Religious debate

LoyalXenite

Well-known member
Are religious people simply more ignorant/less intelligent?
I think that can be applied to any group of people, they are idiots and smart people in all groups of people generally speaking. I mean look at some of the nazis, there were some brilliant minds behind their experiments but they believed in (utterly abhorrent) things that were absolute bullshit. So its hard to answer really... but then again they are deliberately ignoring facts and choosing to believe in something that has been proven to be full of inaccuracies and bigotry over proven evidence so yes works too :giggle:
 
I think that can be applied to any group of people, they are idiots and smart people in all groups of people generally speaking. I mean look at some of the nazis, there were some brilliant minds behind their experiments but they believed in (utterly abhorrent) things that were absolute bullshit. So its hard to answer really... but then again they are deliberately ignoring facts and choosing to believe in something that has been proven to be full of inaccuracies and bigotry over proven evidence so yes works too :giggle:
Well spoken :thumbup:
 
No they r not. i find religious people to be creative and very intelligent and very insightful.
can you provide some insight as to why Lily?

Thanks for answering, I realize the question (and yes I admit,it was done provocatively - but only to spark conversation) was quite pointed.
 

lily

Well-known member
can you provide some insight as to why Lily?

Thanks for answering, I realize the question (and yes I admit,it was done provocatively - but only to spark conversation) was quite pointed.
Why they r very creative, very intelligent and very insightful. Well i think it's b/c God reached them and they believed and they were created that way. God just probably didn't reach you yet, or you didn't believe, it doesn't mean you're not intelligent. Even as LoyalXenite commented on, you can be intelligent, creative and insightful but you just don't believe.
 
Why they r very creative, very intelligent and very insightful. Well i think it's b/c God reached them and they believed and they were created that way. God just probably didn't reach you yet, or you didn't believe, it doesn't mean you're not intelligent. Even as LoyalXenite commented on, you can be intelligent, creative and insightful but you just don't believe.
Lily, can I ask you why a loving and caring 'god' would create a place where he would put you and you would burn forever if you didn't love him and follow his ways?

I mean, what sort of person/god thinks in that particular way?
 

lily

Well-known member
Lily, can I ask you why a loving and caring 'god' would create a place where he would put you and you would burn forever if you didn't love him and follow his ways?

I mean, what sort of person/god thinks in that particular way?
i think it's a choice factor. we have a choice to follow him or not.
 
What's funny about any debate about religion is that it's about things that has been written and interpreted by many men, dictated or not by a higher power, hundreds and hundreds of years ago, thousands in some case, in countries far far away, in tongues that no longer exist, translated many times before getting to us, in a context completely different, and people are there arguing and making wars over details as if your god left you very clear, timeless instructions. This is absurd.
 
Lily, can I ask you why a loving and caring 'god' would create a place where he would put you and you would burn forever if you didn't love him and follow his ways?

I mean, what sort of person/god thinks in that particular way?
What's funny about any debate about religion is that it's about things that has been written and interpreted by many men, dictated or not by a higher power, hundreds and hundreds of years ago, thousands in some case, in countries far far away, in tongues that no longer exist, translated many times before getting to us, in a context completely different, and people are there arguing and making wars over details as if your god left you very clear, timeless instructions. This is absurd.
:thumbup:
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I think of it like humanity is stuck down an old mine shaft - because for most of us, life is hard, scary and downright miserable.

To me Religion is like a long firetruck ladder that was "imagined into existence" by men (in a time before scientific logic and evidence even existed) and used as a tool to control the population.

What better way to ensure that humanity does its best to "behave", if it is convinced that the "good people of humanity" will one day get to climb the ladder, and get out of the miserable mine shaft (that is LIFE).

And still, some of humanity today, just can't deal with the fact that all there is to their existence, is living down this depressing, old mine shaft. With no ladder, ever coming to rescue us.

I was brought up in a family that clung onto the "ladder is coming" belief. Now that I have researched myself out of the brainwashing, it is almost unbearable living now with the knowledge that there is no ladder coming. :sad:

So I can totally understand why some people's minds today, still deny the scientific evidence that points to this ladder being entirely made up.
They need this "belief" to help them continue to live down this old mine shaft, or their minds would end up going crazy.
 
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I think of it like humanity is stuck down an old mine shaft - because for most of us, life is hard, scary and downright miserable.

To me Religion is like a long firetruck ladder that was "imagined into existence" by men (in a time before scientific logic and evidence even existed) and used as a tool to control the population.

What better way to ensure that humanity does its best to "behave", if it is convinced that the "good people of humanity" will one day get to climb the ladder, and get out of the miserable mine shaft (that is LIFE).

And still, some of humanity today, just can't deal with the fact that all there is to their existence, is living down this depressing, old mine shaft. With no ladder, ever coming to rescue us.

I was brought up in a family that clung onto the "ladder is coming" belief. Now that I have researched myself out of the brainwashing, it is almost unbearable living now with the knowledge that there is no ladder coming. :sad:

So I can totally understand why some people's minds today, still deny the scientific evidence that points to this ladder being entirely made up.
They need this "belief" to help them continue to live down this old mine shaft, or their minds would end up going crazy.
I was thinking about something on a similar train of thought as this recently. Not exactly, but similar.

I was thinking about Thomas Hobbs, who was this philosopher who basically believed that humans, when left to their own devices, are a-holes. Or in other words, that people are selfish and always look out for themselves first, and what is best for their continued survival at optimal conditions. And a solution to that was to have a social contract of sorts, and a Leviathan.

So if I agree not to kill you, and you agree not to kill me, than we can both focus on growing a garden instead of sharpening tools to protect ourselves from one another. That's the contract bit. Then there is the need for an enforcer, or a leviathan, to make sure people adhere to the contract. In modern day first world countries, it's the government that takes this role. If I break the contract and kill you, the government will punish me.

It's still people looking out for their best interests though. Adhering to the contract and others doing so as well would in theory allow for me to live the best possible life, and for others to do the same.

So I was applying this to religion and two thoughts came to my head. One was what you were getting at Blue, in that it was man-made to function as a leviathan itself. Sort of as a "Hey! Don't murder people or you will spend eternity burning in hell! Isn't that much less in your best interest than, oh, I don't know, just not killing people?" So if that was the reality, that seemed to make sense to me.

On the other side, in argument for God's existence, and if the world is full of a-holes as Thomas Hobbs suggests, what's the dude supposed to do to stop people from acting like a-holes? I mean he could come down and be like "yo guys, it would be really awesome if y'all were nice to each other, and really it would be beneficial if you didn't have to sleep with one eye open, amirite?" but without any muscle to back it up, you're going to have plenty of people seeing the opportunity to take advantage of this system. If that were the case, it would also make sense for the reward and punishment system to exist as it does.

I don't really know though, those were just thoughts that popped in my head though. I've always struggled with the seemingly infinite number of unknown variables when discussing the topic. It's interesting to look at through a particular lens once and a while though.
 
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