I have never had a girlfriend in my life

[A friend]

Losing my virginity isn't important enough to start using practice women.

That is how it is with me as well.

Like I told a close friend, sex isn't really the deal

An idea that I support.

If what was considered normal was to wait until marriage, then the issue would never cross my mind. But paying for it or using girls with low self esteem as practice would probably put me in the category of being abusive and I have enough mistakes to regret without that.

Though regretting things isn't really that good, the fact that you are against being abusive gives out signs that you are a good person.

Besides, if I were to die tomorrow, none of this **** would matter anyways.

Dying is never good, but the fact that you are not willing to put all of your energy and all of your thoughts into complete trivialities is one good path to happiness.

Never focus on what you can't possibly have. If you want something badly that you can actually have, I suggest that you focus your energy into that.

 

[Feathers]

Agreed 100% I think most of us guys on here are not virgins because we're "waiting for someone special".

Oh gosh, it's a social anxiety site, so we kinda understand that THAT's at least part of the problem. And that many people here may have some social skills deficits, to say mildly. But huh??

Maybe it's true about some/many/most guys here, but I HOPE not for everyone!! And it's definitely not true for (at least some) girls. Like others have said, if you are reasonably attractive/good-looking (which most people here are) and well-groomed, there are A LOT of chances for meaningless sex everywhere, yikes!! (Websites, drunken parties/clubs/late night bars etc yikes...)

I personally don't attach any importance to the first time and don't care too much who it's with.

Hm, since girls like to feel special maybe that's at least part of your problem too??
You're thinking about some random understanding girl - where do they make those and in which shop do they sell them?? Yikes!! Such chauvinistic view, sorry!!

Partly it's good that you don't put too much pressure on yourself about this. But partly - huh, seriously?? You don't care if she's a bitch with stds or nasty relatives who would beat you up if you mess up with her? (Or drag you to court or make you marry her if she gets pregnant and then continue to borrow money from you and never return it etc?)
/Sorry if this is partly not helpful, but I want you to THINK before you say or think such things?? There are LOTS of people out there and - please have some self-respect??/

I do think that some people are maybe single because of maybe 'too high standards' but it's good to at least have SOME standards!!

If you're just 'after any girl' a girl can sense that - and she's not interested!! (Except if she's drunk at a party and/or trying to get over someone, or just into casual things too, or looking for a 'practice' boy, or a few??)

I'd like to get to know the girl first only for the sake of having someone who understands me so I don't have to be so embarrassed about my obvious inexperience.

So other aspects don't matter? She can have any political views or worldviews, kill puppies in her free time, she just has to be understanding when it comes to sex? huh?
(Or am I missing something? )

Many us are more than just sexually inexperienced, we're inexperienced with all aspects of a relationship.

I think that's probably true for many/most people here AND ELSEWHERE!!

A friend of mine who has had MANY boyfriends and was married and divorced and knows how to get men interested etc is one of the most CLUELESS people when it comes to staying in a relationship. It just doesn't last long - since there are so many divorces worldwide, we're free to assume many other people ARE clueless too!! Even those who had some/much experience as teenagers etc.

Even if the girl was accepting of inexperience, that same inexperience would prevent the relationship from starting in the first place, because we didn't learn how relationships work when we were teenagers like everyone else did.

Yeah, there are SOME things that you can learn by being in a relationship - eg how to communicate or solve conflicts or come to mutual understanding, people are different though, and what one person really liked, another person may not like at all!!

So it's much more important to be understanding and attentive and see what the person likes and you can practice the 'general' skills (like cooking, win-win problemsolving and conflict resolution, communication etc) with friends/co-workers/flatmates/family...

Or yeah, even with a'practice' girl - though it's only fair if she knows she's a 'practice' girl yikes... and agrees you're just a 'practice guy' too... And even then, some guys may end up marrying lol, just because they might see they're a good fit and maybe they're so damn understanding... (things can go from casual to committed, or vice versa...) or if the girl gets pregnant and it may be seen as 'the right thing to do' etc. So yeah, it is a bit important who you get involved with, don't fool yourself it isn't... It may be MORE important for girls because you can end up with a 9-month 'bun in the oven' but guys can be stuck with a lifetime of child support so it's a bit important too...??

Sorry if this is harsh, it's just that some people here may seem to live in 'clouds' and not reality? Sex is not just a 'luxury' or 'privilege', or like 'WIN' in a game, it is also a responsibility! And you need to ask yourself if you and your partner are mature enough to handle any responsibility that might come from it too!!

