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S_Spartan

Well-known member
#81
Don’t for one moment, think my statement “I have all I want or need” came free. It was paid for. I went through a process I called “personal reform” shortly after starting this job in 1991. I was hired with high hopes from my employer, and I didn’t live up to what they thought, mainly due to my own issues. I lost respect from those I supervised, I lost respect from my own supervisors, and that resulted in a lot of shame. So much that I wanted to quit, and start fresh somewhere else. I thought long and hard about where I was going in life, so much of my failure was a pattern that followed me right from childhood, so I had to figure out what I was doing wrong, and correct it, or at least come up with a better system.

That I did. It’s too long to outline, but if at some point I need to share some of what I did, and the resources I used, I will. There is a saying I have, “when one wants help bad enough, they will find it, sometimes in unusual places.” This personal reform was my own marshal plan. I evaluated everything about myself, my behaviors and my though process. The behaviors were a problem, but more importantly, my mind needed the true work. My perspectives were wrong, and that resulted in wrong communication. My self esteem was low, which resulted in behavior that reflected that. So my plan was multi-pronged, and quite involved. I actually have a couple of notebooks I used to help me as I organized this life-system.

To sum it up, I learned a key thing: “fix the within, and you fix the without.” This means that as I changed, those in my outer environments changed how they responded to me. I earned respect (took a few years) and my leadership skills improved immensely. As I became confident that my system worked, I took on a project that worked nicely with everything I was working on. I created an organization in the region I worked in that took children ages 8 – 14, and placed them in community service projects I would set up. As the coordinator and primary leader of this organization, I had to do all the footwork. From making sure my organization had insurance, to working with local non-profits to set up the projects themselves. I had to meet and work with local leaders, and I ended up on television a couple times, and in the local papers. It was overwhelming at first because I had no idea this personal project would get so much attention. My style is not very polished, and I am not much of a diplomat. The children loved me however, the parents did too, and everyone trusted me. I had a small following of parents, and some co-workers even, joining my cause and helping me fund and supervise projects. This little personal project went on for 8 years, and I got more out of it than the kids or the parents. It developed and fine tuned my personal reforms.

My cheating wife left me 4 years ago, she stole from me, lied to me, and my desire to run this program kind of ended. However, I got everything in the divorce. My home and property, my retirement was untouched, and I kept my son who was 15 at the time. About eight months after the divorce I met a girl who was cousins with a co worker, she was 15 years younger, who had just escaped an abusive marriage. I was impressed with her, not to mention attracted, and I convinced her to date me, and eventually become my girlfriend. (she still is). I have never been as happy in a relationship as I am now. Last year, my mom whom I never really got along with, moved out of the area, and outright gave me my childhood home. She had upgraded everything, the roof, the windows, the siding, the furnace, the central air, the carpets, everything was brand new. I moved my girlfriend and her young children into the house with me, and turned my other house over to my best friend, my son. He lives there rent free, but has to take care of it. My house with my girlfriend is so comfortable, and I just feel so lucky to have everything I could possibly want. I have been at my job now for 23 years, and am making plenty of money, so between that and everything else, plus life systems that work, I feel like I'm on top of it all.

Hope that sheds light on what I was saying. I have what I want, but there was a process. Presently, I live with a reputation of being a go it aloner, but I am not alone. I have respect, my girlfriends parents (whom I went to school with, so in the beginning it was weird) say I’m the best boyfriend shes ever had. I love her and treat her with respect, and I get that treatment in return…..from ALL of them. Respect given, is respect gained. However, one begins with respecting themselves, and it goes from there.

Take care my brothers/sisters in the non-social world. My purpose here is to help others overcome some of the shame I went through, and that they might be going through now. There is hope, there are systems to fix things. I can help with that.
I have no doubt that you have worked hard to overcome many obstacles and even some tragedies in your life.

However, you have to admit that there were some lucky breaks in there.

For instance, some of us don't get a second chance at our job. Some of us can't get a job at all!

For many of us when one love leaves we are not immediately greeted with a new girlfriend/boyfriend who just shows up. Some will try for many years and still not meet that special person.

And there are very few people who can say they came though a divorce totally unscathed.

Some of us have rotten parents who will never just up and leave and give us a house. Some will have parents that expect help from the children.

Again, not trying to belittle your achievements but I think that you are assuming that we are all living the same reality when we are not.

I guess what I am trying to say that I no longer believe in "one size fits all" solutions in life. Fate and luck play WAY too big a role for that.

There are many people on this site who are not getting ANY breaks in life.

Count your many blessings, my friend. It sounds like you are living a good life!
 
#82
I have no doubt that you have worked hard to overcome many obstacles and even some tragedies in your life.

However, you have to admit that there were some lucky breaks in there.

For instance, some of us don't get a second chance at our job. Some of us can't get a job at all!

For many of us when one love leaves we are not immediately greeted with a new girlfriend/boyfriend who just shows up. Some will try for many years and still not meet that special person.

