Talking about psychiatrists

[Dj SL]

First point, psychiatrists are people who studied the human thoughts, feelings and behaviors. They have the knowledge and experience to help you with your problems in this case Social Anxiety and maybe depression.

All the psych told me I already knew it because I learned everything about Social Anxiety. He prescribed two different medications paxil and clonazepam.

When I have an appointment and I miss it, he stills charge me. He never calls me to ask me how am I doing.

Last week I was late 20 minutes; He told me you're late I can't see you. I replied I just need 5 minutes of your time to pay you, so I can get my prescription (I was out of clonazepam, It's an addictive drug. If you don't take it for 1 day, you feel totally different, If you dont take it for 3 days, you start having some hallucinations) He knews I was out of my meds and He said, call later to make another appointment.

He pissed me off, I had to go to a hospital to get clonazepam cuz I was feeling sick (1 day without clonazepam).
I have to make an appointment with the psych next week and I'm going straight to the point to tell him that I want to stop the meds.

In my point of view most of psychiatrists don't care about patients, They just care about their bussinesss (make money); every year they discover a new disorder, every year comes new medications. Don't you think that all this is marketing guys?

 

[JonnyD]

i don't really like the idea of seeing a psychiatrist, for me they are medics not therapists... they tend to be too cut in out and sew it off, our problem need more a "physiotherapist" then a "orthopedist"

i used to see a psychologist, well she was nice to me , . it helped for about 6 months , i grew a lot in this time, after that i was there just because spending money on therapy forced me to try and overcome my problems.

i still want her very well, but in the end its that, just a bussiness, she didn't call me either and would not accept me being too late, but that's the way it works, i really wouldn't want her to call me outside consultation hours and she has a schedule to keep

if you're feeling its not going anywhere, just cut it, look for another person or way to help yourself, its your right to do it...

 

[decadeOfSA]

A lot of them put profits ahead of patients. That's just the truth. I saw a report on CNN about a month ago and and psychiatrist confessed to prescribing pills for quick fixes vs. talk therapy, so he could see more patients and increase profits.

Then there's probably incentives from the drug companies. Also, see how they react when you go from having great insurance to bad insurance. When you have great insurance/money, they will keep you coming back as often as they can and try all sort of drugs on you. I was guinea pigged on many SSRIs over and over, even tried the same brands more than once. None helped and I finally just asked the question, "Wouldn't these have worked by now?" I was told yes. Once I asked that before to another psychiatrist and that one just said something about they work on different pathways or something.

Anyway, I suggest you get off the Klonopin. DO IT SLOWLY THOUGH! DON'T FAST TAPER OR COLD TURKEY. I was on that stuff for about 15 years and Xanax for about 5. I ran into tolerance, dependence, rebound anxiety, rebound insomnia issues. It seems like it made my anxiety worse too, generally. Xanax made it so much worse. Paxil might be worth trying longer. I don't know how long you have been trying it, but I would give it a few months. Some people with SAD do seem to benefit from it.

I decided a couple of years ago to slowly taper off the crap and still have 30 mg of Valium/day worth left to go.

Read the horror stories here (good advice on how to get off the Klonopin):

Benzodiazepine

Psychotherapists are better and get to the root of the problem. You have to find a good one that is proactive though. I've been to many who are lazy and just want to talk about what's going on in my life and charge me a lot for it, instead of working on CBT and/or pushing me to do homework.

 

[decadeOfSA]

i don't really like the idea of seeing a psychiatrist, for me they are medics not therapists... they tend to be too cut in out and sew it off, our problem need more a "physiotherapist" then a "orthopedist"

i used to see a psychologist, well she was nice to me , . it helped for about 6 months , i grew a lot in this time, after that i was there just because spending money on therapy forced me to try and overcome my problems.

i still want her very well, but in the end its that, just a bussiness, she didn't call me either and would not accept me being too late, but that's the way it works, i really wouldn't want her to call me outside consultation hours and she has a schedule to keep

if you're feeling its not going anywhere, just cut it, look for another person or way to help yourself, its your right to do it...

