I am so depressed

[Miserum]

Stop the unnecessary worrying. It's killing your energy, your productivity, your happiness, your relationships, and your ability to remain present.

 

[Jungle]

Fear of being ruined through retaliation.

I think what holds me back from being honest or saying what's really on my mind a lot of the time is a fear of consequences from others that may cause me some kind of injury. Fear of either rejection, and a lot of the time, fear of retaliation. Fear that somehow, my life, my body, my sanity, will be easily ruined by others (which is kind of funny considering that I think my life is pretty much a steaming pile of shit to begin with).

This idea, that I will be "ruined," is largely rooted in other people's experiences, or in fictionalized scenarios (i.e., through books or other stories). But I don't think I've ever been fucked over personally for being "mean" or speaking my mind to someone. I don't think I've ever even tried to speak my mind in most cases, out of fear of retaliation. So my fear is actually largely baseless, personally speaking.

I'd say this fear is a major contributor to my overall anxiety and aversion to the outside world; if I don't feel like I can defend myself, verbally or physically, after speaking up when I've been wronged, why would I ever want to go outside and interact with people?

I get where you're coming from — others taking an honest opinion too personally even if your intentions are in no way rude or judgemental. It feels like there is an unrealistic etiquette to abide by to seem "normal", even if it involves white lies.

Technically, those who'd have it in for you could retaliate in a sneaky and inconspicuous way. If I knew you and held a strong grudge against you, only my sense of ethics would prevent me from using your publicly available picture to steal your identity and ruin your online reputation. You can't know how evil people may be. Not having any guarantees is what induces such fears and negative scenarios.

Giving an honest but constructively criticising review of a restaurant, for example, gives you no guarantee that the owner wouldn't secretly spit in your beverage – or even worse – the next time you frequent it. Not foreseeing people's reaction justifies such misgivings, regardless of how noble your intentions might be. Everyone is human, a bloated sense of pride may make integrity-lacking people act underhandedly.

This is what conditions some people to not mean what they say and don't say what they mean, as if there were an unofficial code of conduct to follow: pretend that a poor situation is okay or risk being given an even worse one the next time you complain about it.

 

[Miserum]

I get where you're coming from — others taking an honest opinion too personally even if your intentions are in no way rude or judgemental. It feels like there is an unrealistic etiquette to abide by to seem "normal", even if it involves white lies.

Technically, those who'd have it in for you could retaliate in a sneaky and inconspicuous way. If I knew you and held a strong grudge against you, only my sense of ethics would prevent me from using your publicly available picture to steal your identity and ruin your online reputation. You can't know how evil people may be. Not having any guarantees is what induces such fears and negative scenarios.

Giving an honest but constructively criticising review of a restaurant, for example, gives you no guarantee that the owner wouldn't secretly spit in your beverage – or even worse – the next time you frequent it. Not foreseeing people's reaction justifies such misgivings, regardless of how noble your intentions might be. Everyone is human, a bloated sense of pride may make integrity-lacking people act underhandedly.

This is what conditions some people to not mean what they say and don't say what they mean, as if there were an unofficial code of conduct to follow: pretend that a poor situation is okay or risk being given an even worse one the next time you complain about it.

Thanks for your words, Jungle. I appreciate them.

 

[Miserum]

Often I am upset
That I cannot fall in love
But I guess
This avoids the stress of falling out of it

Are you, you tired of me yet?
I'm a little sick right now, but I swear
When I'm ready I will fly us out of here

Cut, cut hair, leave
Cut my hair
Cut, cut hair
Strangely he feels at home in this
Strangely he feels at home in this

Often I am upset
That I cannot fall in love
But I guess
This avoids the stress of falling out of it

Are you, you tired of me yet?…

 

[grapevine]

Your not alone, i can relate

 

[Miserum]

Old signature full of sayings I find meaning in:


++++ Care about people's approval and you will be their prisoner. ++++ Breathe, Listen, Pause-T.H.I.N.K.-Play ++++ grit - courage and resolve; strength of character ++++ On the path to greatness an excess of repetition and boredom is unavoidable. ++++ Do not overthink. ++++ To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing. ++++ Real peace is not just the absence of conflict; it's the presence of justice. ++++ Sucking at something is the first step towards being sorta good at something. ++++ Do not be consumed by anything but learning. ++++ Humor is not planned. It's spontaneous (Post #122).