And there are very few people who can say they came though a divorce totally unscathed.

Some of us have rotten parents who will never just up and leave and give us a house. Some will have parents that expect help from the children.

Again, not trying to belittle your achievements but I think that you are assuming that we are all living the same reality when we are not.

I guess what I am trying to say that I no longer believe in "one size fits all" solutions in life. Fate and luck play WAY too big a role for that.

There are many people on this site who are not getting ANY breaks in life.

Count your many blessings, my friend. It sounds like you are living a good life!
I agree that the guy got some good luck, but I disagree that you should discard his entire process because of it.

Luck is not something that falls into your lap and fix all your problems, it shows up quietly and it's your move to notice it or not, to use it or not. You don't get a job, you find a job (it took me 1 year to find mine, then I lost it, then another year to find my current one). He got a second chance at work because he did not give up. He got his second girlfriend because he worked to get her. Yeah he didn't get washed by his ex-wife, but you forget that it implies his wife cheated on him (lucky guy!). That house thing is definitely luck that came out of nowhere though.

Anyway. See my point?

Wait... I'm not old enough to post here :ironicsmile:
 

S_Spartan

Well-known member
#83
I agree that the guy got some good luck, but I disagree that you should discard his entire process because of it.

Luck is not something that falls into your lap and fix all your problems, it shows up quietly and it's your move to notice it or not, to use it or not. You don't get a job, you find a job (it took me 1 year to find mine, then I lost it, then another year to find my current one). He got a second chance at work because he did not give up. He got his second girlfriend because he worked to get her. Yeah he didn't get washed by his ex-wife, but you forget that it implies his wife cheated on him (lucky guy!). That house thing is definitely luck that came out of nowhere though.

Anyway. See my point?

Wait... I'm not old enough to post here :ironicsmile:

Of course I see your point and I am not discarding his entire process. He did have some bad luck, mainly the cheating wife, but it all worked out in the end. For many that just doesn't happen.

I have known people who have been through a divorce and have never been able to recover, either emotionally or financially. Should we say that those people deserved it because they were too weak to move on? Or did they never acquire the necessary external resources they needed to move on?

The simple fact is that WE ARE ALL NOT GETTING POSITIVE RESPONSES TO OUR TRIES! For some it make take hundreds of tries to get a positive result. And it's good for them to keep trying but many tries in life without some positive results occasionally can be emotionally devastating and most people have never been taught how to cope with that.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't try, just that I raise an eyebrow when someone comes on the internet saying that they have a tried and true method that "can help you too!" Maybe they do...but let's not forget that in many ways life is like a big casino...sure...there are smarter ways to gamble but it ultimately comes down to luck of the draw. Can you really teach people how to play a slot machine the "right" way? And life isn't even as linear as a slot machine! The rules are always changing!

One lucky break can totally turn a persons life around. Of course it's our responsibility to respond positively to luck or lack of luck. However the individual who has lacked luck will have fewer resources to work with.

It's the difference between going into a casino with a million dollars to gamble versus, say, $20 to gamble. Which one will have better odds of winning?

There is one thing that always gets glossed over in American society and that is the fact that we do not have total freewill. We are always fighting against the invisible forces of luck, chance, and fate in a game that is constantly changing. This is not to say that we should do nothing or stop fighting but rather that we should be honest about it and adjust our expectations accordingly. Both of ourselves and each other. Maybe we would all be a little happier and more forgiving.
 

MollyBeGood

Well-known member
#84
Makes me think what is luck even? I was lucky once and got a horse for a dollar, but unlucky when I had trouble affording his care and training because of financial problems so he became a source of un-luck.
Same can be said for winning the lottery-Oh what Luck!..But then the unlucky joker gambled it all away and now lives in poverty.

I was lucky to be born white in this world because it means I won't ever live in a ghetto but unlucky because I didn't get a trust fund.

I felt lucky when I met my ex, then unlucky when he turned out to be abusive.

"You make your own luck" well maybe but not really.
 

morrowrd

Active member
#85
<Of course I see your point and I am not discarding his entire process. He did have some bad luck, mainly the cheating wife, but it all worked out in the end. For many that just doesn't happen. >

Actually, the cheating wife leaving was pretty good luck. I’m glad to be rid of her and that she’s someone else’s problem. The longer I spent away from her, the more I saw how bad it was, for me.

<I have known people who have been through a divorce and have never been able to recover, either emotionally or financially. Should we say that those people deserved it because they were too weak to move on? Or did they never acquire the necessary external resources they needed to move on?>

My whole post had to do with reforming myself, and a benefit of this process is the building of self confidence. It takes self confidence to dismiss things, as opposed to what I used to do. Make excuses for myself, others. Lie or pretend nothing is wrong. For a person to be able to act, and just dismiss the fact there will be consequences for acting, is a great strength to possess, especially if you didn’t own that trait before. All that work I did, happened BEFORE the cheating was discovered, and due to the reforms, I was in pretty good shape to handle it all, and come up with a plan B confidently.


