Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-16-2011
Sinar_Matahari's Avatar
Elite User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,608
Thanked 0 Times
Sinar_Matahari Sinar_Matahari is offline
Elite User
Sinar_Matahari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,608
Thanked 0 Times
Is this member (OP) around anymore?
__________________
"He dare not come in company for fear he should be misused, disgraced, overshoot himself in gesture or speech or be sick; he thinks every man observes him." Hippocrates

I have retained my Jedi powers!!!
Sinar_Matahari is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
hoddesdon's Avatar
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 2,613
Thanked 19 Times
hoddesdon hoddesdon is offline
Elite User
hoddesdon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 2,613
Thanked 19 Times
It is unproductive to debate the 99% figure (see spaceboy135's post on page 4). In any case it may well be being used metaphorically to mean a very high percentage e.g. "driving off a cliff is unwise 99% of the time".

If the OP is not around anymore that suggests that what he is saying works.
__________________
vegetables of the world unite - you have nothing to lose but dousing with salad dressing
hoddesdon is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
Newbie User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wales, U.K
Posts: 96
Thanked 0 Times
Chriiss Chriiss is offline
Newbie User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wales, U.K
Posts: 96
Thanked 0 Times
All the things Shield wrote are what I do. I set unrealistic targets in my head all the time. One thing I make sure is to always finish my meals that was something I never used to do. But yee BABY STEPS!
Chriiss is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
Sinar_Matahari's Avatar
Elite User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,608
Thanked 0 Times
Sinar_Matahari Sinar_Matahari is offline
Elite User
Sinar_Matahari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,608
Thanked 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoddesdon View Post
It is unproductive to debate the 99% figure (see spaceboy135's post on page 4). In any case it may well be being used metaphorically to mean a very high percentage e.g. "driving off a cliff is unwise 99% of the time".

If the OP is not around anymore that suggests that what he is saying works.
Some people see percentage figures and think in literal terms while others see them and think in metaphorical terms. I personally don't (or try not to)throw percentage figures around unless I can back them up, unless I am pretty sure they are accurate. Be that 99% or 1%.
__________________
"He dare not come in company for fear he should be misused, disgraced, overshoot himself in gesture or speech or be sick; he thinks every man observes him." Hippocrates

I have retained my Jedi powers!!!
Sinar_Matahari is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
Lea Lea is offline
Banned
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,453
Thanked 0 Times
Lea Lea is offline
Banned
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,453
Thanked 0 Times
I remember this thread, it was around when I joined the forum. It annoys me that people who don't have a clue what this disability really means try to offer some smart *** cures. If only it was that easy! Maybe it is, but what OP suggests works only for people who are mildly anxious. The greatest misunderstanding of this forum is, that mild anxiety and autism-like symptoms are thrown into the same bag and labelled as SA. Then those who only had some mild anxiety and overcame it think that everyone can do it and who can't, is lazy or a coward.. Those advices are not bad generally, but out of the place here. If you're born socially retarded, there is nothing you can do with it. Wanting to cure it with those advices is like wanting to cure cancer with aspirin.
Lea is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
Sinar_Matahari's Avatar
Elite User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,608
Thanked 0 Times
Sinar_Matahari Sinar_Matahari is offline
Elite User
Sinar_Matahari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,608
Thanked 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lea View Post
I remember this thread, it was around when I joined the forum. It annoys me that people who don't have a clue what this disability really means try to offer some smart *** cures. If only it was that easy! Maybe it is, but what OP suggests works only for people who are mildly anxious. The greatest misunderstanding of this forum is, that mild anxiety and autism-like symptoms are thrown into the same bag and labelled as SA. Then those who only had some mild anxiety and overcame it think that everyone can do it and who can't, is lazy or a coward.. Those advices are not bad generally, but out of the place here. If you're born socially retarded, there is nothing you can do with it. Wanting to cure it with those advices is like wanting to cure cancer with aspirin.
Advice on it's own is nothing. It's not a cure, but is whatever you make of it. If anyone wants to get better, they have to put in a lot of work. Of course it's not going to be easy. What would effort be worth if things were easy. I don't recall the OP claiming that overcoming SA is a simple matter in the first place. If you are accusing the OP of not understanding what SA is about, this is not fair. Especially because he is not here to defend himself.

