What RELIGION are you?

[Ehsan]

You asked for examples in the Qur'an that condone genocide and honor killing, and I PROVIDED THEM TO YOU. Those verses are being used as justification for suicide bombing and other horrible acts TO THIS VERY DAY.

you are repeating your rigid beliefs about Islam over and over. sorry, but i'm pretty sure that it's the biggest mistake of you.

OK, I'm seeking a flying teapot. Surely it exists?
Really? I've just created in my mind, a Drolahuramonearpoeloaefienus Monster. I could dedicate the rest of my life to seeking a Drolahuramonearpoeloaefienus Monster, that doesn't mean it exists.

you didn't get it again. we are not speaking about their names or shapes but we're speaking about their properties. we have seen several types of flying objects including birds, aircraft, ... also we have seen many types of live animals with different names and bodies but no one have seen any eternal thing. isn't it?

When we die, our brains decompose along with the rest of our body. Anything more than that is pure speculation, superstition, and blind faith.

Yes, when we die, we cease to exist. Anything other than that is pure speculation, superstition, and blind faith. I'm sorry that you can't accept reality.

substances changes in this world but existence never turns to inexistence or vice versa. we are made from the material of existence and we never end.

you can decompose if you want.

 

[SickJoke]

you are repeating your rigid beliefs about Islam over and over. sorry, but i'm pretty sure that it's the biggest mistake of you.

Those aren't my beliefs, those are facts.

you didn't get it again. we are not speaking about their names or shapes but we're speaking about their properties.

Names and shapes are properties.

we have seen several types of flying objects including birds, aircraft, ... also we have seen many types of live animals with different names and bodies

Obviously...

but no one have seen any eternal thing. isn't it?

And your point is? "We haven't seen it, so therefore it exists"? You've got it backwards.

substances changes in this world but existence never turns to inexistence or vice versa. we are made from the material of existence and we never end.

Yes, your body, including your brain, will decompose, and when that happens, "You" - your mind - will no longer exist.

you can decompose if you want.

It's not a choice, it's inevitable for all living things.

 

[Ehsan]

Those aren't my beliefs, those are facts.

no, my dear friend. i am not a simple foolish one. that's only propaganda. i'm already living with Islam if you have only heard about it.

Names and shapes are properties.
Obviously...
And your point is? "We haven't seen it, so therefore it exists"? You've got it backwards.

1)we're seeking eternity so we have seen some type of it(sth with this intrinsic property) before.
2)we haven't seen any form of it in this world so we are something greater than combination of chemical substances.

isn't enough?



what is the base of morals without religion and afterlife?
why one should respect morals without religion and afterlife?

 

[SickJoke]

no, my dear friend. i am not a simple foolish one. that's only propaganda. i'm already living with Islam if you have only heard about it.

You're kidding right? It's a well known fact that Islamic fanatics use the Qur'an as justification for suicide bombing, honor killing, and other horrible acts. Just because you live in a moderate Muslim community doesn't mean you represent all Muslims.

1)we're seeking eternity so we have seen some type of it(sth with this intrinsic property) before.
2)we haven't seen any form of it in this world so we are something greater than combination of chemical substances.

isn't enough?

No, you're not making sense. The human ego seeks immortality, because the thought of not existing is terrifying to some people. Religion is a delusional coping mechanism.

what is the base of morals without religion and afterlife?

Humans and other mammals evolved with a sense of morality, because it's beneficial to survival. Humans lived in small bands of about 40 people for hundreds of thousands of years. In those tribes, humans did favors for each other, because it improved the survival rate of the entire tribe.

Today, we live in a society much more complex from our ancestors, so we develop additional moral codes to make society possible, and we teach those codes to our children.

why one should respect morals without religion and afterlife?

Obviously not everyone respects the moral code, and we call them criminals. If the only reason you're not going around killing and raping people, is because you're afraid of the great, imaginary surveillance camera in the sky, well then that's your personal issue. I am a very moral atheist, and I would never wish any human to suffer.

 

[Ehsan]

You're kidding right? It's a well known fact that Islamic fanatics use the Qur'an as justification for suicide bombing, honor killing, and other horrible acts. Just because you live in a moderate Muslim community doesn't mean you represent all Muslims.

i say once again. you are mistaking about Islam. i am not here to convince you but i'm sorry why someone miss such a great religion because of propaganda. and Quran says about Mohammad:

Quran says about him:

Quran(2-128)
certainly a messenger has come to you from among yourselves; grievous to him is your falling into distress, excessively solicitous respecting you; to the believers.

(18-6)
then maybe you will kill yourself with grief, sorrowing after them, if they do not believe in this announcement

No, you're not making sense. The human ego seeks immortality, because the thought of not existing is terrifying to some people. Religion is a delusional coping mechanism.

very interesting.
could you please enlighten me what is the so-called "thought of not existing" . when we exist there is not any inexistence to feel and when we don't exist who want think about it.
could you even imagine inexistense. we are from the material of existense.

