Narcissistic Personality Disorder

dottie

Well-known member
is there a relationship between narcissistic personality disorder and social anxiety?

according to wikipedia...

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder in which the individual is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity.

these are socially unacceptable traits! knowing this, could we be suppressing this nasty, deep-rooted nature in order to pass as socially acceptable? could the struggle between our incredibly selfish nature and trying to pass as socially acceptable manifest as social anxiety?

thoughts?
 

dottie

Well-known member
oh yeah... and i took this narcissistic personality test twice. the first time i took the test, i put myself in the raw mindset of how i would react as i was when i was a child, at home, unleashed around my family without influence of the outside world, (literally imagining myself 12 and at home with my family). i scored a 36/40, HIGH in all areas.

i then cleared my mind and took the test again, answering as i act in general today. this time i scored a 16/40, with mostly MEDIUM/LOW in all areas.

the point in doing this was to see if i answered differently, and i did. were these narcissistic behaviors something i grew out of or is my true nature a raging narcissist? is my anxiety caused by suppressing my true nature?

thinking too much. need to get out of head.
 

gustavofring

Well-known member
Isn't narcissistic personality disorder also a sign of deep insecurity?

I wonder about this. Sometimes I can spend too much time in front of a mirror, but it's not because I'm vain necessarily, but because I am insecure about my looks.
 
U

user deleted

Guest
Children do have a propensity towards narcissistic traits.. but that's just the nature of childhood I think.

Before I answer, this is just based on experience with three people with NPD in my life, and the reading I've done around it.. in no way am I an expert or qualified at all.

I don't know whether you're a narcissist.. but the first clue to me that you probably aren't is the willingness to scrutinize your character. People with NPD find it very hard to accept they have NPD, they're very unwilling to accept any flaw in their character (other than the flaws they purposefully project that are advantageous for them). NPDs tend towards pathological lying, about themselves, about their achievements.. they also have an almost victim-ish mentality (though they'd never show themselves as a victim, that would elucidate weakness). It is never the NPDs fault, it is always someone else's, and they're the martyr. I obviously don't know you, but from what I've seen from your posts you don't have that mentality all.. an NPD wouldn't be able to accept that they're somehow imperfect. NPDs are extremely childish in this regard, they don't have emotional maturity.. I could go on for hours, but here's a fairly comprehensive list of NPD traits.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) – Common Expressions & Behaviour : Melanie Tonia Evans

I had a really bad experience with an NPD the last couple of years, and I also have an ex partner with NPD. Both of them exhibited pretty much every symptom on that list. The former actually did struggle with social anxiety I think.. he often told me he found it difficult to associate with people, but then that seemed to be because he felt he was better than them, he couldn't relate because they were intellectually or morally inferior to him, so instead he just used people or would play extremely weird games with them. The former didn't seem to have any problems socially.

In a way, NPDs are 'outside' of society, just like people with S/P. I think the way in which we differ is that NPDs are outside because their personality is falsified, they have no true sense of self. They're lonely because everything people know of them is a projection, and they have no way of truly relating to others.

I can see traits of NPD in myself, too. I'm a control freak, I'm obsessed about how the world sees me etc.. but then I know I'm not a malignant narcissist because I lack some of the other key features. I think if I looked at any personality disorder, I could see some overlap, but I don't think I have them. I wouldn't worry too much.

Ugh I talk too much. Maybe I am a narcissist after all.
 

gustavofring

Well-known member
Looking at that list i'd say about 90 % of today's people, either in the academic field or business world, have this.
 

Lea

Banned
oh yeah... and i took this narcissistic personality test twice. the first time i took the test, i put myself in the raw mindset of how i would react as i was when i was a child, at home, unleashed around my family without influence of the outside world, (literally imagining myself 12 and at home with my family). i scored a 36/40, HIGH in all areas.

i then cleared my mind and took the test again, answering as i act in general today. this time i scored a 16/40, with mostly MEDIUM/LOW in all areas.

the point in doing this was to see if i answered differently, and i did. were these narcissistic behaviors something i grew out of or is my true nature a raging narcissist? is my anxiety caused by suppressing my true nature?

thinking too much. need to get out of head.

Jesus, no. You´re making it far too complicated. To harness ego is the goal of people on this planet, not to extinguish it. I think it´s completely OK as you became now in adulthood. There is no need to extinguish ego, but not to act on its impulses, to supress it so to say. Or would you - in the interest of your "mental health" - rather like to become a raging narcissist now? Do you think it would make you feel better, to be a bitch causing others harm and not feel guilty about it? I wouldn´t!! When I should speak for myself, I don´t even think that being bad like this is my true nature, don´t know with others though. But whatever the case, I definitely recommend to fight with your narcissistic side, try to become a cultivated, unselfish person. That´s what we are here for, to learn, to cultivate ourselves, to become better people. Btw I said "mental health" because I think narcissistic people are mentally ill, not healthy.
 

gustavofring

Well-known member
Where does one draw the line between healthy selfconfidence and narcissism?

Are overly confident people, who have an over-inflated ego, who get a lot of approval from their peers and aren't necessarily negatively affected by it also narcissists?

If you're confident, should you be neurotic about keeping your "narcissistic traits" in check?
 

mikebird

Banned
I like the idea

The questions are ridiculously simple. No ambiguity

I feel very much that everyone in the world is oppressive, godly and have power over me due to their natural social status. A part of that is getting ignored and forgotten by people I like. I find that is their passive action.

I do fight back and get extremely angry at being told what to do or being criticised. I sometimes shout at an unbelievable volume - on phone or directly with people. It makes me seem very meek. My rage does get me slamming the floor disturbingly hard. Or looking in someone's eyes as I tap my forefinger on a table, hardly touching, making a point. My inner strength comes from a deep hatred of any human who tells a person what to do. I discovered the Narcissist term a few years ago. I am the absolute opposite of such people. I make a point when I get emotional. I know that when I do it, the person doesn't listen or have a tiniest clue what I mean. The worst that's happened has been when I've tried to escape from hospital. I have been successful, briefly. No human has ever been subject to my rage, of course. I've run from people, back towards them when I chase, dodging, to go another way. I've lied down on my back in a ward corridor, as staff gather around me, with the back of my head against a door, and they use their shoes to stop me opening it. I point at my nose, looking in their eyes, suggesting they use their shoes or fists on my nose to subdue me.

It's just emotion. We all end up laughing.

My temper only happens for a serious reason. Insecurity and unfairness, or a simple argument over thinking different. I never initiate it to achieve anything against anyone.

So far, I think I am really luck to have never been subject to any violence yet.
I'm still in one piece! A blessing! :D

Your score is
8

Your score for Authority is LOW

Your score for Self-sufficiency is LOW

Your score for Superiority is LOW

Your score for Exhibitionism is LOW

Your score for Exploitativeness is LOW

Your score for Vanity is LOW

Your score for Entitlement is MEDIUM
 
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U

user deleted

Guest
Where does one draw the line between healthy selfconfidence and narcissism?

Are overly confident people, who have an over-inflated ego, who get a lot of approval from their peers and aren't necessarily negatively affected by it also narcissists?

Narcissists seek out approval though, constantly. They seek out 'narcissistic supply' and can go to extremes to get it. Narcissism isn't just self-love. Narcissists also don't really have self-confidence, as they don't really exist as personalities. They create a false persona that they project to the world. There are major, major differences.
 

gustavofring

Well-known member
Narcissists seek out approval though, constantly. They seek out 'narcissistic supply' and can go to extremes to get it. Narcissism isn't just self-love. Narcissists also don't really have self-confidence, as they don't really exist as personalities. They create a false persona that they project to the world. There are major, major differences.

Still, I think these are traits that are present in most humans, but are just enlarged in some people. We ALL seek validation and social approval. Yes, even the people who seem mentally healthy and social. And some people may be better at hiding their ego, or aren't as desperate in it. Also what is a "false persona"? If you are a naturally quiet and anti social people and you make an effort to be more social and friendly you are a narcissist?

All in all , I think narcissism is just another confusing mindboggling concept that psychologists invented to label people and doesn't actually solve anything.
 
U

user deleted

Guest
We ALL seek validation and social approval. Yes, even the people who seem mentally healthy and social.

Yes, we do. But, for example, my existence and sense of self isn't contingent on a constant stream of flattery from others. That isn't what defines me, that isn't what gives me a reason to continue on living, and I won't go to extreme lengths (i.e. manipulating or abusing others) to get it.

Also what is a "false persona"?


