Open Relationships vs. Monogamy

[HHDisturbed]

Thanks Flanscho. But yes, to each their own in their beliefs, desires, fantasies and dreams. Every one of my fantasies include my wife. Some of them include others along with my wife. These are very common fantasies for a high percentage of men and women. To fulfill those fantasies with the one you love is quite an incredible experience. It's nothing more than just having fun. To us it is not really a big deal. I just thought it would provide some good fodder for discussion.

To drakir:

I knew this subject might stir up some strong feelings in both directions. That is to be expected. However, I do not condemn those who believe in ghosts, spirits or UFO's, even though I think it is absured. Because like them we are harming no one.

And by the way...I was brought up with NOTHING so no silver spoon here. Everything I have I earned all on my own. No one has ever given me anything so that was a bit unfair. This is not intended to incite a riot...just a discussion.

 

[drakir]

Thanks Flanscho. But yes, to each their own in their beliefs, desires, fantasies and dreams. Every one of my fantasies include my wife. Some of them include others along with my wife. These are very common fantasies for a high percentage of men and women. To fulfill those fantasies with the one you love is quite an incredible experience. It's nothing more than just having fun. To us it is not really a big deal. I just thought it would provide some good fodder for discussion.

To drakir:

I knew this subject might stir up some strong feelings in both directions. That is to be expected. However, I do not condemn those who believe in ghosts, spirits or UFO's, even though I think it is absured. Because like them we are harming no one.

And by the way...I was brought up with NOTHING so no silver spoon here. Everything I have I earned all on my own. No one has ever given me anything so that was a bit unfair. This is not intended to incite a riot...just a discussion.

the "silver-spoon" wasnt directed to you. it was directed more to people in general (where i have been growing up)

 

[drakir]

In your eyes it may not be harmful.. but for others such behavior is hurtfull

 

[Flanscho]

flanscho... your pulling things out of your arse... and i never sayed i would force anyone
and i think you have missunderstood the meaning of the word relationship
relationship (r-lshn-shp)
n.
1. The condition or fact of being related; connection or association.
2. Connection by blood or marriage; kinship.
3. A particular type of connection existing between people related to or having dealings with each other: has a close relationship with his siblings.
4. A romantic or sexual involvement.

there is no "sacrifice your own life for the pure reason to plz the person you love". people who thinks such things are just asking to get used. there are evil people out there that knows how to manipulate.. just because you love somone dosent mean their "god".

First: it's not easy to discuss anything with you if you post something, and 10 minutes later vastly change the contents of that post, adding whole paragraphs or whatever.

Second: whenever we tell someone "be like this or that or I end the relationship" we are putting pressure on someone. We're forcing that person to do something.

Third: please elaborate what I misunderstood about relationships. Quoting something I know from a dictionary doesn't help me understand what you are talking about.

And fourth: of course not everybody is a good person! That's why we have to make experiences, so that we learn and can apply our knowledge to try to judge what people are like. I never said "sacrifice yourself". I'm just saying that a monogamous relationship can often be one-sided and result in one person harming the other, by keeping the relationship monogamous. Of course you don't have to sacrifice yourself. But you have to be open for new things, especially when the person you love talks about them.

 

[HHDisturbed]

In your eyes it may not be harmful.. but for others such behavior is hurtfull

We are not hurting anyone. We only play with like minded people wanting the same. But you are right, for some it can be destructive. If a couple does not have 100% trust in each other or has pre-existing problems in their marriage then it is likely to end badly. Chances are that it will end badly anyway but thinking that swinging will fix anything is a fast track to divorce court.

This is why we are so picky about who we choose to play with. We look for other happy and secure "like minded" married couples like us because it eliminates potential problems and drama. But beyond the bedroom we are all simply very close friends.

 

[Zod]

On one hand monogamy can be a bit egoic: you say "this woman/man belongs to me and noone else. She/He should be fateful to me." Restricted by morals and conditioned mind concepts of what is right and wrong. And fully letting your happiness depend on someone else's choices.

That just opens up the doors to suffering, repression and jealousy if one in a relationship does succumb to cheating. In that way I do admire people who aren't monogamous, they seem to have a more fun and playful stance towards life. More flow and in line with nature, less of the mind/ego.

On the other hand you could also say some people do it because they can't ever get satisfied and need other people to satisfy their needs, and will always move on to the next when that person doesn't "fulfill their needs" anymore.

It fully depends on people and what they're guided by, ego or a higher concious. Neither monogamy or open relationships are in itself good or bad or right or wrong, they both have potential for suffering though, and suffering is what must be avoided. The "golden rule" applies here too.

I myself have never been in an open relationship, and years ago when I was in a more unconcious (in a spiritual sense) mindset, I did have bouts of terrible jealousy. I guess I would prefer a closed relationship, because there's still patterns in me that couldn't bare sharing a woman, but if that relationship would suffer under it, I would try and end it in a non-egoic, peaceful way. Anger jealousy and severe bitterness are human emotions, but they only cause suffering, so it's important to try and transcend them when they arise. The same goes for selfish needs and desires that cause suffering.

 

[HHDisturbed]

Zod: There is certainly a lot of psychology involved when it comes to things of this nature. And like anything else, there are many different levels and types of open relationships. We have always preferred the softer side of things. We have only one couple as playmates on a long-term basis. This makes things safer and creates a more trusting relationship for all. Now over time things can change on one side or mutualy. When this happens we always try to remain friends without sex (we have a few of them like that). Then we try again to seek out another sexy couple who are a great match with similar likes and interests beyond the bedroom. Again, another happily married couple we would want as best of friends.

Now on the opposite end of the spectrum there are those couples who are into this every weekend going to the big swinger events and clubs (normally located in large cities). Many will hook up with a multitude of partners over time including a long string of anonymous one-time encounters. And many of those couples will play separately without their spouse which, to us, goes back to cheating even if it is consensual. Ewwww!

 

[bcsr]

It really doesn't sound like an open relationship. You're still putting rules in place arbitrarily. If you found out your partner was sleeping with other men aside from your couples activities, would it upset you? It sounds like the same principle as a monogamist relationship.

If it's really just human nature to want to have sex with other people, and you have such a trusting relationship, that shouldn't bother you.

 

[HHDisturbed]

It really doesn't sound like an open relationship. You're still putting rules in place arbitrarily. If you found out your partner was sleeping with other men aside from your couples activities, would it upset you? It sounds like the same principle as a monogamist relationship.

If it's really just human nature to want to have sex with other people, and you have such a trusting relationship, that shouldn't bother you.

You are very correct. Either of us would be devastated to find that the other was "cheating" behind their back. It would be extremely damaging to our trust and marriage just like anyone else's.

I suppose what we do might not fit the idea of what most consider to be an "open relationship". We are what you would call a "full swap" couple but we are always together in the same room and never play separately. It is for those same reason's why we don't like the term "swingers" applied to us. To us that is a level way beyond where we want to be.

I know that most people wouldn't understand it but we actually enjoy watching one another having fun in that realm. For us it is a huge turn on. And of course us guys have no complaints that the girls like having fun together too. All that skin can be extremely intoxicating!

 

[Agent_Violet]

Every type of relationship has their own specific set of issues.being monogamous doesn't guarantee happiness and neither does swinging or swapping.
They both have positives and negatives.

No matter what type of relationship you are in there must be boundaries of some sort or else what's the point of being a couple?
The boundaries may vary but the fact remains:If you don't communicate with your partner about your deal breakers and boundaries,your relationship WILL fail eventually whether it's a swingers life for you or one on one.

There is no one size fits all when it comes to love and marriage.

 

[MBinMN]

Well hello fellow lifestyler

Hubby and I have been in the lifestyle 8 1/2 years. In the beginning it was wonderful. Then social anxiety kicked into high gear.
We have really backed off on big parties/social events. I even have a tough time with our closer friends.

Im not sure how you are but pretty much all our friends are in the lifestyle. Really no vanilla ones.

Brave you for this post *wink!

 

[HHDisturbed]

It's all a matter of point of view.

Your comment could be reworded to:
"if i were even lucky to GET a freaking woman! then i would love her 100%, and ensure her becoming happy by allowing her to do whatever she desires, instead of forcing her to just to get close only with me, even if I can't please all of he rneeds!

have we really reached a point were mankind is so arrogant.. so... selfish.. that owning a person is more important than loving a person?

are YOUR primitive desires to control other people greater then your ability to love?

by the way: this monogamous thing is really just a religious fetish... a shared sexual fantasy (all that because of considering oneself more important than the partner)"

Hey Olhos Abertos...this all started between you and Flanscho when YOU misunderstood the above post. He said Your comment could be reworded to: then rewrote your comment from another point of view. He was never putting words in your mouth...you made this an arguement. I appreciated your input but please stop crashing my thread with this battle. Thanks dude.

 

[HHDisturbed]

Well hello fellow lifestyler

Hubby and I have been in the lifestyle 8 1/2 years. In the beginning it was wonderful. Then social anxiety kicked into high gear.
We have really backed off on big parties/social events. I even have a tough time with our closer friends.

Im not sure how you are but pretty much all our friends are in the lifestyle. Really no vanilla ones.

