LazyHermitCrab
Well-known member
Just wondering.. not saying you can't.. just curious.
how can you not be shy and have sa?
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hoddesdon
Well-known member
One reason is that shyness is basically caused by external factors, which can be altered.
With social phobia, there is the additional factor of the "core belief". Whatever the details, it boils down to the conviction that there is something intrinsically wrong with you. Mistreatment in the family, from whom you are supposed to get good experiences - according to the mythology of the family - creates that idea. If those who supposedly are most well-disposed towards you, and know you the best, are negative, then it must be true. It actually is not true, of course, but it seems as if it must be true. You have no other experience of life with which to challenge that thought at that time.
As a result, someone who is just shy can recognise when someone likes them, and their behaviour changes accordingly. Snowdrop (I think it was her) said on this website that people are often understanding to begin with, but their patience wears out. They have had experience of a shy person responding if they are reassured, since they recognise it when someone likes them. They do not recognise the difference between shyness and social phobia.
However, the core belief prevents that from happening, since deeply-held beliefs are very difficult to contradict (that applies to everyone and to all beliefs). So you do not recognise it when someone likes you: you continue to behave as if they do not, which makes the other person think you do not like them. Perversely, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
PennyLane had that insight on this website. Her friend told her that she assumed everyone liked her until proven otherwise: she realised that she does the opposite.
With social phobia, there is the additional factor of the "core belief". Whatever the details, it boils down to the conviction that there is something intrinsically wrong with you. Mistreatment in the family, from whom you are supposed to get good experiences - according to the mythology of the family - creates that idea. If those who supposedly are most well-disposed towards you, and know you the best, are negative, then it must be true. It actually is not true, of course, but it seems as if it must be true. You have no other experience of life with which to challenge that thought at that time.
As a result, someone who is just shy can recognise when someone likes them, and their behaviour changes accordingly. Snowdrop (I think it was her) said on this website that people are often understanding to begin with, but their patience wears out. They have had experience of a shy person responding if they are reassured, since they recognise it when someone likes them. They do not recognise the difference between shyness and social phobia.
However, the core belief prevents that from happening, since deeply-held beliefs are very difficult to contradict (that applies to everyone and to all beliefs). So you do not recognise it when someone likes you: you continue to behave as if they do not, which makes the other person think you do not like them. Perversely, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
PennyLane had that insight on this website. Her friend told her that she assumed everyone liked her until proven otherwise: she realised that she does the opposite.
LazyHermitCrab
Well-known member
Thanks for your answer! I think i have both shyness and sa :s ....
WeirdyMcGee
Well-known member
I am terrified of people. That doesn't mean that I can defy my nature and not be outwardly kind toward people, though...
I was raised to respect people and go out of my way to try to make others feel comfortable-- so that is how I act; even through my social anxiety, panic attacks and fear of the human race. -__-
So... I'm scared of people and don't trust them but I (used to, before my agoraphobia worsened to this extent) would do my best to seem friendly and outgoing, anyways. Being shy is certainly not in my nature.
No one from my past would've ever expected me to be someone with social anxiety, but I am.
I was raised to respect people and go out of my way to try to make others feel comfortable-- so that is how I act; even through my social anxiety, panic attacks and fear of the human race. -__-
So... I'm scared of people and don't trust them but I (used to, before my agoraphobia worsened to this extent) would do my best to seem friendly and outgoing, anyways. Being shy is certainly not in my nature.
No one from my past would've ever expected me to be someone with social anxiety, but I am.
philly2bits
Well-known member
That reads more like low self-esteem rather than SA. A person with SA might have low self-esteem but they are different things.
This article may help Social anxiety disorder or shyness? Information on MedicineNet.com
Aussie_Lad
Well-known member
To me shyness means that you get nervous when around other people, but particularly strangers. It is the kid that hides behind his/her mother's leg.
SA people may be able to approach others okay, but may be afraid that you won't get the right words out and will look like a babbling idiot, or just look like a dumbass.
