How much does ugly really count?!?

[Edith]

It doesn't end... even "after" the anxiety you may still be fucked... unless your beautiful - if you're beautiful and have a hot body you'll still be OK.

I'll preface this post by saying that I have been drinking on the beach in the hot sun from 12 to around 2am... so maybe this won't matter when I wake up after posting this (or maybe I won't remember so well).... But I just spent the day hanging out with a bunch of guys in the beach drinking beer and chatting. It was very chill, I met and know these guys from work and we decided to go for a trip this Saturday...

The reason that I post this is that we we're talking about girls and stuff and I felt totally inadequate... they we're going on and on about beautiful girls that they saw and about girls that they wouldn't give the time of day in the past because they we're too ugly (or not so much ugly as just not pretty enough) and it made me feel so ugly and undesirable. Not that I in any way want these guys to desire me in any form (I sincerely don't!) but they are in a way a typical/random slice of the male population and I got a glimpse into it and feel gross now.

These are nice guys, they are smart and good people, but they want a hot girl... and I'm not that. I never thought I was... but I never thought I was that ugly either... I though maybe average, but these guys are average - very average - and they have no interest in girls like me, aka average girls.

I know that this sounds very self centred and self concious and that my personal beliefs about my body image and my perecption of myself factor into what I think more that what actually happens in real life... but I still feel shockingly ugly. Almost saddened by how undesirable I might be to the opposite sex... and their conversation wasn't even masoginistic or vulgar or anything (honestly it wasn't jerk talk... which makes this more wierd... if it were jerk talk I could just call them assholes and call it a day!)... it just put things into a different perspective and now ... I don't know...

...Now that I conquered a lot of things about social anxiety which have plagued me in the past, like talking to people and socializing, aka; having beer on the beach with friends for a weekend trip... I am still kinda fucked

I have social confidence now, but with that social confidence I've aquired the very reveloutionary knowldge that even though I may have the social graces necessry to attract someone... I still probably won't because attraction is initially physical, and I am lacking in that department more that I ever really realised.

It's almost shocking how weird this revelation feels... it makes all my success seem so hollow.

I don't know if this is even related enough to SAD enough to post here... but maybe in an SAD related or non SAD related way you can relate to this...

I don't even know... I feel so deflated. I don't want to settle... and I don't want someone to have to settle for me... I don't want some guy to only talk to me because they think that I'm about as pretty as they can get, or because they think, "She's not so hot... she may be desperate." Not that I want to be apperciated only for my looks... not at all, that's not the point of this I'm aware that "true beauty lies within" and all that, and I don't want a superfical guy... but is this really that superficial? Does it automatically make you suoerficial to want a beautiful woman? I actually don't think so... which makes this all the stranger...

And that makes me sad.

 

[lifes_to_long]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder

 

[IWouldPreferNotTo]

If those guys are average looking, unless they've got massive game, they're not gonna score hot chicks, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

As for you, girls can change their looks in a lot of ways.. their hair, their makeup. If you're insecure about your body then go to the gym. It'll take hard work, but if you want it enough, you can have it.

 

[Edith]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Well. yes of course... that goes without saying, but that;s not what I mean really.

Of course what I think is beautiful is beautiful beacuse I think so...

But there is a general concensess on this shit... am I right?

I don't need to be made to feel better (not that I don't think it's nice or appreciate it...) but what I want is to discuss it. Does anybody out there agree with me that even though we all have varying degrees of ugly and beautiful they all centre around a general understanding of what beauty is? I don't mean specific tastes and preferences... but beauty itself... things which are pleasing to the eye

I can see beauty in things that arn't "beautiful" because they have special meaning to me like a person may develop special meaning to you and they "become" beautiful...

I'm talking initiall beauty, before you know someone... that has to count of rsomething right?! But how much is what I wonder...

 

[Psychedelicious]

For me I seem to think it counts a lot. If I were beautiful I know I would feel much more comfortable around people. Feeling ugly all the time makes my social anxiety a lot worse. I feel like I can never matter to people, and that they won't take me seriously because of the way I look.

 

[IWouldPreferNotTo]

Does anybody out there agree with me that even though we all have varying degrees of ugly and beautiful they all centre around a general understanding of what beauty is?

Yes, there definitely a 'universal' element to beauty. It doesn't define everything, but semetrical faces and hour-glass type bodies (for women) are close to being universal. Hair-color, eye-color, etc are more subjective.

 

[Kien]

Appearance is what matter for me as a male. I mentioned in another thread it's looks what causes attraction. You can still be in love with a girl only becouse of her appearance and while you disslike her personality more or less. I did last summer. I think I can say that we males are in general very superficial. I doubt could ever want to have someone who isn't pretty enough. She must not be fat and must have a really good looking face. And she must be pretty in the way that fits the individual taste. I'm don't have much taste for blond females for example. Or those with curly hair. She must not wear much make up, preferable non at all and not colored hair. And she must really look like a girl (long hair, truly girly clothes etc. No one with camouflage pants thank you).And if I am to go further to enjoy her body she must have almost perfect tits. By judging from models and a bit porn stuff, very very few women has tits that looks good enough. Most of them are hardly eye catching at all.

 

[coriander1992]

Even if you are ugly, if you are confident and happy with yourself, people will be attracted to you.

That's how you get that "beautiful girl with ugly guy" thing, it's all about the confidence and self-image.

I personally value a good personality more than good looks in any person.