Do you like that person enough to maybe have a 'Mini-Me' with or hold her hand through abortion (would she and you even be willing to have one, are your views on this the same? Also mind that some women can't have a baby later in life after having abortion...) Could you support a family if you start one? (Yeah some people live on welfare support, are you willing for you and your kids to do that?)

If not, you have some other things to focus on first, like career/work etc.

It's good to GET TO KNOW girls meanwhile, not necessarily to sleep or 'practice' 'house' with, but to make friends, get to know each other... How do you expect girls to like you and be understanding if you don't know them as a person first? Maybe it's good to start looking at girls as 'possible friend (or maybe more) and not just as 'de-virginator' and 'destroyer of single-man-stigma' huh?? But as a human being with interests, opinions, wishes and dreams and feelings instead.

 

[userremoved]

Like others have said, if you are reasonably attractive/good-looking (which most people here are) and well-groomed, there are A LOT of chances for meaningless sex everywhere, yikes!! (Websites, drunken parties/clubs/late night bars etc yikes...)

Its not the same with guys. Im not gonna be just chilling somewhere and have girls waltz up on me and try to get me out of my pants. So no amount of peer pressure will get a socially phobic man laid. Period

^Right there. Why on earth wont the girls on this site believe me when I say this? Do you regularly hit on quiet guys?

 

[Feathers]

Ybut it stopped,because the people who did that were fired,for other reasons.

I guess that tells a lot about these kind of people, huh??
Some guys may be lacking in other areas and may brag with their 'ladies skills' instead, to make up for deficits elsewhere... Also, they would probably find another thing to torture you or tease or put you down about, if you were 'above' them in eg work skills or more respected by the boss etc. (clearly, you seem to still have a job so you must've been doing something right??)

Some people can think that people who are not 'promiscuous' or 'don't tell about their conquests' may be holding themselves 'above them'... (even if they're just really shy) so it can be some sort of 'self-defense', or trying to 'bring you down to their level'...

Hollywood stars and normal girls appreciate the 'don't kiss and tell' policies...

You could have been also very religious or just well-brought up and thing is maybe they were just guessing - these kind of people like to 'tease' until they find something someone else might be sensitive about, and then they 'go for it'... or it was their badly rehearsed way of trying to get you to 'go for it' (for a girl) and weird macho way of encouragement??

Sorry you had to go through that, sounds just like that movie, 40-year old virgin... (That movie was kinda scary lol.. Though he ended up with a really NICE woman!!)

So, fingers crossed you find a nice girl too!!

 

[Felgen]

In my honest opinion, the guys who tend to make fun of virgins are guys who barely get laid themselves and think that they're drop dead sexy just because they lost their virginity.

 

[userremoved]

So no one can answer my question?

 

[userremoved]

The reason I make a deal out of this point is because when people come out and say stuff like that it comes across as very unsympathetic and it doesn't make the person feel any better about the situation. That would be like me responding to a girl with weight issues "what? You're over weight?! Buy and exercise bike, go for a run. Its that simple." Or to the one with daddy issues "You're having problems with your old man? Pick up the phone and call him. You have a phone dont you? Its that easy really." Or what about those that want love. "Theres tons of guys that are looking to love someone. Just get out there and grab one and make him love you, its not that hard." If people want to help, at least give some advice that doesnt make the individual feel stupid before you try to life them up. If not then dont say anything because youre not helping.

 

[Feathers]

^Right there. Why on earth wont the girls on this site believe me when I say this? Do you regularly hit on quiet guys?

hm, Pips, what I wrote wasn't really targeted at you - clearly you know how to at least speak to women/girls... and you seem like someone who respects women... and not sure if this was targeted at me - what I meant was if a guy has NO STANDARDS and just wants to 'get laid', there are websites where eg couples or bored housewives may be looking for a 'third man' or yeah, I've seen girls hit on guys too... Maybe you never lived in a student dorm or went to lively clubs/bars or parties?? (after a certain hour it can be an 'all goes' zone and people can be way less discriminate...) Also, maybe girls have hit on you too and you never realized it?? (I'd be surprised if they haven't!)

It seems like the guy I was replying to was like 'just get me some random woman' - and it's easy to get 'some random woman'...(!!) You just gotta know where/when to look lol... and be a tiny amount brave (or drunk) enough to speak to her/them! Some women may be so desperate (or drunk) they would go out with any random guy who'd show a tiny amount of kindness yup..