What I mean by this is the 'false self'. When we're with different people, of course we adapt our external behaviour to match. For example there are things I might discuss with friends that I wouldn't discuss with my mother. That's perfectly normal. Narcissists don't really have an identity at all, they have no sense of self. During the vital stages of childhood development they become arrested and don't develop an identity. Instead, they develop an idealistic character profile which is divorced from the 'real' self. What follows is the need to constantly convince others that they are a certain way, and in turn other people reinforce the narcissist (narcissistic supply) that's what gives a narcissist their identity.

This probably explains it much better than I can:

Behind the Facade: The "False Self" of the Narcissist | Psychology Today

What's wrong with developing this 'false self' this you might ask. Well, from my experience (remember, this is purely anecdotal, I'm not a psychologist) it causes a great deal of depression in the narcissist because they cannot ever live up to the grandiose ideals they have specified for themselves. It's also exhausting to be constantly living like this. Imagine you're living like you're constantly in front of cameras.. like people are watching your every move, and you're having to co-ordinate yourself so that people perceive you in a certain way. The narcissist is constantly doing this. In relationships, narcissists do have the tendency to be abusive, their partners become a source of narcissistic supply, and the narcissist will abuse them (most often mentally) in order to gain it. They suffer extreme rage. Narcissists also have a real problem with being faithful because they are constantly seeking something better, they are never satisfied with what they have. Narcissists react to criticism with overwhelming anger. Their anger is inappropriate for the situation, for example a narcissist will take a reasonable critique of their work as a personal attack, will silently seethe and possible seek vengeance which they justify to themselves as righteous.

I don't think these traits are necessarily as common as you're saying they are. Sure, we all might share one or two, to some degree, but it becomes a disorder when it's all of it, and it's affecting your entire life.. like any disorder.

All in all , I think narcissism is just another confusing mindboggling concept that psychologists invented to label people and doesn't actually solve anything.

Well.. NPD becomes a disorder when it interferes with your ability to function day-to-day in a reasonable, socially acceptable way. It's the same as any disorder. OCD for example - I think everyone on the planet can identify OCD traits in themselves. But, if you're spending inordinate amounts of time undertaking rituals you feel you need to do, it becomes a disorder. I don't think labels are always arbitrary.
 

Facethefear

Well-known member
Good! A subject I know a lot about...sadly.
Q: is there a relationship between narcissistic personality disorder and social anxiety?...were these narcissistic behaviors something i grew out of or is my true nature a raging narcissist? is my anxiety caused by suppressing my true nature?

A: Amp said it - No -People with NPD they're very unwilling to accept any flaw in their character (other than the flaws they purposefully project that are advantageous for them). NPDs tend towards pathological lying, about themselves, about their achievements. It is never the NPDs fault, it is always someone else's.. an NPD wouldn't be able to accept that they're somehow imperfect. NPDs don't have emotional maturity.

"NPDs are 'outside' of society, just like people with S/P... their personality is falsified, they have no true sense of self. They're lonely because everything people know of them is a projection, and they feel others are intellectually or morally inferior to them, so they use people or play extremely weird games with them."

Q: What do you do when you meet someone with NPD?
A: Run away and never look back. You will save yourself an experience akin to dealing with a lunatic. Every innocent conversation will be misremembered and turned against you. Every humerous remark will be recalled as insults. Every innocent question is considered probing. They will start arguments and blame you for imagined offences that they will insist happened then days later will change their mind and insist nothing happened. They will make you think you have had a stroke. Their inflated sense of their extreme importance in this world allows them to write all over the internet how wonderful they are and how they are this close to God and are expert at everything in their intelligent , compassionate, generous, loving, non-bullying, joyful way. In reality, they are snobs with no sense of humour and spend their welfare cheque on themselves denying their children anything more than the basic needs of life and every hour is about satisfying themselves.
Think of the worst hypocrite you could ever imagine and that is a person with NPD. They are better actresses than Meryl Streep with their Mother Theresa act. They use their children to get a free ride in life and every Government handout intended for the kids somehow ends up for the mother's use. They are for all the right causes and against bullying and cannot see how their emotional outbursts are wrong in anyway. They feel they are the most busy, productive ones around after they can get out of bed at 9 AM. I could go on but just thinking about this monster makes me grit my teeth.
They don't have confidence they have arrogance. They don't have intelligence they have crazy thoughts. They don't have strength they have inner rage. When you deal with one like this you enter their world of delusion and the end result is they win and you lose.
 

