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S_Spartan said: ↑

I must say Kiwong that I think it's great that you can run so far. I took up running last year but can only do a couple miles then I have to stop and that is on flat tracks.

It takes time to build up S_Spartan for body to adapt. I've been running for 6 years now.

S_Spartan said: ↑

The world is a loose place and I'm learning how to be loose along with it.

The more I loosen up the better I feel and the better I get along with people, even in a business setting.

This jumped out and has been with me for the whole morning - I'd be very interested to hear more of your thoughts on this?! Does it mean that the world seems to have lots of (anxiety producing) social rules and "musts" and "shoulds", but you don't have to care so much about them?

kihira said: ↑

This jumped out and has been with me for the whole morning - I'd be very interested to hear more of your thoughts on this?! Does it mean that the world seems to have lots of (anxiety producing) social rules and "musts" and "shoulds", but you don't have to care so much about them?

There are a couple of different facets to it.

You hit on one of them there in your post. And you are totally right. There are many "rules" and you don't have to care so much about them.

I think that one thing that people with anxiety do is we tend to see the world as being more rigid than it actually is.

For example, in my 20s when my anxiety was at it's worst I would literally lay awake at night and obssess over the fact that society will demonize a serial killer(and rightfully so) yet an "ambituos" man who bends the law and walks over people for his own gain is often times seen as sexy or that behavior is even encouraged in American culture.

My bianary logical mind could not fathom how two men who are both breaking the same understood moral code of "do not harm other people" could be seen so differently. How could a man break the moral code in some small way today without sliding down to the depths of total evil eventually.

Of course what I was failing to see then is the matter of degree and the fact that the world is filled with gray areas and nuance.

The moral code is very loose. You may go to prison for breaking and entering and stealing but you won't go to prison for cheating on your spouse. The former is a punishable offense the latter is just kind of shameful even though society tells us that both are wrong.

Those are extreme examples but what I am trying to convey is that many times things don't matter nearly as much as we think they do. It's OK to give yourself some margin of error because the whole world is filled with error. This does not mean becoming a criminal or doing reckless things where people get hurt but rather allowing oneself to revel in the illogical because the world is illogical.

This applies to SA as well because people with SA sometimes feel that they have to say the right things and act the right way in social situations but the truth is that in most social situations the margin of error is pretty high. Meaning that other people aren't nearly as lucid and paying attention to our actions as we think they are. And even if we are being judged does it really matter in the grand scheme of things?

Social situations are mostly loose. And I have found that the more loose I am in social situations, the better I get on with people.

The other facet to this is that nature itself is very loose. At least as far as human standards go.

Nature doesn't sit around a grieve over where to put this tree or where to put this rock. It doesn't plan on how a stream should flow off of mountain. With nature it's pretty much just wherever it falls that is where it falls.

It doesn't sit around and think about how a flood or an earthquake or a volcano might affect human beings or wildlife. It just lets it rip!

It doesn't care if a species becomes extinct.

To me nature seems to run the world in the most casual and loose way.

A tree may drop a thousand seeds and out of that thousand maybe only a handful will grow. Humans would call that INEFFICIENT and illogical!

I will end this thick wall of text now by saying that as I end my marriage to logic I feel better. I believe that is because the world is ultimately an illogical place.

And since I now classify myself as a nihilist, I actually believe that the world is an absurd place.

^Thanks! I'm going to keep chewing the cud on this as I think it's a big piece of the puzzle that's been missing for me. :thumbup:

^careful... he's a Nihilist 😛

though I don't think he's a German one XD

Nihilists invade The Dude's private residence - YouTube

S_Spartan said: ↑

I guess what I am trying to say that I no longer believe in "one size fits all" solutions in life. Fate and luck play WAY too big a role for that.

There are many people on this site who are not getting ANY breaks in life.

S_Spartan said: ↑

The simple fact is that WE ARE ALL NOT GETTING POSITIVE RESPONSES TO OUR TRIES! For some it make take hundreds of tries to get a positive result.

^ I agree with this. I think the problem is when some people have had good parents, a good education, a good secure job, met a partner without much effort they tend to not have any idea what other people who haven't experienced the same level of good luck and reward for their hard work have suffered. It boils down to the point that many people just can't grasp what they have not experienced themselves.

I have seen first hand people who have been raised in wealthy families, been given top notch education paid for by their wealthy parents, then landed a high salary job from friends of their parents. They attribute their own accumulated wealth to their "hard work". They just can't grasp that they had a head start in life right from the beginning and can't understand what it is like for poor people who started off without the wealthy parents to begin with.
It's the same as many people not being able to grasp how debilitating social phobia is because they were born with a naturally outgoing personality. :sad:

Sometimes it seems like the light is going out on my life. I can still see from time to time that life is worth living. And I keep trying and trying, but the world is beating me down, and sometimes what makes life worth living is just a thin veneer lying over what is one horrible nightmare just below the surface.