Some people can benefit in the short-term with an anti-depressant like Paxil. Some people with other disorders have a chemical imbalance that has to be treated by drugs. People with SAD don't necessarily need drugs though and would probably benefit more from CBT, in the long term. There maybe some biological pre-disposition that makes us more anxious, but I think we SAD sufferers don't need drugs as much as people with other mental illnesses.

So, CBT psychotherapy coupled with a SSRI or maybe propranolol is the best way to go. Avoid benzos, unless you only need them sparingly. If you have to pick just one, I would go with CBT psychotherapy over a shrink.

 

[awkwardamanda]

Yeah, this is why I don't ever want to see a psychiatrist. Apparently they just hand you a prescription and send you on your way. That doesn't really get to the root of the problem. Most mental health issues aren't gonna go away just by popping pills. They're often caused by some sort of trauma in life. Drugs don't heal emotional scars. It probably works in certain cases, like mild depression maybe, but I think that's something most GPs could treat anyway. Most people need some sort of therapy aside from drugs and you aren't going to get that from too many psychiatrists. Do they even bother to consult their patients' other doctors and therapists after being referred? I wouldn't trust most of them to be able to make a formal diagnosis when they hardly talk to you. If I need to go on some anti-depressant I just hope my family doctor can give me something without having to send me on a pointless trip to a psychiatrist that doesn't really care and just wants to shoo me away. I'd much rather see a psychologist or whatever therapist and actually talk about what's wrong beyond brain chemistry. And it's not that psychiatrists don't have their place. There are probably some good ones out there. I just think their time is better spent on cases that really do require drug treatment like people with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. There are better treatment options for anxiety and depression sufferers.

 

[Nanita]

In my point of view most of psychiatrists don't care about patients, They just care about their bussinesss (make money); every year they discover a new disorder, every year comes new medications. Don't you think that all this is marketing guys?

^ I agree, most psychiatrists are like that

 

[Feathers]

Yeah, CBT, ACT or other forms of therapy can help with depression or anxiety or such, even if you learn it from a book If you can get a good therapist it's probably better, some people online wrote some books were better and more helpful than their therapist though.

Even for bipolar, some people online write that minerals/vitamins can help, I think too many meds are prescribed worldwide... And most doctors don't know much about nutrition/lifestyle factors...

Where I live, I was told insurance companies won't pay for therapy like CBT, but they will pay for meds?? How messed up is that?? One can get free help from a psychologist or support group from some non-profits though. Some psychotherapists are free (with waiting line of months), some for pay. Some psychiatrists just prescribe meds, some also help peoople with talk therapy or great advice. You need to do your research and maybe ask on local mental health forums/organisations.

Dj, I think it's great that you're contemplating other options - There are 'guides' for how to get off meds slowly online, yeah... Get informed...

 

[Nanita]

@ feathers, Yeah, the insurance companies and the system in general will only acknowledge treatment done with meds / medicine loving psychiatrists.
It´s very messed up. It should be illegal, actually.

I´ve heard of children being on antidepressants and what not.
I know a DOG that is on antidepressants.



......Aaaaaargh the modern civilization and its messed up ways, trying to make us all fit into the big machine of SYSTEMS.

 

[doubleM]

i dont trust psychiatrists at all (or doctors for that matter). there is a high suicide rate among psychiatrists and doctors.

The overall physician suicide rate cited by most studies has been between 28 and 40 per 100,000, compared with the overall rate in the general population of 12.3 per 100,000.[1] Overall, then, physicians are more than twice as likely as the general population to kill themselves. Each year, it would take the equivalent of 1 to 2 average-sized graduating classes of medical school to replace the number of physicians who kill themselves. This rate appears higher than among other professionals.

