aliens

[Banvard]

I agree with Emily G. The number of things needed to come together in a particular way for life is enormous. If ice were not the only element lighter as a solid than as a liquid, life would be impossible (also the Titanic would not have sunk). If there were slightly more oxygen in the air, then every fire would turn into a raging inferno. If slightly less, fire could not exist. If there were no gravity, everything would float off into space, but if it were more powerful then everything would be crushed. If the large planets were not in the outer solar system they would not deflect or absorb comets etc and the Earth would be struck more often. The list is endless.

Well, the universe is enormous, and enormous enough to hold plenty of life - if not in the way we understand it. Do you know similar Earth-like planets may have been found? I'm sure David Burke posted a link about it on here. Do you think the first explorers to land on a new continent didn't expect to find trees, flowers or animals? Where there is one, there could be another.

Not surprised that you agree with Emily, because you said in a similar thread,

“God absolutely does exist, by the way.”

Again, if God isn’t living it up on planet Earth, he’s not on the planet, he’s alien, even if you think God created man in his image, he’s still alien because he ain’t human, and wasn’t born here. So again, you prove your own God is less likely. Sometimes I wonder if there is intelligent life on this planet, jeez.

 

[userremoved]

I don't understand why no one can theorize the possibility of a creator and sentient life in other worlds. I don't quite understand why it has either one way or the other. It seems like both sides of the argument are making some pretty big assumptions considering the fact that most of us haven't even left our states never mind this planet.

 

[mrb]

well blimey isnt this a popular thread ::

 

[userremoved]

well blimey isnt this a popular thread ::

Yeah I usually try to avoid discussions on this kind of stuff cause I know that people are gonna get heated over it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though, so taking rep points is just ridiculous lol.

 

[dzerklis]

we can think what we like, but what do we really know. like there might be other dimensions where universe is overpopulated. all we really know is that aliens have visited earth numerous times and done some crazy things, like abduct maria and artificially inseminate her with a half alien jesus baby

 

[mrb]

YouTube - Journey through the Virgo supercluster

now that was great banvard and the music that goes along with it , you really get drawn into it ... nice one ..

 

[hippiechild]

Sir. Banvard! I totally agree with you on the cat-bowling theory. It appears that these avid, bowling aliens used our little blue planet as a scoreboard!

Not surprised that you agree with Emily, because you said in a similar thread,

“God absolutely does exist, by the way.”

Again, if God isn’t living it up on planet Earth, he’s not on the planet, he’s alien, even if you think God created man in his image, he’s still alien because he ain’t human, and wasn’t born here. So again, you prove your own God is less likely. Sometimes I wonder if there is intelligent life on this planet, jeez.

Well, since God isn't really alive: doesn't metabolize, grow, adapt or die, except in the most metaphorical senses, he cannot be an alien life form... maybe an alien concept, but that is entirely different. To say that God somehow proves the existence of life somewhere else in the universe is like saying, but on a much grander scale, that the force of gravity proves the existence of aliens, seeing as it wasn't born here and, well, certainly ain't human. Both God and Gravity are omnipresent constants...one being omnipotent as well.

That is.. unless you think that God might just be our shoddy interpretation of run-ins with extraterrestrial life, which is also way cool

YouTube - Carl Sagan - 'A Glorious Dawn' ft Stephen Hawking (Cosmos Remixed)

YouTube - Symphony of Science - 'The Unbroken Thread' (ft. Attenborough, Goodall, Sagan)

These are freaking incredible.... "those.. are some of the things that molecules do! Given four billion years of evolution" ... truly the most epic thing ever

I almost cried with joy to be a part of this intricate and beautiful world with the rest of you... these musical reminders made toasting my bread, walking down the sidewalk and communicating with other humans, among everything else, impossibly fascinating and engaging.

 

[hippiechild]

For the record, I do believe that extraterrestrial life is likely

 

[Banvard]

Sir. Banvard! I totally agree with you on the cat-bowling theory. It appears that these avid, bowling aliens used our little blue planet as a scoreboard!




Well, since God isn't really alive: doesn't metabolize, grow, adapt or die, except in the most metaphorical senses, he cannot be an alien life form... maybe an alien concept, but that is entirely different. To say that God somehow proves the existence of life somewhere else in the universe is like saying, but on a much grander scale, that the force of gravity proves the existence of aliens, seeing as it wasn't born here and, well, certainly ain't human. Both God and Gravity are omnipresent constants...one being omnipotent as well.

That is.. unless you think that God might just be our shoddy interpretation of run-ins with extraterrestrial life, which is also way cool



These are freaking incredible.... "those.. are some of the things that molecules do! Given four billion years of evolution" ... truly the most epic thing ever

I almost cried with joy to be a part of this intricate and beautiful world with the rest of you... these musical reminders made toasting my bread, walking down the sidewalk and communicating with other humans, among everything else, impossibly fascinating and engaging.

