Anyone afraid of HELL?

Are you afraid of hell?

  • No. I am a Christian I know that God pardons me and will destroy only other people.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    19

Rainman

Well-known member
When we die we will cease to experience consciousness in the way we do now as we will no longer have flesh, or emotions or eyes or ears, so we will experience a very different state of consciousness. This makes it impossible to experience hell as we wont have the senses to experience suffering.

If you cannot experience; you cannot be conscious. You seem to be assuming that our physical senses is what causes us to experience suffering, when in fact, suffering is a state of mind and if the mind survives death, then it indeed is capable of experiencing suffering.

In absence of our physical senses, we must have some other form of senses, otherwise we could not experience and therefore we would not be conscious. We know these as psychic senses e.g., clairvoyance(eyes) and clairaudience(ears) These are suppose to be our spiritual or subtle senses and are not bound by space or time.

So, if the mind indeed has surivived death(which I believe it does) then it is capable of experiencing this spiritual reality, and one of those realities could indeed be what we know as hell.
 

lily

Well-known member
MrRightNow said:
If you are pretty sure you're going to hell would it be a smart idea to start kissing up to satan?

I don't think so, Satan suffers in hell so kissing up to Satan would only make you join him eternally.

socratic said:
Dude the bible was written in ancient mesopotamia nearly 3000 years ago. The people were very supersititious then and hell would be used as a means of control. If you dont do as we say, you go to hell for being bad and so on and so forth.
95% of our universe consists of electrical energy. Most of the atomic structure of our bodies consist of electrons, which stops us from melting into the floor and everything we touch. Electrical energy is never created or destroyed, its simply in transit. So when we die, what happens to the energy in our bodies?
You really shouldnt worry, though this doesnt mean you should go around doing bad things. We should do positive things just because its the right thing to do, not for a reward. And we should avoid doing bad things just because its not nice, not out of the fear of hell.

What others on the forum were pointing out actually was that those who claim we are only from the physical and that's it, then how did the physical happen? and ultimately in the first place, nowhere? That it exists with no creation? and does that make sense? but I won't be posting here anymore.

-to add, for anyone being afraid of hell and thinking God will destroy every wrong thing done, try not to worry about that, God doesn't expect us to be perfect and will likely look into our effort and intentions.
 

Mary

Well-known member
Zosima as I have told you many many times allready, I am not the least bit interested in having a debate, or argument w/you or w/anyone for that matter.
You asked me for scriptures and I gave them, you discount them, that is your perogative, only God can give you the answers that you seek, and as you yourself have admitted, you are not asking Him.
I have given my personal experience and said all I intend to say. It is pointless to argue, so I won't.
God is the only one who can touch your heart, not me. But I do care about you and would be more than happy to help you if I believed you to be sincere in wanting help but you have admitted that you don't, so all I can do now is just pray for you and other's.
I have pointed you in the right direction but I will not and cannot force you to go there. May God bless you & help you: Zosima and all of you.
I'm available if anybody ever needs to talk feel free to pm me.
 

shovelhead

Active member
Horatio said:
I do not fear hell, I know not if it is real but know that anything would be preferable to spending eternity in heaven surrounded by christians

LOL, thats good...

Its strange how differnent people react to the concept hell? some believe and feel secure, some beleive and stay scared. Also many when they are first hear this blackmail (believe or be punished) approach of xtians who tell you to believe to save yourself, actually turn against religion in all forms based on this.. It had that effect on me, I was a believing Jew, but at a xtian school and they had born agains tell us about hell etc, and I turned against all religion and became an atheist for a long time. I guess as a child I thought there couldn't be a g-d if such horrible concepts would be allowed to be tought in g-ds name...

So to go a little more off track here, but I find it kind of strange that I have heard xtians say that the old testament was fire and brimstone, kinda angry g-d and then new testiment was love and forgiveness (through jesus).. however when it comes to the afterlife it was somewhat the opposite actually... Under the new testiment if you do not 'accept' jesus you are punished for all eternity no matter how good a person you were.. Yet Jews believe you do not have to believe in g-d to not be punished, a good person is a good person... In fact even bad people aren't thought to be punished in the after, though they are shown what pain their evil caused and 'shown the truth' but they are not thought to be needlessly punished without any chance of forgiveness...

To the original poster if you are worried about hell, maybe research it and see that it come not from the old testiment (jews) even though you are told jesus came to save you from it (something that before and at his time wasn't thought to exist anyway, well only by pagans), it come more from external influences on early xtians, Germanic paganism and the greeks (hades)...
 

