Mcdonalds or Burger King?

[Lea]

I've actually seen this kind of discussion before, and it turned into a heated debate where both sides didn't get to have the moral high ground. I also need to add that I personally find the mere concept of ''The moral highground'' a ridicules and pretentious concept.

I am sorry but this made me annoyed. Maybe I (and people like me) are ridiculous but NOT PRETENTIOUS!!! The opinion that "moral highground is a ridiculous and pretentious concept" can say only people who only rationalize, but don't FEEL it, so they assume that others who do are pretentious because they themselves can't understand it. If you are not sorry for the animals, then it is difficult to understand that others genuinely may be and easy to rationalize about how "natural" meat eating is. It is just a cold logic without heart. This is what is more ridiculous to me, esp. the comparing the death of a vegetable with the death of a cow (btw people who care most usually choose to be fruitarians). In my opinion animals are much more close to humans than to vegetables, so if your philosophy was right, you could say it's just as natural to kill our fellow humans and eat them. You can eat for example small children, what would you say to that?? Hm, I can imagine those hysterical mothers and humanity workers etc. And if this meat was served at Burger King or Mac Donnald, nobody would go there and people would protest. But when it is "only" animals, everything is allright, and life is how it should be. Nazi death camps were also logical to the nazis, everything was perfectly thought out, one nazi (can't remember which one) said: "Nature is cruel, so we have the right to be cruel." They treated the humans just as people treat cattle and poultry today, used the strongest ones for work and those who couldn't work and were weak, were killed with possibly cheapest - but not painless - method. Because they were thinking in a merely utilitarian way, they didn't get a **** about human pain, people were merely things to them.

Btw I have been to India, they are all vegetarians and happy about it. I travelled there for 3 months and getting meat is almost impossible, even the Mac Donalds etc serve burgers only with vegetables. Only ocassionaly they have spots with killing poultry, fish or some goat but that's quite rare. Cows are walking on the streets and people worship them or bring them food scraps. I find it nice and think how nicer the world would be, if we worshipped animals instead of killing them!!

I think refusing personal guilt and shedding it all on higher places is not right. Because you know, they are doing the same. They "product meat" just only because people require it. It is a vicious circle and it has to be broken somewhere. You can´t change the decision of higher places, the only thing you can do is start by yourself. People often reason, that some thigs and daily acts are too small to matter, but they are NOT. Btw if we stop eating meat, we can save like 50 huns a year, one cow, one pig, 100 fishes etc... (maybe my counting is not quite right, but it is a lot). Now imagine, how many animals we save during our whole lives like this!! Imagine you should kill each of these creatures - including big animals - by yourself. Most people who are not psychopathic would suffer a HUGE guilt complex and nightmares etc. But when it´s done behind high strong walls and we don't have to witness their suffering and pain, it is allright for us. THIS IS WHAT I CALL PRETENTIOUS. Or just ignorat, in case you're not right psychopathic.

 

[miss_amy]

OMG culvers butter burgers. Get me back over that ocean.

If the choice is only McDs or burgerking then burgerking wins hands down for me.

 

[Aru_Sarutobi]

I would eat from burger king any day of the week, but mcdonalds? NAH

 

[DarkPhoenix]

I am sorry but this made me annoyed. Maybe I (and people like me) are ridiculous but NOT PRETENTIOUS!!! The opinion that "moral highground is a ridiculous and pretentious concept" can say only people who only rationalize, but don't FEEL it, so they assume that others who do are pretentious because they themselves can't understand it. If you are not sorry for the animals, then it is difficult to understand that others genuinely may be and easy to rationalize about how "natural" meat eating is. It is just a cold logic without heart. This is what is more ridiculous to me, esp. the comparing the death of a vegetable with the death of a cow (btw people who care most usually choose to be fruitarians). In my opinion animals are much more close to humans than to vegetables, so if your philosophy was right, you could say it's just as natural to kill our fellow humans and eat them. You can eat for example small children, what would you say to that?? Hm, I can imagine those hysterical mothers and humanity workers etc. And if this meat was served at Burger King or Mac Donnald, nobody would go there and people would protest. But when it is "only" animals, everything is allright, and life is how it should be. Nazi death camps were also logical to the nazis, everything was perfectly thought out, one nazi (can't remember which one) said: "Nature is cruel, so we have the right to be cruel." They treated the humans just as people treat cattle and poultry today, used the strongest ones for work and those who couldn't work and were weak, were killed with possibly cheapest - but not painless - method. Because they were thinking in a merely utilitarian way, they didn't get a **** about human pain, people were merely things to them.