Remus

Moderator
Staff member
Anyone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, would not think they had Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
 

Lea

Banned
I just did the test, got score 1 (doesn´t surprise me at all)

1
Your score for Authority is LOW
Your score for Self-sufficiency is LOW
Your score for Superiority is LOW
Your score for Exhibitionism is LOW
Your score for Exploitativeness is LOW
Your score for Vanity is LOW
Your score for Entitlement is LOW
 

laure15

Well-known member
@Lea: Me too! I got a score of 1!

On an unrelated note, I took the psychopath test on the same website and scored a 5 out of 40.
 

psych

Well-known member
Kind of an old thread here...Interesting... I haven't been on the board as much lately.... Have missed stuff... At the risk of being the thread ender, will post anyways...


I was abused by a narcissist as a child.
Later on in life, I found myself with two severely narcissistic female friends... It forced me to recognize that it had become a pattern... I had unwittingly sought out my abuser...
Cut them both out of my life, & have moved on since. I scored a 4 on this test.

Google Fred Phelps if you want to read about some seriously twisted narcissism.
 
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Odo

Banned
I think there's often some sort of relationship between the two, but not always.

People with SA tend to be extremely protective of their own feelings and I've noticed quite a few of us tend to blame everyone else but ourselves for how we feel. Either that or we use our low self-esteem in order to elicit negative attention from those who might show us sympathy.

To be frank a lot of us can go on endlessly about our own problems with little regard for how tasteless it is to do so, or how draining it is or how uncomfortable it makes other people. I guess that's more of a depression thing, though, and not necessarily an SA thing… and really, if people are willing to shower someone with attention, praise or other forms of attention just because they beat themselves up (ie: you're not ugly!, it's not your fault!, etc. etc.), then you really can't blame them… most of us were raised during the self-esteem movement where the solution to every problem was to shower children with an unrealistic sense of their own importance/value… and that definitely has an effect on what we come to expect from people even after we stop being cute.

I guess loneliness is a big part of why people turn to negative attention… it's hard to get people to want to talk to you so sometimes you have to do whatever you can to make them listen… if someone is acting like everything is perfectly fine, then people are far less likely to pay them any notice.
 
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cowboyup

Well-known member
Isn't narcissistic personality disorder also a sign of deep insecurity?

I wonder about this. Sometimes I can spend too much time in front of a mirror, but it's not because I'm vain necessarily, but because I am insecure about my looks.

@Gustav...I often wonder this as well. re: NPD sign of insecurity.
I knew this person who, every time I talk to them, the convo would revolve around them, how he didn't know how others would survive without him at work, how he is so awesome at computer-related stuff that he runs circles around others...blah, blah, blah...Then, all that 'self centered esteem' quickly turned south and he was full of doubt and self admitted insecurity and misanthropic feelings when he felt he was being ignored or not given attention.
 

cowboyup

Well-known member
I think there's often some sort of relationship between the two, but not always.

People with SA tend to be extremely protective of their own feelings and I've noticed quite a few of us tend to blame everyone else but ourselves for how we feel. Either that or we use our low self-esteem in order to elicit negative attention from those who might show us sympathy.

To be frank a lot of us can go on endlessly about our own problems with little regard for how tasteless it is to do so, or how draining it is or how uncomfortable it makes other people. I guess that's more of a depression thing, though, and not necessarily an SA thing… and really, if people are willing to shower someone with attention, praise or other forms of attention just because they beat themselves up (ie: you're not ugly!, it's not your fault!, etc. etc.), then you really can't blame them… most of us were raised during the self-esteem movement where the solution to every problem was to shower children with an unrealistic sense of their own importance/value… and that definitely has an effect on what we come to expect from people even after we stop being cute.

I guess loneliness is a big part of why people turn to negative attention… it's hard to get people to want to talk to you so sometimes you have to do whatever you can to make them listen… if someone is acting like everything is perfectly fine, then people are far less likely to pay them any notice.


You bring up a good point, Odo.
Myself included, tend to drone on and on about ME...However, in the past few months, I have noticed that pattern within me, and have since been addressing it and trying to be a better person in that regard. I have been around people who are just vampires of emotion and you take away this draining, tired feeling...point is, I don't want to be one of those persons.
I realize what happens to me, what I think and feel, sometimes is really not that big of a deal as what I make it out to be in my head.
 
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