Lavinia84

Well-known member
Hello everyone, my appologies for comming into this so late.

First things first:
LA-girl.

You stated that Good Theif belived Jesus was the son of God and that by his death he redeemed our sins.

So, I looked it up. The Good Theif is only found in Lukes Gospel.

Luke 23:39-42 (World English Bible)

[39]One of the criminals who was hanged insulted him, saying, "If you are the Christ, save yourself and us!" [40] But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Don't you even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? [41] And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong." [42] He said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

Now, as far as I can tell the condemned man believes:

a) Jesus is innocent
b) Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and his kingdom is in the next world

Where does he say Jesus is the Son of God or that Jesus' blood sacrifice redeems him?

You also defined what one must believe in order to be a Christian, so I ask what would one be if one believed:

That Jesus was a prophet?
That Jesus' purpose was to bring a message and that it is his message which redeems, his death being a consequence of the message, and not the redeeming act at all?

Now Mary:

You stated that God wrote the Bible. Men wrote the bible, common, everyday men. Many different men over many years. It is possible to accept the idea that they were divinely isnpired, but it is illogical to accept that many of the teachings in the Bible are divinely ordained.

You think no one became Christian because they were forced? Where have you been? Do you think the people native to the Americas, southern Africa and Australia became Christian because they thought it was the true religion, or because someone threatened to kill them or wouldn't feed them unless they did? Just beacuse conqueres called themselves Christians doesn't mean they acted the way they should have.

Jinxed, you think there are only 2 English Bibles? The KVJ and the NIV. You need to take yourself over to Amazon.com and have a browse. There are many many different versions. You seem to think all the others cut or add things. Many are just different translations, either by style of choice of interpretation. I'm sincerely hoping everyone here knows the only surviving texts of the Bible are in Greek. The KJV was translated in the 17th Century. Don't people think we may have learnt more about the correct meanings of Greek words since then? The NIV is not bad, but I suggest from my own experience at translating the Bible from Greek is ht the best available translation is the World English Bible, which is a direct, not dynamic translation. It is not published yet as far as I know but can be found at:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bi...56;query=chapter=#38;layout=;loc=Genesis 18.1
 

Rainman

Well-known member
The mind and the soul are separate entities that are part of the psyche. The mind is to the brain as words are to the mouth. The problem that people have now is that they associate the mind, the ego, as themselves. When we are born we have no ego. Our mind is pure. We haven’t developed a sense of discrimination, irrational fears, envy etc. The best example I know of the creation of the ego is, when you are born, your parents give you a name and this is the beginning of the ego. The name is like a basket and all of the experiences we go through in life are like objects placed into that basket and when we are asked we will swear we are that basket and all of its contents. People will associate themselves with those contents, likes and dislikes, prejudice and desires, moulded by their life experiences, I am a footballer, I am an intellectual, I am English, American etc…they will buy a car and say that car is who they are, they will associate themselves with the clothes they wear, you are what you wear and all that. This is ludicrous, we are not our ego. You’d find it hard to explain to someone that you are the things that have happened to you in your life so far.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. However, you seem to be operating on this supposition that the soul is released at death and no longer has an ego.

As long as the soul exists as an individual, it will have an ego. It is indeed the mind that creates the egos, because it discriminates. At death, the soul only loses the body, but not the mind. The mind and body are not the same.

As long as there is mind, the soul will continue to exist, and as long as it exists, it is capable of experiencing reality. As the mind is dependent on the impressions formed in our lives, whatever impressions have been formed before we die, will continue on with us.

Just like say a hardrive on a computer. That same hardrive can be transferred to another computer, and it would retain all or some of the information. The human body is similar to a biological computer, and the soul is it's hardrive, and the mind it's operating system, the brain it's microprocessor, the sense organs it's peripherals and consciousness the energy that runs the system.

The soul is energy

They cannot be synonymous. There is not just a single form of energy, there are many; atomic, electrical, magnetic, kinetic, nuclear, gravitational, chemical, electromagnetic etc and while they ultimately may all be modulations of the same unified energy field, they are still only physical sources of energy and differ from one another. The soul is not a physical energy, it is a spiritual energy, that we could call consciousness/awareness.

I haven’t heard of anything else it can be and I can’t imagine it to be anything else. I’m sure any physicist would agree with me in that energy cannot experience suffering, as it doesn’t have the capability to do so.

Yeah, you cannot cause energy to suffer. You can only cause what is conscious to suffer, because it has the ability to experience.