If you're going to do something, commit 100% to it, because you're doing it anyway. Attack everything you do. ++++ You train people how to treat you. ++++ On the other side of suffering... is greatness. ++++ Live in the grip of life. ++++ If it doesn't challenge you, it won't change you. ++++ If it scares the absolute shit out of you, and it hurts to do, but you're doing it anyway... you're growing. ++++ If you're suffering through hard work and think you probably can't endure any more, you're probably only using 40% of your full capacity.

To make a sword, you have to put it through fire and you have to beat the fucking shit out of it. Repeatedly. You have to beat. the living. shit out of it. And so my mindset, started to become that... and I realized that nothing hard comes from soft.

Get after it.

 

[Miserum]

It's a drain trying to figure out something good to say when you have nothing to say. That pretty much embodies all of my interactions.

 

[lily]

It's a drain trying to figure out something good to say when you have nothing to say. That pretty much embodies all of my interactions.

aw, I feel for you. Try not to think of something 'good' to say, try to just talk what's on your mind and which others can connect to and respond. Ppl just like to talk even if it's anything, there are people who would appreciate you

 

[Miserum]

aw, I feel for you. Try not to think of something 'good' to say, try to just talk what's on your mind and which others can connect to and respond. Ppl just like to talk even if it's anything, there are people who would appreciate you

I wish I could do this, and sometimes I can. Most of the time though, spontaneous conversation just leaves me feeling inadequate. Someone inevitably tries to one-up me, puts me down for being too silly, too boring, too serious, too ignorant... too... whatever the fuck ever. It depends on the person. Most people tend to be insensitive, unthinking fuck-wits in my experience. That or they are scheming toward some selfish end goal, which forces them to behave the way they do.

 

[lily]

I wish I could do this, and sometimes I can. Most of the time though, spontaneous conversation just leaves me feeling inadequate. Someone inevitably tries to one-up me, puts me down for being too silly, too boring, too serious, too ignorant... too... whatever the fuck ever. It depends on the person. Most people tend to be insensitive, unthinking fuck-wits in my experience. That or they are scheming toward some selfish end goal, which forces them to behave the way they do.

that's odd, r u sure everyone does that? ...just wondering 'cause I take the advice I had given you and have no problems. Sometimes people will say you're silly but they mean it in a good way, sorry for the negative things that happened to you though.

I'd find it rude if someone is always saying you're boring, not to mention arrogant.

 

[Miserum]

that's odd, r u sure everyone does that? ...just wondering 'cause I take the advice I had given you and have no problems. Sometimes people will say you're silly but they mean it in a good way, sorry for the negative things that happened to you though

I think these negative events have happened often enough in my life that I can now see them a mile off. But... perhaps I am looking for them, and so maybe see things that aren't really there. Or I am blowing things out of proportion. It's extremely difficult to look at my own perspective objectively.

I think you give good advice though, Lily. I'll try to keep it in mind. Thanks.

 

[lily]

I think these negative events have happened often enough in my life that I can now see them a mile off. But... perhaps I am looking for them, and so maybe see things that aren't really there. Or I am blowing things out of proportion. It's extremely difficult to look at my own perspective objectively.

I think you give good advice though, Lily. I'll try to keep it in mind. Thanks.

thank you

 

[Miserum]

that's odd, r u sure everyone does that? ...just wondering 'cause I take the advice I had given you and have no problems.

I went into a conversation today with the intention of connecting and talking about things people would relate to, not with the intention of finding something "good" to say, and it went well.

I was just reflecting on your advice and this thought crossed my mind: what kind of problems do you face personally with social anxiety if, as you say, you have "no problems" through taking your own advice? And how do you know your own advice is working for you?

I don't mean to ask those questions in a judgmental way. I'd just like to understand your perspective better.