I tried, sometimes I won I can take some pride from that.

S_Spartan said: ↑

Nature doesn't sit around a grieve over where to put this tree or where to put this rock. It doesn't plan on how a stream should flow off of mountain. With nature it's pretty much just wherever it falls that is where it falls.

It doesn't sit around and think about how a flood or an earthquake or a volcano might affect human beings or wildlife. It just lets it rip!

It doesn't care if a species becomes extinct.

To me nature seems to run the world in the most casual and loose way.

A tree may drop a thousand seeds and out of that thousand maybe only a handful will grow. Humans would call that INEFFICIENT and illogical!

I actually believe that the world is an absurd place.

I found all of this inspiring. We are all trying too hard. I personally hold myself to standards that I can't reach, I just need to let go and let myself be. Maybe if I can do that, I can stop holding others to these impossible standards as well. I need to loosen up and be more accepting, of others, of myself and my limitations.
Thanks for that thoughtful observation!

BlueDays said: ↑

I have seen first hand people who have been raised in wealthy families, been given top notch education paid for by their wealthy parents, then landed a high salary job from friends of their parents. They attribute their own accumulated wealth to their "hard work". They just can't grasp that they had a head start in life right from the beginning and can't understand what it is like for poor people who started off without the wealthy parents to begin with.
It's the same as many people not being able to grasp how debilitating social phobia is because they were born with a naturally outgoing personality. :sad:

This is so true.
:thumbup:

They've actually found that wealth breeds narcissism, and nothing I have seen has ever suggested to the contrary. It's always the rich who are insisting that the poor get their own money or learn how to do better in life or whatever-- it's because the culture worships the rich so they get a false sense of their own inherent superiority. It's also a major factor in the wealth gap that is bringing everything closer to total economic collapse.

The age of entitlement: how wealth breeds narcissism | Anne Manne | Comment is free | theguardian.com

I've seen this exact phenomenon among tourists from wealthy nations when they're on holiday in poor nations... they treat the locals like inferiors/subhumans who don't deserve the same things they have. Why would the rich people in our own nations be any different towards us?

Rich people are less likely to give to charity, more likely to oppose tax hikes, less likely to feel any empathy towards suffering, and put themselves and their own interests ahead of other people's interests. It's sort of the same reasoning in that fellow who was posting about how everyone can turn their lives around and be as awesome as he is... they don't live in the same world as the rest of us and have lost their connection to the rest of the human race.

kihira said: ↑

^Thanks! I'm going to keep chewing the cud on this as I think it's a big piece of the puzzle that's been missing for me. :thumbup:

I may not have described it very well. It's kinda a feeling or even an attitude that is hard to accurately put into words.

This IS a big piece of the puzzle for me. I am calmer now and I enjoy things more deeply.

I just wish that it didn't take me 40 years to discover how loose the world is and that it's ok for me to be loose as well. Nobody certainly taught me this. They taught me the opposite. They taught me to always be rigid.

Keep on your toes!
Keep your nose to the grindstone!
Always watch your back!
Cover you a**!
Always plan ahead!
Be reasonable!
What would Jesus do?
Keep your chin up!
Get a leg up!
Get your foot in the door!
Put your best foot forward!
Love your neighbor as yourself!
Eat your vegetables!
Pound the pavement!
Do your homework!
Keep your blood pressure below 120 over 80!
Pay your bills on time!
Check your credit report!
Check your credit score!
Would you like to donate today?
Share your toys!
Say "please" and "thank you"!
Say you are sorry!
Dress nicely for the interview!
Smile!
Turn that frown upside down!

And on and on it goes. Human rigidity all of it! Is it any wonder that so many people are neurotic messes today?

And these are just the greatest hits. Feel free to add to the list!

MollyBeGood said: ↑

^careful... he's a Nihilist 😛

though I don't think he's a German one XD

Nihilists invade The Dude's private residence - YouTube

Hahaha! I do have alot of German in me. :thinking:

But I'm more a cross between those German Nihilists and "The Dude". :thumbup:

BlueDays said: ↑

^ I agree with this. I think the problem is when some people have had good parents, a good education, a good secure job, met a partner without much effort they tend to not have any idea what other people who haven't experienced the same level of good luck and reward for their hard work have suffered. It boils down to the point that many people just can't grasp what they have not experienced themselves.

