Wierd Social Phobia

andydownunder

New member
Hi,

I have searched and searched on google and still not sure how to get rid of this social phobia or a problem I have.

My problem is I cannot make eye contact with women if their cleavage is showing.

I mean no disrespect.

I mean even if its tiny bit I have very hard time making eye contact while talking with them.

This problem was not that big until I moved overseas to Australia.

In india as its more of a conservative atmosphere I was able to hide this phobia.

In a professional work environment I am mostly scared to deal with women as this phobia does not allow me to be normal.

I don't know how to get around this.

I am shy normally with women even if they are covered from head to toe but I can talk have a conversation.

How do I get around this?
 

hidwell

Well-known member
Staring at women's breasts is pretty standard behaviour for many Australian blokes. Apart from averting your eyes, good luck with that. :giggle:
 

Lamb

Well-known member
Hello andydownunder,

Could you try staring at her eyebrow, her nose, as close to her face as possible? Maybe try glancing around at different facial areas and the enviornment so it isn't too obvious.

Maybe wear a rubberband you can pull to snap yourself out of it, a watch you can twist- something like that.

It is a pretty common action though. And most females don't mind, as long as you're not caught staring. Glancing every so often is fine, if you're worried they're going to think you're weird.
 
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andydownunder

New member
Yes i do not stare, I think just the thought of me getting caught staring is soo scary that I am very unsettled.

I try looking in their eyes but that only works for a second or two then I look around or above their heads or so on a so forth and imagine me doing this while discussing some complex work related stuff.

How stupid I look?

Rarely but I have seen because of this behavior some women adjust their dress and thats it I want to dig up a hole and bury myself.

Thanks for the suggestions but I have tried many things.

If I am wearing sunglasses I am fine and I am not even starting behind the glasses but just having that sense of security is good.

In office cant wear sunnies :(
 

Lamb

Well-known member
Yes i do not stare, I think just the thought of me getting caught staring is soo scary that I am very unsettled.

I try looking in their eyes but that only works for a second or two then I look around or above their heads or so on a so forth and imagine me doing this while discussing some complex work related stuff.

How stupid I look?

Rarely but I have seen because of this behavior some women adjust their dress and thats it I want to dig up a hole and bury myself.

Thanks for the suggestions but I have tried many things.

If I am wearing sunglasses I am fine and I am not even starting behind the glasses but just having that sense of security is good.

In office cant wear sunnies :(

Going back to your first sentence then, you have been caught. And what has happened to you? Nothing terrible. I think you should remind yourself of this over and over.

As for the workplace, regarding talking about complex work related things- I think it's great that you're able to manage the ability to still think and speak if this is something that makes you very uneasy. You're not freezing up, it could be alot worse.
This might be less noticeable than you think it is.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, I'm sure other people will post with some insight.
 
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gazelle

Well-known member
This seems like self-fulfilling prophecy. Since you mention that you've been brought up in a conservative atmosphere, it's probably more improper in your country to do this. Hence you're probably being overly cautious in your mind not to do this which is resulting in the opposite? Try accepting it as being normal for women to be dressed like that. Just like the men who live in tribes where it's even normal for women to be bare-chested.
 

ImNotMyIllness

Well-known member
Hi,

I have searched and searched on google and still not sure how to get rid of this social phobia or a problem I have.

My problem is I cannot make eye contact with women if their cleavage is showing.

I mean no disrespect.

I mean even if its tiny bit I have very hard time making eye contact while talking with them.

This problem was not that big until I moved overseas to Australia.

In india as its more of a conservative atmosphere I was able to hide this phobia.

In a professional work environment I am mostly scared to deal with women as this phobia does not allow me to be normal.

I don't know how to get around this.

I am shy normally with women even if they are covered from head to toe but I can talk have a conversation.

How do I get around this?

This could easily turn into an obsessive compulsive behavior if you're not careful. What you first need to understand is that there is nothing wrong with looking at a woman's cleavage. Staring for a long time is another story. But glancing is fine. I have no problem with glancing at a woman's cleavage. But, I'm not obsessed with looking or not looking at it because I DON'T FEEL IT'S A SHAMEFUL ACT. You attach shame to it, which leads to guilt. This of course leads to fear which creates a very bad cycle.

You're not in India anymore. Women in the west are sexually liberated and are equal to men (at least that's the goal). There is NO SHAME in a woman showing cleavage and there is NO SHAME in you looking. JUST DON'T TOUCH or make derogatory comments. It's that easy.
 