To answer the OP's concerns. While, a lot of this debate has gone off track and is discussing the philosophy of hell. I think nonetheless it should helpful to you. You first need to work with some definitions of what hell is and how you could get there and how you could prevent going there.

1. If you believe hell is this spiritual realm, presided by Satan, where God sends the sinners upon his final judgement to perish for eternity. Then you should live your life according to the precepts of your religion and prevent yourself from going there.

2. If you belive hell is this state of mind, where you send yourself by your own judgement, then you should live your life, according to what makes you feel content and fulfilled, so that when it comes time to reflect on your life, you are content. If you leave this world with a smile on your face and no regrets, then you cannot go to hell.


If it is the former, then become a devout religious person and live your according to it. This is probably not very helpful for somebody who already has anxiety problems. A lot of religious people, particularly Christians often seem to be worrying about whether they're sinning or not and live in fear of god's judgement. It's very disempowering.

Ask yourself, what kind of god are you praying too, if not worshipping him will mean eternal damnation. If you feel anger/lust, so what, you're a human being and we all experience them. It is just not healthy to live in fear of what happens after death. Live your life as best you can, be a moral and decent human being and leave the rest to fate.

If it is the latter, then you have a lot more freedom and choice. You do not have to live under the dictates of anybody else, you have full control of your own life and your own conscience is your judge. You are not limited by any religious dogma, you are free to explore all your possibilities. Just be honest with yourself, and follow your heart, so that when it is time to go, you have no regrets or incomplete desires. Live life to the full, and you will never have to worry about hell again.
 

LA-girl

Well-known member
Lavinia84:

You will find my reply to your questions directed to me on the topic: Christian people.
 

Quixote

Well-known member
Reholla said:
easy said:
Dude, seriously. Open a book on Biology book and be enlightened. The reason you are like you are IS EVOLUTION. Even the church accepted evolution as true for Gods sake (lol).

Did you go to school? Serious question.

Hmm....last time i checked insulting some ones intelligence doesnt usually work in favor of winning an argument. To answer your "serious" question, I graduated from a top high school with honors, and am now attending university.

.........................................................................

You still didnt answer my question on how if we just came from unicellular oganismshow our complex brain functions, heart beats 24 hours a day, everyday, etc. If youre going by the big bang theory this is a farther leap of faith to take than to believe in God.

It is funny that you complain about being insulted but you only chose to reply to what you find to be and insulting message, while you completely ignored my reply to your post, where I even attempted to answer the intriguing question you posed about complexity (page 4), without ever attacking you at all. You probably didn't even take the trouble of reading it, too long and boring wasn't it?

This proves how superficial and maybe slightly offensive messages are actually much more effective when it comes to catching people's attention. (nothing new, I know, just wanted to point it out)
 

lily

Well-known member
Just to reply...

Lavinia84 said:
Jinxed, you think there are only 2 English Bibles? The KVJ and the NIV. You need to take yourself over to Amazon.com and have a browse. There are many many different versions. You seem to think all the others cut or add things. Many are just different translations, either by style of choice of interpretation. I'm sincerely hoping everyone here knows the only surviving texts of the Bible are in Greek. The KJV was translated in the 17th Century. Don't people think we may have learnt more about the correct meanings of Greek words since then? The NIV is not bad, but I suggest from my own experience at translating the Bible from Greek is ht the best available translation is the World English Bible, which is a direct, not dynamic translation. It is not published yet as far as I know but can be found at:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bi...56;query=chapter=#38;layout=;loc=Genesis 18.1

I said 'that I know of' there's only two, in case you thought I was sure, however thanks for telling me. What I meant by others cutting things from the bible is, I was told and the name is Mormans or s.th. like that, have later, cut out parts of the original text, the way it was 'originally'. And about adding things, on the last paragraph it gave a warning on anyone who cuts, add or does anything else to the original true bible will pay.

shovelhead said:
Horatio said:
I do not fear hell, I know not if it is real but know that anything would be preferable to spending eternity in heaven surrounded by christians

I don't mind Christians- the true ones, or even the ones that don't know they're doing it wrong and trying but have good intentions and the ones that want to be one even though they have difficulties etc. I don't see why out of anything being surrounded by Christians in heaven is terrible.