There are lots of books/websites and even TV shows that teach guys 'pick up skills', some can be quite chauvinistic too - they teach 'go for quantity' to lose fear of speaking to girls too... which in itself is okay, but 'go for quantity' in sex life can be more problematic, if it doesn't teach them respect for women too...

I know it's not easy for shy guys... CBT and other approaches teach to 'expand comfort zone', so yeah, talking to girls you sit with is great, maybe you can expand that to other people in class or ask those or other girls (and guy/s) for a cup of coffee or anything 'harmless' that could mean either friendship or more...?

PS If she's shy and looks down or away when she meets you it could be she could have a crush on you too!! haha (That's for someone else who wrote that!!)

 

[userremoved]

hm, Pips, what I wrote wasn't really targeted at you - clearly you know how to at least speak to women/girls... and you seem like someone who respects women... and not sure if this was targeted at me - what I meant was if a guy has NO STANDARDS and just wants to 'get laid', there are websites where eg couples or bored housewives may be looking for a 'third man' or yeah, I've seen girls hit on guys too... Maybe you never lived in a student dorm or went to lively clubs/bars or parties?? (after a certain hour it can be an 'all goes' zone and people can be way less discriminate...) Also, maybe girls have hit on you too and you never realized it?? (I'd be surprised if they haven't!)

It seems like the guy I was replying to was like 'just get me some random woman' - and it's easy to get 'some random woman'...(!!) You just gotta know where/when to look lol... and be a tiny amount brave (or drunk) enough to speak to her/them! Some women may be so desperate (or drunk) they would go out with any random guy who'd show a tiny amount of kindness yup..

There are lots of books/websites and even TV shows that teach guys 'pick up skills', some can be quite chauvinistic too - they teach 'go for quantity' to lose fear of speaking to girls too... which in itself is okay, but 'go for quantity' in sex life can be more problematic, if it doesn't teach them respect for women too...

I know it's not easy for shy guys... CBT and other approaches teach to 'expand comfort zone', so yeah, talking to girls you sit with is great, maybe you can expand that to other people in class or ask those or other girls (and guy/s) for a cup of coffee or anything 'harmless' that could mean either friendship or more...?

PS If she's shy and looks down or away when she meets you it could be she could have a crush on you too!! haha (That's for someone else who wrote that!!)

Well I figured because he was agreeing with me. Plus I've only been hit on once. And Ive been to quite a few parties. Though I was in the military and living in those dorms so maybe that was different, I dunno.

Im not as good at talking to women as you might think. I can talk on a professional level but once it gets to anything personal Im lost. Plus my online me is a lot different than the real life me. Sorry if I took offense, its just that this is so unbelievable frustrating and I get the feeling that a lot of people are like "what the big deal?!" Anyways Im not gonna say anything else on the matter of relationships. Its pointless anyways

 

[Felgen]

Try overcoming most of your anxiety related issues before buying into any PUA crap. I didn't loose most of my anxiety after I lost my virginity--I lost most of my anxiety before. What most people with social anxiety don't realize, is that getting rid of SA is a long process; it doesn't happen over night and you won't see results immediately.

Also, if you want an advantage over other men, try looking as good as possible. It's not as hard as everyone makes it out to be. I used to be chubby and ungroomed; now I'm down to 7% bodyfat and I get complimented on my looks all the time.

 

[Kiwong]

Crikey. This relationship stuff is so complicated. It makes me feel unwell just reading about it. I think my life is better now I don't think about this stuff as much anymore.

 

[Feathers]

Well I figured because he was agreeing with me. Plus I've only been hit on once. And Ive been to quite a few parties. Though I was in the military and living in those dorms so maybe that was different, I dunno.

Im not as good at talking to women as you might think. I can talk on a professional level but once it gets to anything personal Im lost. Plus my online me is a lot different than the real life me. Sorry if I took offense, its just that this is so unbelievable frustrating and I get the feeling that a lot of people are like "what the big deal?!" Anyways Im not gonna say anything else on the matter of relationships. Its pointless anyways

Pips, what I wrote in reply to Megalon had nothing to do with you. I actually agree that it can be not-so-easy for the shy/nice guy... And I understand it can be frustrating... Some guys out there can show some weird ideas about women though. And the attitude can be part of the problem, that's what I wanted to say.
What really bothered me was this part (highlighted):

I personally don't attach any importance to the first time and don't care too much who it's with.