SA people may be able to approach others okay, but may be afraid that you won't get the right words out and will look like a babbling idiot, or just look like a dumbass.
To me, shyness is a measure of your skills in the social department while SA is a measure of your feelings. A shy person is someone who has little to say in certain company, while an SA person's feelings would prevent them from saying what they have to say.
E.g. My mom on an escalator: Of course she has the skills to get onto the escalator. All you have to do is lift your feet and put them down at the right moment. Her anxiety prevents her from doing it though and we always have to take the stairs. Someone on crutches may have no fear on an escalator but it could take them a while to muster up the co-ordination they need.
E.g. My mom on an escalator: Of course she has the skills to get onto the escalator. All you have to do is lift your feet and put them down at the right moment. Her anxiety prevents her from doing it though and we always have to take the stairs. Someone on crutches may have no fear on an escalator but it could take them a while to muster up the co-ordination they need.
JamesSmith
Well-known member
I'm an independent thinker on this subject. I believe shyness and SA are basically the same thing, anxiety. I think SAD(Social Anxiety Disorder) is when anxiety becomes a huge problem and effects someone's life dramatically.
LazyHermitCrab
Well-known member
I think I know what you mean. If someone is nice to you then you are nice back. The problem is if I say thanks for instance, it comes out as a whispered thanks. Yeah kinda creepy. It still seems like your shy in a way.. but are able to cover it up?
LazyHermitCrab
Well-known member
So you can have high self esteem and have sa as well?
LazyHermitCrab
Well-known member
Why would someone be shy if they thought they were going to talk smoothly and not like an idiot? I guess this somewhat make sense.. lol.
LazyHermitCrab
Well-known member
JosephG
Well-known member
I think this topic has moved slightly from "what is the difference between SA and Shyness" to "What is SA and Shyness?".
I don't think it's useful categorising things sometimes. I think the "disorders" are pretty darn similar and at least are nearly always co-morbid.
What I think causes them is a mixture of psychological core beliefs and brain biochemistry. I think if you are feeling happy (high in levels such as dopamine and serotonin) your shyness and SA will literally float away or will at least be manageable.
I'm beginning to think this spectrum of disorders is very related to depression. But that is just me...
I don't think it's useful categorising things sometimes. I think the "disorders" are pretty darn similar and at least are nearly always co-morbid.
What I think causes them is a mixture of psychological core beliefs and brain biochemistry. I think if you are feeling happy (high in levels such as dopamine and serotonin) your shyness and SA will literally float away or will at least be manageable.
I'm beginning to think this spectrum of disorders is very related to depression. But that is just me...
LazyHermitCrab
Well-known member
What is something stupid that doesn't make sense?
LazyHermitCrab
Well-known member
Yeah if your shy it's harder to get those skills...
LazyHermitCrab
Well-known member
Good point, Depression does seem like it would cause a lot of this. (when your not in a good mood and other people are loud and overally happy it's uncomfortable) I didn't mean to catogorise, i just noticed some people said they weren't shy but had sa so just wondered why
We are who we are....
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I tend to blackout in conversations but i'm terrified to just freeze, so i just start to talk before i know about what. Sometimes its like a grammaphone that is stuck and i keep repeating words till i think of something to say (this can take a very long time). Or sometimes when i feel cornered in a conversation because of some question (often happens in front of a group of people) anything can come out. I loose total control. Even things that are rude, without intending.
A few weeks ago i had a workdinner, and some girl asked me what i do in my free time in front of 15 people who were quietly listening (because i never talk about myself everybody was curious what i had to say). I don't know what i said but i know it was very very embarrasing. I started of my answer wrong so i tried to explain it but it got worse and worse. Some peoples faces even turned red and looked away because they were embarrased in my place.
LazyHermitCrab
Well-known member
Awkwwwwward. 15 people is a lot to deal with at once.. it's like you wonder what theyre thinking as your trying to think of something at the same time so it gets confusing, if this is why.