 

[Phoenixx]

I think these negative events have happened often enough in my life that I can now see them a mile off. But... perhaps I am looking for them, and so maybe see things that aren't really there. Or I am blowing things out of proportion. It's extremely difficult to look at my own perspective objectively.

It has been extremely difficult the past few years to get myself to change my way of thinking and how I "see" people when communicating. I know exactly what you mean thinking most people are "insensitive". I thought that way for a long time too -- hell, I still kind of do, but I don't think I'm as negative as I used to be. I am very much an intuitive person and I have really been teaching myself over the last few years to actually just listen to my gut and use my eyes, rather than my incompetent anxiety-riddled brain, to perceive how conversations are going and how people are responding. It's not easy, I still have trouble sometimes, especially in brand new situations with new people and new environments I'm not familiar with.

It has also taken a lot of time being with the right people to understand how those who are generally kind to learn how to healthily communicate as well. As much as us social phobes desire alone time and independence -- and of course there's definitely nothing wrong with that, I'm as introverted as one can get! -- we also need to take the time to actually surround ourselves with good people to help offset our negative perceptions. I've said this before throughout the forums, but I'll say it again -- moving away from my immediate family and cutting ties with toxic family members and "friends" did SO much more for my mental health and social phobia than any amount of CBT ever did. Not knocking one method in favor of another here, but really just trying to further emphasize the importance of good relationships. I'm not sure of your exact situations, but whatever has happened in the past with negative people and negative situations that has impacted your thinking I hope will someday be offset by trying to find those good people and having good communications.

I went into a conversation today with the intention of connecting and talking about things people would relate to, not with the intention of finding something "good" to say, and it went well.

Nice! I find the more you live inside your head during a conversation, the worse it's going to be. At least that has been my experience. For example, like today at work, one of my coworkers was trying to talk to me to get to know me better. She's a very nice person, but given how new everything is for me, I couldn't even carry a conversation with her. I felt really intimidated (why I don't know, she's a very soft person and not intimidating at all!) and I kept giving one word answers or one sentence answers. My brain felt like it was breaking while conversing and then that's all I could think about was how the conversation was going rather than what was being talked about. Thankfully I was saved by some prompt tasks that came up that needed to be completed.

But the thing I do try to remember is that most people like talking about themselves -- themselves being not just them personally, but anything tied to them, like their interests. So like you said, thinking of the intention of "connecting" rather than "finding something good to say."

If all else fails, let the awkward silence take hold and just stare at your phone until the moment passes.

 

[lily]

I went into a conversation today with the intention of connecting and talking about things people would relate to, not with the intention of finding something "good" to say, and it went well.

I was just reflecting on your advice and this thought crossed my mind: what kind of problems do you face personally with social anxiety if, as you say, you have "no problems" through taking your own advice? And how do you know your own advice is working for you?

I don't mean to ask those questions in a judgmental way. I'd just like to understand your perspective better.

I'm glad! I have eye contact social anxiety/phobia, it is difficult for me, it's what I suffer from, from not expressing myself much when I was in a school. I don't have classic social anxiety/phobia where I'm afraid of everything.. I have my unique one and one also which others could relate too all too well.

 

[Miserum]

I am very much an intuitive person and I have really been teaching myself over the last few years to actually just listen to my gut and use my eyes, rather than my incompetent anxiety-riddled brain, to perceive how conversations are going and how people are responding. It's not easy, I still have trouble sometimes, especially in brand new situations with new people and new environments I'm not familiar with.

I know what you mean: don't listen to that voice inside your head. But isn't your voice dictated by your gut-feeling? And vice versa? Isn't it a vicious cycle? I think I'm confused on this point.

I'm not sure of your exact situations, but whatever has happened in the past with negative people and negative situations that has impacted your thinking I hope will someday be offset by trying to find those good people and having good communications.

Definitely agree here. I've met some cool people over the past few years. In particular, I currently have a roommate who is very good at dealing with people. Seems like he can talk and joke about anything... and more importantly, is constantly searching for a connection. It wasn't clear to me that this was what he was doing--searching for a "connection"--until @lily's comment was made. He craves that connection, and people pick up on that craving... it's like his sole purpose is to interact with you. Of course, he's not perfect. But he's pretty damn cool. I've been trying to learn from him. Maybe all it takes is a genuine interest in others.