<The simple fact is that WE ARE ALL NOT GETTING POSITIVE RESPONSES TO OUR TRIES! For some it make take hundreds of tries to get a positive result. And it's good for them to keep trying but many tries in life without some positive results occasionally can be emotionally devastating and most people have never been taught how to cope with that.>

I wasn’t getting any positive feedback initially. In fact, if you are reforming yourself and looking for validation, you’re in it for the wrong reasons. Its no different than the person who starts to work out for a few months and is annoyed and disappointed because his physique isn’t like the cover of the bodybuilding magazines he’s reading. Reforms take time, you do them no matter what because you want change. All the changes regarding others, (new respect for instance) happens over time as others in your outer circle get used to the “new you.” Recalibration happens over time, and patience as well as consistency is the key. A little discipline in other words. Trial and error have a lot to do with my own personal reforms, I didn’t get things right the first time, although sometimes I did. Thus why I kept logs, and notebooks, to help keep systems organized.

<I'm not saying that people shouldn't try, just that I raise an eyebrow when someone comes on the internet saying that they have a tried and true method that "can help you too!" Maybe they do...but let's not forget that in many ways life is like a big casino...sure...there are smarter ways to gamble but it ultimately comes down to luck of the draw. Can you really teach people how to play a slot machine the "right" way? And life isn't even as linear as a slot machine! The rules are always changing! >

I’m not here on this site for my health. I don’t know you, or anyone else. I have what I have in life due to my own hard work and methods, willpower, discipline, and the desire to change no matter what others thought. If you don’t want to believe what I say will work, you do have that right. I don’t claim to have all the answers. However, if what you’re doing ISN’T working, it is foolish to dismiss someone sharing a system that in fact, does work. As for luck, we make our own luck. My mom wouldn’t have turned that home over to me if she didn’t like my lifestyle. However, my mom respected the work I did in the community, and she knows what kind of anti-social person that I am. She met my new girlfriend as was happy hearing how she is happy, and makes me happy, and my mom respected how I raised my son, and respects and understands our closeness, and saw the years of a terrible marriage.

If say, I was fired from my job, got on drugs to self-medicate, and had a shitty irresponsible lifestyle, she would have sold the damn house. So be careful dismissing everything as luck. We make our own luck.

Also, be careful of being your own worst enemy, not truly trying because you are so caught up in everyone else having supposed lucky breaks. Work on yourself, like I said, no matter what. And allow the process to flow naturally, over time you will see the changes I mentioned.
 

S_Spartan

Well-known member
#86
<Of course I see your point and I am not discarding his entire process. He did have some bad luck, mainly the cheating wife, but it all worked out in the end. For many that just doesn't happen. >

Actually, the cheating wife leaving was pretty good luck. I’m glad to be rid of her and that she’s someone else’s problem. The longer I spent away from her, the more I saw how bad it was, for me.

<I have known people who have been through a divorce and have never been able to recover, either emotionally or financially. Should we say that those people deserved it because they were too weak to move on? Or did they never acquire the necessary external resources they needed to move on?>

My whole post had to do with reforming myself, and a benefit of this process is the building of self confidence. It takes self confidence to dismiss things, as opposed to what I used to do. Make excuses for myself, others. Lie or pretend nothing is wrong. For a person to be able to act, and just dismiss the fact there will be consequences for acting, is a great strength to possess, especially if you didn’t own that trait before. All that work I did, happened BEFORE the cheating was discovered, and due to the reforms, I was in pretty good shape to handle it all, and come up with a plan B confidently.


<The simple fact is that WE ARE ALL NOT GETTING POSITIVE RESPONSES TO OUR TRIES! For some it make take hundreds of tries to get a positive result. And it's good for them to keep trying but many tries in life without some positive results occasionally can be emotionally devastating and most people have never been taught how to cope with that.>

I wasn’t getting any positive feedback initially. In fact, if you are reforming yourself and looking for validation, you’re in it for the wrong reasons. Its no different than the person who starts to work out for a few months and is annoyed and disappointed because his physique isn’t like the cover of the bodybuilding magazines he’s reading. Reforms take time, you do them no matter what because you want change. All the changes regarding others, (new respect for instance) happens over time as others in your outer circle get used to the “new you.” Recalibration happens over time, and patience as well as consistency is the key. A little discipline in other words. Trial and error have a lot to do with my own personal reforms, I didn’t get things right the first time, although sometimes I did. Thus why I kept logs, and notebooks, to help keep systems organized.

