometimes find the anologies a little cryptic.

so let's say that, in the beginning, everyone is given a car to drive and then set off down the road of life.

not everyone is given the same car to drive:

Dave is given a 1995 Ford Focus
Drew is given a 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO

is this fair? unfair?

neither car is going anywhere on it's own - it's up to the driver to get it there

both have four wheels and an engine - sure, the Ferrari might be faster, and turn a few more heads as it goes by, but the Ford has A/C and a CD player and the gas mileage is alot better.

there's always a trade off - who is to say which is "better?"

besides, who says the objective is to get to the end of the road quickest?

this isn't a race, after all

now during much of his journey, it's just Dave and the open road

there will be a few twists and turns

he will come to a few forks in the road and will get to choose which path to take

there might be a stop sign that impedes his progress - momentarily

he may even encounter an occasional crossroad and have decide whether to continue in the same direction or change course entirely

hopefully there are enough signs posted to make these decisions easier

some drivers may stop and pick up a map, some may invest in a GPS, some simply rely on other people to give them directions

at certain points along the way, Dave will encounter other drivers on the road

there are traffic laws that tell everyone how to operate their vehicles, and there are commonly agreed upon rules of the road that are meant to keep everyone safe and traffic flowing efficiently if everyone follows them.

but no matter how good a driver Dave is, he's going to come across other drivers who don't follow the rules

if he wants to stay safe and not get in an accident, Dave has to drive defensively. he has to anticipate that every other driver may do something stupid and be ready to react.

other drivers will speed, tailgate, drive too slowly, cut Dave off, etc....

now, he can get frustrated, angry, mutter under his breath, wag his finger imperiously, pound his fist on the wheel, and scream at the unfairness

but, is that really helping him get to where he's trying to go?

or is it just making the whole drive unpleasant?

he could just relax, turn up the CD player, merge safely into traffic, and enjoy the scenery

he could also pull over to the side of the road and let everyone else go past - and only venture out when he felt safe

really, it's his choice

and it does little good to blame the other drivers

they're going to do what they choose to do

and where they wind up is as much their choice as it is for Dave