Brave you for this post *wink!

Hi MB.

Finally! I knew that I could not be the only one in here. LOL

Yeah, is been about 7 years for us. It's not something we live for but it is fun every once and awhile. What most of the people who are posting don't seem to understand is how you can have "just sex" without falling in love and feeling deeply and emotionally attached. I love my wife immensely and I enjoy sex. My wife feels the same. We just think of it as a very special friendship where we share a naughty secret. Sure there is a special bonding but that is because we focus on sharing that with one couple exclusively (and vice-versa) on a long-term basis. We do have many vanilla friends too but the more genuine friendships seem to come from our handful of LS friends. But then again, we have always been extremely selective when it comes to our playmates.

Anyway, thanks for chiming in. I'll bet you two feel the same at this point as we in thinking that it's really not that big of a deal. It's just fun, exciting and truly spices up your marital love life back at home too. Sorry bout the SA affecting you to the degree it affects your friendships. I wish you the best.

 

[Odo]

Yeah, is been about 7 years for us. It's not something we live for but it is fun every once and awhile. What most of the people who are posting don't seem to understand is how you can have "just sex" without falling in love and feeling deeply and emotionally attached.

I really don't think that people don't understand sex without love... anyone who has watched television, movies or porn will understand that. I think the general consensus is that sex without love isn't special.

 

[HHDisturbed]

I will agree with that Odo. "Just sex" without love is not special. Never implied that is was. But what it is exciting and highly intoxicating to share our most extreme fantasies together with 4 of us all tangled in a pile.

We aren't looking for "special" when playing with others because we already have that in our own bed at home. Niether of us have a single complaint about our one-on-one intimacy. But being the adventurous types, we simply crave a little added excitement on occasion.

What IS special is in the afterglow...like mentioned in an earlier post in this thread:
We are in our 40's, healthy and feel like teenagers all over again.
We are very young for our ages because we have a zest for life.
It spices up our "love life" at home. We are more passionate than ever!
We will never have desire to cheat! Why would we?
After 11+ years we are very happy in our marriage and still very much in love.

And as an added benefit, we have very close and very "special" friends who we would trust with our lives. Some of our most trusted and genuine friends include a few of our former playmates. But then again, we seek out those needles in the haystack with whom we feel are "just right" for us.

 

[AGR]

Leave? I wouldn't even get into a relationship with a person, who has vastly different views on politics, sexuality, religion or relationships. You don't have to be identical in everything, but certain subjects just cause too many problems, if your opinions are vastly different.?

So you can do it but when someone who is monogamous does it they are trying to force someone else?

And sure, you are right, that can happen in monogamous relationships, that one partner is not trying to make the other happy.

it happens on both,if you are not happy leave that is the whole point,no need to cheat .

I'm not attacking you. I'm just sharing my opinion. And defend yourself? You mean you defend the concept of a monogamous relationship? Tell me, why should I tell my current partner "no more cuddling with other people, no sex with other people". Why should I do that?

then dont whine when I share mine back,when did I say for you to tell anyone anything?
but dont act like people who are monogamous forcing anything on anyone

here is the exact first post that I quoted from you

Second: whenever we tell someone "be like this or that or I end the relationship" we are putting pressure on someone. We're forcing that person to do something.


And fourth: of course not everybody is a good person! That's why we have to make experiences, so that we learn and can apply our knowledge to try to judge what people are like. I never said "sacrifice yourself". I'm just saying that a monogamous relationship can often be one-sided and result in one person harming the other, by keeping the relationship monogamous. Of course you don't have to sacrifice yourself. But you have to be open for new things, especially when the person you love talks about them.

you act like we would be forcing anyone to do anything,when what you do is worse,you can leave if she is not perfect or if she doesnt want an open relationship but we cant do the same otherwise its forcing someone.

 

[HHDisturbed]

it is in trouble just like I showed you, just because you are on an open relationship doesnt mean anything as I showed you earlier someone can backtrack,cant handle,can develop feelings.
It doesnt only happen in monogamy,it is BOTH, but you wont see this because you only see your side,your side is always better.


Also see here that you are flat out denying it doesnt happen in an open relationship,remember this when you backtrack later.

We all can agree that open relationships are not for everyone. It can be both an enhancement to some and destructive to others. One way is not particularly better than the other. It's a matter of "to each their own". We each have the right to live and do as we please so long as it doesn't hurt others. Monogamy is perfectly acceptable and commendable if that is what they both desire and it makes them happy.

But the problem is that in spite of being happy or not in your relationship approximately 50% of married individuals will engage in infidelity at some time during their marriage. The sad thing is that divorce is so common now that we thing nothing of it. Yet society as a whole looks unfavorably on those who have an open relationship even if it makes them feel happy and brings them even closer. This makes no sense to me.

 

[Odo]

I don't think that infidelity is caused by 'denying one's true nature' or because everyone wants to have sex with lots of different people... it's mostly due to feeling neglected in some way in the context of a marriage, which is something that can happen pretty easily when family and work is involved. Cheating is often an irresponsible way of lashing out, and is usually inherently selfish.

Citing infidelity statistics isn't really an argument in favor of open relationships and it doesn't somehow validate the act as being more 'natural' than monogamy. It also doesn't mean that this is always the solution to marital issues or that it's something that would be more common if only people weren't held back by their timidity and misguided sense of social duty.

I think it's more like a niche fetish sort of thing, like dressing up in leather or getting peed on.

 

[gazelle]

I don't think that infidelity is caused by 'denying one's true nature' or because everyone wants to have sex with lots of different people... it's mostly due to feeling neglected in some way in the context of a marriage, which is something that can happen pretty easily when family and work is involved. Cheating is often an irresponsible way of lashing out, and is usually inherently selfish.

From a realistic point of view, I find the above mentioned to be more close to reality. I've seen cases of at once perfect seeming couples becoming prone to cheating and infidelity in certain times of their marriages, like at times that either one was too busy with work and work related stress or when an other had become depressed for example .
On the other hand, I've also seen these couples rebuild their relationships and regain their enthusiasms like day one after working on their issues and having their needs being met.
What I'm talking about here has nothing to do with swinging, I'm talking about the concept of finding it ok to get involved with someone else as soon as someone feels their relationship isn't exiting anymore. And really, if someone isn't that suitable. then why not just get separated instead of being in an open relationship? :idontknow:

 

[HHDisturbed]

I don't think that infidelity is caused by 'denying one's true nature' or because everyone wants to have sex with lots of different people... it's mostly due to feeling neglected in some way in the context of a marriage, which is something that can happen pretty easily when family and work is involved. Cheating is often an irresponsible way of lashing out, and is usually inherently selfish.

Citing infidelity statistics isn't really an argument in favor of open relationships and it doesn't somehow validate the act as being more 'natural' than monogamy. It also doesn't mean that this is always the solution to marital issues or that it's something that would be more common if only people weren't held back by their timidity and misguided sense of social duty.

I think it's more like a niche fetish sort of thing, like dressing up in leather or getting peed on.

LOL...no one getting peed on here lets make that perfectly clear!!!

But I can see how one might see these things as a fetish. I agree with some of what you are saying with the exception of the "feeling neglected" part. Maybe it is for some but we already had and have a wonderful intimate relationship at home. We don't do what we do because we were missing anything in our relationship but rather to add some additional spice and excitement to our inimacy. I also think that age may play a bit of a role as well. Many people enter swinging for the first time around age 40 to 50 when kids are grown or almost grown. Many people in their 40s or 50s also tend to have a more relaxed view on sexuality because they've pretty much done all you can do with just two.

In my case, I had my first 3-some at age 18 so I already knew how much I enjoyed the "naughty" arts. Let me also make it clear that I am neither arguing FOR open relationships or claiming that it's more natural than a monogamous relationship. I also believe that an open marraige is NEVER a solution to any marital issues. Read my posts...I am simply sharing my dark secret and wondering what others thought on the subject.

But I simply don't understand why people condemn the concept of an open marriage if BOTH agree to it. Often the alternative is a failed marriage. They often fail because after several years things like passion fade and sex becomes "routine" leading to dissatisfaction and unfulfillment of one or both. What we engage in has actually brought us even closer and made our personal love life more passionate. We are happy, our playmates are happy...so why condemn it? Of course, results may vary.

But anyway, I am not even sure you can call what we do a truly "open marriage". To us that sort of implies that we play on our own and separately and with different people. What we do is always 100% together and usually in the same bed. We dont ever go into separate rooms to play. That is one of our rules because all of our fantasies include each other. We just happen to be very adventurous and both highly sexually charged. But I can also can see how the desire for fantasy fufillment would not be of interest to those who do not have deep sexual fantasies or desires.

What I'm talking about here has nothing to do with swinging, I'm talking about the concept of finding it ok to get involved with someone else as soon as someone feels their relationship isn't exiting anymore. And really, if someone isn't that suitable. then why not just get separated instead of being in an open relationship? :idontknow:

We love each other deeply, have a great marriage and will be together till the end. There is zero doubt of that in either of our minds. We believe that sex is not love and love is not sex. Lovemaking and casual sex are also two very different things. These beleifs are commonly shared by those in the "swinger" community.