Btw I have been to India, they are all vegetarians and happy about it. I travelled there for 3 months and getting meat is almost impossible, even the Mac Donalds etc serve burgers only with vegetables. Only ocassionaly they have spots with killing poultry, fish or some goat but that's quite rare. Cows are walking on the streets and people worship them or bring them food scraps. I find it nice and think how nicer the world would be, if we worshipped animals instead of killing them!!

I think refusing personal guilt and shedding it all on higher places is not right. Because you know, they are doing the same. They "product meat" just only because people require it. It is a vicious circle and it has to be broken somewhere. You can´t change the decision of higher places, the only thing you can do is start by yourself. People often reason, that some thigs and daily acts are too small to matter, but they are NOT. Btw if we stop eating meat, we can save like 50 huns a year, one cow, one pig, 100 fishes etc... (maybe my counting is not quite right, but it is a lot). Now imagine, how many animals we save during our whole lives like this!! Imagine you should kill each of these creatures - including big animals - by yourself. Most people who are not psychopathic would suffer a HUGE guilt complex and nightmares etc. But when it´s done behind high strong walls and we don't have to witness their suffering and pain, it is allright for us. THIS IS WHAT I CALL PRETENTIOUS. Or just ignorat, in case you're not right psychopathic.

Brilliant post. Animals think, feel and experience pain just like us, and we assume because we are of a higher intelligence it gives us the right to confine these animals to unsanitary environments and brutally murder and butcher them. Having a higher intellect should make us more responsible for these animals, just like an adult is for a child but we choose to wave this responsibility. The cruel practices in the fast food industry are an abomination to humanity, we should be embarrassed and outraged by them but most people dont spare a second thought for the life of these poor animals that are sacrificed in the name of gluttony.

 

[BlackPuma]

I am sorry but this made me annoyed. Maybe I (and people like me) are ridiculous but NOT PRETENTIOUS!!! The opinion that "moral highground is a ridiculous and pretentious concept" can say only people who only rationalize, but don't FEEL it, so they assume that others who do are pretentious because they themselves can't understand it. If you are not sorry for the animals, then it is difficult to understand that others genuinely may be and easy to rationalize about how "natural" meat eating is. It is just a cold logic without heart. This is what is more ridiculous to me, esp. the comparing the death of a vegetable with the death of a cow (btw people who care most usually choose to be fruitarians). In my opinion animals are much more close to humans than to vegetables, so if your philosophy was right, you could say it's just as natural to kill our fellow humans and eat them. You can eat for example small children, what would you say to that?? Hm, I can imagine those hysterical mothers and humanity workers etc. And if this meat was served at Burger King or Mac Donnald, nobody would go there and people would protest. But when it is "only" animals, everything is allright, and life is how it should be. Nazi death camps were also logical to the nazis, everything was perfectly thought out, one nazi (can't remember which one) said: "Nature is cruel, so we have the right to be cruel." They treated the humans just as people treat cattle and poultry today, used the strongest ones for work and those who couldn't work and were weak, were killed with possibly cheapest - but not painless - method. Because they were thinking in a merely utilitarian way, they didn't get a **** about human pain, people were merely things to them.

Btw I have been to India, they are all vegetarians and happy about it. I travelled there for 3 months and getting meat is almost impossible, even the Mac Donalds etc serve burgers only with vegetables. Only ocassionaly they have spots with killing poultry, fish or some goat but that's quite rare. Cows are walking on the streets and people worship them or bring them food scraps. I find it nice and think how nicer the world would be, if we worshipped animals instead of killing them!!

I think refusing personal guilt and shedding it all on higher places is not right. Because you know, they are doing the same. They "product meat" just only because people require it. It is a vicious circle and it has to be broken somewhere. You can´t change the decision of higher places, the only thing you can do is start by yourself. People often reason, that some thigs and daily acts are too small to matter, but they are NOT. Btw if we stop eating meat, we can save like 50 huns a year, one cow, one pig, 100 fishes etc... (maybe my counting is not quite right, but it is a lot). Now imagine, how many animals we save during our whole lives like this!! Imagine you should kill each of these creatures - including big animals - by yourself. Most people who are not psychopathic would suffer a HUGE guilt complex and nightmares etc. But when it´s done behind high strong walls and we don't have to witness their suffering and pain, it is allright for us. THIS IS WHAT I CALL PRETENTIOUS. Or just ignorat, in case you're not right psychopathic.