I don't like it if people seem to view women as 'sources of sex/experience/relationship expertise' vs. as independent humans. Such attitude can be seen in many men (especially young ones), I just didn't expect it on this forum.
For all I know Megalon can be a really nice guy too, and just maybe didn't express himself so well, or maybe I misread something into his post.

You seem to do just fine talking to women And you're brave to discuss personal things too - apparently women are comfortable with you to tell you personal stuff too!!

I agree with Felgen that overcoming sa/anxiety is good, there's no magic wand and this is a process... It's important also to just accept yourself and start liking yourself: you're a great guy, you got a lot to offer to a woman - you're a great catch!!

The PUA stuff/gurus can be quite demeaning to women. Some stuff out there actually 'works' (I've seen it work), if only it came without the part where they trash women hmm... There's a book for 'Nice guys' and dating out there, just seen the title on amazon I think... (no idea what's in there)

We've had discussions before on the forum on whether it's worse for guys or girls with sa, and there are + and - for being both/either.
Try being a shy girl with a crush on a shy guy. (While non-shy drunk guys may keep hitting on her.) If he stands by the wall all evening/event instead of asking you to dance/chat he could a) have a gf b) be gay c) not interested d) etc. LOTS of girls have really low self-esteem (due to all fashion magazines etc) and just assume the guy is not interested (or taken). Or we just convince ourselves we wouldn't be compatible with the guy anyway, due to any number of factors.

So actually by talking to a girl you are giving her the gift of your attention and maybe-friendship or more - even if she may not be 'interested' it will likely make her day if you're smart about it (and not too obvious) and maybe she may have a super-cool cute friend who she can introduce you to!!
Even girls who may seem super-confident may be insecure inside... The bitchy ones, well you can just avoid those next time, or there are techniques on how to deal with those too... (sometimes they are the most insecure/unhappy ones... or may turn out allright once you get to know them)

I've never been in the military so I don't know about that. I expect it'd be different than student dorms though. (Probably more structure and 'order' and hierarchy and maybe more conservative/traditional people and behaviors in the army?) I'm surprised you've only been hit on once! (Maybe you didn't see it? )
If you survived the army you can learn to be friends and more with women too!!

 

[Feathers]

Okay guys, out of curiosity I googled and found this: Nice Girls Nice Guys Relationship Advice and Dating Tips (I am in no way connected with the site, just found it)
I don't agree with everything written there, a lot of it makes sense though...

 

[Remus]

Okay guys, out of curiosity I googled and found this: Nice Girls Nice Guys Relationship Advice and Dating Tips (I am in no way connected with the site, just found it)
I don't agree with everything written there, a lot of it makes sense though...

Haha Dr.Googling again!

trouble with googling is it spews up generic advice which dosn't always fit the needs of the searcher

If it was me, I'd listen to anything Coyote has to say on the matter.

 

[Feathers]

Haha Dr.Googling again!

trouble with googling is it spews up generic advice which dosn't always fit the needs of the searcher

If it was me, I'd listen to anything Coyote has to say on the matter.

LOL I was thinking to tell the guys to listen to Coyote too
(Not to 'everything' he says, but he has the part about meeting women, teasing and chatting quite right... Isn't that somewhere in this thread, or a similar one?)

I've read some of the advice on the site, before I posted the link, a lot of it does make sense - and I've seen it work in real life... eg trying to find common interests/things in common in conversation etc.

I like it how the site tells people to focus on 'chat' and 'get to know the person' and not just 'flirting'... And they seem to back it up with research.. (though if anyone wanted to take it seriously, it would probably be good to double-check it)

The pick up lines there seem way more normal than anything in the 'pick up lines' spw thread (and actually wouldn't cause most girls to run away screaming, imho. except maybe the ones to use in gym, but then again I'd probably run away screaming from a gym too...)

If people might have specific questions or needs after reading any of that, they can still ask here or elsewhere?

 

[DeadmanWalking]

Haha Dr.Googling again!

trouble with googling is it spews up generic advice which dosn't always fit the needs of the searcher

If it was me, I'd listen to anything Coyote has to say on the matter.

