Anyone afraid of HELL?

[cLavain]

It's true, a lot of non believers do it as well, in fact most people do it in most discussions, which really annoyes me.
Sometimes they do it for the sake of "winning" the argument, like a boxeur striking under the belt when the referee doesn't see. At other times they are honest in their purpose, but either they are not very good at making their point, or what they are trying to demonstrate is almost impossible to demonstrate, and they end up using that technique.

Yes, it's very common. There are lots of logical fallacies being perpetrated in everyday discussions. I recommend "Bad Thoughts" by Jamie Whyte, for those who are interested. Frankly, this book should be a part of the curriculum in school.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/203-5027675-3315930

It deals with all sorts of flawed thinking like inconsistencies, empty words, personal attacks, etc... It really opened my eyes to how easily we are convinced by poor argumentation.

I like this part, which I find relevant to this debate:

You might try claiming that it is of the very nature of what you speak that it cannot be made comprehensible to mere men. Or point out that there is much that has not been explained by the narrow rationalist approach of science; seeing the truth requires intuitive insight.
Dressed in such pieties, your prejudice now looks rather grand. Grand enough, perhaps, that no one will notice that it remains wholly unsupported by evidence.

In other words, appeal to mysticism, and you will look wise! :lol:

 

[Remus]

There was NOTHING abusive or insulting that I wrote REMUS- Show it to Chilling_Echo and see what she says !!! Wow, others can curse at this thread for hating the topic but I didn't do anything like that !!!!!!!!!! PLEASE DON'T TAKE POSTS IN YOUR HANDS BEFORE YOU LET CHILLING_ECHO VIEW IT! I'm not stupid, I know what's done on purpose and what's an ACCIDENT :!: :!: :!: I SPENT a lot of time on that post and then you edit it when there was nothing WRONG w/ it !!! SEE IF YOU HAVE THE COURAGE TO TRY TO EDIT OR DELETE THIS ONE WITHOUT LETTING CHILLING_ECHO LOOK AT IT. SHE IS MUCH NICER AND REASONABLE ETC THAN YOU !

err it was a genuine mistake and I'm completly insulted by your reply

I just woke up and replied to the post and used the edit button by accident, if you look at your post you can see it was set out as a quote by me, I did apologise, infact I thought it important enough to reply to and did so.

can I have an apology now?

 

[Remus]

ok ok ill go now ill never return to this aggravating thread again

I think I'll join you lol

 

[shyandnumb]

I fear the tought of hell, because I'm not sure what will happen next if death leads down that road. With SA, I'm already living my own personal hell filled with doubts and shadows. So, it just leaves me curious to find out if hell is made out of brimstone and fire like it says in christianity.

 

[LA-girl]

Hi!
First of all I would just like to correct myself, when I once said that I believed that if you become a born-again Christian that your sins from birth until you die are automatically forgiven. But I have been convinced later on that although you become a Christian it is possible to loose your faith and your salvation. And that you need to repent your sins to God. I just wanted to make that clear...However I know that some might disagree in this.

As for works: I still believe that you are saved by grace, but good works will be a result of a right relationship with Jesus. If you are truly saved, you will have a change of heart through Jesus and you want to follow him and good works will be a result of your faith.

If I have been unclear about what it takes to be saved, I want to clarify that I still believe that: Jesus is the only way.

I just don't wish to mislead anyone and I am sorry if I have...

I fear the tought of hell, because I'm not sure what will happen next if death leads down that road. With SA, I'm already living my own personal hell filled with doubts and shadows. So, it just leaves me curious to find out if hell is made out of brimstone and fire like it says in christianity.

If you are curious about this, I found this web-site that could give you some answers:

www.helltruth.com

 

[Remus]

I don't know how that system works but does editing and quoting result in (permanent) deletion?? And how is it that 5% stayed and the other 95% of the points/opinions I had written were deleted??! Which is another question I'd like to hear a reply of !

quite simply

I thought I'd pressed the quote button, wanted to only reply to part of your long post, I deleted what I didnt want and left the short quote, then pressed submit, then abit later I though "hmmm where did that post go? Then realised the mistake I made, first time I've ever done it, another mod told me they had done it by accident and apologised to the person concerned (which I did with you)

if you scroll back you can see your original post looks like my quote, I added comments and quoted you.

It's that simple, there is no conspiracy, no deviousness, if I wanted to do that I could have a field day and consequently lose the position of moderator with the others voting to remove me.

We have discussed this on the moderators forum, they see it as a genuine mistake, so the matter is closed.

I also said I wont be moderating the religious threads anymore as moderators just get flak when we do and I'm sick of it.

I'm for freedom of speech but within the rule guidelines, they I'm afraid have been broken.

 

[B]

This is fun. This is probably my favorite thread. Something about fiery forum spats and people lacking life experience but philosophizing anyway really makes me feel warm inside.

 

[cLavain]

Thou Shalt Not Kill*

* Except heathens, people of other faiths, sinners and animals.

:wink:

 

[appletree]

haha, agreed horatio, is your name from hamlet per chance?

 

[shyandnumb]

Hell seems like a mysterious place where darkness and shadows live. Well, the word does give it that type of appearance. Yes, I am still afraid of the ideal of Hell. I know it is a childish fear and I had it when I was a christian. But, when I see the mental picture of Hell in my head, I can't stop feeling scared. However, telling myself that it isn't a real, physical place does help a little.