I have seen first hand people who have been raised in wealthy families, been given top notch education paid for by their wealthy parents, then landed a high salary job from friends of their parents. They attribute their own accumulated wealth to their "hard work". They just can't grasp that they had a head start in life right from the beginning and can't understand what it is like for poor people who started off without the wealthy parents to begin with.
It's the same as many people not being able to grasp how debilitating social phobia is because they were born with a naturally outgoing personality. :sad:

So very true! I very very tired of people telling me how I should be living all while assuming that I have the exact same resources to work with as they do!

They when you look at these people more closely you start to see the "magic" that propelled them along to where they are.

I'm sure Morrow has had his struggles in life but he is a good example of the saying "when one door closes, another door opens." He even said that his wife leaving was a "lucky break"!

I have not lived that reality. Doors close but new ones do not open. Despite my efforts my life has gotten smaller. And I have made peace with that. A small life in this day and age is much less complicated.

Now I just care more about having fun and have given up on "The Race" that I was never really a part of to begin with.

Lavinialuna said: ↑

I found all of this inspiring. We are all trying too hard. I personally hold myself to standards that I can't reach, I just need to let go and let myself be. Maybe if I can do that, I can stop holding others to these impossible standards as well. I need to loosen up and be more accepting, of others, of myself and my limitations.
Thanks for that thoughtful observation!

Thanks! I am still in the process myself. I can still think that being rigid is the answer sometimes then I smack my forehead and think "what were you thinking"?!?!?

The really humbling thing to remember is that in 100 years all this stuff we think is so important right now will matter not one bit.

Kiwong said: ↑

Sometimes it seems like the light is going out on my life. I can still see from time to time that life is worth living. And I keep trying and trying, but the world is beating me down, and sometimes what makes life worth living is just a thin veneer lying over what is one horrible nightmare just below the surface.

I tried, sometimes I won I can take some pride from that.

Maybe you need to try to stop looking at life as winning and losing and see it as the gray blob of ambivalence that it actually is.

Maybe you need to stop trying so hard so you can find some peace.

Just my two cents...

Maybe you need to try to stop looking at life as winning and losing and see it as the gray blob of ambivalence that it actually is.

Maybe you need to stop trying so hard so you can find some peace.

Just my two cents

I won't find peace if I stop trying. I've found moments of peace and happiness by trying. So I will never give up or say goodbye.

Kiwong said: ↑

I won't find peace if I stop trying. I've found moments of peace and happiness by trying. So I will never give up or say goodbye.

I'm not saying to stop trying. Just not being so emotionally tied to outcomes.

Rant-
I think most people who are successful financially, and are doing well in this life have had a ton of support from their parents. They had their colleges paid for, jobs lined-up afterwards and also got chunks of money, sometimes huge ones, along the way to facilitate their success. If they need a place to stay the doors are open to them, if they need a car one is given, a loan, etc...

It is unfair in this world to have to compete with people who have No Idea what is like to not have that support.

Pretty much everyone I have know has had this safety net and it does mean advantages in life. Period. It means you can sleep easier, be happier, be better adjusted because life is being kind to you. You can see things working out for you and you have a future.

I have never had a future.

Try living without any of this support and see how far you get. Unless you have impressive strength of character and self esteem the world will eat you alive!

Some people have no idea how lucky they are. I have had to fight for everything I have and it does make me a bit touchy. I have had to deal with no support and it does make me hard to this world. I want to be softer and I am not allowed. I always have to fight for everything.

I am working hard again to change my life. I have had some really s h i t things happen to me in the last decade and I am just now getting back on my feet. I have huge dreams and plans and I won't let this oppressive system who favors some and leaves the rest of us to suffer take me down.

If you have a nice soft bed and food to eat and people who love you no matter what then, my friend, you have it all. The rest of us have to fight for it. If you have a good job and a healthy sense of self worth, you probably had a lot of people supporting you in this life to have those things and you are lucky.

My life has been bruises, splinters, and closed doors. No help, no open hearts and open arms. I have worked as hard as anyone, so it is not for lack of trying. Sometimes I just want to b i t c h about it and not be judged so harshly by people who don't know what it's like to feel this way.

