Fasting to cure mental illness

cosmosis

Well-known member
There is nothing wrong with fasting!!!! If is done properly, so where do people get the assumption that fasting is bad?. It isn't it!!. I heard people who have done it and then start eating healthy once their body detox all of the toxic they had in their bodies etc. I believe that the people who are saying that fasting is bad is because they are just concentrating on the EATING ASPECT. People have been doing this for centuries!!

Yeah no kidding. This isn't a recent fad by any means. The recent fad is that many people don't fast.

I think the problem is that people think about it wrong. They remember that time when dinner was late and they were shaky, horribly hungry, weak and felt horrible and think that is what fasting is - but X 100.

When I did my first proper 3 day fast, I was utterly shocked at how little hunger I felt. I could actually tell my body was relieved at not eating for once. The 2nd day I felt sick due to my body playing catch up. Still not hungry though. The 3rd day I woke up and I felt so great with tons of energy. Possibly the best I've ever felt. Completely symptom free.

But like Lea said. It is like fire. It can be a great help if used wisely, but too much or improper fasting and it can be damaging. Ultimately you should trust your body to know what it wants.
 
Talk about 'toxins' always kind of made me think, huh? But there really are toxins in the food we eat - plants evolved to have all kinds of natural pesticides and things to defend themselves against being eaten, and livers are there to detoxify them. So it does make sense that fasting would give your body a break from them.

Actually our regular diets are probably pretty unnatural - our genes are probably more designed for fluctuations in the amount of food we get. Makes me want to try fasting sometime! :)
 

Riiya

Well-known member
Talk about 'toxins' always kind of made me think, huh? But there really are toxins in the food we eat - plants evolved to have all kinds of natural pesticides and things to defend themselves against being eaten, and livers are there to detoxify them. So it does make sense that fasting would give your body a break from them.

Actually our regular diets are probably pretty unnatural - our genes are probably more designed for fluctuations in the amount of food we get. Makes me want to try fasting sometime! :)

Honestly, I'm not convinced. Pesticides may not be good for our bodies, but is fasting really going to solve whatever problem there is? I obviously could be wrong, but I really, really don't think this whole detox business works the way you think it does.

I think those who are considering fasting to be "healthy" should evaluate what they mean exactly by being "healthy." Does it mean living longer? Does it mean feeling better about yourself? Either way, in the bigger scheme of things fasting (alone) shouldn't make that much difference. Fast or not fast, do what you want.
 
I think those who are considering fasting to be "healthy" should evaluate what they mean exactly by being "healthy." Does it mean living longer? Does it mean feeling better about yourself? Either way, in the bigger scheme of things fasting (alone) shouldn't make that much difference.

Yeah, there are a bunch of different reasons for fasting going on in this thread - obviously I don't think it would 'cure' social phobia. I was thinking in terms of physical health, and possibly mental effects. Like maybe giving your liver a break every now and then is good for it. And maybe your brain would benefit as well. I think it would be interesting to try it, at least.

It's not really fasting, but when they feed rats on restricted diets they live like 30% longer. There are some people trying that kind of diet, but it doesn't really look like fun to me.
 

Riiya

Well-known member
It's not really fasting, but when they feed rats on restricted diets they live like 30% longer. There are some people trying that kind of diet, but it doesn't really look like fun to me.

Consistent restricted diet is theoretically better than the occasional fasting, although I'm sure those mice lived longer for other reasons, too.
 
Consistent restricted diet is theoretically better than the occasional fasting, although I'm sure those mice lived longer for other reasons, too.

Huh? What other reasons? I think they originally did it with worms or something, then rats, and now they're trying it with primates. And some crazy humans are trying it, but the one guy I saw in a video looked super skinny and looked like his metabolism was running really slowly.

It's probably due to your metabolism practically shutting down, waiting for food sources to come back.
 

Riiya

Well-known member
I was curious, so I looked around and found this: Longevity from Calorie-Restriction Diet Questioned | LiveScience

As far as fasting is concerned, I found this paragraph in particular interesting:

The most significant finding from this study, however, is that the diet lowered the metabolic rates of both types of mice. The leading theory has been that a slower metabolic rate—and the subsequent lower rate of oxygen consumption and lower rate of free-radical production—was the cause for the increased longevity. This theory is now up in the air.

Fasting indeed slows down your metabolic rate, and I wonder if that's where people got the idea that fasting is the healthy way to go.
 