Kiwong

Well-known member
Nothing weird about your phobia, Andydown under. I have the same problem, there is no attraction whatsoever, just fear of embarrassment. I also have problems with not looking at bare feet, arm hair, stray bits of clothing, rings, earrings, sleepy eyes, withered arms.

I know exaclty what you are going through. It is a fear of don't look at that, you will annoy them, they'll think you are weird. And of course you can't help but look. It's like saying dopn't touch the delete button on the computer, and then that is all you can think about.

I'm not sure what I can say to help except you're not alone. I also wear sunnies when I can and my anxiety isn't nearly as bad.

What can happen if you annoy someone, you get called a sleaze or a perve. Gossip gets set on fire, and pretty soon you become almost less than human. That can be terrible.

Practice, densensitisation.
 
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theoutsider

Well-known member
Yes i do not stare, I think just the thought of me getting caught staring is soo scary that I am very unsettled.

I try looking in their eyes but that only works for a second or two then I look around or above their heads or so on a so forth and imagine me doing this while discussing some complex work related stuff.

How stupid I look?

Rarely but I have seen because of this behavior some women adjust their dress and thats it I want to dig up a hole and bury myself.

Thanks for the suggestions but I have tried many things.

If I am wearing sunglasses I am fine and I am not even starting behind the glasses but just having that sense of security is good.

In office cant wear sunnies :(

Hi andydownunder,

Sorry, I am late to this thread as I have just joined. I too have had this problem for the past few years. I can even pinpoint when it started. I was on a job interview where these two women were interviewing me, both with cleavage showing, and the thought just popped into my head, "Wouldn't it be terrible if I looked inappropriately at their cleavage during an interview of all places and they caught me?" Although I actually got the job, I remember it being the most difficult interview ever that I had to get through.

Since then, that thought pops into my head every time I have to have a conversation, especially at work, with a woman with cleavage showing: "Wouldn't it be terrible AND embarrassing if I looked inappropriately at her cleavage and she caught me?" Of course, having the constant thought in my head that I shouldn't look just makes it that much more difficult not to look.

I too have had the experience of women adjusting their tops as I struggle for normalcy and it becomes obvious during the conversation. It makes you wonder what they think of you. Do they think you're just another pervert? Do they all get together and laugh at the pitiful guy who can't keep himself from looking at them? Are they on the verge of filing sexual harassment complaints on you?

One of the most frustrating things about it is when people (even here) don't quite grasp the despair that we go through with this problem. Some try to laugh it off as a thing that all guys have a problem with and make it seem as if we are making too big of a deal out of it. Trust me, this is not the typical situation where we want to look and are just waiting for the right opportunity. This happens with women I am not the least bit attracted to. Typically for me, it happens the most with women who I really respect or are in a position of authority. The more inappropriate it would be to get caught looking at her, the more of a struggle it is to not do it. Someone mentioned that women in the western world don't mind being looked at in that way but I can assure you they do. No serious professional woman wants to feel like she's constantly being objectified as a sex object by one of her peers.

Like you, andydownunder, I tried looking up this problem on different search engines but nothing came up. I'm glad I found this forum and now realize I am not alone. I already knew I had OCD, have had it for most of my life, but this is something that started fairly recently and it surprised me that I'm having such a problem with it.
 
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Kiwong

Well-known member
Theoutsider, and Andy downunder, we have the same problem. For me it also wedding rings worn by males and females. Wouldn't it be embarrassing if they thought I was hitting on them when I'm not interested. It can be cleavage on a woman, or even when a man lifts his shirt. There is no attraction at all just a fear of embarrassment. Other things are nose rings, people with big ears, anything to fire up my anxiety.

This is really killing me inside.
 

theoutsider

Well-known member
Hi Kiwong. Have you ever considered hypnosis treatment? The thought has crossed my mind although, honestly, the thought of being hypnotized scares me a bit.
 

Kiwong

Well-known member
Hi Kiwong. Have you ever considered hypnosis treatment? The thought has crossed my mind although, honestly, the thought of being hypnotized scares me a bit.

No I haven't tried hypnosis, the outsider, but I did find relaxation and mindfullness sessions with a therapist helpful.

