Oh God, I kinda feel this way. But yea, I have both. Both are a pain in the a, dollar sign, dollar sign.
social anxiety is highly treatable
- Thread starter Earthcircle
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Oh God, I kinda feel this way. But yea, I have both. Both are a pain in the a, dollar sign, dollar sign.
Sacrament
Well-known member
I don't think you were seeing the right therapists. Decent therapists put all the judging aside and focus on what the patients tell them, and take it from there. Was there something about your tone or descriptions that didn't sound genuine?
Earthcircle
Well-known member
I think some of the things I said were too shocking for the therapists to take at face value. I have actually had this problem a number of times. One therapist told me outright that my childhood couldn't have been as bad what I say. Hearing something like that just makes me speechless.
Come to think of it: I doubt that this is so unusual. Notoriously, Freud did not believe some of the things that his patients told him. Many people today believe that Freud was deluding himself on this issue.
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FountainandFairfax
in a VAN down by the RIVER
I've read that therapist tend to disregard a lot of what people tell them about their childhoods, anyway. The reasoning being that there's always two sides to a story and that memory is faulty. But to that I've always wondered "Isn't it about how I perceived it?" If a lie ruined my life, who cares if it wasn't true? The lie still needs to be dealt with. I had one therapist, who I swear, I could HEAR his eyes rolling when I talked about my childhood, ha ha. If nothing else, isn't that the juicy stuff that you get into the business for? I kid, I kid... but seriously, if it's causing me pain, who cares what it is? Help me dig it out, man!
Of course, I always bailed on my therapists sooner or later, so maybe I just hit the bricks before we got there. Still, a good therapist should've been able to prevent me from getting frustrated and doing that, I feel.
Sorry for the ramble. :kickingmyself:
Of course, I always bailed on my therapists sooner or later, so maybe I just hit the bricks before we got there. Still, a good therapist should've been able to prevent me from getting frustrated and doing that, I feel.
Sorry for the ramble. :kickingmyself:
Earthcircle
Well-known member
Well, when I described a lover dying of AIDS, this was an event from my adulthood. And I don't see how there could be two sides to that story.
Anyway, the ironic thing about my childhood is that, if anything, I tend to understate how bad it was, because it embarrasses me.
Anyway, the ironic thing about my childhood is that, if anything, I tend to understate how bad it was, because it embarrasses me.
im sorry man but you seem to be very negative and u must have had the worst pick of therapists this world has ever seen..something doesnt seem right in your line of events..your therapists suck, people think you are sub-human, you dont want to build self confidence because people will rip you apart for it(?)...well then what is your plan?
confidence is 95% of the battle..even if a guy doesnt or isnt good at something yet pretends he is, it looks so much better than a guy that has decent ability yet zero self confidence..
PugofCrydee
You want to know how I got these scars?
forgive me if I've interpreted your post the wrong way.
AvPD is the more extreme and manifested end of SA. It usually takes many, many years to develop AvPD.
It is also much more than the term 'avoidant' suggests. It also can be dismissed by health 'professionals' as nothing more than SA.
I do agree with your comment that SA is one thing, AvPD is another.
Opaline
1
Yup. I sometimes really hate this fact and I wonder if it's purely a cultural thing, but then maybe most ideas we have about each other are. For instance, in the Western world - especially the USA - confidence is EVERYTHING. It's to the point where often if you show any sign of emotional weakness whatsoever, people react negatively. I know this isn't the case in every situation but it seems to be the case more often than not. We are a pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps, fake it til you make it, independence-obsessed and highly individualistic culture.
Opaline
1
So "avoidant" and "AvPD" aren't quite the same, or you're saying "avoidant" simply doesn't do justice to the full effects of AvPD? What exactly is the distinction between SA and AvPD? I thought anyone with SA is avoidant by definition, since people generally avoid what they are afraid of? I don't understand how you can have SA and NOT be avoidant.
Earthcircle
Well-known member
I don't have a plan.
kihira
1
This has a good description of AvPD that goes beyond just the DSM criteria
https://outofthefog.net/Disorders/AVPD.html
mixedupgirl
Well-known member
100% agree with this. I have come a long long way since I developed SA and it's due to reading everything I could find about the illness and trying very hard to recognise and change my bad thinking habits. Don't get me wrong its been a long and hard journey. We are all in a bad habit, a constant cycle with the same thinking patterns keeping us where we are. And we are putting every single thing said and "done" to us under a microscope and magnifying them in to these massive issues which are really insignificant and should be forgotten. You have to recognise you are doing this and retrain your brain to think in a different way. I am so much better now, my issues now are nothing compared to what they were. And I am constantly observing and relearning from other peoples behaviour how to be, how to talk, everything which im out of practice with which is helping me to get there. I'm making mistakes but not beating myself up.
Rumplestiltskin
Well-known member
(Sorry for replying like this. It just helps me better to organize my ideas.)
It is a fact that ugliness and beauty are objective (ugliness in particular), since at the end of the day it all comes down to ratios and proportions which are easily measurable. In the case of social phobics, anxiety comes from people criticizing us, so it's normal for an ugly person to feel uncomfortable when in public.
However, pretty much everyone feels nervous when having to speak in public. Why? Because in that situation we have no control over the fact that we will be judged by many people at once. This is exactly what constantly happens to ugly people, so it's an instinctive reaction, not one you can control at your own will. You just can't decide not to care about what other people will think of you.
Pretty much all of this. Rejection, not fitting in the group, being inferior to the rest. Isn't that all where SA comes from?