<I'm not saying that people shouldn't try, just that I raise an eyebrow when someone comes on the internet saying that they have a tried and true method that "can help you too!" Maybe they do...but let's not forget that in many ways life is like a big casino...sure...there are smarter ways to gamble but it ultimately comes down to luck of the draw. Can you really teach people how to play a slot machine the "right" way? And life isn't even as linear as a slot machine! The rules are always changing! >

I’m not here on this site for my health. I don’t know you, or anyone else. I have what I have in life due to my own hard work and methods, willpower, discipline, and the desire to change no matter what others thought. If you don’t want to believe what I say will work, you do have that right. I don’t claim to have all the answers. However, if what you’re doing ISN’T working, it is foolish to dismiss someone sharing a system that in fact, does work. As for luck, we make our own luck. My mom wouldn’t have turned that home over to me if she didn’t like my lifestyle. However, my mom respected the work I did in the community, and she knows what kind of anti-social person that I am. She met my new girlfriend as was happy hearing how she is happy, and makes me happy, and my mom respected how I raised my son, and respects and understands our closeness, and saw the years of a terrible marriage.

If say, I was fired from my job, got on drugs to self-medicate, and had a shitty irresponsible lifestyle, she would have sold the damn house. So be careful dismissing everything as luck. We make our own luck.

Also, be careful of being your own worst enemy, not truly trying because you are so caught up in everyone else having supposed lucky breaks. Work on yourself, like I said, no matter what. And allow the process to flow naturally, over time you will see the changes I mentioned.

Again, I do not believe that people should stop trying or stop working on themselves. I do find the phrase "work on yourself" to be a bit murky however. Work on yourself within what framework? Society?

When I was growing up in Christian school I was taught to work on myself to please God in order to get to heaven. When I became an adult I was told to work on myself to obtain money.

To get even more philosophical about it, should a human being need to work on himself/herself at all in the grand scheme of things other than to try to mete out positive validations from society?

But I'm getting ahead of myself here...

I will shut up about it all but I will say one last thing and that is that as I have aged I no longer believe that we make our own luck nor do I believe that we live independent of the validation that good luck and positive results provide or the damnation that bad luck entails.

One more point, if it is my total responsibility to make my own good luck then why am I left off the hook for the creation of my BAD luck?

for instance, if I'm sitting at a red light in my car all nice n' legal and some idiot comes up from behind an rear ends me, how is that not my fault? By law it is not my fault, I was there doing everything "right" then this bad thing happened out of nowhere and I was the victim!

So if bad things happen randomly to good people that was something that they made happen?

So if you say that we have total freewill to make our own good luck then you have to say that we have total goodwill to make our own bad luck as well.
 
#87
I hope I'm not pouring gazoline in the fire giving my opinion on this, but:

When I was growing up in Christian school I was taught to work on myself to please God in order to get to heaven. When I became an adult I was told to work on myself to obtain money.

To get even more philosophical about it, should a human being need to work on himself/herself at all in the grand scheme of things other than to try to mete out positive validations from society?
For me the answer was to work on myself in order to become someone I was proud of being, no matter anyone elses's opinion. Looking for feedback and validation from society, family or friends is not a good bet, I think you have to get it from yourself.

So if bad things happen randomly to good people that was something that they made happen?

So if you say that we have total freewill to make our own good luck then you have to say that we have total goodwill to make our own bad luck as well.
I don't think anyone talked about total freewill, but the way you deal with your good luck and bad luck is entirely up to you.
 

morrowrd

Active member
#88
<Again, I do not believe that people should stop trying or stop working on themselves. I do find the phrase "work on yourself" to be a bit murky however. Work on yourself within what framework? Society? >

It’s not murky, it’s quite simple. Work on yourself within your own framework. I created a formula which I will share with you.

Will + Faith + Purpose = Power

Will, or what I like to call “personal will” is the ability to affect any particular status quo at your pleasure. The bully on the playground for instance, do we interfere? Or do we do nothing (doing nothing is an act of will by the way, which will have it’s own effect on the status quo, the same as doing something.) If we interfere, we have do decide what level of interference, or intervention we want to use, and then follow through with the decision.’

Faith, or again “personal faith” is the growing confidence we have in ourselves as we exercise our will each time. As we get better at it, we become stronger, trusting ourselves more and more each time. Faith becomes a true resource that acts as wind beneath our wings each new time we utilize our personal will. Personal faith can also be strengthened in other uses of will, such as telling the truth. Being someone who does not tell the truth on a regular basis, is much more undermining than one would think. After awhile, the liar doesn’t have faith in their own words, and will second-guess themselves, lowering confidence, and loss of personal faith is a given. So the moral of this part, tell the damn truth ALL the time. Suck up the consequences and deal with it because the rewards are very much worth it.

Purpose is what we are focusing our will & faith upon. What is the particular results that we wish to see by our “affecting” the status quo? Remember, the status quo can be anything, anywhere, within our circle of influence, including inside ourselves. Just like the person who lies, do we have a problem, a pattern of not telling the truth? Do we wish to affect that status quo? And do we do it by telling the truth, no matter what? And then whats going to happen when we start that change? I’ll tell you what’s going to happen, you are going to see a change….for the better.