Morgan01

Well-known member
When I am fasting or am underweight, I keep having strange experiences at night. I don´t actually think it´s only hallucinations. As Paul Brunton wrote in his notebooks: "Psychical dangers usually don´t occur except of fasts longer than 3 and a half day. The greatest danger is negative state or mediumity which opens the mind to the influence of other people and body to the control of not incarnated beings. No aspirant who already manifests medial tendencies should fast for more than 2-3 consecutive days."

This seems to be exactly what I am having. It is as if I was leaving my body or was manipulated by some strange energy, sometimes flying. (Several times it happened to me that I flew out through closed window). My body gets actually manipulated and posessed by that strange energy. It moves it, pushes, makes me walk or fly or I am stone paralyzed and tortured by strange beings. Sometimes i don´t even see them, only feel them as energy. They crawl on my blanket while I´m paralyzed, or I am being touched by disgusting hands. Once one monster told me: "you say no and we say yes" and grasped with hand, but I couldn´t do anything because I was paralyzed.

Once I had a dream when I was on the hill in town and I joined a group of young people on motorbikes dressed in black. We went to the church. On the stage there was some lunatic leader dressed in white, jumped around like mad and it was evident he had serious mental illness. I felt something evil in him and in the church. I somehow woke up to the fact that I was actually there and asked the people: and you, who are you at all? Suddenly the evil feeling got so strong that it was almost palpable, I tried to run away but could not move, only very slowly like running in water and eventually I took off the ground. Then I woke up, dizzy head, psychedelic feeling but it was so strong that I felt asleep again. There was one girl from the church kneeling on my chest and saying: "So here we are again, aren´t we" and touched my face, eventually tried to squeeze my nose to suffocate me.

When I´m dieting or underweight, I have these experiences once every few nights, but it´s strongest by full moon. I can almost feel its energy and once I even woke up because there was such a powerfull blast through the window of the moon energy. At times like this I am absolutely certain that this is something "out of this world" (or how to describe it). I also hear voices, once I heard some man laughing and once even one whole sentence, I can remember word by word. Usualy the dreams accompanied by this "energy" are evil or have some occult symbolism in them. I have plenty interesting stories but it would be too long and unfortunately I have forgotten a lot because I don´t write it down.
I want to add yet, I don´t feel the energies of the moon when is wet or raining, as if there was no conductivity in the air.

(sorry for my english, I know it´s horrible)

I think this posts proves that fasting definitely does not cure mental illness.
 

cosmosis

Well-known member
Honestly, I'm not convinced. Pesticides may not be good for our bodies, but is fasting really going to solve whatever problem there is? I obviously could be wrong, but I really, really don't think this whole detox business works the way you think it does.

Fasting indeed slows down your metabolic rate, and I wonder if that's where people got the idea that fasting is the healthy way to go.

Why is it so hard for people to understand why fasting can be good under the right circumstances. Of course its not a quick fix. Nothing in this world is.

Think about Diabetes. Diabetes is caused by too much of an insulin response from all the sugar over time.

Think about Cancer. Cancer is caused by your body not being about to detox or remove something toxic properly. If you go out in the sun too much, your body might not be able to handle the damage eventually. If you smoke too much, your body can't detox it all long term and your cells begin to break down.

Think about pesiticides, refined sugars, difficult to digest things like cassins and glutens and you run into the same problems as what causes diabetes and cancer.

Your liver has to continually work. And there is some measure of backlog for every person, unless you are superman. And if you don't let it rest and possibly catch up and do some house cleansing, you increase the chance that something will stop working properly.

But there is no scientific debate about what your liver does and what happens when its overburdened.

I agree that it's possible that a restricted diet may be better for some. But to say outright that you really really think that fasting doesn't work like that without any scientific basis, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
 
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Thelema

Well-known member
Oh come on Thelema. This isn't some wacky theory. In a normal day your body is working hard for you at night digesting the days food, your liver and kidneys are hard at work processing the foods. They don't stop. Unless you give it a small break.

For most people this isn't an issue of course if you are already strong and healthy. Your body can handle the continual load.



Please don't put words in my mouth. I never once said food is bad or evil.



I hope you do realize that there are MANY athelete that fast all the time. Many even do it right before competition. I wouldn't recommend that though.



Ha! I really shouldn't even be responding to this. It honestly feels like a troll, even though you are a moderator?

You seriously don't know what difficult food are? Have you ever had a greasy pizza or gone to carls jr? Have you ever had a night of indigestion, acid reflux, diarrhea, upset stomach? As you get older you get more and more of these issues because your internal organs arn't as fast and strong as they used to be.