I was just pointing out how these religious folk contradict themselves. I was just surmising what a universe would be like from their point of view. I don’t believe in a God that created the universe, but there could be aliens that appear to have god-like powers, that we would interpret as magic, but really be founded in science. If we travelled back to the Stone Age, to show the inhabitants our technology, they would call us gods, but we would know we are not. If God isn’t alive, then it’s case closed, because it’s an untouchable argument - how do you disprove something that isn’t real? At least give some tangible evidence - we have a good idea how the universe works, and what is probable. Gravity is based on fact and God is based on faith - really bad comparison. God is only a Earth bound idea. Yeah, you can't see gravity, like you can't seen love. But you can feel the force of gravity and know it ain't God related, but love is also explained through science, just like the idea of God.

Glad you liked the vids.

 

[mimi1988]

This thread is 10 pages long? Wow!
I never gave much thought about 'aliens'. It's just silly to me. I guess it depends on your idea of an alien. Do I belive there may be some other species living on another planet? Maybe. Do I believe they look like ET? NOOO! Lol.

 

[userremoved]

I was just pointing out how these religious folk contradict themselves. I was just surmising what a universe would be like from their point of view. I don’t believe in a God that created the universe, but there could be aliens that appear to have god-like powers, that we would interpret as magic, but really be founded in science. If we travelled back to the Stone Age, to show the inhabitants our technology, they would call us gods, but we would know we are not. If God isn’t alive, then it’s case closed, because it’s an untouchable argument - how do you disprove something that isn’t real? At least give some tangible evidence - we have a good idea how the universe works, and what is probable. Gravity is based on fact and God is based on faith - really bad comparison.

Glad you liked the vids.

I understand that you have a problem with the world's religious systems, but how can you completely rule out the possibility of some kind of intelligent force behind the origin of reality itself? We do have a pretty good understanding of how the universe works but not a complete understanding. I'm not trying to defend any type of faith because I'm not really part of one either but I just want to know why you're so sure about how things work. I'm just asking because I want to know myself.

 

[LadyWench]

You’re welcome – I’ve been listening to the MP3’s on my iphone non-stop, I think they are great. I’m planning on buying the ‘Cosmos’ DVD’s at some point as well, because I like how Carl Sagan talks about the universe - you can see in his eyes that he finds the universe beautiful without a divine hand needed. I’m really starting to get back into Astronomy; had childhood ambition to be an Astronomer.

Check out their website Symphony of Science they have two other videos.

I wanted to be an astronomer when I was a kid, too. I still do, actually. I have a telescope. Sadly, I know it's completely far-fetched and impossible. There's no way I could ever do the math involved. But yes, I like how Carl Sagan talks about the universe, too. There is just something about him...

And thanks, I will check out that site!

 

[Banvard]

I understand that you have a problem with the world's religious systems, but how can you completely rule out the possibility of some kind of intelligent force behind the origin of reality itself? We do have a pretty good understanding of how the universe works but not a complete understanding. I'm not trying to defend any type of faith because I'm not really part of one either but I just want to know why you're so sure about how things work. I'm just asking because I want to know myself.

I talked about why I don’t believe, in great detail in other threads – just sorry I brought it up in this one. I class intelligence outside of Earth, alien - simple. For there to be greater intelligence, it would have had to have been created by another intelligence, and so on. Which would reach infinity, so there would be no creator of the universe, only creators, and those creators would not be special, because there would be an abundance of them. ::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E

 

[userremoved]

I talked about why I don’t believe in great detail in other threads – just sorry I brought it up in this one. I class intelligence outside of Earth, alien - simple. For there to be greater intelligence, it would have had to have been created by another intelligence, and so on. Which would reach infinity, so there would be no creator of the universe, only creators, and those creators would not be special, because there would be an abundance of them. ::

No problem, I just like to understand where people are coming from. That alone can solve most of the contentions that people of different world views would have. But yeah that does make sense.

 

[Banvard]

No problem, I just like to understand where people are coming from. That alone can solve most of the contentions that people of different world views would have. But yeah that does make sense.

Sorry if I come across as rude, it's just the way I was raised - I was a tyrant in religious education at school, I even got a bad report from a teacher saying I didn't respect people’s views. They made me say the Lord's Prayer, it makes me so mad to think about.

 

[hippiechild]

Well.. I was assuming that God existed since you also assumed that in your hypothetical proof of aliens from a religious perspective. From that point of view (point of view where God exists), both gravity and God are similar enough in that neither can be assigned to any particular part of the universe, nor be defined as life... they would just be abstract concepts that affect our lives. Whether you arrive at the concept through experimentation, seizures in parts of the brain, faith, fear or hallucinogenic substances, they are similar in that they can be thought about as non-living forces.

I just mean that God might not be any more useful to think about as an alien being than gravity would be. God isn't any less real (we're assuming that he's real for now) because he isn't living. I'm sure you know of many non-living, but highly influential things... he's a force that molds our world (yes, based on the temporary assumption that he is real) and influences our lives, very, very similarly to any other force of nature.

Okay, God glasses off! So yeah, it's either "case closed" and God doesn't exist because, well, I'm sure you have thought about that plenty and have many ideas or... he is an omnipotent abstraction (thought of as a force for simplicity) that cannot be considered to be life.