 

[SocialRetahd]

Funny how you get pissed at these guys for wanted someone more attractive when you yourself go on to say that these 'average guys' don't live up to your own standards.
:lol:

 

[Stressball]

Funny how you get pissed at these guys for wanted someone more attractive when you yourself go on to say that these 'average guys' don't live up to your own standards.
:lol:

We're all like that, aren't we? We judge people by their looks, at least on a subconcious level, at least she's being honest about it. I'm sure you've done the same thing, judging girls not living up to your own looks standard. I judge people by their looks harshly sometimes as well, but what can you do about it its human nature. =(

 

[Argamemnon]

You can still be in love with a girl only becouse of her appearance and while you disslike her personality more or less.

I could never fall in love with a beautiful girl who has a bad personality. Not at all. Maybe it's because I'm older than you, and have slightly more life experience. I wonder if your opinion remains the same ten years later.

 

[Scrabbl]

I agree with Edith

This is one of the few problems in life (like poverty) that we just can't solve. Of course it's not fair we (esp. men) judge people by appearance, but that's life. To deny it is to fool yourself

& Kien we have the same standards of beauty except for me, she doesn't have to look really girly (just don't be bald). And good ass > good tits. :wink:

 

[Day_Tripper]

Well, I know that guys don't sit around talking about how great their girlfriend's personality is, that's just how it is. But who says you're ugly other than yourself? Take a look at the picture thread, and look at all the attractive girls who also think they're ugly. Your opinion on yourself probably isn't reliable.

 

[Edith]

Funny how you get pissed at these guys for wanted someone more attractive when you yourself go on to say that these 'average guys' don't live up to your own standards.
:lol:

Argg... that's not what I meant. I'm describing them as average in that they seem to be a random slice of the male population... not in that they are average and not special, or even unattractive. (Reading my original post though, I can understand why it may be misinterpretted.)

I may be wrong here, but I think that looks may matter "more" to men than women. I say that with a lot of restarint, because I'm aware that women and men need to be attracted to their partner, but I think that maybe women have different criteria on assessing attractivness and attraction. Wouldnt you agree?

I'm trying to gain an understanding of how different this is, or in what way this is different... is it a gender thing? Is it entirely personal? I know that there will always be exceptions to every "norm"... but what is the norm here?

 

[IWouldPreferNotTo]

I may be wrong here, but I think that looks may matter "more" to men than women. I say that with a lot of restarint, because I'm aware that women and men need to be attracted to their partner, but I think that maybe women have different criteria on assessing attractivness and attraction. Wouldnt you agree?

Men value physical beauty more because we're the hunters, why would we 'hunt' for someone we're not physically attracted to? A great personally can do a lot, though, but looks is #1, unfortunately. Woman probably value social status and personality more because they are the ones being hunted so they can only take what they're given... unless they are aggressive, which most women aren't.

 

[Day_Tripper]

Funny how you get pissed at these guys for wanted someone more attractive when you yourself go on to say that these 'average guys' don't live up to your own standards.
:lol:

Argg... that's not what I meant. I'm describing them as average in that they seem to be a random slice of the male population... not in that they are average and not special, or even unattractive. (Reading my original post though, I can understand why it may be misinterpretted.)

I may be wrong here, but I think that looks may matter "more" to men than women.

Nope, you're not wrong at all. Ask anyone here. Like I said, you'll rarely ever hear us guys talking about their girlfriend's personality. Most of us guys here aren't bad looking, but we have trouble getting girlfriends because we don't have the right personality traits, like confidence and being outgoing. A shy girl will get approached by guys if she's good looking, but a shy guy will rarely get approached by a girl, unless he's like a male model, but that probably wouldn't even go anywhere. And it's been this way probably way before we were apes. Look at all the birds and four legged mammals that go through this stuff.

 

[Kien]

And good ass > good tits. :wink:

Woot! Butts doesn't have much shape if you get what I mean. But tits have lots of variation on their shape. You don't notice a butt as much as the tits on a girl do you? :? Heh I don't care if some has nice ass or not, but if I would have a girl and she turns out to not have very good looking tits, I would be very dissapointed. Butt does not matter to me though.

 

[coriander1992]

And good ass > good tits. :wink:

Woot! Butts doesn't have much shape if you get what I mean. But tits have lots of variation on their shape. You don't notice a butt as much as the tits on a girl do you? :? Heh I don't care if some has nice ass or not, but if I would have a girl and she turns out to not have very good looking tits, I would be very dissapointed. Butt does not matter to me though.

Would you reject a girl that was perfect in every other way if she didn't have "good looking tits"? :?

 

[Kien]

And good ass > good tits. :wink:

Woot! Butts doesn't have much shape if you get what I mean. But tits have lots of variation on their shape. You don't notice a butt as much as the tits on a girl do you? :? Heh I don't care if some has nice ass or not, but if I would have a girl and she turns out to not have very good looking tits, I would be very dissapointed. Butt does not matter to me though.

Would you reject a girl that was perfect in every other way if she didn't have "good looking tits"? :?

Nope but she should not look ugly. Ugly tits are rejecting, seriously. :/ I don't want to have to see ugly things whenever a girls shows herself.

 

[Day_Tripper]

And good ass > good tits. :wink:

Woot! Butts doesn't have much shape if you get what I mean. But tits have lots of variation on their shape. You don't notice a butt as much as the tits on a girl do you? :? Heh I don't care if some has nice ass or not, but if I would have a girl and she turns out to not have very good looking tits, I would be very dissapointed. Butt does not matter to me though.

Would you reject a girl that was perfect in every other way if she didn't have "good looking tits"? :?

Nope but she should not look ugly. Ugly tits are rejecting, seriously. :/ I don't want to have to see ugly things whenever a girls shows herself.

No matter how perfect they are when or if you ever meet her, they're it's not going to stay that way forever. Gravity will eventually screw everything up for you.