Wow. Just wow. Funny and offensive at the same time. Have you ever put on the news and seen them talk about pollution? Yeah, that's a bit toxic for people :) Have you ever heard them talk about how overstressed we all are with our jobs and livestyles? Yeah, stress is also toxic for people :) Where were you in your health class?

Ooo yeah, fear the evil spirits! Just look at those mythical pollution spirits that light up LA's sunset /end of sarcasm.



Spoken from a person who has NEVER done a fast in his entire life.

Do you realize that when you do a PROPER FAST you don't feel any hunger at all? That is the biggest confusion people have with fasts.

When I eat normally, I have incredible hunger between meals because of the fluctuations of blood sugar levels. If I go on a fast, the blood sugar and other processes stabalizes and you don't even feel the slightest bit of hunger. And yes of course, if you do an extended fast, you eventually will feel true hunger. But it's a lot longer than you think.

If eating those kinds of foods is bad for you, you stop eating them...you don't stop eating!

I've never hard of "MANY athelete", funny name he has. Link me to his website. If you're burning 15,000 calories a day and you stop eating, your body will break down. You wouldn't have the energy to walk down the street, much less run 20 miles.

Toxins are a new age woo woo scam. On the exact same scientific footing as evil spirits. You always have so many toxins and you need their products or books to get rid of these things you didn't even knew you had, before they were so gracious to tell you. First they convince you you're sick and then, you're in luck, they have the cure!

It's funny that doctors-real doctors-aren't telling people they need to "cleanse their toxins". It's only the people that have books to sell or some unscientific snake oil.

Show me the science behind cleansing these "toxins" and show me the science that starving yourself is going to do it.

Feeling hungry is the bodies signal it needs some food, it's the most natural thing in the world. If you never feel hungry, you should really see a doctor. Never feeling hungry isn't an accomplishment.
 

Thelema

Well-known member
Yeah, there are a bunch of different reasons for fasting going on in this thread - obviously I don't think it would 'cure' social phobia. I was thinking in terms of physical health, and possibly mental effects. Like maybe giving your liver a break every now and then is good for it. And maybe your brain would benefit as well. I think it would be interesting to try it, at least.

It's not really fasting, but when they feed rats on restricted diets they live like 30% longer. There are some people trying that kind of diet, but it doesn't really look like fun to me.

Look for scientific backing of these mysterious "toxins" in our bodies that are supposedly the cause of all our problems. We all have weird substances that shouldn't be there, but that doesn't mean they're killing us and it doesn't mean starving yourself gets rid of them.

That study is suspicious to me. I suspect that an active person burning more calories from activity is going to be healthier than a person that eats less and never gets off the couch. Jack Lalanne works out 2 hours a day and he's in his 90s and healthy as ever
 

cosmosis

Well-known member
If eating those kinds of foods is bad for you, you stop eating them...you don't stop eating!

I've never hard of "MANY athelete", funny name he has. Link me to his website. If you're burning 15,000 calories a day and you stop eating, your body will break down. You wouldn't have the energy to walk down the street, much less run 20 miles.

Toxins are a new age woo woo scam. On the exact same scientific footing as evil spirits. You always have so many toxins and you need their products or books to get rid of these things you didn't even knew you had, before they were so gracious to tell you. First they convince you you're sick and then, you're in luck, they have the cure!

It's funny that doctors-real doctors-aren't telling people they need to "cleanse their toxins". It's only the people that have books to sell or some unscientific snake oil.

Show me the science behind cleansing these "toxins" and show me the science that starving yourself is going to do it.

Feeling hungry is the bodies signal it needs some food, it's the most natural thing in the world. If you never feel hungry, you should really see a doctor. Never feeling hungry isn't an accomplishment.

I totally agree that people take advantage of detoxing. People take advantage of every single thing to make money. Welcome to the world. But you are dead wrong if you think that because people take advantage of it, it makes it completely false. By your logic, germs are a lie because people sell all types of soap. By your logic, bacteria can't exist, because drug companies make a shit load of money off antibiotics.

You see, you have this thing called a liver. Google it for me. Find out what that little magical thing does.

When you do you will find out that your liver is designed to rid your body of 'toxins'. That's why alcoholics have liver damage. Their liver can't keep up with all the toxins in alcohol. Most foods likewise have parts that need to be detoxified with the liver. And yes, this is actual basic science you learn is the 2nd grade.

Did you read what I wrote? I said I don't feel hunger ON A FAST. And most people don't either if they do it right. You don't understand at all what a fast is. When done right, you body gladly lets go of hunger temporarily. If it was so wrong, your body would tell you, it doesn't.