Unfortunately, the OP's advice may not benefit people with autism, but autism and SAD are not the same thing. As far as I understand, the OP only addressed social anxiety.

I can understand that this sort of advice frustrates you, but it might be helpful to keep and open mind and consider the message the OP is trying to convey. I don't believe he was trying to offend anyone or accuse anyone of cowardice.
__________________
"He dare not come in company for fear he should be misused, disgraced, overshoot himself in gesture or speech or be sick; he thinks every man observes him." Hippocrates

I have retained my Jedi powers!!!
Sinar_Matahari is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
hoddesdon's Avatar
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 2,613
Thanked 19 Times
hoddesdon hoddesdon is offline
Elite User
hoddesdon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 2,613
Thanked 19 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lea View Post
I remember this thread, it was around when I joined the forum. It annoys me that people who don't have a clue what this disability really means try to offer some smart *** cures. ........ If only it was that easy! Wanting to cure it with those advices is like wanting to cure cancer with aspirin.
What shield is saying is that he himself has used the advices successfully. So it is not like trying to cure cancer with aspirin.

It is not as intractable as you suggest - that is something else shield is saying. I absolutely understand the perception that it is. However much it seems to be - that is a barrier in itself - it is not intractable.

The source of the feeling that it is intractable comes from the mind - the source of the problem itself. That is obviously unsatisfactory; like a defendant also filling the role of the judge. The judgement is unreliable.

After all, what does it consist of? Adverse reactions within yourself -
there is no law of nature like gravity in play here. Logically, that can be remedied.
__________________
vegetables of the world unite - you have nothing to lose but dousing with salad dressing
hoddesdon is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
Lea Lea is offline
Banned
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,453
Thanked 0 Times
Lea Lea is offline
Banned
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,453
Thanked 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinar_Matahari View Post
Unfortunately, the OP's advice may not benefit people with autism, but autism and SAD are not the same thing. As far as I understand, the OP only addressed social anxiety.
Are not the same thing? I do not think so. If people weren't awkward and confused in social situations, due to inability to read people and interact, they wouldn't be afraid of it either. In my opinion many people here have at least mild autism (aspergers). Then there are those who are normal and function fairly well, only are a bit anxious, or have other problems. I think I can often tell from the posts, who belongs where. Putting it all just under the label "social anxiety" is inexact and unfair.. when the society thinks you're normal and doesn't recognize your disability, it will be only accusing you of not trying enough, in spite that you're trying but can't. Normal people who never had it will never understand what it is like to live with it. And unless we start labeling it properly and letting them know, they will still make the same mistake. And it is also our fault (the people on the forum) that we only think we have SA.

I can't in fact imagine what else could be the reason for social anxiety, other than some mild social retardation. And if you're socially retarded, you're autistic. If you aren't, what else makes you anxious then?? If it's due to the lack of experience with people, all you need to do is to get out there and get more experience and practice. With me, no amount of this will do anything. I have travelled the world and am still the same idiot.
Lea is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
Lea Lea is offline
Banned
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,453
Thanked 0 Times
Lea Lea is offline
Banned
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,453
Thanked 0 Times
You know it's ridiculous saying that shy/aspergers/SA or whatever you call it people are this way because they're not trying enough. And those, who are social and extraverted are this way because they worked so hard. Why is so difficult to understand that they didn't have to try AT ALL! They're just born normal, the people skills and instincts naturally come to them. Even on the contrary, if they had to try or work on it, it would be counterproductive because it wouldn't be natural anymore.
Lea is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
hoddesdon's Avatar
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 2,613
Thanked 19 Times
hoddesdon hoddesdon is offline
Elite User
hoddesdon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 2,613
Thanked 19 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lea View Post
You know it's ridiculous saying that shy/aspergers/SA or whatever you call it people are this way because they're not trying enough. And those, who are social and extraverted are this way because they worked so hard. Why is so difficult to understand that they didn't have to try AT ALL! They're just born normal, the people skills and instincts naturally come to them. Even on the contrary, if they had to try or work on it, it would be counterproductive because it wouldn't be natural anymore.
Shield is not saying that people are this way because they're not trying enough. He is saying that they do not counteract it because they're not trying enough.

Yes, extroverted people do not have to try (well, maybe some do). Yet there are some elite athletes who have less natural ability than some other elite athletes, but they try harder. The reward is the same. It is like speaking a foreign language. It is very rare to be able to speak a foreign language like a native. Yet being able to speak it well enough is a great achievement.
__________________
vegetables of the world unite - you have nothing to lose but dousing with salad dressing
hoddesdon is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
Pookah's Avatar
Elite User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 2,573
Thanked 0 Times
Pookah Pookah is offline
Elite User
Pookah's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 2,573
Thanked 0 Times
Autism has no cure. So I do agree with Lea that some of us with the co-morbid conditions will not benefit from the same advice. Those with later onset may find more value in the points of the OP.
__________________
"I cannot speak well enough to be unintelligible."
Pookah is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
Lea Lea is offline
Banned
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,453
Thanked 0 Times
Lea Lea is offline
Banned
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,453
Thanked 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoddesdon View Post
Shield is not saying that people are this way because they're not trying enough. He is saying that they do not counteract it because they're not trying enough.

Yes, extroverted people do not have to try (well, maybe some do). Yet there are some elite athletes who have less natural ability than some other elite athletes, but they try harder. The reward is the same. It is like speaking a foreign language. It is very rare to be able to speak a foreign language like a native. Yet being able to speak it well enough is a great achievement.
There is nothing wrong with trying and hard work in life GENERALLY and everybody should do it, regardless of what he is like and what problems he have. But it would be an unrealistic goal to want to "cure SA", if the people in fact have aspergers and can't do it. All you can do is try to live with it, but not cure it. Many people here just beat themselves up about being stupid, ugly, inferior etc etc. But it is counterproductive. They have these problems and thoughts and feelings just because they have the social dyslexia and can't interact with others properly. They have to recognize it as such and also have to diferentiate what is their fault and what isn't, what they can change and what they can't change. Otherwise they're only beating themselves up in vain with no use and what's worse, the society will believe it to them and think it's really their fault. Then no wonder the world outside thinks that "social phobics" are just moany cowards.

Last edited by Lea; 01-16-2011 at 11:48 PM.
Lea is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
Remus's Avatar
Super Moderator
Elite User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 9,420
Thanked 34 Times
Remus Remus is offline
Super Moderator
Elite User
Remus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 9,420
Thanked 34 Times
Not sure what the problem is here, he has posted this 'SA only' topic in the SA forum
__________________
‘Nietzsche says there are two kinds of people in the world. People who are destined for greatness, like Walt Disney and Hitler and then there’s the rest of us. He called us, ‘the bungled and the botched.’ We get teased we sometimes get close to greatness, but we never get there. We’re the expendable masses. We get pushed in front of trains, take poison aspirin and get gunned down in Dairy Queens.’ The Fisher King
Remus is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
philly2bits's Avatar
Elite User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 1,577
Thanked 0 Times
philly2bits philly2bits is offline
Elite User
philly2bits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 1,577
Thanked 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lea View Post
I remember this thread, it was around when I joined the forum. It annoys me that people who don't have a clue what this disability really means try to offer some smart *** cures. If only it was that easy! Maybe it is, but what OP suggests works only for people who are mildly anxious. The greatest misunderstanding of this forum is, that mild anxiety and autism-like symptoms are thrown into the same bag and labelled as SA. Then those who only had some mild anxiety and overcame it think that everyone can do it and who can't, is lazy or a coward.. Those advices are not bad generally, but out of the place here. If you're born socially retarded, there is nothing you can do with it. Wanting to cure it with those advices is like wanting to cure cancer with aspirin.
Don't you think you're overreacting? You have no idea what Shield really meant by saying SA. Maybe he meant it as a stand in for boarder social inhibition, or maybe he did mean anxiety in social situations. You don't know. The advice is no way out of place here considering this site has members with a wide range of problems. If it doesn't help you then simply move on. Their are many posts by members who have autism/Asperger's with advice you can get help from.
__________________
I applied my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly.
philly2bits is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011
Remus's Avatar
Super Moderator
Elite User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 9,420
Thanked 34 Times
Remus Remus is offline
Super Moderator
Elite User
Remus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 9,420
Thanked 34 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookah View Post
Autism has no cure. So I do agree with Lea that some of us with the co-morbid conditions will not benefit from the same advice. Those with later onset may find more value in the points of the OP.
You would be better seeking advice from a more specific site I should think
__________________
‘Nietzsche says there are two kinds of people in the world. People who are destined for greatness, like Walt Disney and Hitler and then there’s the rest of us. He called us, ‘the bungled and the botched.’ We get teased we sometimes get close to greatness, but we never get there. We’re the expendable masses. We get pushed in front of trains, take poison aspirin and get gunned down in Dairy Queens.’ The Fisher King
Remus is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011
Lea Lea is offline
Banned
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,453
Thanked 0 Times
Lea Lea is offline
Banned
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,453
Thanked 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by philly2bits View Post
Don't you think you're overreacting? You have no idea what Shield really meant by saying SA. Maybe he meant it as a stand in for boarder social inhibition, or maybe he did mean anxiety in social situations. You don't know. The advice is no way out of place here considering this site has members with a wide range of problems. If it doesn't help you then simply move on. Their are many posts by members who have autism/Asperger's with advice you can get help from.
You probably didn't read the rest of my posts on here. I think I have many good points.
Lea is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011
philly2bits's Avatar
Elite User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 1,577
Thanked 0 Times
philly2bits philly2bits is offline
Elite User
philly2bits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 1,577
Thanked 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lea View Post
Are not the same thing? I do not think so. If people weren't awkward and confused in social situations, due to inability to read people and interact, they wouldn't be afraid of it either.
Anxiety doesn't need to conform to such rules. Sometimes it just happens.

Quote:
In my opinion many people here have at least mild autism (aspergers). Then there are those who are normal and function fairly well, only are a bit anxious, or have other problems. I think I can often tell from the posts, who belongs where.
How can you tell that over the internet with only a persons words as a clue?

Quote:
Putting it all just under the label "social anxiety" is inexact and unfair.. when the society thinks you're normal and doesn't recognize your disability, it will be only accusing you of not trying enough, in spite that you're trying but can't. Normal people who never had it will never understand what it is like to live with it. And unless we start labeling it properly and letting them know, they will still make the same mistake. And it is also our fault (the people on the forum) that we only think we have SA.
So most of us have Autism and are just in denial? Is that what you are getting at? Make me understand.

Quote:
I can't in fact imagine what else could be the reason for social anxiety, other than some mild social retardation. And if you're socially retarded, you're autistic. If you aren't, what else makes you anxious then?? If it's due to the lack of experience with people, all you need to do is to get out there and get more experience and practice. With me, no amount of this will do anything. I have travelled the world and am still the same idiot.
I take it you have Asperger's. To find help you'd have to look into that and not so much to advice for SA, AvPD, panic attacks or anything else. They are different. They can overlap somewhat which may the cause of your confusion but in the end they do require different steps to overcome or become less of a hindrance to life.
__________________
I applied my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly.
philly2bits is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011
Elite User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,841
Thanked 0 Times
Feathers Feathers is offline
Elite User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,841
Thanked 0 Times
YAY the mods stickied it!

Lea, some of us do find this thread really helpful, sorry to hear it bothered you..

It seems to say exactly what you're saying - to accept yourself and learn to live as you are, compare to yourself only, embrace that you're unique..
Feathers is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011
Remus's Avatar
Super Moderator
Elite User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 9,420
Thanked 34 Times
Remus Remus is offline
Super Moderator
Elite User
Remus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 9,420
Thanked 34 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feathers View Post
YAY the mods stickied it!
We've had a few requests off different members over the last few weeks, I'm still a little undecided as to the threads use after viewing some replies
__________________
‘Nietzsche says there are two kinds of people in the world. People who are destined for greatness, like Walt Disney and Hitler and then there’s the rest of us. He called us, ‘the bungled and the botched.’ We get teased we sometimes get close to greatness, but we never get there. We’re the expendable masses. We get pushed in front of trains, take poison aspirin and get gunned down in Dairy Queens.’ The Fisher King
Remus is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011
Lea Lea is offline
Banned
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,453
Thanked 0 Times
Lea Lea is offline
Banned
Elite User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,453
Thanked 0 Times
I have AS but people would never think so if I didn’t tell them. They usually think I am just shy and quiet, or anxious. So it was implied to me I was a coward my whole life. I always heard, I have it because I don’t go out, because I don’t try enough to be social, what a nonsense! I find this unfair, that’s why I took somewhat personally the original post. And yes I think many people here have autistic traits, but probably don’t like to her it. They get offended by me saying so because they think they’re not THAT MENTAL and if I have it, I must be a lot worse off than them, so that I even shouldn’t be on this forum, but in some mental asylum.

To demonstrate a bit what I mean by aspergers, have you been to Family constellations? Try it and if you have no problems there, you are normal. If you do, then you might be like me.
How it works – there are up to 20 people sitting in circle. One person who wants to build a constellation starts telling her life story, including all her family, relatives, partners, husbands, children from X marriages including abortions and unborn children etc… It’s here when I start having problems, I have difficulty understanding the story, follow what’s going on, I don’t remember all the people. But surprisinly, the workshop leader has no problem with it, she knows perfectly what’s going on and instantly knows how to react to it. I assume also all others know. Then the concerned person chooses people from the circle to represent her family and life members, positions them in various constellation in the room (probably according to how she feels it, which I didn’t get, because I didn’t feel anything). Then the leader asks them one by one how they are feeling and what they are feeling towards the other members. Now the people start having the feelings and behave just as the real family members would.. I found it totally INCREDIBLE! I myself couldn’t even remember the original story, let alone who is who, let alone to feel what the original family members would feel!! But others had absolutely no problem with it, they quite naturaly played a show (often quite emotional) which I didn’t get. They were even crying and everyone knew who was who, what they had to feel toward him and what was going on. I was just staring with my mouth open. I told them right at the beginning that I am not able to feel what the others would feel, I even didn’t get what was going on! Although I tried hard. I tried hard to remember the story, I tried hard to remember the family members, but at most I managed to remember a couple of them (let alone I forgot it again when they slightly changed places). It was so hard for me that I was on the verge of collaps most of the time, I also felt like I can’t do it and that I would run away. I felt I was totally mental, retarded. How come I can’t cope with something others find so simple? Do I have low IQ? I am afraid I do, although when I did the test, I scored allegedly above the average. Or maybe I have very low emotional inteligence? I was on the workshop with my friend from elementary school who told me I was exchaggerating and not retarded, she remembers me that I used to have good grades. Many people I meet say I don’t have aspergers and that the diagnosis can’t be right because I talk normally and use gestures – I don’t seem mental to them. I know they think I am just shy and anxious, but the truth is, I am heavily retarded.

Last edited by Lea; 01-17-2011 at 12:35 PM.
Lea is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does anyone else have trouble speaking to people? roopzie Social Anxiety Forum 12 04-21-2011 02:36 AM
I have trouble being affectionate towards people Uglyduckling Social Anxiety Forum 16 12-11-2010 06:27 PM
Let's make a list all the reasons why people without SA should be jealous of us. mmmm Social Anxiety Forum 62 11-13-2010 12:20 AM
6 reasons... for you Luna1740 Friendship & Love 0 05-27-2010 03:29 AM
Reasons, or.... ?? lyricalliaisons Social Anxiety Forum 25 05-23-2010 09:13 AM

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:53 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
 
Contact Us Privacy