Why I'm thankful I was bullied

[madmike]

Why I'm thankful I was bullied - Comment - Voices - The Independent

Interesting article on bullying, which made me think about the other side of it. What about those people who weren't bullied as a child, but maybe could have benefited from it now?

I'm sitting on the fence with this one by the way. I know a lot of people on here were bullied and blame it on their current situation. Some of the stories I've read were horrendous and I really do feel for those people and am thankful that those things didn't happen to me (I was never really bullied at all actually). However, bullying isn't something that can be easily defined because it comes in so many different shapes and forms, and I guess this article is arguing in favour of what it calls 'humbling', rather than a very violent physical form of bullying.

What do you guys think? Can bullying actually be good for you?

 

[MNM322]

I admit I didn't read the article, too tired right now but yes I too am thankful. For me... it came to that choice where every bullied victim gets... let them win or fight and go on to prove them wrong
I was tired of letting them win by bullying me so I decided then and there to prove them wrong and I pushed myself so hard to get where I am today. Not don't think I am a social butterfly or anything but I will talk to people moreso than I ever did back then. I believe I am a good person and there is actually things I like about myself, where as before, I just wanted to die
I believe my dog saved me as silly as it sounds. For once in my life, when I got him as a puppy, suddenly i had someone not only to love and love me back, but that I had to devote a big part of my life to, it gave me a sense of purpose. From there, thats when my healing began

 

[laure15]

Should a bullied victim be thankful that he/she was bullied? Some people were grateful for the bullying because they claim it helps them become stronger and more confident later in life. Following the same line of reasoning, one should ask, should a rape victim be thankful that he/she was raped, or should a hate crime victim be thankful that he/she was hated?

this article is arguing in favour of what it calls 'humbling', rather than a very violent physical form of bullying.



Many people seem to get the idea that suffering, such as bullying, is the ONLY way to ever learn anything. But is this true? Sure, experiencing bullying can humble us, but there are other less extreme ways to learn humility as well. For example, you can volunteer at a homeless shelter, a food bank, or a woman’s shelter and the experience can teach you many things, including humility. If God wanted me to learn humility and I was given a choice between being bullied or doing community service, I would choose community service.

Some people say bullying makes you stronger and helps cultivate your fighting skills. Well, learning martial arts can provide you the same benefits, minus the trauma and hurt. Also, bullying doesn’t necessarily make every victim stronger and better; some victims develop depression, some commit suicide.

Bullying is wrong and no one deserves to be bullied.

From personal experience, I can say that I was worse off because of all the bullyings that I experienced. From the bullying, I have become a much more cynical person with trust issues.

 

[Hellhound]

No form of abuse can be good.

 

[Swifty]

I believe my dog saved me as silly as it sounds. For once in my life, when I got him as a puppy, suddenly i had someone not only to love and love me back, but that I had to devote a big part of my life to, it gave me a sense of purpose. From there, thats when my healing began

that's wonderful

 

[madmike]

Critical thinking should play a role in every piece of literature that we read. To reiterate; we should actively ask ourselves questions as we read along.
Who is the Author?
What is the conclusion and is it supported?
Should I accept what the article is trying to tell me?

I'm abstaining from the poll. Instead I'm going to say that this article represents everything that I find broken and wrong with this world. Nobody ever deserves to be bullied. That rationale is unacceptable. When you examine the pinnacle of bullies, convicts who have committed violent crimes, you'll quickly discover similar rationales. An associate of mine had worked in a correctional facility for sex offenders. They too, believe their victims deserved it. These are people who are clearly sick and possess extremely distorted perceptions of reality. Their model of the world allows them to commit these truly horrific and terrifying acts. Bullies on the other hand can often be very sick people as well. For one reason or the other they have accepted the mistreatment of others as their model of the world. Maybe they were shown another way but rejected it. Maybe this behavior is the only thing they have ever known. But hurting other people feeds them emotionally and makes them feel better. They are the ones who are sick, not the victims.

Deliberately hurting people is unacceptable. Period. Victims quickly learn that it isn't okay to be themselves. Victims will then try to pass themselves off as a social butterfly to avoid further mistreatment. Let me tell you; you do not need to change yourself for someone else. You do not need to learn to laugh at jokes that aren't even funny or aimed towards your own expense. Bullies should not learn that it is okay to bully, and continue to do so, unopposed. But please, I strongly implore everyone here; Don't allow this egotistical and self-proclaimed 'writor' to pass himself off as the voice of reason and authority. He is not a psychiatrist and he won't win a pulitzer prize anytime soon. Not only does he suggest victims deserve it, which they don't, he also discusses verbal abuse. I'm using the word abuse here because that's what it is. Abuse. Verbal abuse is soul crushing and may completely destroy people. This author is in absolutely no position to claim that verbal abuse is a humbling experience to be encouraged. Shame on him.

Thanks for the insight, I agree with what you say about critical thinking which is why I put this article up on here, to hear what other people have to say about the matter and help make up my own mind on this clearly controversial subject. This is from a section in the independent where non-professional journalists write in and voice strong opinions on a topic, so of course it's conclusions aren't going to be supported (it's meant to change the way we think about things and stimulate debate)

Instead I'm going to say that this article represents everything that I find broken and wrong with this world. Nobody ever deserves to be bullied.

This is clearly not a majority opinion, most people are probably on your side and see the bullies as oppressors and the people being bullied as victims. This article argues that it's not necessarily quite as clear-cut as that. Because of this I don't see how you can say that 'this is everything that is wrong with the world'. I would go as far as saying that a lot of what's wrong with this world is that we live in such a victim-culture, where everyone feels they're being abused in some way (ooh, I got injured at work because I fell off a ladder, I should get compensation! Etc).

I basically think your ideas are very black and white. Of course no one's arguing that rape and murder are justified, something I can personally only attribute to someone with serious mental and pathological disturbances (and who try to justify their acts by blaming the victims). But if one person is getting picked on by 30 people, are all these 30 people necessarily mentally disturbed (or sheep). Is it crazy to assume that it's possible that the person being bullied also has some flaws (being overly arrogant, irritating, etc) and that the bullying is making him more aware of these flaws and helping him integrate better? Or at least it could be argued that we can lay blame on both parties; the bully for being too impulsive and rash (instead of patiently explaining another person's annoying habits which are causing everyone grief) And the bullyee for acting in this way, whether intentionally or not.

I don't think bullying is right 100% of the time, or wrong 100% of the time. I just think it can sometimes help make people more self-aware and develop as a person.

 

[madmike]

No form of abuse can be good.

But what exactly is abuse? When a teacher tells a pupil to "STOP TALKING and pay attention to the lesson", is he abusing the pupil, infringing upon his freedom to be himself? No, I think it's a well-intentioned command meant to discipline the pupil and create a harmonious teaching environment.

In the same way, I believe that sometimes people just need to be told when they're acting in a way that offends or irritates others. To help them develop and to protect the harmony of the whole group.

Of course, this 'disciplining' can always be taken too far, and once a teacher starts smacking people with canes or screaming in their faces it's probably no longer about educating the pupil...

 

[JackOfSpades]

Is it crazy to assume that it's possible that the person being bullied also has some flaws (being overly arrogant, irritating, etc) and that the bullying is making him more aware of these flaws and helping him integrate better? Or at least it could be argued that we can lay blame on both parties; the bully for being too impulsive and rash (instead of patiently explaining another person's annoying habits which are causing everyone grief) And the bullyee for acting in this way, whether intentionally or not.

I don't think bullying is right 100% of the time, or wrong 100% of the time. I just think it can sometimes help make people more self-aware and develop as a person.

But what exactly is "irritating"? "Irritating" could mean anything and just like any other cause for bullying, could be absolutely arbitrary. And just because it may be the majority opinion that someone is irritating doesn't mean much either. There has to be a better barometer for what is right and isn't than just "majority", sometimes. And that barometer would have to be reason. Under reason I can't condone it.

I also don't think most people who say something like "I'm glad I was bullied" couldn't in their heart of hearts mean it. It sounds like something to say when trying to accept life and ourselves. But the use of "glad" sounds more akin to a denial, to me, and not the right way to accept.

 

[madmike]

Should a bullied victim be thankful that he/she was bullied? Some people were grateful for the bullying because they claim it helps them become stronger and more confident later in life. Following the same line of reasoning, one should ask, should a rape victim be thankful that he/she was raped, or should a hate crime victim be thankful that he/she was hated?



Many people seem to get the idea that suffering, such as bullying, is the ONLY way to ever learn anything. But is this true? Sure, experiencing bullying can humble us, but there are other less extreme ways to learn humility as well. For example, you can volunteer at a homeless shelter, a food bank, or a woman’s shelter and the experience can teach you many things, including humility. If God wanted me to learn humility and I was given a choice between being bullied or doing community service, I would choose community service.

Some people say bullying makes you stronger and helps cultivate your fighting skills. Well, learning martial arts can provide you the same benefits, minus the trauma and hurt. Also, bullying doesn’t necessarily make every victim stronger and better; some victims develop depression, some commit suicide.

Bullying is wrong and no one deserves to be bullied.

From personal experience, I can say that I was worse off because of all the bullyings that I experienced. From the bullying, I have become a much more cynical person with trust issues.

I agree, bullying is a very brutal and distressing way of learning life lessons, and no one is suggesting it's the only way or even the best way. But when children are bullied, they probably don't understand why they're being bullied (either because they're not aware of their own flaws, or because it genuinely isn't their fault and the bully is just a psychopath who gains pleasure from undermining other people). In the latter case bullying is obviously wrong, but what if it's the first case? A lot of people act very impulsively and don't realize how they come across to others (I think people with SA are actually an exception because we're generally very self-conscious). But for these other people, how will they ever learn about their flaws. Your suggestions make sense, but only once someone is aware enough to understand that they have these flaws.

 

[JackOfSpades]

But what exactly is abuse? When a teacher tells a pupil to "STOP TALKING and pay attention to the lesson", is he abusing the pupil, infringing upon his freedom to be himself? No, I think it's a well-intentioned command meant to discipline the pupil and create a harmonious teaching environment.

But I don't think anyone reasonable would call that abuse.

 

[madmike]

But what exactly is "irritating"? "Irritating" could mean anything and just like any other cause for bullying, could be absolutely arbitrary. And just because it may be the majority opinion that someone is irritating doesn't mean much either. There has to be a better barometer for what is right and isn't than just "majority", sometimes. And that barometer would have to be reason. Under reason I can't condone it.

I also don't think most people who say something like "I'm glad I was bullied" couldn't in their heart of hearts mean it. It sounds like something to say when trying to accept life and ourselves. But the use of "glad" sounds more akin to a denial, to me, and not the right way to accept.

Yeah, you've basically pointed out the main issue I have with all this. What exactly is 'irritating' and do people really have a right 'beat it out of you' so to speak, just because they've decided they don't like it. It's a difficult question.

The way I see it, basically, is that some people are on the inside of a group and others are on the outside. Being on the inside of a group is desirable because we're social animals, being on the outside is not desirable. In order to be accepted by a group, we may have to make some sacrifices, and adapt our behaviour until it becomes acceptable to them, regardless of whether or not it's objectively considered acceptable (By the way, I don't think you'll ever find this 'barometer', I think everything is relative).

I think the truth is that the majority does rule, unfortunately, and if you're not prepared to make certain sacrifices then be prepared to be shunned.

But I don't think anyone reasonable would call that abuse.

Yes, probably a bad example, but my argument still stands. Also, I think children will always be more direct than adults because they've not learnt to control their reactions yet (if the teacher lost his temper, he'd probably sound a lot less diplomatic too, but would that make it bullying?)

 

[laure15]

I agree, bullying is a very brutal and distressing way of learning life lessons, and no one is suggesting it's the only way or even the best way. But when children are bullied, they probably don't understand why they're being bullied (either because they're not aware of their own flaws, or because it genuinely isn't their fault and the bully is just a psychopath who gains pleasure from undermining other people). In the latter case bullying is obviously wrong, but what if it's the first case? A lot of people act very impulsively and don't realize how they come across to others (I think people with SA are actually an exception because we're generally very self-conscious). But for these other people, how will they ever learn about their flaws. Your suggestions make sense, but only once someone is aware enough to understand that they have these flaws.

Are you saying that people who act very impulsively should be bullied until they realize their flaws and start changing their behavior to better fit in? Isn't this a great way to develop social phobia? There's gotta be a better way. Instead of bullying, why not use more peaceful means.

A child who has flaws should not be bullied by other children because of his/her flaws. Instead, have an adult step in and try to correct the child. Other children should also play a supportive role. Someone once said that "it takes a village to raise a child."

 

[Esperance]

It's just stupid. I will NEVER says that something where there is a victim is good, it is probably a big exageration but there is actually people who die because of bullying and I believe that you can learn to the kids to defend themselves by some other way, school is a place where children should be happy to go, this is a place where they should learn to things like read. Not a place where they would be afraid to go
The childhood is a period where everything influence what the child will be in the future and there is no way some violence should influence the kids

 

[truffleshuffle]

Are you saying that people who act very impulsively should be bullied until they realize their flaws and start changing their behavior to better fit in? Isn't this a great way to develop social phobia? There's gotta be a better way. Instead of bullying, why not use more peaceful means.

A child who has flaws should not be bullied by other children because of his/her flaws. Instead, have an adult step in and try to correct the child. Other children should also play a supportive role. Someone once said that "it takes a village to raise a child."

What I want to know is who desides what flaws the person has. I am sorry but I defenlty don't agree with mike or you about this. Just becasue you deem it a flaw does not mean its a flaw. Every one is diffren;t in there own way.

 

[truffleshuffle]

I admit I didn't read the article, too tired right now but yes I too am thankful. For me... it came to that choice where every bullied victim gets... let them win or fight and go on to prove them wrong
I was tired of letting them win by bullying me so I decided then and there to prove them wrong and I pushed myself so hard to get where I am today. Not don't think I am a social butterfly or anything but I will talk to people moreso than I ever did back then. I believe I am a good person and there is actually things I like about myself, where as before, I just wanted to die
I believe my dog saved me as silly as it sounds. For once in my life, when I got him as a puppy, suddenly i had someone not only to love and love me back, but that I had to devote a big part of my life to, it gave me a sense of purpose. From there, thats when my healing began

I am glad you found away to overcome the obstical placed in your path M. Not everyone can do it and its a hard journy for sure.I am not thankfull that anyone gets bullied but I am thankful that some find there voice.

 

[JackOfSpades]

Human ritual sacrifices, were also popular with the Aztecs. Would you make the sacrifices rather than be shunned? Just because it was popular, do you believe it was right?

I had to agree with MadMikes statement that the non conformist has to be prepared to be shunned if he doesn't make sacrifices. But shunned by who? Certainly not people that should be important, in most cases. And are the sacrifices worth it? That answer depends on the circumstances and what sort of sacrifices (I think human was too literal? And certainly not an acceptable sacrifice) I do agree that it is the way of the world. But shunning and bullying don't equate to the same thing, to me. I can't tell someone who to accept and not. But I should be able to expect not to be harrassed. And that to me is what bullying boils down to.

 

[madmike]

Thank you for the thoughtful replies MadMike. To be honest, MNM322's post is the best thing I've seen here. That story really made my day. But I can tell that everything you've typed here is very thoughtful and respectful. I appreciate that.

You identified the crux of the verbal abuse issue the moment you asked what that term means. Verbal abuse is decidedly abstract and intangible. Physical abuse on the other hand is something that we can actively measure. So...
How do we define verbal abuse? We're all going to have our own subjective opinions. Additionally, there is no right and wrong answer when we consider others having their rights infringed. That too, is subjective. I do like your opinion on infringement.

Human ritual sacrifices, were also popular with the Aztecs. Would you make the sacrifices rather than be shunned? Just because it was popular, do you believe it was right?

Hah, this does raise some very interesting questions, you're right, and even as I was typing I thought about scenarios such as living among cannibals or something. To what extent do you go to gain social acceptance? I think most of us would claim that we wouldn't perform human sacrifices or eat human flesh to be integrated, and so would I, but it's something that's not easy to assess when you're not in that situation. Especially when living in a society where it would have been practically impossible to survive on your own, such as the Aztecs'.

For simplicity's sake though, imagine as a westerner living in a Muslim country. Muslim's don't eat pork, but lets go further and assume that they find it offensive, even when someone else does it. Now, as a westerner who loves his pork, do you continue to eat it in public at the risk of being socially shunned, or do you decide that it's worth making the sacrifice of eating something more socially acceptable and avoid offending. I think this is an example where a rational human being would opt for sacrificing some of his own beliefs in order to adapt to another group's beliefs. (Even though eating pork in itself is neither right nor wrong behaviour in my opinion, you're only changing your behaviour for the purpose of adapting)

 

[madmike]

Are you saying that people who act very impulsively should be bullied until they realize their flaws and start changing their behavior to better fit in? Isn't this a great way to develop social phobia? There's gotta be a better way. Instead of bullying, why not use more peaceful means.

A child who has flaws should not be bullied by other children because of his/her flaws. Instead, have an adult step in and try to correct the child. Other children should also play a supportive role. Someone once said that "it takes a village to raise a child."

No, I didn't mean people who act impulsively. I meant there are some people who aren't aware of their own actions or how they come across to others, and the only way to make them aware of certain negative behaviour traits is to call them out on it.

For example, someone in class is going round picking their nose and eating it. This isn't socially acceptable behaviour. Actually, picking your nose and eating isn't necessarily wrong, I've even read scientific articles which claim that it's normal and even healthy. But I think most people and most social groups would consider it disgusting and inappropriate. Now, as a child you'll probably get called out on it, laughed at, mocked, made fun of... and if your behaviour carries on you will get shunned. This is a form of bullying in my opinion. But it can be a positive form of bullying, because it will teach the child how to behave in society, and ensure that he doesn't do it as an adult.

Now, if an adult goes round picking his nose and such, people will probably shun him but maybe not call him out for it (I assume most adults would be too embarrassed to do so). This adult would then be rejected from society, but might not understand why. Wouldn't it have been better if he had been called out for it as a child? Wouldn't that have saved him a lot of grief as an adult, trying to identify why it is that people don't seem to like him?

This is just an example, but I think the same thing applies to other patterns of behaviour, which are easier to rectify as a child because people are more direct, and your personality is more malleable. Yes, you might go through some periods of social phobia/rejection, but it might also save you a lot of grief later on in life. As an adult it's so much more difficult because you've internatilized the behavioural patterns and don't have as much capacity to change.

 

[Billy-Bongo]

No. While everything can be learned and gained from. Getting positive out of a negative experience is the best way to deal with it, though that doesn't mean bullying is a good thing obviously. I think everyone or most at least feel the same about this, so it's basically a word game.

 

[BlackPuma]

It would require a very specific person to actually profit from the physical and mental pressure of bullying, so can it be good, sure.

But I think it's save to say that whatever character we draw from experiences of being bullied, is overshadowed by relived tortures from that time.

You can teach a dog by savagely beating it, but you can also teach it by addressing it's behaviour in a passive way that the animal understands. The savage beating will leave scars on it's psyche while the other method does not.

Bullying people isn't that much different. While you can potentially learn from it, it's by no means an ideal method as the negative side effects can be very severe. You're better of being taught discipline and control, in combination with humane struggles.