Also ask yourself why people typically don't feel hungry when sick. With your logic and thinking, your body should be so incredibly hungry when sick because of all the work it has to do. But it never is. Maybe it's precisely because your body is working so hard, it doesnt want to process any more food (temporarily). Maybe there are times when your body is asking for a temporarily break perhaps?
 
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Thelema

Well-known member
I totally agree that people take advantage of detoxing. People take advantage of every single thing to make money. Welcome to the world. But you are dead wrong if you think that because people take advantage of it, it makes it completely false. By your logic, germs are a lie because people sell all types of soap. By your logic, bacteria can't exist, because drug companies make a shit load of money off antibiotics.

You see, you have this thing called a liver. Google it for me. Find out what that little magical thing does.

When you do you will find out that your liver is designed to rid your body of 'toxins'. That's why alcoholics have liver damage. Their liver can't keep up with all the toxins in alcohol. Most foods likewise have parts that need to be detoxified with the liver. And yes, this is actual basic science you learn is the 2nd grade.

Did you read what I wrote? I said I don't feel hunger ON A FAST. And most people don't either if they do it right. You don't understand at all what a fast is. When done right, you body gladly lets go of hunger temporarily. If it was so wrong, your body would tell you, it doesn't.

Also ask yourself why people typically don't feel hungry when sick. With your logic and thinking, your body should be so incredibly hungry when sick because of all the work it has to do. But it never is. Maybe it's precisely because your body is working so hard, it doesnt want to process any more food (temporarily). Maybe there are times when your body is asking for a temporarily break perhaps?

I can look in a microscope and see germs, I can see the effects of antibiotics first hand. Show me the science behind this detoxifying magic. Show me.


"Western medicine scoffs at the notion that fasting is necessary to ''detoxify'' the body.

''People think there's a whole bunch of junk floating around in their bodies,'' says dietician Ward. That's nonsense - the liver, kidneys, colon and sweat glands do a great job of waste control. If you want to do something extra, eat more fiber.

You're also fooling yourself if you think fasting will jump start a weight-loss program. Fasting is a lousy way to lose weight - the metabolism slows down so much that when you start eating again, you'll gain weight faster than before.

It is true that fasting may give you a sense of control, says New York psychologist Sandra Haber, who specializes in eating disorders. Many people complain that they can't control their spouse, their work, their kids, or their feelings, and that the only thing they do have control over is food intake, she says.

But if control is the issue, ''you're better off going after it directly,'' she says. In other words, ''Let's talk.''

It is also true that fasting may give you an emotional high. Part of this may come from the stress of early starvation, which triggers adrenalin. And part may be a sense of ''doing penance'' and being ''spiritually clean,'' says Larry Lindner, executive editor of the Tufts University Health & Nutrition Letter.

But fasting can also make you grumpy and weak. Reached on Day 10 of his fast, Purcell was in good spirits, but felt weak climbing stairs and admitted that Day 3, when he had dry heaves, had been ''very difficult.'' He was pleasantly surprised, though, that hunger was not a problem.

....

Fasting - the voluntary abstinence from food - is probably as old as the urge for self-control and spiritual purification, and whether it achieves those ends is a subjective judgment.

But proponents of fasting often claim it has medical benefits, too, like ''detoxification,'' healing auto-immune diseases, losing weight, and restoring bodily harmony. Does it?

With some important qualifiers, the mainstream answer is no.

''Fasting is not good for you medically,'' says Dr. George Blackburn, a Harvard nutritionist. ''There's no such thing as a therapeutic fast.''

Fasting ''sounds like it would cleanse you, but there's really no science to it,'' adds Elizabeth Ward, a registered dietician and spokeswoman for the American Dietetic Association.

''Fasting is basically bad news,'' agrees physiologist Susan Roberts, head of the energy metabolism lab at Tufts University's human nutrition research center.

The reason they are so emphatic is this: When you stop eating completely, even if you take in plenty of water, you start breaking down protein - muscles - almost immediately.

For the first 12 to 16 hours of total abstinence, there's enough glycogen - stored sugar - in the liver to keep your brain, the chief consumer of energy, happy.

But during the next day and a half, the body makes glucose from amino acids stolen from muscle protein. At first, you lose protein from inside a muscle cell, which can be replaced. But soon, whole cells disappear, and they're hard to replace.

After two days of abstinence, the body does begin burning fat for energy, but it takes 21 days before you adapt sufficiently to starvation that you stop losing protein. Granted, the body's ability to switch from burning glucose to burning fat is a wonderful evolutionary adaptation that has undoubtedly aided survival when starvation, not obesity, was the chief threat.