Psychiatrists have the highest suicide rate of any profession, a rate twice the average of medical professionals.

you might find this of interest....

http://www.psych-crimes.com/dangers.htm

 

[Feathers]

doubleM,

oh gosh, that site sounds scary... it's probably good to double-check everything, and I do believe good therapists exist (people have reported getting better just after a few visits), it's still oh gosh... yeah, always do your research before going to anyone...

from that site:

North American pharmaceutical sales in 2005 were $265.7 billion.

yikes

forty percent of all television advertising dollars are drug dollars

huh??

Okay, these should be somewhat easy to research... (though I'm too lazy to do that right now)

What concerns me more is that this site seems to have been started by Scientology?? yikes

CCHR was founded in 1969 by the Church of Scientology and the internationally acclaimed author, Dr. Thomas Szasz, Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry at the State University of New York, Syracuse. The Commission is now an international organization with more than 250 chapters in 34 countries. Its board of advisors, called Commissioners, includes doctors, lawyers, educators, artists, businessmen and civil and human rights representatives.

huh?
I'm not sure if they're exactly unbiased either...?

Nanita,

alas, I've heard of children, yeah...

but DOGS??! OMG!!

 

[Feathers]

I googled up the woman mentioned on the site doubleM posted, I think you need to read this too:

Review - You Must Be Dreaming - Mental Health Policy And Advocacy Resource Center
(Again, not sure how reliable this site is either, it's interesting to read though.)

 

[Dj SL]

A lot of them put profits ahead of patients. That's just the truth. I saw a report on CNN about a month ago and and psychiatrist confessed to prescribing pills for quick fixes vs. talk therapy, so he could see more patients and increase profits.

Then there's probably incentives from the drug companies. Also, see how they react when you go from having great insurance to bad insurance. When you have great insurance/money, they will keep you coming back as often as they can and try all sort of drugs on you. I was guinea pigged on many SSRIs over and over, even tried the same brands more than once. None helped and I finally just asked the question, "Wouldn't these have worked by now?" I was told yes. Once I asked that before to another psychiatrist and that one just said something about they work on different pathways or something.

Anyway, I suggest you get off the Klonopin. DO IT SLOWLY THOUGH! DON'T FAST TAPER OR COLD TURKEY. I was on that stuff for about 15 years and Xanax for about 5. I ran into tolerance, dependence, rebound anxiety, rebound insomnia issues. It seems like it made my anxiety worse too, generally. Xanax made it so much worse. Paxil might be worth trying longer. I don't know how long you have been trying it, but I would give it a few months. Some people with SAD do seem to benefit from it.

I decided a couple of years ago to slowly taper off the crap and still have 30 mg of Valium/day worth left to go.

Read the horror stories here (good advice on how to get off the Klonopin):

Benzodiazepine

Psychotherapists are better and get to the root of the problem. You have to find a good one that is proactive though. I've been to many who are lazy and just want to talk about what's going on in my life and charge me a lot for it, instead of working on CBT and/or pushing me to do homework.

Thank you for telling me this. I've been taking this drug for 10 months but I want to stop it, and I know I have to do it slowly. If I dont take 3 mg of clonazepam daily I feel totally different, I feel sick. I've been taking different meds for 5 years, but I dont want them anymore. I just want to feel free of meds. I think I can handle my life without meds. Also Benzos should be banned. Thanks again.

 

[Kiwong]

It is clear to me that a psyschiatrist is a medical doctor who is going to prescibe medication for mental illness, pretty much like an orthopaedic surgeon treats injuries in need of surgery. I understand the difference so that is why I ask to see a pyschologist or counsellor.

So many doctors, mainly GPs have been determined to get me onto anti depressants in the past. Something I am just as determined not to do. The only time I took medication, blood pressure pills, I felt the sicket I have of my whole life, because they overmedicated me.