I value a plant just as much as I value a cow. They are just as big a part of this ecosystem as everything else. Yes, I personally like cows more. Because it's a breathing and walking creature, I can identify with it and thusly would feel happier around a cow then I would around a plant. But that's just it, that's my experience in the matter. One that is caused by my personal feelings of familiarity. When looking at things that concerns more then just yourself, you have to put your own feelings aside, look to everyone involved- and from their point of view, and rationalize to your best ability.

Like I said before, I am against the horrible methods used. Did you not read that? Nazi's are a good example of the moral highground comment. The moral highground comment was directed at all those who simply dismiss/ignore/ridicule an opinion because it strongly differs from their own. The Nazi Germans in WWII also believed that what they did was ''the right thing to do''. They were convinced that they were superior, and were convinced their suffering was caused by others. Blinded by their feelings and opinions they justified committing genocide. People acting just because they feel they are any more ''right'' then the other is one of most common causes of conflict. Mentality and especially feelings are EXTREMELY gullible. As such, personal feelings and opinions should not overrule given knowledge. ''Some of the worst things imaginable, are done with the best intentions.''.

What we know is:
People are aware of their lifespan causing them to be scared and opinionated about death. Most animals do not.
Many people like meat, and the demand for it is high.
High demand often result in mass production.
Mass production needs strict regulations to ensure a certain quality.
Laws can be changed/new laws can be added.
Animals can feel pain.
Animals are suffering a lot due to methods in the meat industry.
People can feel pain themselves, and understand what it feels like.
The meat industry can use more humane methods.

With these statics, the sensible solution would be; a long organic life for the animals without the traditional cruelties. New laws for methods are to be discussed. While still providing a high margin for the meat market.

 

[Lea]

Brilliant post. Animals think, feel and experience pain just like us, and we assume because we are of a higher intelligence it gives us the right to confine these animals to unsanitary environments and brutally murder and butcher them. Having a higher intellect should make us more responsible for these animals, just like an adult is for a child but we choose to wave this responsibility. The cruel practices in the fast food industry are an abomination to humanity, we should be embarrassed and outraged by them but most people dont spare a second thought for the life of these poor animals that are sacrificed in the name of gluttony.

Thank you! I am glad finally someone who thinks the same. I wholeheartedly agree with what you say.

 

[Phoenixx]

Neither. I'm studying to be a nutritionist, and though it doesn't make me totally anal about junkfood, it has made me realize how crappy the food at both McD and BK is and why:

The bread is flavorless - more or less a lot of empty calories, and the fries are most likely cooked in cheap palm oil.
I'd grab a good sandwich or kebab or something, instead

^ That's what I want to major in when I go to college. I'm already studying it now cuz it's pretty interesting to me. I say the same about BK and McDonald's. I would choose neither.

 

[Liam17]

^ That's what I want to major in when I go to college. I'm already studying it now cuz it's pretty interesting to me. I say the same about BK and McDonald's. I would choose neither.

Burgerking is amazing.
Mcdonalds just tastes like salt.

The guy that said by a kebab. Thats just as bad :L.

 

[Phoenixx]

Burgerking is amazing.
Mcdonalds just tastes like salt.

The guy that said by a kebab. Thats just as bad :L.

^ BK is alright, but I have to admit I'm a sucker for their fries. :: Kebabs can be healthy, just depends on how they're made.

 

[Liam17]

^ BK is alright, but I have to admit I'm a sucker for their fries. :: Kebabs can be healthy, just depends on how they're made.

Yeah, but you could say that about anything on 'how it's made'.

The fact is burgerking where i am, it isn't actually fast food. It's cooked to order, you have to wait a while. It's better for you than the mass produced, salty mcdonalds. The only unhealthy thing i'd say is the fries at burgerking, cause there just fried. No salt on them though, thank god.