When I was in a relaxed state the therapist made some postive affirmations.
 

theoutsider

Well-known member
No I haven't tried hypnosis, the outsider, but I did find relaxation and mindfullness sessions with a therapist helpful.

When I was in a relaxed state the therapist made some postive affirmations.

Sounds good. I think I will try that before hypnosis. Thanks!
 

jaim38

Well-known member
I also feel uncomfortable seeing nudity, or even partial nudity. I am female but I'm afraid of looking at a woman's chest or butt out of fear that she will accuse me of being gay. Sunglasses help a lot, but I can't wear them inside a building or end up looking weird.
 
This is my first post And it's reassuring to hear others with the same issue. I have an issue where I cannot look at a female without an impulse/fear that I will be looking at their cleavage. It is not a sexual reason, more of what others said, my brain says don't look and I can't keep eye contact. It started abt 1.5 years ago and I cannot find a way to fix it. It wound up costing me a job as I was having panic attacks going into work. I went on disability but when that ran out and my psychologist could not get a longer term approved I was let go. I now spend most days in the house and have been seeking jobs where I don't have to interact with people or only men if I if I do. I tried meds to no avail and am currently without insurance and can't afford to keep seeing a dr. I have read books but nothing really covers it. I even avoid family members for fear of serious embarrassment and feel like a hermit. Does anyone have suggestions that have helped them? I feel my problem boils down to a lack of self esteem but I can't seem to find a way to work through it. I also have an avoidance problem and will stay away from going out to do yard work if I see a neighbor. It has gotten harder with me being home all the time. I need to resolve this, I am in my thirties and can't live the rest of my life like this. Any suggestions or advice is much appreciated
 

jaim38

Well-known member
^One suggestion that works for me is to be aware of your body movements. As a rule, I try not to look at anybody or their body parts for more than 1-2 seconds. When I catch myself looking at somebody's boobs or butt, I immediately look away. Don't let your gaze linger at one spot. It's important to know that looking is OK, but staring can make people feel uncomfortable.

I saw a suggestion in an article from a therapist, but I never tried it: it's to look at as many pictures of women and men, stare as much as you want until you get tired of it. The goal is to condition your mind to think that boobs, butts are as normal as other body parts. Because in our minds, not all body parts are created equal. Some body parts like boobs, butts, gentialia are "elevated" to higher status and given more importance than other body parts. That's why we cover up our boobs, butts, and genitals. So, when women show their cleavage, we freak out because that's not something we should be looking at.

Think of it this way. If you work in the porn industry and you see a lot of naked bodies, you won't have this problem because you're used to seeing naked bodies. But for the rest of us who don't see naked bodies a lot, we react with surprise or even shock when we see partial or complete nudity.
 
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coyote

Well-known member
i enjoy looking at cleavage

i figure it's okay for me to look

i mean, if she didn't want someone to look, she would have worn something different, right?

don't get me wrong, i'm polite about it

in fact, i figure it might be rude to ignore it - seeing as how she went to all the trouble to put herself out there to begin with
 

Kiwong

Well-known member
It's funny that when I look away quickly people notice my discomfort and anxiety. And that is what people react to, my anxious response.

And that is exactly my fear, staring, looking for some is not OK, and my fear is how people will respond, often angrily.

My anxiety has multiple triggers. The goal would be to talk to someone in a relaxed manner, when the triggers are present. Not looking away, quickly, not being concerned about looking for too long.

If you worry about not doing something then it becomes your focus, and you finish up doing out by trying to avoid doing it.
 

Kiwong

Well-known member
i enjoy looking at cleavage

i figure it's okay for me to look

i mean, if she didn't want someone to look, she would have worn something different, right?

don't get me wrong, i'm polite about it

in fact, i figure it might be rude to ignore it - seeing as how she went to all the trouble to put herself out there to begin with

The point that some of you seem to be missing, is that for some this kind of anxiety is not sexual at all.

It is a fear of embarrassment in social situations, somewhat akin to a fear of being watched eating or signing a cheque.

I don't enjoy looking at withered arms, sleepy eyes, armpit sweat, bare feet. However, they are as much a trigger for my anxiety as boobs, butts or cleavage.

It's a fear of being judged as not being polite about it. Any trigger, at any time, my anxiety looks for anything for potential embarradssment. And the reactions which can be quite extraordinary.
 
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coyote

Well-known member
where did i mention sex?

if people didn't want you to look at their bare feet, they would cover them up also
 
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