The power I am referring to, is having the ability to survey a status quo, a situation that you would like to change, and deciding to intervene and make things come out different. A person who has built up a strong personal will and personal faith, and has become fluent in setting a solid purpose, will grow and become powerful.


<When I was growing up in Christian school I was taught to work on myself to please God in order to get to heaven. When I became an adult I was told to work on myself to obtain money.>

Funny you should mention this. I was kicked out of my Christian home at age 14, (the home I now own), and went to a Christian school where I spent two years living in a bible school dorm, going to school on the campus during the day. A story in itself….. I have absolutely nothing to do with church, Christians, or religion, since about 20 years old. (I’m 48)

<To get even more philosophical about it, should a human being need to work on himself/herself at all in the grand scheme of things other than to try to mete out positive validations from society?>

If you are validated, you are validated. Don’t go walking around looking for a pat on the back, that’s not the reason to reform yourself. If you happen to get validated, and like it, there’s some positive reaffirmation in regards to getting that kind of treatment. When it comes to me, I tend to not be a team player, if I’m involved in something, it’s for myself. I do what I’m going to do with or without help…much like personal reform, I did it for me. Probably one key reason it worked.

<I will shut up about it all but I will say one last thing and that is that as I have aged I no longer believe that we make our own luck nor do I believe that we live independent of the validation that good luck and positive results provide or the damnation that bad luck entails.>

You will act, you will choose; the results of those actions will bring you either rewards or consequences. You my friend, need to suck up consequences if you made the wrong choice. “Right or wrong” is relative, yes. However, rewards and consequences are not. One is usually good, the other usually isn’t.

<One more point, if it is my total responsibility to make my own good luck then why am I left off the hook for the creation of my BAD luck? for instance, if I'm sitting at a red light in my car all nice n' legal and some idiot comes up from behind an rear ends me, how is that not my fault? By law it is not my fault, I was there doing everything "right" then this bad thing happened out of nowhere and I was the victim!>

You are also placing irrational blame upon circumstances. Not everything that randomly happens to us is going to be something we like, such as being rear ended while you are at a light. I would wonder if something like that was happening over and over to the same person that they have a curse hovering over their heads. What I tend to feel is that what the normal person deals with in life, sometimes bad things happen to good people, and is that a case of luck or fate? The topic completely misses my point of fixing the fixable, not trying to figure out what hand fate is going to play next.


<So if bad things happen randomly to good people that was something that they made happen?>

We are responsible for how we respond to circumstances. If a good person gets rear ended, and pulls out a gun and shoots the ******* behind them, because they were in the wrong. Is that good person rewarded? Or do they receive consequences for that choice of action.?
 

Kiwong

Well-known member
#89
^ It is very true how luck can create its own problems, Molly, even awful things you could never predict happening.

For me it was getting lucky and being able to run again, that seems like a miracle. But then I started going to races, and tried to interact with people with my anxiety, and some people reacted angrily towards me, and I nearly had a nervous breakdown. That's when I found this site nearly 5 years ago, that was lucky, except for the disagreement I had with posters who no longer frequent this site.

Twenty years ago I got a permanent job in the country, which was lucky. But it has turned out to be one of the worst life choices I ever made, and has led to me developing a mental illness. I moved away from my dad, became isolated.

I think the things that I feel lucky about are the things that make me glad I was born me and no one else. And they are my love of running and nature. Those things outweigh all the shit that continues to happen.
 

S_Spartan

Well-known member
#90
I think you guys are misunderstanding what I meant by validation.

If you do a job for money, the money is a form of validation. If someone asks you to marry them that is a form of validation. I'm not talking about pats on the back but basic validations of existence.

If someone asks you to pass the salt that is a validation that you actually exist and are indeed capable of passing the salt.

I think it is this basic validation that is missing from the lives of so many with social phobia. In order to do much within the framework of society an individual first needs to feel as though he or she actually exists in that society.

"Will + Faith + Purpose = Power"

Interesting theory but here again it's all within a certain framework. A framework that is different for different people.

In fact, each of those concepts will mean something different to different people.

So let's say if everybody in the world was doing this technique and it was worked 100 percent wouldn't you have a big giant stalemate?

So for my will to be carried out successfully somebody else will must be denied?
Isn't this just a twist on the old Machiavellian principles?

So if a person surveys a status quo, decides they don't like it, starts to try to change it but simply cannot for whatever reason(perhaps someone else's will is stronger) then what? Just forget about it?

I think you are assuming that everybody is operating from the same mental place when they are not. People are all over the board as far as "mental health" and yes, even luck is concerned. Add to that the fact that the world is as un-level a playing field as you are going to find anywhere.

I will agree with you that people do have varying degrees of will thus varying levels of influence in the world. Therefore they should exercise that if they choose, or not. But that is not always necessary. You can live a fairly good life sometimes without fighting the status quo. America is a good example. The majority of the people here would say they are sick of the status quo yet it is still good enough for enough people that they would never think of changing it.