 

[Lea]

I value a plant just as much as I value a cow. They are just as big a part of this ecosystem as everything else. Yes, I personally like cows more. Because it's a breathing and walking creature, I can identify with it and thusly would feel happier around a cow then I would around a plant. But that's just it, that's my experience in the matter. One that is caused by my personal feelings of familiarity. When looking at things that concerns more then just yourself, you have to put your own feelings aside, look to everyone involved- and from their point of view, and rationalize to your best ability.

Like I said before, I am against the horrible methods used. Did you not read that? Nazi's are a good example of the moral highground comment. The moral highground comment was directed at all those who simply dismiss/ignore/ridicule an opinion because it strongly differs from their own. The Nazi Germans in WWII also believed that what they did was ''the right thing to do''. They were convinced that they were superior, and were convinced their suffering was caused by others. Blinded by their feelings and opinions they justified committing genocide. People acting just because they feel they are any more ''right'' then the other is one of most common causes of conflict. Mentality and especially feelings are EXTREMELY gullible. As such, personal feelings and opinions should not overrule given knowledge. ''Some of the worst things imaginable, are done with the best intentions.''.

What we know is:
People are aware of their lifespan causing them to be scared and opinionated about death. Most animals do not.
Many people like meat, and the demand for it is high.
High demand often result in mass production.
Mass production needs strict regulations to ensure a certain quality.
Laws can be changed/new laws can be added.
Animals can feel pain.
Animals are suffering a lot due to methods in the meat industry.
People can feel pain themselves, and understand what it feels like.
The meat industry can use more humane methods.

With these statics, the sensible solution would be; a long organic life for the animals without the traditional cruelties. New laws for methods are to be discussed. While still providing a high margin for the meat market.

What I meant to say, plants do not have nervesystem like animals or humans. Maybe they feel something in a way, but it is by far not that horrible as with animals/humans. It is obvious that although animals are not as intellectual as humans, they have very comparable bodies and nervous system, therefore can feel pain just as much as us. Btw does my hair growing on me feel any pain? I don't think so.. We have to eat something and I find it quite common sense that it is much less cruel to sacrifice plants than animals. We can avoid even this by eating fruits and nuts..

I am glad you don't agree with the way of how is meat produce done today, but unfortunately it is the only way it is done so any meat we buy, it will be from there. Unless it is organic which is a tiny percentage of it all and is extremely expensive so that only rich people who don't have to bother about money can afford it.

 

[coyote]

I am glad you don't agree with the way of how is meat produce done today, but unfortunately it is the only way it is done so any meat we buy, it will be from there. Unless it is organic which is a tiny percentage of it all and is extremely expensive so that only rich people who don't have to bother about money can afford it.

here's just one of several farms that raise organic beef right down the road from me:

Waseda Farms ? Organic Beef, Door County, WI

it's not really that expensive at all

 

[miss_amy]

Bacon sandwich anyone???

 

[Phoenixx]

Yeah, but you could say that about anything on 'how it's made'.

^ Agreed. Not sure why I didn't even post that, as I was thinking it. Now I feel retarded as I tried to make a point. :: ::

The fact is burgerking where i am, it isn't actually fast food. It's cooked to order, you have to wait a while. It's better for you than the mass produced, salty mcdonalds. The only unhealthy thing i'd say is the fries at burgerking, cause there just fried. No salt on them though, thank god.

^ Yeah BK is slightly better than McDonald's. But overall, it's still mass produced and most of the food still contains preservatives.

 

[Liam17]

^ Agreed. Not sure why I didn't even post that, as I was thinking it. Now I feel retarded as I tried to make a point. :: ::


^ Yeah BK is slightly better than McDonald's. But overall, it's still mass produced and most of the food still contains preservatives.

Yeah i'll agree with that

 

[Remus]

Whether I am a carnivore or vegetarian, nothing gets my goat more than someone telling me what I should or should not be eating.

 

[coyote]

Whether I am a carnivore or vegetarian, nothing gets my goat more than someone telling me what I should or should not be eating.

you eat goats? :[


chupacabra!

 

[NathanielWingatePeaslee]

you eat goats? :[

Cabrito!

 

[Remus]

you eat goats? :[

Only when I'm having a morrocan

 

[superfluouslyme]

If I have to subject myself to such torture, I would go Burger King. But I would rather have neither.