I also admire Christians actually, and even if they try to convince others, it's their intentions that count, it's out of what they believe in and everyone who talks about their opinion has the purpose of convincing others in a way so as long as they don't force it on us then I'm ok if they would like to tell me everything I could be lacking until they leave me to decide on my own.

cutefluffykitten said:
you know what puts me off attending church etc.........
its when people start to quote scripture as a way of trying to score points and try and prove something....
if u r gona quote scripture dont use it to win an argument, its offesive to God
I read but i cant quote scripture like i have it embedded into my memory
i read and feel Gods word in my heart and it inspires me and testifies to me his truth...
when someone quotes it to win a argument....i dont hear God talking...just some holier than now hypocrite :oops:
im sure i will get mobbed and attacked with bibles pretty soon after posting this 8O :lol: [/b]

I think usually others quote scriptures it's when they feel that a person is doing it wrong and might not know what's there so they correct it to get it clear.


Zosima, I decided I will transfer your quote to the thread called Christians. I was avoiding to post here.
 

jt

Active member
i wish i could believe that! I have fallen from god and need to get back to him. I only wish I was afraid of hell as u!
 

shovelhead

Active member
jinxed said:
What I meant by others cutting things from the bible is, I was told before and know others, the name is Mormans or s.th. like that, have, later, cut things off the 'original' bible, the way it was 'originally'. And about adding things, I meant on the last paragraph of the bible it gave the warning that anyone who cuts, add or does anything else to the original true bible will pay.

So are they allowed to change the old testiment too?? as all xtians have done that, there is some major deviations made in the Torah's translation into what is called the old testiment.. I actually spoke to an ex-anglican priest (or was it pastor I admit I don't know the exact name they call themselves).. He got the urge to learn hebrew and read the torah and talmud as they have been written for thousands of years (there is still only ONE version in hebrew)... He is now an atheist, he was just too shocked at the imaginitive translations made so it fits the new testiment and motives of the church... Kind of sad actually he felt extremely betrayed, not by g-d but by the church, but it raised such doubt in him it destroyed his belief and changed his life... very sad story really...
 

lily

Well-known member
shovelhead said:
jinxed said:
What I meant by others cutting things from the bible is, I was told before and know others, the name is Mormans or s.th. like that, have, later, cut things off the 'original' bible, the way it was 'originally'. And about adding things, I meant on the last paragraph of the bible it gave the warning that anyone who cuts, add or does anything else to the original true bible will pay.

So are they allowed to change the old testiment too?? as all xtians have done that, there is some major deviations made in the Torah's translation into what is called the old testiment.. I actually spoke to an ex-anglican priest (or was it pastor I admit I don't know the exact name they call themselves).. He got the urge to learn hebrew and read the torah and talmud as they have been written for thousands of years (there is still only ONE version in hebrew)... He is now an atheist, he was just too shocked at the imaginitive translations made so it fits the new testiment and motives of the church... Kind of sad actually he felt extremely betrayed, not by g-d but by the church, but it raised such doubt in him it destroyed his belief and changed his life... very sad story really...

Just to reply, no I guess translating from language to language doesn't count as that's not adding or cutting the content out of the original bible (old and new testament).
I didn't know all Christians have done that to the text unless it's only translating it into a different language but you cannot warp the interpretation.
 

shovelhead

Active member
There are lot of passages that were changed in meaning through the translation.. Chinese whispers some intentional some maybe not... there are lot of examples.. here is one famous one..

According to Christian mythology, jesus had been the product of a virgin birth. The prediction that the savior would be of virgin birth can not be found in the torah but could only be found in the Septuagint (the early greek translation):

"'Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel' which means, 'God is with us.'"
(Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23)

The greek translators interpreted the word almah as "virgin" in this passage, it actually means "a young woman". The word which meant "a virgin", was actually besulah. Yet 'vrigin' birth has become an important point for many churches, yet its so called 'prediction' was the result of an incorrect translation...
 

lily

Well-known member
shovelhead said:
There are lot of passages that were changed in meaning through the translation.. Chinese whispers some intentional some maybe not... there are lot of examples.. here is one famous one..

According to Christian mythology, jesus had been the product of a virgin birth. The prediction that the savior would be of virgin birth can not be found in the torah but could only be found in the Septuagint (the early greek translation):

"'Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel' which means, 'God is with us.'"
(Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23)

The greek translators interpreted the word almah as "virgin" in this passage, it actually means "a young woman". The word which meant "a virgin", was actually besulah. Yet 'vrigin' birth has become an important point for many churches, yet its so called 'prediction' was the result of an incorrect translation...

That is very unfortunate! It definitely can screw the whole bible up!! Maybe in the NIV, what is written and how it's interpreted has a completely new different perspective and isn't that way?! which is why it's good to look into the original and compare it ourselves. The more it's interpreted in one translation to another by others who are imperfect, it can be lead off.
 
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