Ahh, Coyote. He's a man's man, especially for us social phobia males. He's been there, done that and got one of those stupid t-shirts for it. All joking aside though, he does seem to understand the basic "rules" of courtship and dating, so, yes, he is a good source of knowledge on the subject.

 

[userremoved]

I never really wanted advice. I just wanted someone to understand me.

Heck, that in itself makes me feel a lot better than people trying to help fix me. I for the most part already know what I need to do. Its just not that easy to get it done

 

[Feathers]

hmm, I think the whole forum understands, most here have been through this at one point or another...
There's a time to look for answers/improvement, and a time to just 'sing the blues'... and y'all are perfectly okay to do that too...

It's good to look at those who managed to 'survive' this and prosper... (like Coyote ) personally, I found the site posted above helpful (it made me realize some of the things I have been doing 'wrong' that might have been misinterpreted by others!!) Girls don't automatically get born with all this knowledge either... so there can of course be misunderstandings...

I totally understand that knowing something and doing it are two different things, sometimes looking at some things from a different way can help though... It's not about 'fixin' anyone, it's about learning about these things together... (okay I'll shut up now lol)

 

[megalon]

Hm, since girls like to feel special maybe that's at least part of your problem too??
You're thinking about some random understanding girl - where do they make those and in which shop do they sell them?? Yikes!! Such chauvinistic view, sorry!!

Partly it's good that you don't put too much pressure on yourself about this. But partly - huh, seriously?? You don't care if she's a bitch with stds or nasty relatives who would beat you up if you mess up with her? (Or drag you to court or make you marry her if she gets pregnant and then continue to borrow money from you and never return it etc?)
/Sorry if this is partly not helpful, but I want you to THINK before you say or think such things?? There are LOTS of people out there and - please have some self-respect??/

I do think that some people are maybe single because of maybe 'too high standards' but it's good to at least have SOME standards!!

If you're just 'after any girl' a girl can sense that - and she's not interested!! (Except if she's drunk at a party and/or trying to get over someone, or just into casual things too, or looking for a 'practice' boy, or a few??)


So other aspects don't matter? She can have any political views or worldviews, kill puppies in her free time, she just has to be understanding when it comes to sex? huh?
(Or am I missing something? )

Sorry if this is harsh, it's just that some people here may seem to live in 'clouds' and not reality? Sex is not just a 'luxury' or 'privilege', or like 'WIN' in a game, it is also a responsibility! And you need to ask yourself if you and your partner are mature enough to handle any responsibility that might come from it too!!

Do you like that person enough to maybe have a 'Mini-Me' with or hold her hand through abortion (would she and you even be willing to have one, are your views on this the same? Also mind that some women can't have a baby later in life after having abortion...) Could you support a family if you start one? (Yeah some people live on welfare support, are you willing for you and your kids to do that?)

If not, you have some other things to focus on first, like career/work etc.

It's good to GET TO KNOW girls meanwhile, not necessarily to sleep or 'practice' 'house' with, but to make friends, get to know each other... How do you expect girls to like you and be understanding if you don't know them as a person first? Maybe it's good to start looking at girls as 'possible friend (or maybe more) and not just as 'de-virginator' and 'destroyer of single-man-stigma' huh?? But as a human being with interests, opinions, wishes and dreams and feelings instead.

It doesn't sound good reading it back, maybe I was in a bad frame of mind or something. I wasn't saying it's unimportant and just "any girl" will do. I was just saying I don't think the first time is more important than any other time. Certainly every time is important, but I think people put too much importance on the first time. I'm much more eager to find someone to love. I want to find a girl who loves me and I love in return, sex comes secondary to that. I would have to get to know said girl before sex was ever an option. Same for the first time, same for every time. I respect women, I'm not chauvinist, and I have zero interest in meaningless sex. I'm the one of the nicest guys anyone could ever meet, won't ever meet. I'm sorry I posted anything in this thread that might have offended anyone. For the record, it's all irrelevant because I'm never going to find someone for me. I can't talk to girls in real life, and online I get anxious about even visiting a girls profile on a dating site, let alone sending a message. I hope this thread fades away because I feel like I have thoroughly made an ass of myself here.

 

[spect01]

Um, okay, guys? First, if you haven't had your first girlfriend when you're 12 or 13, the ladies are going to want you less than the stuff found in garbage dumpsters that are filled with black mold.

(I can't reply to all of these quotes at the moment, but I'll give a general statement)

I'm not going to change how I feel about this. Women having all the choice and power is pretty obvious.