 

[decadeOfSA]

Thank you for telling me this. I've been taking this drug for 10 months but I want to stop it, and I know I have to do it slowly. If I dont take 3 mg of clonazepam daily I feel totally different, I feel sick. I've been taking different meds for 5 years, but I dont want them anymore. I just want to feel free of meds. I think I can handle my life without meds. Also Benzos should be banned. Thanks again.

Good luck. It will not likely be easy tapering off Klonopin, but it will be worth it in the long run. The longer you take benzos, the harder it is to taper off and the greater the likelihood and severity of protracted withdrawal (withdrawal symptoms after you stop taking benzos). A lot of people continue to experience withdrawal effects months to years after they have stopped taking benzos. This is probably, because benzos change the chemistry of your brain and it has to "heal" back.

Get a blender, 250 ml graduated cylinder, syringe, mortar and pestle, and maybe a beaker as equipment to water titrate slowly off Klonopin. You want to use the water titration method.

There's instructions on how to do this on that site I linked to. You grind up the klonopin and add to 250 ml (or more or less) of water. Blend the Klonopin in water and then remove 2 ml the first day and drink the rest. The next day, remove 4 ml. The next day 6 and so on, until you get to 250 ml. That's the basic method for water titration and allows you to gradually and slowly taper off. If you are on 3 mg/day, take 2 or 2.5 mg by mouth dry, and un-grinded. Grind the rest in water and taper off .5 at a time. There's a spreadsheet on that site I linked to that will help you keep track of how much to toss everyday.

When you get down to at least 2 mg/day, then you might want to crossover (convert to the equivalent dose) to valium. Valium has a long half life, so it remains in you system longer and minimizes withdrawal symptoms.

Anyways, good luck and go slow. I know you probably want to get off the junk ASAP, but you need to go slow. The faster you taper off, the more withdrawal symptoms you will have and also the worse and longer protracted withdrawal will be.

You might want to find a new psychiatrist too, depending on whether they agree to a slow taper. A lot of ignorant psychiatrists will try to fast taper or even cold turkey you off. You don't want to do that, just read the horror stories on that site I linked to.

I started tapering about 2 years ago off of 3 mg Xanax and 2 mg Klonopin /day. I have about 30 mg Valium/day left to go. That's equivalent to 1.5 mg Klonopin/day.

 

[dean01]

you all seem to have private psychiatrists/ psychologists. ive been trying to see a psychiatrist on the national health service for 2 years, i never did get to see one so i was forced to go private. i complained on numerous occassions but to no avail. in total i saw 11 social workers and 4 doctors and was told to read books. its quite clear to me its all about money, the nhs dont get paid much so they dont care and the private psychiatrists just pretend to care because your paying them.
im refusing to see any more social workers there just plain useless, there excuses were rehearsed as i heard them over and over, i was told to come back in a year because of a change of goverment, that i wasnt eliagable as there were people worse of then me and the final straw was when they said that maybe i just like my own company!!
i have no faith in any health service anymore, why should i trust some stranger to help me after all they just read books to become qualified and we can all do that. the only reason we need doctors/ psychiatrists are to get meds.
admittedly ive never seen a psychologist and i believe there supposed to be much more helpfull then psychiatrists thou.
my options are pretty limited as i cant afford to go private all the time but if i was in the situation where i was paying and not happy i would just change psychiatrist or try a psychologist.
my diagnosis turned out to be bipolar one but maybe i just like my own company lol

 