But burning fat also produces ketone bodies, snippets of fatty acids, that can dehydrate you, give you bad breath and, some nutritionists think, have toxic metabolic effects.

It's true you can live this way for more than 40 days, perhaps even 100, if you're healthy and drink water. But ultimately, of course, if you don't eat, you die. "

Boston Globe Online / Health | Science / If you feel urge to fast, keep it short
 

Rodox

Well-known member
I doubt it would help with mental illness and if you arent eating a lot I doubt its harmful,just moderate on eating and drinking,I heard that after a while you stopped eating you will start to go gaga,dont know if its true.
 
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Lea

Banned
I think this posts proves that fasting definitely does not cure mental illness.

Thanks :D. Anyway you´re right - I am mentally ill (that´s why I am on this site after all ;)). But I don´t think everybody would have experiences like this if they would fast. It´s probably because I have taken lot of halucinogens some time ago and I guess this is why I am more susceptible to the astral (or how to call it) now. And I don´t think this sensitivity is bad by itself, sometimes when there is full moon and I am awake (not even hungry or dieting), I get almost psychedelic feeling, as if I have drunk something again. I feel this strong energy pulsating through my body and it gets so light that it almost disappears. It is very pleasant. Or there was one place in India where I had this, the energy was so strong that it was incredible - and during the daytime (without dieting even). I was then searching in internet what it could be - are there some places with magnetic anomalies perhaps?
The evil spirits - it´s because when you are susceptible like this, they can "enter". The sensitivity by itself is not bad. And of course they do enter, there is lot of trash in the astral world :).
 

WeirdGirl

Member
We all have weird substances that shouldn't be there, but that doesn't mean they're killing us.


''People think there's a whole bunch of junk floating around in their bodies,'' says dietician Ward. That's nonsense - the liver, kidneys, colon and sweat glands do a great job of waste control. If you want to do something extra, eat more fiber.



I'm sure these substances will not kill us either. Maybe they are having an adverse effect on our bodies... maybe bringing about mental & physical illness??

In this age the average person's liver is not the size and shape it should be. doctors are finding mutated livers swollen to 2 or 3 times the normal size. Is this because of modern diets and modern way of life, the daily ingesting of synthetic chemicals that place a huge burden of our organs.

Yes our livers will naturally detoxify, but can a liver detoxify to a good standard under todays way of life??
 

NormanBates

Well-known member
Eastern medicine beleives that the liver governs mood

Bitter melon is good for the liver.
They eat it in asia and central america.
You could probably call around your supermarkets and see if anyone sells it.
Including things in your diet that are good for liver may help I suppose. Along with other things.
Its just like how they say the eyes are a manifestation of the liver - and people who are heavy alcoholics have ugly looking eyes, as well as ugly looking livers. Both turn yellow.
 
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Thelema

Well-known member
I'm sure these substances will not kill us either. Maybe they are having an adverse effect on our bodies... maybe bringing about mental & physical illness??

In this age the average person's liver is not the size and shape it should be. doctors are finding mutated livers swollen to 2 or 3 times the normal size. Is this because of modern diets and modern way of life, the daily ingesting of synthetic chemicals that place a huge burden of our organs.

Yes our livers will naturally detoxify, but can a liver detoxify to a good standard under todays way of life??

That's for scientists to discover. I doubt a guy that chants all day and starves his body regularly knows more about the human body than all of modern medical science. I bet if they opened a book on anatomy, they'd be as dumbfounded as any average person.

I don't want to even think that somebody would believe some weird hippie selling a book over someone that has dedicated their life to the advancement of our medical understanding. Hundreds of years of the smartest men in the World being trumped by a skinny guy that suddenly decided he wanted to sell some books on invisible things called "toxins" that nobody has ever seen. Woe is us.

Obviously there are many many things we want to keep out of our body, but just because somebody says "toxins" doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. They use that word to explain something even they don't have a concrete concept of. It would be as scientific to tell you that evil spirits occupy your body.

Without synthetic chemicals the world would be very different. Synthetic is something man made, so without it say goodbye to vaccines and medicine. Without chemistry...that's not even something we can even imagine because of all the facets of our life it has played a role.

Just because something says natural doesn't mean it's good. You know lead is natural, snake bites are natural, there are many many plants that will easily kill you if eaten. Something man made doesn't make it bad and something from nature doesn't make it, in of itself, good.

If you look in to fat guy's organs, everything is going to be bad. They can reverse it, but fasting isn't the way to do it and any doctor would agree.
 
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