I feel better now 🙂

I understand Mol! I have a sore spot for stories of people who overcame horrible medical conditions to be successful and inspiring solely because they have an undying positive attitude.... Makes me want to hurl! I am in pain all the time and on top of it I have to feel guilty because I am not able to work or at least be an inspiration to others? Forget that. I HURT. I feel like I have the flu all the time. I ache every moment of every day and that is just baseline (it gets worse at times.) How can I be expected to be at the top of my game and cheerful all the time?
I am totally jaded, and I think it's understandable- or at least it should be. So many turned their backs on me when I got sick. When the fun stops and sh*t gets serious no one wants anything to do with you anymore, including my own mother. Yeah, it's not hard to imagine how my disorder developed. People seem to think there is something wrong with me, but in actuality, as the saying goes "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." If I open myself up for this type of hurt and rejection again wouldn't that just make me a fool? Seems like my reaction (social anxiety) is fully warranted, although unfortunate.
I won't let the disease or the anxiety ruin my life, but I will take joy from a different source now. I don't need a huge group of friends to enjoy the sunset, or an extended family circle to appreciate a warm breeze. I will give all of my love and energy to the few I have in my life who truly love and cherish me, and none to anyone who doesn't.

Lavinialuna said: ↑

So many turned their backs on me when I got sick. When the fun stops and sh*t gets serious no one wants anything to do with you anymore

You could always poke me if you need something, though :thumbup:

Hellhound said: ↑

You could always poke me if you need something, though :thumbup:

Thanks, and back at ya! :perfect:

S_Spartan said: ↑

I'm not saying to stop trying. Just not being so emotionally tied to outcomes.

I seem to thrive on the uncertainty of outcome. To push through the line of pain and doubt, to face fear without knowing the result, and the reward for effort that lies on the other side. That's how I've lived my best days.

Yes, the age of entitlement and privilege is alive and well. For example the Australian Government wants to make it more expensive to get an education, and for people who can't get a job to wait six months before they can get unemployment assistance. I guess the Government would like to encourage only the rich to get any advantage. They don't care about the disadvantaged, and especially those who may think independently enough to vote against them.

I appreciated my parents support without them I might not have made it through high school. My father helped me out through uni and I helped him later on as he got older. I realise how lucky I got.

Good luck with your battle, Molly, I hope you see a change a fortune, and are able to chase down some of you dreams.

Kiwong said: ↑

Yes, the age of entitlement and privilege is alive and well. For example the Australian Government wants to make it more expensive to get an education, and for people who can't get a job to wait six months before they can get unemployment assistance. I guess the Government would like to encourage only the rich to get any advantage. They don't care about the disadvantaged, and especially those who may think independently enough to vote against them.

I appreciated my parents support without them I might not have made it through high school. My father helped me out through uni and I helped him later on as he got older. I realise how lucky I got.

Good luck with your battle, Molly, I hope you see a change a fortune, and are able to chase down some of you dreams.

Thanks Kiwong!

Tyranny is rampant these days. :\ Even under the guise of our supposed democracy. It is much worst and corporate run now. I get really sad and upset at it all. I have been studying systems as a whole on my own and the lack of honesty in our "education system" here to start with is almost pathetic. Just learning about the pyramids on my own, wow, and discovering all of the lies we were taught in regards to them, upsets me and makes me want to get away. It never ends. All calculated control systems in place.

MollyBeGood said: ↑

Rant-
I think most people who are successful financially, and are doing well in this life have had a ton of support from their parents. They had their colleges paid for, jobs lined-up afterwards and also got chunks of money, sometimes huge ones, along the way to facilitate their success. If they need a place to stay the doors are open to them, if they need a car one is given, a loan, etc...

It is unfair in this world to have to compete with people who have No Idea what is like to not have that support.

Pretty much everyone I have know has had this safety net and it does mean advantages in life. Period. It means you can sleep easier, be happier, be better adjusted because life is being kind to you. You can see things working out for you and you have a future.

I have never had a future.

Try living without any of this support and see how far you get. Unless you have impressive strength of character and self esteem the world will eat you alive!

Some people have no idea how lucky they are. I have had to fight for everything I have and it does make me a bit touchy. I have had to deal with no support and it does make me hard to this world. I want to be softer and I am not allowed. I always have to fight for everything.

I am working hard again to change my life. I have had some really s h i t things happen to me in the last decade and I am just now getting back on my feet. I have huge dreams and plans and I won't let this oppressive system who favors some and leaves the rest of us to suffer take me down.

If you have a nice soft bed and food to eat and people who love you no matter what then, my friend, you have it all. The rest of us have to fight for it. If you have a good job and a healthy sense of self worth, you probably had a lot of people supporting you in this life to have those things and you are lucky.

My life has been bruises, splinters, and closed doors. No help, no open hearts and open arms. I have worked as hard as anyone, so it is not for lack of trying. Sometimes I just want to b i t c h about it and not be judged so harshly by people who don't know what it's like to feel this way.

I feel better now 🙂

^ :applause: :applause: If only more of us who have not had the support or luck that others have taken for granted spoke up and laid the facts on the table like you just did, maybe there would be more understanding.:thumbup: