nervousness around women...

[no1]

perhaps instinct is not simply feelings?

perhaps we shouldn't ONLY listen to feelings? Perhaps you feel that way because you want to feel that way. Perhaps..

and a lot of women use this excuse to betray those they consider "losers". remember perceptions are just that: perceptions.

I'm not saying you shouldn't protect yourself.

I'm not saying you shouldn't listen to your feelings.. But give them some thought u know.
I think the majority of women are taught to ONLY listen to their feelings, and the majority of men are taught NOT to listen to their feelings, and only use their 'analytical' side of the brain.

We have a gut, and a cortical brain, with differnt hemispheres. We are not to just use one part exclusively,unless all the others simply suck lol.

 

[NothingElseMatters]

just put yourself in the other person's position no1

 

[Sinar_Matahari]

what the **** people need to stop being so damn close minded about others. stop going for the assholes and jerks. stop BELIEVING you like those and hate the nice guy and/or the shy timid types, or the types that just want to RESPECT your personal space instead of having the confidence to violate them. IT IS KILLING THE HUMAN RACE.

First, is it not close-minded of you to say that people go for assholes and jerks because they believe that hey have to like them instead of the nice, shy or timid guys?When you say people it seems as though you are implying that all people do this. Generalizing is not being open-minded.

Isn't everyone entitled to their own tastes? Why does one person have to like you instead of a more outgoing person? Is the human race going to die out just because someone out there doesn't gravitate towards you or other people who are timid and shy? I'm sure that there are people out there who prefer people who are shy and timid. Would it be okay for an outgoing person to be angered at this or claim that it's killing the human race?

There is a difference between a confident man and an asshole. Assholes are usually loud, make their presence known and aren't timid. They're fun to watch in movies but not so much in real life. Most of the assholes that I've met were just as insecure as any timid man. I know that some people mistake arrogance for confidence. From what I've read, you sound like you're very angry and bitter. No woman is going to give you a chance if you're insecure, bitter and angry. You have to understand that your attitude is going to be a turn-off.

Perhaps you think of yourself as a nice guy who is entitled to having a girlfriend because you're nice? I can't judge you because I don't know you but the attitude that you've shown doesn't tell me that you're a nice guy.
I had my pick of assholes and "nice guys" and let me tell you that a lot of the self-described nice guys were in fact not that much nicer than the assholes. They were just not outgoing or dominant like the assholes. But they began showing their asshole side after they figured out that I wasn't going to date them or be romantically interested in them. Playing the part of the poor nice guy who was angered that women "never like me" doesn't get people attracted to you. It comes across as undignified. Only because you are shy and timid doesn't mean that you have to think or behave without dignity.

I married a genuine nice guy. We've been together for seven years and married for six. He has his insecurites and anxieties but he never expected me to like him just because he's nice and he never felt that he had some entitlement to me just because he wasn't an asshole like his friends. He never made himself out to be a victim even if he had been badly treated by women in the past. He had enough dignity to not think of himself as a victim. He never expected me to be interested in me but he never became angry or bitter at me.

Now, I could be totally wrong about you but from what you've been saying, you sound a lot like those "nice guys" I've met. Is it a coincidence that a lot of those men would tell me that women treat them like creeps and end up with assholes. I never treated them like they were creeps, I hung out with them and treated them with the same decency that I would treat any other human being. This didn't mean that I had to be their girlfriend. Then they behave like assholes when I don't want to sleep with them or be their girlfriend. Worst of all they think that they're totally justified to do so! They really believe that I did them some wrong. They don't even realize what assholes they are.

I refuse to feel bad because I did nothing wrong. I don't need people like that in my life. This is one of the reasons I don't hang out with guys who aren't my family or really close friends. I don't need this crap and maybe other women are trying to avoid this as well.

 

[Sinar_Matahari]

They feed off wars, and fear, and torture extreme materialism.. They keep fighting each other etc. What am I supposed to think?

So you do think that women are monsters. And you think men are monsters. So are you culpable as well? Don't say yes just to be fair. Really, do you consider yourself to be the bad guy like the rest of us or are you the victim? Let us not forget that we can all be both victims and victimizers. It's a lot more difficult to feel like a victim once you realize that you're capable of being a victimizer as well. That is unless one is a hypocrite or a sociopath. lol

I am sorry but I don't think I see what the last two statements have to do with the original post. The original post was about how women respond to nervousness. Men weren't specified. Men didn't seem to be the focus at all. I find that most people find it more devastating to be rejected by women than men. Some people in society hold a false belief that women should be nurturing and accomodating to all. This isn't possible. I suppose it's because we become mothers, but not all women are the mothering/nurturing type.

 

[Sinar_Matahari]

Unfortunately most people find shy people like myself to be creepy, all through school and college i was called ''creepy'' by a lot of people.

That is unfortunate, but maybe they're doing you a favor because who needs people like that in their life anyway? Thank you for saying most and not generalizing everyone. I've met outgoing and timid people alike that creeped me out.

I had a friend in school who people thought was creepy because she was very quiet. She had beautiful, icy blue eyes, dark hair and really pale skin. I knew that there wasn't anything wrong with her. I could tell that she was very observant and smarter than most people. She warmed up to me and eventually confided that she had been very surprised when I had said that I bet she's smarter than our whole group put together. Her IQ was in fact off the charts. She wasn't just book smart either.

 

[Rodox]

Girls can like anything they want, its a free world,maybe you are chasing the wrong kind of girls?

 

[Sinar_Matahari]

Girls can like anything they want, its a free world,maybe you are chasing the wrong kind of girls?

You made a very valid point. In my experiences, men who think like No1 chase after very pretty women but wouldn't consider giving less attractive women a chance. They feel that they are somehow entitled to having the prettiest girls around. They themselves value superior looks in women above all other qualities. Not that there is anything wrong with pretty women but they're just as human as everyone else. I really believe that people like this don't think very highly of women in the first place.

I've met men who thought low of themselves but then were angry at women for not liking them. What this tells me is that they see women as inferior otherwise why would they expect women to be interested in them when they themselves can't even stand looking in the mirror? They wouldn't expect a person of "superior" status to accept or welcome them. Why else would they experience rejection from women as a gross injustice? It's either that or they expect women to be the self-sacrificing, always understanding and supportive, mother figure.

It's a myth that all women should or will be motherly and accomodating to everyone. It's not very fair to put this responsibility on people. Not all women are meant to be mothers just as not all men were meant to be fathers. Not all women are going to be understanding, sweet or passive. This isn't expected of men. Let us not forget that we are all human beings.

Now I'm not saying that this No1 is necessarily this way but he certainly says a lot of things as the sort of men I've described above.

 

[no1]

You made a very valid point. In my experiences, men who think like No1 chase after very pretty women but wouldn't consider giving less attractive women a chance. They feel that they are somehow entitled to having the prettiest girls around. They themselves value superior looks in women above all other qualities. Not that there is anything wrong with pretty women but they're just as human as everyone else. I really believe that people like this don't think very highly of women in the first place.

I've met men who thought low of themselves but then were angry at women for not liking them. What this tells me is that they see women as inferior otherwise why would they expect women to be interested in them when they themselves can't even stand looking in the mirror? They wouldn't expect a person of "superior" status to accept or welcome them. Why else would they experience rejection from women as a gross injustice? It's either that or they expect women to be the self-sacrificing, always understanding and supportive, mother figure.

It's a myth that all women should or will be motherly and accomodating to everyone. It's not very fair to put this responsibility on people. Not all women are meant to be mothers just as not all men were meant to be fathers. Not all women are going to be understanding, sweet or passive. This isn't expected of men. Let us not forget that we are all human beings.

Now I'm not saying that this No1 is necessarily this way but he certainly says a lot of things as the sort of men I've described above.

wow. I shouldn't even say anything but yea even the 'less than pretty girls' don't give me a chance.

 

[no1]

First, is it not close-minded of you to say that people go for assholes and jerks because they believe that hey have to like them instead of the nice, shy or timid guys?When you say people it seems as though you are implying that all people do this. Generalizing is not being open-minded.

Isn't everyone entitled to their own tastes? Why does one person have to like you instead of a more outgoing person? Is the human race going to die out just because someone out there doesn't gravitate towards you or other people who are timid and shy? I'm sure that there are people out there who prefer people who are shy and timid. Would it be okay for an outgoing person to be angered at this or claim that it's killing the human race?

There is a difference between a confident man and an asshole. Assholes are usually loud, make their presence known and aren't timid. They're fun to watch in movies but not so much in real life. Most of the assholes that I've met were just as insecure as any timid man. I know that some people mistake arrogance for confidence. From what I've read, you sound like you're very angry and bitter. No woman is going to give you a chance if you're insecure, bitter and angry. You have to understand that your attitude is going to be a turn-off.

Perhaps you think of yourself as a nice guy who is entitled to having a girlfriend because you're nice? I can't judge you because I don't know you but the attitude that you've shown doesn't tell me that you're a nice guy.
I had my pick of assholes and "nice guys" and let me tell you that a lot of the self-described nice guys were in fact not that much nicer than the assholes. They were just not outgoing or dominant like the assholes. But they began showing their asshole side after they figured out that I wasn't going to date them or be romantically interested in them. Playing the part of the poor nice guy who was angered that women "never like me" doesn't get people attracted to you. It comes across as undignified. Only because you are shy and timid doesn't mean that you have to think or behave without dignity.

I married a genuine nice guy. We've been together for seven years and married for six. He has his insecurites and anxieties but he never expected me to like him just because he's nice and he never felt that he had some entitlement to me just because he wasn't an asshole like his friends. He never made himself out to be a victim even if he had been badly treated by women in the past. He had enough dignity to not think of himself as a victim. He never expected me to be interested in me but he never became angry or bitter at me.

Now, I could be totally wrong about you but from what you've been saying, you sound a lot like those "nice guys" I've met. Is it a coincidence that a lot of those men would tell me that women treat them like creeps and end up with assholes. I never treated them like they were creeps, I hung out with them and treated them with the same decency that I would treat any other human being. This didn't mean that I had to be their girlfriend. Then they behave like assholes when I don't want to sleep with them or be their girlfriend. Worst of all they think that they're totally justified to do so! They really believe that I did them some wrong. They don't even realize what assholes they are.

I refuse to feel bad because I did nothing wrong. I don't need people like that in my life. This is one of the reasons I don't hang out with guys who aren't my family or really close friends. I don't need this crap and maybe other women are trying to avoid this as well.

you know I think most women say the same thing. "I'm sure there are lots of women out there who will like the nice and/or timid guy. But not me." In fact I think most women say that, but don't think that they could be that one. it's like I see a lot of fatties say the same thing. They dont want a fat guy. But the men on the other hand, will usually give a fatty a chance simply because she's a woman.

I think you are misunderstanding me. You're telling me a woman won't give me a chance. I'm acting natural for my condition. All I need is someone to show me something else. You're just telling me that nobody will ever give me a chance even if I needed it.

thanks.

if I saw a person who needed help and I could give help I would give it. Even if that person is a bit irritating, and perhaps he/she is only irritating because he/she needs help. But on the other hand a woman who sees a guy who has any problems at all, or even different, is usually considered an abomination.

 

[no1]

You talk about dignity Serafina. But what I have is considered a dysfunction, an illness and abnormal. The fact that girls never liked me, the fact that I am so alone, and am unable to find people who I have anything in common with, or who will accept me for who I am as a friend, the fact that I am an outcast to society IS unhealthy to my state, and mind, and my being. Have you ever considered that?

perhaps, your husband has had his share of women liking him at least in the past. something which I lack.

 

[no1]

Serafina. You totally misunderstand me I'm sorry. I feel like posting all these replies quickly. I'm still reading your replies.

The fact that no woman would want to be my girlfriend is sad but I'm not just talking about that! Its the fact that I'm not even treated like a normal person because I appear to be a little shy/timid, and different from the majority of assholes/pricks.

 

[no1]

I dont know.. the idea I get from your post is that in fact ALL nice guys are really assholes on the inside. but you said you married a genuine nice guy. well I'm glad for that.

 

[Sinar_Matahari]

You talk about dignity Serafina. But what I have is considered a dysfunction, an illness and abnormal. The fact that girls never liked me, the fact that I am so alone, and am unable to find people who I have anything in common with, or who will accept me for who I am as a friend, the fact that I am an outcast to society IS unhealthy to my state, and mind, and my being. Have you ever considered that?

I have to admit. At first, I felt sorry for you but now I realize that you feed off of people's pity. No one here is doing you a favor if they respond with pity. There's only so much that peope here can do. I understand that you are alone. I know exactly what that feels like. You coming on these forums to complain is your way of trying to interact with people. You're lucky that most people here are a lot more understanding because people out there do not want to have anything to do with you. I don't mean this to be callous but I can understand why.

People out there have problems of their own to deal with and can't take you and your problems on as well. It's selfish of you to expect them to be your friends and accept you the way you are. You don't even accept yourself the way you are! You worry too much about finding friends and girlfriends, and wallowing in your self-pity that you fail to realize that what you really need is to focus on getting some professional help for your physical and mental health.Things will not change until you are healed.

I see a lot of people here who complain and are angry, and it's okay to rant and rave to get things off of one's chest but eventually you have to get some help. People become addicted to self-pity and anger. I've been around people like you before and I can tell you right now that your attitude and behavior bring people down. In the end others have no choice but to keep their distance.

 

[userremoved]

I have to admit. At first, I felt sorry for you but now I realize that you feed off of people's pity. No one here is doing you a favor if they respond with pity. There's only so much that peope here can do. I understand that you are alone. I know exactly what that feels like. You coming on these forums to complain is your way of trying to interact with people. You're lucky that most people here are a lot more understanding because people out there do not want to have anything to do with you. I don't mean this to be callous but I can understand why.

People out there have problems of their own to deal with and can't take you and your problems on as well. It's selfish of you to expect them to be your friends and accept you the way you are. You don't even accept yourself the way you are! You worry too much about finding friends and girlfriends, and wallowing in your self-pity that you fail to realize that what you really need is to focus on getting some professional help for your physical and mental health.Things will not change until you are healed.

I see a lot of people here who complain and are angry, and it's okay to rant and rave to get things off of one's chest but eventually you have to get some help. People become addicted to self-pity and anger. I've been around people like you before and I can tell you right now that your attitude and behavior bring people down. In the end others have no choice but to keep their distance.

You hit pretty hard but it's the truth. We should make our main focus getting help for our problem now and learn to love ourselves first instead of fretting over not feeling loved by others. I mean being with someone can be great but it doesn't solve all problems, it might even make you more insecure about losing them lol. Anyway once you learn to stop looking at yourself as a creep and overcome this problem, if people still don't like the new, confident, and mature you then screw them. They're the creeps.

 

[Sinar_Matahari]

you know I think most women say the same thing. "I'm sure there are lots of women out there who will like the nice and/or timid guy. But not me." In fact I think most women say that, but don't think that they could be that one. it's like I see a lot of fatties say the same thing. They dont want a fat guy. But the men on the other hand, will usually give a fatty a chance simply because she's a woman.

For someone who is all alone and has no friends you seem to know so much about people. If you knew anything about people then you wouldn't say half of the things you say. You take your anger and bitterness out on women. Evil women! Why can't they just accept you the way you are? Chances are men don't want to be around you either. I've seen plenty of heavy couples. If you take a good look around then you will see all sorts of couples. My husband is a heavy man and I'm thin so how does this fit into your world view? BTW it's not kind to refer to people as fat or fatties. Have you considered that there may be people on this forum that may be hurt by those terms?

I think you are misunderstanding me. You're telling me a woman won't give me a chance. I'm acting natural for my condition. All I need is someone to show me something else. You're just telling me that nobody will ever give me a chance even if I needed it.

thanks.

Is this is an attempt to illicit feelings of guilt from me then it is truly rotten of you. I know when I've done wrong and I've done no wrong by you. But if you insist on playing the victim. Just know that you're not helping others who are trying to give you a chance here. No one would be responding to you at all if no one was trying to give you a chance. I'm constantly met with misogynystic comments from you and I'm still here. You want a chance? Well, you've got one more but don't try that guilt-trip bull-s*** on me anymore because I am no one's fool and I will not put up with any further abuse. Deal? There are plenty of people on this forum who have problems but they treat one another with respect.

You are so desperate for a chance but you really need some professional help. If you want I'll do some research on insomnia and see what I can find that might be helpful to you. I have to tell you though that there is only so much I can do.

if I saw a person who needed help and I could give help I would give it. Even if that person is a bit irritating, and perhaps he/she is only irritating because he/she needs help. But on the other hand a woman who sees a guy who has any problems at all, or even different, is usually considered an abomination.

When was the last time you saw someone that needed help and actually helped them? Be truthful. There are plenty of people on this forum, even the really angry ones, who want to get better who actually try. You have no idea how many times I have tried to help others. So for yo to say the things you say about women is a gross injustice.

It's so easy to make women out to be the monsters. Even if you had a girlfriend do you really think that your unhealthy, hateful view of women will enable you to have a healthy relationship?

 

[Sinar_Matahari]

I dont know.. the idea I get from your post is that in fact ALL nice guys are really assholes on the inside. but you said you married a genuine nice guy. well I'm glad for that.

Please read my posts again. I didn't say that all nice guys are assholes. I did make mention that there is a difference between guys who say that they are nice and guys who are genuinely nice. Sometimes people who think they are nice really never question their own motives, actions or behavior.

 

[no1]

just forget it. it's pointless.

btw I've tried professional help: it doesn't work. or at least the one I went to.

 

[no1]

I just feel like I can't do it alone. I can't get better alone. i've been alone all my life, and to be more and more alone, might only make me worse. who knows I may never pull through because I'm so lonely that I don't even feel like getting better, I can't. because it takes connections to get better. that I can't even make. I don't care so much for a 'girlfriend' I just want someone who can help me or be my friend. I can't do everything by myself, in fact.. I can do nothing by myself as it is.

 

[Cynic]

^You might as well kill yourself then.

 

[no1]

pretty much. but I don't know why you wink at me when you say shit like that.