 

[Emma]

I don't think I would be scared of hell, what is there to fear about a fat little red man thing (Satan) with hoofs, who is probably wearing a leather G-string?

 

[shyandnumb]

I don't think I would be scared of hell, what is there to fear about a fat little red man thing (Satan) with hoofs, who is probably wearing a leather G-string?

:lol: I know what you mean, who would be afraid of a guy like that? The image of fat - bellied, thong satan is too silly to be frighten about hell. Maybe, it is ideal that a person will be punished for each and every bad action or word that they had said or did during their life in a painful manner is what creates the fear of hell. I am know I won't to go to hell to pay off every bad thing I did.

 

[gulshen10]

i strongly believe in God..i believe that there is a heaven where we can live happily..no stress,no trouble,no fight..we'll be living in wealth..we'll be having what we want immediately..how happy we'll be there..

 

[appletree]

nice reply horatio, like it.

"Yikes, I mean it's possible, right? Is it worth the risk to disbelieve it, when, if you believed it, you could be pardoned of divine destruction that God would visit upon you or Jesus as atonement sacrifice?"

so are you saying you would only believe in god through fear?
so essentially you are saying god is a bully?
meh, fits in quite well with the biblical depiction of god i suppose.
fortunatly my parents are agnostic so i was never in a position to be brainwashed in the first place.

-take care

 

[Mary]

"I asked God, "how much do you love me?" and He answered, "This much.." and stretched out his arms and died.

 

[daisuki]

"I asked God, "how much do you love me?" and He answered, "This much.." and stretched out his arms and died.

Exactly when did this happen?

edit after thinking about it :i got it now.

 

[thequirkster]

I've been brought up by devout Catholics, but faith never seemed to rub off onto me.

In my opinion, if God is all-loving and forgiving, then how could he send someone to eternal damnation? I mean, Hell, as I understand it, is ETERNAL suffering. There's no break, no rest. Agony for eternity.

Stubbing my toe bloody hurts, but it only lasts a couple of minutes. What about a day of toe-stubbing pain? Hard to conceive even that. But eternity?

In all my many flaws, I don't think I could possibly send anyone to eternal agony. I couldn't do it. No-one deserves it. So, if you follow me, how can an all-loving, all-forgiving God do it?

From my point of view, there is no crime that deserves an eternity of pain. I'm sure if someone murdered a family member I might feel different, but if you leave emotion out of it, the punishment does not fit the crime.

I do believe in Purgatory, where we are sent when we die to experience and learn from the pain we have inflicted on others. I believe the amount of time we spend there is a reflection of how we have lived our lives and our treatment of others. Of course, some of us will spend more time in Purgatory than others. For instance, those who perpetated the evil during the Holocaust should get comfortable because they'll be there a while.

But I don't believe in Hell. Your thoughts?

 

[LA-girl]

Hi 'thequirkster'!

In all my many flaws, I don't think I could possibly send anyone to eternal agony. I couldn't do it. No-one deserves it. So, if you follow me, how can an all-loving, all-forgiving God do it?

From my point of view, there is no crime that deserves an eternity of pain. But I don't believe in Hell. Your thoughts?

We have in fact discussed this topic recently in another thread and as I have repeatedly expressed my opinions regarding this issue in details at several occassions I will just offer a link to this thread.

I am a christian and I follow your reasoning in that an all loving God could simply not send all his dear children to suffer in constant agony for eternity and if you care to study the topic you will discover that this traditional view is not even supported in the Bible.

"The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23)

Here is the thread:
http://www.socialphobiaworld.com/posts11488-0.html

You can also check out this site:
www.helltruth.com

 

[thequirkster]

Cool, thanks for the link. It certainly makes for interesting reading.

I've never come across someone so hardcore fundamentalist. Oh well, I guess everyone needs something to believe in. As long as they're happy and not spreading fear among the weak-willed, that's all that matters.

 

[LA-girl]

Cool, thanks for the link. It certainly makes for interesting reading.

I've never come across someone so hardcore fundamentalist. Oh well, I guess everyone needs something to believe in. As long as they're happy and not spreading fear among the weak-willed, that's all that matters.

I guess the "fundie" tag was directed at me? Well, what can I say....I mean if God does exist it is only reasonable to think that he has made a way for us to find out the truth about important issues like the hell-issue for instance and we have a very good source namely the Bible. And here is the clue, as there seems to be so much confusion and disagreement even among christians how to interpret the Bible, the only safe way to go about it is to let the Bible interpret itself. If you do, you will come to very logical conclusions. And don't take my word for it, study it out for yourself and you will see.

What else to trust, the pope? Nah, I don't think so. If you look at the history of the catholic church and the majority of the popes, the word "trustwothy" is not exactly the first word that pops up.

So what's left, your own mind? You said you believed in purgatory, a theological doctrine that is first of all not supported in the Bible and second of all have recently been abolished (!!) by the catholic church (Yup, really strengthens their crediability there!), so obviously you follow only your own reasoning. It is all well and good, but there is no chance that anyone can find the universal truth by one persons reasoning, don't you agree?

If you care to find out more about why the Bible can be trusted I have a interesting booklet for you to read at one of my sites.
http://home.no.net/laagirl/Bible/indexbible.html

Just click on "Is the Bible true".
I will also recommend you to read:"Does God exist" and "Bible and archeology 1 and 2" underneith.

Good luck!