Your theories of life and mine are completely opposite actually because as I have aged I have dropped the rigid "rules" in favor of just "being" because in the grand scheme of things none of it matters. Nobody's tombstone will read "he exercised his power regularly." Nobody really cares about any of that.

Of course just "being" doesn't bring in the bucks or get you some good lovin'(unless you can find a hippie chick. But I am not a hippie). Society wants you to be fighting daily battles with yourself AND each other.

Which is really at the very core of man's unhappiness is the socially injected idea that there are winners and losers and prizes to be won and wills to be asserted for your own gain and games to be played.

And if you can't fire on all cylinders then there is obviously something very wrong with you and you should feel depressed about that! Then they will want to see you a couple of times a week for the depression.

And there are the dreams...oh the big dreams and plans that we are supposed to be dreaming as the vastly intelligent creatures that we believe ourselves to be.

Then one day POOF! You are gone and absolutely none of it mattered.

And that is OK.

A rock, can just be.

A Tree, can just be.

The ocean, can just be.

But I, as a human being, must be constantly asserting my will and trying to change things? Why?
 

S_Spartan

Well-known member
#91
For me it was getting lucky and being able to run again, that seems like a miracle.

I must say Kiwong that I think it's great that you can run so far. I took up running last year but can only do a couple miles then I have to stop and that is on flat tracks.
 
#92
But I, as a human being, must be constantly asserting my will and trying to change things? Why?
Actually nobody cares if you do or not. it is totally your right to stay in your current position (unless you're sitting on someone). I think the discussion was about making changes if you are unhappy and don't want to stay that way forever.
 

MollyBeGood

Well-known member
#93
Actually nobody cares if you do or not. it is totally your right to stay in your current position (unless you're sitting on someone). I think the discussion was about making changes if you are unhappy and don't want to stay that way forever.

A lot of the reason I started this thread was for people to feel safe being jaded because of the time they have spent on this planet having doors closed to them all the time-for yrs, not just a few yrs. Having tried something with all your heart for a decade and have it fail is something that you will know only by being older, and trying things. That is why I am unhappy. I have tried and failed for yrs. It does become a joke after awhile, really messes with ones mental state.

It's impossible to know how one will feel after 20 yrs of failure, which is why people in there 20's and 30's are not the people to comment about the subject. Not tryin to be a biotch here but I was trying to avoid this issue by saying that in the thread title.

In Spartans defense-As for someone saying that they did this and that and if you do that you will have the same success is not really helpful in the same way people don't read self help books-they know there is no set formula.

I want older folks to feel ok being jaded and safe talking about it.

I was an idealist in my 20's and some into my 30's and look where it got me. I still am trying though, as that's all any of us can do.
 

S_Spartan

Well-known member
#94
A lot of the reason I started this thread was for people to feel safe being jaded because of the time they have spent on this planet having doors closed to them all the time-for yrs, not just a few yrs. Having tried something with all your heart for a decade and have it fail is something that you will know only by being older, and trying things. That is why I am unhappy. I have tried and failed for yrs. It does become a joke after awhile, really messes with ones mental state.

It's impossible to know how one will feel after 20 yrs of failure, which is why people in there 20's and 30's are not the people to comment about the subject. Not tryin to be a biotch here but I was trying to avoid this issue by saying that in the thread title.

In Spartans defense-As for someone saying that they did this and that and if you do that you will have the same success is not really helpful in the same way people don't read self help books-they know there is no set formula.

I want older folks to feel ok being jaded and safe talking about it.

I was an idealist in my 20's and some into my 30's and look where it got me. I still am trying though, as that's all any of us can do.

I agree with all of that. I will tell anybody that I am jaded. It's what I feel I need to be at the moment. I'm not ashamed of it.

The way I see it, it's not like the world is some magical playground, constant party of a place and if you are tired of it there must be something wrong with you. The world is really very ugly. Sure there is beauty and I'm thankful for that but I think that mostly the world is an ugly and hostile place and I'm not just talking about people. The earth has never gone out of it's way to make sure that things are safe for every single living creature. If the earth had a human personality I would title it as "indifferent". But here I go again getting philosophical.

In my 20s and early 30s I was quite the idealist. I even read the self help books and even the grandaddy of them all Dale Carnegie's "Think and Grow Rich." It's all made up crap. And at their very core all of those books are very narcissistic in nature. But it made those writers some money. I'm sure that some people followed the advice in those books, got lucky, and attributed their success to the books.

I'm glad you started this thread, Molly! There are things that only older people can truly understand because it takes experience.

My worldview in my 20s and 30s was very, very different from now.
 

MollyBeGood

Well-known member
#96
I agree with all of that. I will tell anybody that I am jaded. It's what I feel I need to be at the moment. I'm not ashamed of it.