That appearance says nothing about us as individuals may have been true a long time ago, but it's definitely not anymore in this year and age. Your appearance (clothes included) is half of what you are and tells a lot about you (social status, belonging to a certain social group, how much you take care of yourself, whether you're an active person or not, etc.). It's important enough that you'll be instantly rejected by many people because of it.
The thing is, it's not about the weight you give to attractiveness, but about how important this quality is for everyone else. It's not about ugly people deciding to be miserable for their own sake, but about society forcing them to be like this.
Well, I confess I'm incapable of finding those others ways to think. No one likes being criticized, and ugly people know for a fact that they will be every single time someone looks at them. I don't see how a person can choose not to feel nervous if they're aware of that.
It's highly unlikely for an ugly guy to be confident, and it's highly unlikely for a handsome man to be insecure. Self-confidence comes from the outside world and how we're treated by the rest, not from within ourselves.
Would you buy a product if you knew that it only works as it should in 6 out of 10 occasions? You're paying a lot of money to be cured and despite that you still have a 40% chance of having wasted it all in exchange for nothing. It all just sounds like flipping a coin, rather than like a respectable science.
Megaten
Well-known member
I just wanted to comment on this one thing. Though I agree that being treated a certain way by your peers will definitely affect how a person sees themselves, I'd like to point out that being cute doesnt mean that you'll always be treated well. There's quite a few good looking people on here that got bullied for it regardless. Probably because people were jealous of them in some way. People tend to think quiet attractive people are "stuck up".
Kiwong
Well-known member
The most sensible thing I heard said by a psychologist was a shift to neutral thinking or realistic thinking away from positive thinking. Even better is not thinking at all.
The things I really enjoy take me to a place where my thoughts are neutral, and I get lost in a different world for a while. I really like it when I get in a state where I lose my sense of self, and get lost in play, like I did when I was a child.
The things I really enjoy take me to a place where my thoughts are neutral, and I get lost in a different world for a while. I really like it when I get in a state where I lose my sense of self, and get lost in play, like I did when I was a child.
Sacrament
Well-known member
I don't think you realize how many gorgeous men and women out there are extremely self-conscious and anxious, etc.
AlienGeranium
Well-known member
I'm familiar with studies and research dealing with beauty, and I think they're very interesting. Their existing does not make it fact. There are plenty of papers and research out there showing the opposite to be true as well. The basic structure of most of these studies find patterns of peoples responses or brain activity or physical sensations when exposed to people and, through correlation, put forth theories as to why some people are more universally accepted attractive over others. Again, while interesting, it's hardly an exact science, and most definitely not fact. No scientist in the field would say "Welp, your nose is an inch too long, no one will find it attractive." There aren't universal truths like that. If you want to say there are qualities that are commonly found in people who /most/ find attractive is one thing, but it's not the case that everyone in the world sees some people as ugly. That's just an absurd claim to make.
Well, you can. Two things about that though, one is it's probably not great to not care what other people think. Ideally, you want to care about what certain people think about certain things. Which things and which people are debatable. I'm sure you don't care what a 13 year old you've never met thinks about how long you wait at stop signs. There are plenty of people who do not care at all about what others think of them. If you've ever been in a deep depression you may be able to sympathize with this. The second thing I wanted to say is I don't want to brush this off as something that can be done at the snap of your fingers. It takes work to not let things get to you. If you don't want to care about what most people think of your looks, you have to find a way to convince yourself it doesn't matter.
Oh no, I agree this is where SA comes from. My point is just that it's not rational to be afraid of these things. I'm sure you've heard the expression "Sticks and stones may hurt my bones but words can never hurt me," Just because they are things based in reality doesn't make it rational to fear them. Would you reject someone for their looks? Hopefully not, and you wouldn't want to associate with someone who would. It certainly doesn't make you inferior in any meaningful sense. It doesn't make you dumb, or boring, or mean, or cowardly, or uncreative, or lazy, or evil, or anything else that many would value lowly. That's just my personal thoughts,
It sounds like you are talking about aspects of appearance that are within your control, in which whether you're "ugly" to the people whose opinions you care about is completely within your control. Your hair, clothes, weight, makeup, tattoos, etc can all be changed to your liking. And things you control /do/ (or choose not to do) say things about you. Trying to see it as an opportunity instead of an anxiety trigger may be helpful.
I am certain you could find people out there who by your standards, and the standards of society, are very ugly, but have managed to fit into it just fine and live very happy lives. I believe this is because they either do not put much weight into what society thinks of their looks, or their looks in general. Maybe they have some other secret to happiness. My point being though, society does not get to dictate how you feel based on something like appearance. Society tries to beat people down at times, yes, but they are not the end all.
Again as I said before, I didn't mean to brush it off as something that is easy and can be done at the snap of your fingers. Even from that little blurb I can see thinking that can be changed. You're assuming everyone is judging you while, unless you're a mind reader, you have absolutely no way of knowing. If you assume everyone who sees you is immediately thinking less of you as a person in all aspects because of the body you were given, you will be nervous all the time. Give humanity more credit, we're all not that shallow.
It's called SELF confidence, if you want to let other people decided how you feel about yourself that's up to you, but when it comes down to it, you're the one in control. External stimuli plays a role, but it has the capacity of completely being in your control. And if you have doubts about a handsome person being insecure, take a look down the pictures forum here and know many many of them are insecure with themselves and their appearance despite looking very good.
Bronson99
Well-known member
Positive thinking is a necessity, though, especially when one has low self-esteem. One should want positive to be the "new normal"