[decadeOfSA]

you all seem to have private psychiatrists/ psychologists. ive been trying to see a psychiatrist on the national health service for 2 years, i never did get to see one so i was forced to go private. i complained on numerous occassions but to no avail. in total i saw 11 social workers and 4 doctors and was told to read books. its quite clear to me its all about money, the nhs dont get paid much so they dont care and the private psychiatrists just pretend to care because your paying them.
im refusing to see any more social workers there just plain useless, there excuses were rehearsed as i heard them over and over, i was told to come back in a year because of a change of goverment, that i wasnt eliagable as there were people worse of then me and the final straw was when they said that maybe i just like my own company!!
i have no faith in any health service anymore, why should i trust some stranger to help me after all they just read books to become qualified and we can all do that. the only reason we need doctors/ psychiatrists are to get meds.
admittedly ive never seen a psychologist and i believe there supposed to be much more helpfull then psychiatrists thou.
my options are pretty limited as i cant afford to go private all the time but if i was in the situation where i was paying and not happy i would just change psychiatrist or try a psychologist.
my diagnosis turned out to be bipolar one but maybe i just like my own company lol

Even though I don't trust psychiatrists and doctors in general, there are some mental illnesses that pretty much need to be treated by drugs. Severe depression, bipolar disorder, and schizophrenia. I have known people with severe depression and bipolar disorder that have improved immensely from drugs. I've seen these people stop their drugs and revert back to not wanting to get out of bed or being manic.

So, there is a place for drugs. There is even a place for drugs for SAD. Benzos should be prescribed as a last resort though and never long term. SSRIs should be tried and are generally safe.

I still think that drugs are over-prescribed in general though. Many people don't need them. A general doctor once tried to get me hooked on Nexium forever, saying I had GERD. I rarely have acid reflux though. Nexium is expensive and on one of the most prescribed drugs list. I heard somewhere about complaints about the amount of marketing for that drug, including directly to doctors. Have you seen all the commercials for Paxil? There's a lot of money in drugs. I'm not saying they don't work for some people, but they are way over-prescribed in general.

If you have bipolar and you were just told to read books, then there's a big problem in your health care system. Books can help for some disorders, but I don't know if they can do much for bipolar. Workbooks for SAD can help, because a lot of the exercises are the same ones you do in therapy. A therapist can help so much more in pushing you and guiding you though.

 

[dean01]

hi decade of sa, your right about the drugs they probably do help and my problem with anything medical goes back a long time. its me thats the problem i always see the a scam behind everything.
i have moments of clairty like yesterday when i tried again with the docs, i went to get an appointment but got told my docs fully booked untill the 8th of august and then hes goes on leave for 3 weeks. i can have an appointment when he gets back but my entire mind set and mood could be completely different by then. they want to put me on mood stabilisers and anti-psychotics but to be completely honest it all scares the life out of me and no ones explaining anything.
i have trouble talking to the docs so its probably my fault again, i should just ask and tell him about my fears but i cant, i go into a sort of auto pilot when i speak so i have to write things down before i get there.
think im babbaling now sorry lots on my mind.

 

[decadeOfSA]

hi decade of sa, your right about the drugs they probably do help and my problem with anything medical goes back a long time. its me thats the problem i always see the a scam behind everything.
i have moments of clairty like yesterday when i tried again with the docs, i went to get an appointment but got told my docs fully booked untill the 8th of august and then hes goes on leave for 3 weeks. i can have an appointment when he gets back but my entire mind set and mood could be completely different by then. they want to put me on mood stabilisers and anti-psychotics but to be completely honest it all scares the life out of me and no ones explaining anything.
i have trouble talking to the docs so its probably my fault again, i should just ask and tell him about my fears but i cant, i go into a sort of auto pilot when i speak so i have to write things down before i get there.
think im babbaling now sorry lots on my mind.

There's good reason to smell a scam with doctors. Get on at least a mood stabilizer. I know several people with bipolar who have really benefitted from something like Lithium or Depakote. I have heard Seroquel helps in extreme case of biploar disorder.

Some people just need drugs, period. People with severe depression, bipolar, and schizophrenia have a life-long chemical imbalance.

Even a lot of us with SAD probably have some biological predisposition or imbalance and sometimes drugs help. Benzos should avoided though. The thing about SAD is that it is a phobia, generally. Yeah, we can be wired to be more phobic, but CBT can help a lot and be permanent over drugs.