Soo, basically I agree with you about contradiction, but not that belief in God requires belief in extraterrestrials as well. You would think that faith in something like God would prime you for belief in aliens too... but apparently not


haha, I wrote that in a really roundabout way...
basically, gravity has its origin in fact, God comes from faith... but if you're going to think about either one, they operate similarly. Neither is alive; aren't born, dying, eating, surviving, reproducing, etc; both are invisible forces, of which we only see the aftermath; they affect us and mold our world, physically and mentally.

man, the best way to explain it involves mail ordering multiple tabs of blotter paper... I'm totally game if you're game!

I class intelligence outside of Earth, alien - simple.

edit*
AH HA! That's the key... if aliens don't have to be living, it works. I guess there could be some kind of semantics war on whether God is actually Alien since he's omnipresent and everywhere, which would make him just as much terrestrial as extra terrestrial (yes, I know, that percentage of him existing on Earth compared with the rest of the universe would be imbalanced)

Coolio

also, I'm not sure if God could be considered to be intelligent (and I don't meant that he's "dumb"). Just that he wouldn't use information in the normal sense... he would know everything and be everything... whatevers haha

 

[davidburke]

I wanted to be an astronomer when I was a kid, too. I still do, actually. I have a telescope. Sadly, I know it's completely far-fetched and impossible. There's no way I could ever do the math involved. But yes, I like how Carl Sagan talks about the universe, too. There is just something about him...

And thanks, I will check out that site!

never say impossible! i find math extremely different i struggle at it but i'm doing physics and astronomy in college cause i love it so much so i am determined to do it and i hope to be an astronomer some day or working for a space agency

 

[Banvard]

Well.. I was assuming that God existed since you also assumed that in your hypothetical proof of aliens from a religious perspective. From that point of view (point of view where God exists), both gravity and God are similar enough in that neither can be assigned to any particular part of the universe, nor be defined as life... they would just be abstract concepts that affect our lives. Whether you arrive at the concept through experimentation, seizures in parts of the brain, faith, fear or hallucinogenic substances, they are similar in that they can be thought about as non-living forces.

I just mean that God might not be any more useful to think about as an alien being than gravity would be. God isn't any less real (we're assuming that he's real for now) because he isn't living. I'm sure you know of many non-living, but highly influential things... he's a force that molds our world (yes, based on the temporary assumption that he is real) and influences our lives, very, very similarly to any other force of nature.

Okay, God glasses off! So yeah, it's either "case closed" and God doesn't exist because, well, I'm sure you have thought about that plenty and have many ideas or... he is an omnipotent abstraction (thought of as a force for simplicity) that cannot be considered to be life.

Soo, basically I agree with you about contradiction, but not that belief in God requires belief in extraterrestrials as well. You would think that faith in something like God would prime you for belief in aliens too... but apparently not


haha, I wrote that in a really roundabout way...
basically, gravity has its origin in fact, God comes from faith... but if you're going to think about either one, they operate similarly. Neither is alive; aren't born, dying, eating, surviving, reproducing, etc; both are invisible forces, of which we only see the aftermath; they affect us and mold our world, physically and mentally.

man, the best way to explain it involves mail ordering multiple tabs of blotter paper... I'm totally game if you're game!



edit*
AH HA! That's the key... if aliens don't have to be living, it works. I guess there could be some kind of semantics war on whether God is actually Alien since he's omnipresent and everywhere, which would make him just as much terrestrial as extra terrestrial (yes, I know, that percentage of him existing on Earth compared with the rest of the universe would be imbalanced)

Coolio

also, I'm not sure if God could be considered to be intelligent (and I don't meant that he's "dumb"). Just that he wouldn't use information in the normal sense... he would know everything and be everything... whatevers haha

I knew I should have taken philosophy, this is like an argument about the colour red - as a concept to precept - this will give me a headache, but I’m willing to totally make this ten times more complicated. ::

Gravity is created by the rotation of the Earth. The dense sun, which is so heavy, affects the orbits of the planets in the solar system, by creating a small hollow in space, hence why the planets move around the sun – so simple, it shouldn’t be bogged now in nonrepresentational ideas. God is not a force in the universe - but only if you count the actions from those that believe - say churches for instance, people built the structure with the idea of God, that is the only force God truly has, the idea moved.

To gain intelligence, one has to have a brain, to conceive any ideas, one has to have a brain, and the scripture says he created man in his own image. Therefore, he must have two arms, two legs, two eyes, and a big massive brain. Do we have an image of gravity? It’s more real than God is, and what image of God do we have? If we are talking about something different, then we really cannot place what God is in this other universe.

As I said before – the idea of God is infinity. One can assume someone created the universe, like a piece of art, but someone painted the painter. It’s like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg? We both know it’s a trick question, and doesn’t have substance in real fact - but is used to thwart sensible argument. Logic and reason is the way to go, and overanalyzing just creates confusion.

Added - If it knew everything, where the hell did it learn it from, maybe its God? You can read that both ways lol