The way I see it, it's not like the world is some magical playground, constant party of a place and if you are tired of it there must be something wrong with you. The world is really very ugly. Sure there is beauty and I'm thankful for that but I think that mostly the world is an ugly and hostile place and I'm not just talking about people. The earth has never gone out of it's way to make sure that things are safe for every single living creature. If the earth had a human personality I would title it as "indifferent". But here I go again getting philosophical.

In my 20s and early 30s I was quite the idealist. I even read the self help books and even the grandaddy of them all Dale Carnegie's "Think and Grow Rich." It's all made up crap. And at their very core all of those books are very narcissistic in nature. But it made those writers some money. I'm sure that some people followed the advice in those books, got lucky, and attributed their success to the books.

I'm glad you started this thread, Molly! There are things that only older people can truly understand because it takes experience.

My worldview in my 20s and 30s was very, very different from now.
LoL Barf Barf I have a copy of that damn book, too. My brother shoved it on me though so I claim innocent! The same brother who gave me "The stupid things women do to mess up their lives" By Dr. Laura. Needlesstosay (is that one word?) he's not my fave person in this world-but yeah he's rich! Kiss the ring he say. Kiss the ring. Kinda like bend over and take it right?
 

morrowrd

Active member
#97
<I was an idealist in my 20's and some into my 30's and look where it got me. I still am trying though, as that's all any of us can do.>

Although Pacific loner was simply trying to help clarify points I was trying to make that spartan was picking apart. I don't see this as an attack on him. Kind of reminds me of several types of people I have met over the years, who were unemployed and were venting about there "not being any jobs out there." This just happened, I was at a birthday party and someone I knew from way back was there, venting about needing work. He had applications out everywhere...so he said. Spoke about how he had been looking for a year, and couldn't find anything. After awhile, I pulled him aside and offered him work. Then, his tone changed, wasn't as desperate as I thought. Didn't like the hours, and while the pay was good, he felt he should be earning more because his last job paid him x amount an hour, and that's what he wanted. I simply said ok, and left it alone.

At this website, there are scores of stories about people struggling with anti social behavior due to a number of reasons. And unless it is a medical reason, most of this is classic conditioning that can be undone. Many of the stories involve people unhappy, going through life looking at what others have, and thinking its out of their reach. As a teen ager, I had such a horrible frustrating time struggling with things like not understanding what people were saying to me, not having the ability to communicate myself appropriately, was bullied....and this continued well into my twenties. I started personal reform at around age 30, it took about ten years to get it right.

My purpose for sharing it here, is to help people. Not waste my time debating the theories about failure. I was in a deep pit myself, and I wanted out. If Mr. Spartan wants to stay there, he obviously will. Don't post replies indicating I am selling snake oil, this is nothing more than trial and error, and a system I came up with for change.

Isn't that what role modeling is about? Helping others to get through life by sharing, helping others who are not as mature, or who want to succeed? We seem to tell our children this, others this, but when we come online, we dismiss the role models as interfering with our rights.

I'm trying to help, not waste time debating what I am sharing. I will take time to clarify points, but I am under the impression that Mr. Spartan here, is more interested in looking at advice under a microscope and debating it, than finding help for others. Obviously he doesn't think, or want, help for himself. And there are a bunch of those at these sites too, addicted to whining about life and what they don't have but others have. Which reminds me about the person/s I have met whom I mentioned, whined about not being able to find work, yet the actual truth is that they DON'T really want work.
 
#98
A lot of the reason I started this thread was for people to feel safe being jaded because of the time they have spent on this planet having doors closed to them all the time-for yrs, not just a few yrs. Having tried something with all your heart for a decade and have it fail is something that you will know only by being older, and trying things. That is why I am unhappy. I have tried and failed for yrs. It does become a joke after awhile, really messes with ones mental state.

It's impossible to know how one will feel after 20 yrs of failure, which is why people in there 20's and 30's are not the people to comment about the subject. Not tryin to be a biotch here but I was trying to avoid this issue by saying that in the thread title.

In Spartans defense-As for someone saying that they did this and that and if you do that you will have the same success is not really helpful in the same way people don't read self help books-they know there is no set formula.

I want older folks to feel ok being jaded and safe talking about it.

I was an idealist in my 20's and some into my 30's and look where it got me. I still am trying though, as that's all any of us can do.
Yeah I confess I was feeling guilty for posting here, I just couldn't help it because it annoys me when people spend so much energy pushing away something that could actually be helpful. I feel like if they would spend the same amount of energy trying to help themself, they would be king of the universe.