But yes, even with him, I've found myself judging his motivations, as if he ultimately has some darker ulterior motive. This is the extent of my paranoia. It's probably just paranoia though.

My brain felt like it was breaking while conversing and then that's all I could think about was how the conversation was going rather than what was being talked about.

Exactly. If I feel any amount of pressure in conversation, this is exactly how I feel. All I can focus on is the meta-conversation, and not the actual conversation.

But the thing I do try to remember is that most people like talking about themselves -- themselves being not just them personally, but anything tied to them, like their interests. So like you said, thinking of the intention of "connecting" rather than "finding something good to say."

Good point.

If all else fails, let the awkward silence take hold and just stare at your phone until the moment passes.

I'm one of those people that thinks staring at your phone during a conversation is rude, so I guess I'll stare at the floor and make observations about how nice a shade of burgundy the tiling is.

 

[Miserum]

I'm glad! I have eye contact social anxiety/phobia, it is difficult for me, it's what I suffer from, from not expressing myself much when I was in a school. I don't have classic social anxiety/phobia where I'm afraid of everything.. I have my unique one and one also which others could relate too all too well.

Hmm... I know that people that suffer from autism may have trouble making eye contact. Not saying you suffer from it necessarily. Interesting to know that about you, in any case!

 

[lily]

Thanks that you're interested in knowing about me! haha, r u doing a trick on me? lol, oh and I'm not saying that if you do have something good or interesting to say, not to say it. I'm just saying that people don't really care what you talk about if you're interested in them, uh unless you're talking to the wrong person. No I don't think I have autism, I just don't have any other autistic traits.

 

[lily]

And no, asking other people to talk about themselves while you don't say anything about yourself is like throwing all the burden on them if let's say they didn't have much to say about themself so you should play it safe, it's also not sharing and connecting and this is not something robotic I'm talking about, I have true emotion and care if I were to talk to someone. And if let's say the conversation ends, it just means that you two weren't connecting well or were taking a break and that's ok.

 

[Phoenixx]

I know what you mean: don't listen to that voice inside your head. But isn't your voice dictated by your gut-feeling? And vice versa? Isn't it a vicious cycle? I think I'm confused on this point.

For me my inner voice and my gut are two separate feelings. My intuition doesn't always dictate the voice in my head or vice versa. I can't say it hasn't happened before, but it's rare now for me. Like I said it took me a long time to start to truly listen to my gut feeling and know the difference. It's hard for me to explain or put into words properly, and I wish I could. I just know the difference. That's incredibly not helpful I know, haha.

Definitely agree here. I've met some cool people over the past few years. In particular, I currently have a roommate who is very good at dealing with people. Seems like he can talk and joke about anything... and more importantly, is constantly searching for a connection. It wasn't clear to me that this was what he was doing--searching for a "connection"--until @lily's comment was made. He craves that connection, and people pick up on that craving... it's like his sole purpose is to interact with you. Of course, he's not perfect. But he's pretty damn cool. I've been trying to learn from him. Maybe all it takes is a genuine interest in others.

But yes, even with him, I've found myself judging his motivations, as if he ultimately has some darker ulterior motive. This is the extent of my paranoia. It's probably just paranoia though.

I honestly slightly envy people who are able to achieve connections so easily. It's a natural skill I'll never have. One of my friends is a complete extrovert who also is great at connecting with others. She's just someone who can walk into a room full of people and she already has their attention. I'm not even talking about looks here -- even though she is pretty -- she is just naturally charismatic and can make connections with people I've never seen anyone else able to do as effectively as she can. It's quite impeccable and going to events with her as an awkward sidekick friend actually helped me learn a bit too communicating with others. Believe me, I'm definitely not perfect making connections, and most of the time I don't have a desire to, but I can make small connections here and there much better than I used to.

I'm one of those people that thinks staring at your phone during a conversation is rude, so I guess I'll stare at the floor and make observations about how nice a shade of burgundy the tiling is.

Ha! That'll start a conversation! It may be an awkward one, but it's a conversation nonetheless!