Anyway I'm really sorry, I didn't want to disturb your thread. I'm off now :D
 
#99
I used to be even more jaded than I am now, but that was before I sort of gave up on trying to measure my success by other people's standards. It's so much more depressing to hear about how I could be doing this or that to make more money or to use my 'talents' or to make an impact and have the kind of life I'm supposed to want and so many people take for granted is the key indicator of 'living life to the fullest'. Human beings aren't meant to live the way we're living now, we're meant to be content with the basics... food, shelter, love, art, mystery... all of this science and technology stuff and the endless emphasis being placed on it by the commercial corporatized culture we're living in is toxic... we would do a lot better with healthier food than the medicine we need to fix the effects of what we eat, with smaller, closer communities instead of larger anonymous ones, with walking instead of cars, etc... I really have to question whether or not we're better off now than in pre-industrial society... I would say overall it has probably been a net loss.

And there is nothing more depressing than constantly scrutinizing your existence according to some generic criteria to make sure it conforms... and upon finding it doesn't, dismissing yourself as a failure. I wish more people were more creative than that and better at challenging these assumptions and coming together in more unique ways, as opposed to just floating along or relying on others to organize them and put them where they're supposed to be, but this seems to be the trend especially among younger people, and sometimes I even see it in myself...

I'm not 40 yet but I'm getting there.

Haha that was my rant for today.
 
Last edited:

S_Spartan

Well-known member
<I was an idealist in my 20's and some into my 30's and look where it got me. I still am trying though, as that's all any of us can do.>

Although Pacific loner was simply trying to help clarify points I was trying to make that spartan was picking apart. I don't see this as an attack on him. Kind of reminds me of several types of people I have met over the years, who were unemployed and were venting about there "not being any jobs out there." This just happened, I was at a birthday party and someone I knew from way back was there, venting about needing work. He had applications out everywhere...so he said. Spoke about how he had been looking for a year, and couldn't find anything. After awhile, I pulled him aside and offered him work. Then, his tone changed, wasn't as desperate as I thought. Didn't like the hours, and while the pay was good, he felt he should be earning more because his last job paid him x amount an hour, and that's what he wanted. I simply said ok, and left it alone.

At this website, there are scores of stories about people struggling with anti social behavior due to a number of reasons. And unless it is a medical reason, most of this is classic conditioning that can be undone. Many of the stories involve people unhappy, going through life looking at what others have, and thinking its out of their reach. As a teen ager, I had such a horrible frustrating time struggling with things like not understanding what people were saying to me, not having the ability to communicate myself appropriately, was bullied....and this continued well into my twenties. I started personal reform at around age 30, it took about ten years to get it right.

My purpose for sharing it here, is to help people. Not waste my time debating the theories about failure. I was in a deep pit myself, and I wanted out. If Mr. Spartan wants to stay there, he obviously will. Don't post replies indicating I am selling snake oil, this is nothing more than trial and error, and a system I came up with for change.

Isn't that what role modeling is about? Helping others to get through life by sharing, helping others who are not as mature, or who want to succeed? We seem to tell our children this, others this, but when we come online, we dismiss the role models as interfering with our rights.

I'm trying to help, not waste time debating what I am sharing. I will take time to clarify points, but I am under the impression that Mr. Spartan here, is more interested in looking at advice under a microscope and debating it, than finding help for others. Obviously he doesn't think, or want, help for himself. And there are a bunch of those at these sites too, addicted to whining about life and what they don't have but others have. Which reminds me about the person/s I have met whom I mentioned, whined about not being able to find work, yet the actual truth is that they DON'T really want work.
I don't remember anyone on this thread clamoring for help when you entered. You just sort of entered assuming we were broken people who needed saved.

You are making assumptions about me also. You don't even know me. I've never said that I wanted or needed help.

Can't adults have a safe place to vent? Or is the need to vent a sign of mental weakness?

And just as you have seen whiners on the internet, I have seen countless "saviors" on the internet. People who come in with egos ablaze ready to assert their doctrines about life and to show the "broken" people the "right" way.

So of course when someone comes in saying "I can teach you how to live" I am going to put that person under a microscope.

I'm not being mean it's just that's a mighty large claim to make in a public forum!

And it is a bit egotistical, in my opinion, to assume that a system that has worked for you WILL work for everyone and then get defensive when someone questions that.

We have no proof other than your word. We don't know you at all!

But I think your intentions are good. And I have seen many people on this site literally write "help me!!!" so there ya go!

On a personal note, I have espoused a method similar to what Odo has described. Basically I have stopped caring so much about things and am learning how just to "be" and most importantly how to BE IN THE MOMENT.

The world is a loose place and I'm learning how to be loose along with it.

The more I loosen up the better I feel and the better I get along with people, even in a business setting.

Has my life turned out how I had always dreamed it would? Of course not! But that is OK. I'm having more fun.

I have also learned to embrace my dark side. Which is an ok thing to do as long as you are not hurting anybody. Everybody has a dark side but most people hide it away. They aren't honest about it.

I will never understand this Amercan obsession with being happy all the time. There is even that awful song now proclaiming "I'M HAPPY!" We are the land of Zombie Optimists.

And there's my ramblins for the day.
 
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