Humans and other mammals evolved with a sense of morality, because it's beneficial to survival. Humans lived in small bands of about 40 people for hundreds of thousands of years. In those tribes, humans did favors for each other, because it improved the survival rate of the entire tribe.

Today, we live in a society much more complex from our ancestors, so we develop additional moral codes to make society possible, and we teach those codes to our children.


Obviously not everyone respects the moral code, and we call them criminals. If the only reason you're not going around killing and raping people, is because you're afraid of the great, imaginary surveillance camera in the sky, well then that's your personal issue. I am a very moral atheist, and I would never wish any human to suffer.

morals without religion and afterlife is the most ridiculous theory i ever heard.
fearing GOD is very more reasonable compared to fearing laws.
we are sure that our deeds wont disappear even if anyone knows them.
this proves why crimes are growing every day.
survival? what it means for an atheist who will annihilate after some years. what has an atheist to lose?
existence for 1year or 1000 years isn't different if succeeds by inexistence.

 

[SickJoke]

i say once again. you are mistaking about Islam. i am not here to convince you but i'm sorry why someone miss such a great religion because of propaganda. and Quran says about Mohammad:

If you're seriously denying the fact that suicide bombing and honor killing takes place in the name of the Quran, you're either extremely sheltered, delusional, or outright lying.

very interesting.
could you please enlighten me what is the so-called "thought of not existing" .

Death.

when we exist there is not any inexistence to feel and when we don't exist who want think about it.

As humans we can ponder our own nonexistence.

could you even imagine inexistense.

Yes. For some people it's a very frightening thought. That's why religion, with the promise of eternal life, is consoling. It's a delusional coping mechanism.

we are from the material of existense.

That material will continue to exist in another form as we decompose. Our minds will no longer exist.

morals without religion and afterlife is the most ridiculous theory i ever heard.

Any atheist would find that statement very ridiculous.

fearing GOD is very more reasonable compared to fearing laws.

God is imaginary, laws are real.

this proves why crimes are growing every day.
survival?

Sweden, one of the most secular countries in the world, has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

what it means for an atheist who will annihilate after some years. what has an atheist to lose?

His life, his freedom, his morals...

existence for 1year or 1000 years isn't different if succeeds by inexistence.

Listen to what you're saying. Someone who dies at the age of 1000 could contribute so much more than someone who dies at the age of 1. Don't be ridiculous.

 

[Ehsan]

Well, it seems we're rotating around the first point we had started our discussion over and over and we hadn't made any progress after several days.
I think it's better to end it just here because our beliefs won't converge anyway.
I'm sorry because I couldn't make clear my feelings to you partly because I don't know English enough and it takes a long time for me to arrange some imperfect sentences or I have to change my sentences over and over to find correct one.

Anyway I highly appreciate you and others who spent lots of time to participate in this discussion. I really found many new things here about modern world's concerns about religion.

I wish you the bests, even better than what you want for yourself.

Regards,
Ehsan

One of the best words I've heard before:
A squirrel is enough to convince 10 millions of unbelievers.

 

[SickJoke]

Well, it seems we're rotating around the first point we had started our discussion over and over and we hadn't made any progress after several days.
I think it's better to end it just here because our beliefs won't converge anyway.

I've given you the facts. It's as if they bounced right off of you. I'm used to that happening, because I've had this discussion with many other strong believers. Nothing can convince them. They've walled off this one area of their mind, and on this one topic they'll cling to their belief based on no evidence. I just hope anyone who was on the fence, who read this conversation, will realize the absurdity of religion.

I'll leave you with the wise words of the late Carl Sagan:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Anyone who wishes to debate for their religion, come to RichardDawkins.net Forum • Index page and watch your argument get demolished

It's 2009. It's time to have some courage, to stop clinging to Bronze Age myths, and to face reality.

 

[jackinwa]

A squirrel is enough to convince 10 millions of unbelievers.

Yes, Ehsan, but the squirrel *HAS* to be seen to convince people! If acorns disappear from under a tree how can anyone say that the squirrel did it if it wasn't known for a fact that a squirrel did take them at all? It may be *BELIEVED* that they were taken, but belief and fact are totally different things. Though it wouldn't be safe to eat, someone can collect them off the ground and have other uses for them.

People can eat acorns!

What irritates me more than anything is that Islam, Christianity and Judaism all are religions that are based upon one man, Abraham, who is written in the Bible to live to be 175 years old! I won't get into the crazy ages of the other people found in the Bible because the age of the characters is just one of the problems I have with religion.

Genesis 25:7-8- Death of Abraham

I just want to build on the fact that Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all related:

Islam and Christianity = 99% the SAME religion

Abrahamic Religions- Wikipedia

Judaism, Islam, Christianity - Comparison

Ehsan, I urge you to examine at least two of the three links above. I simply believe there is more to life than to believe that people have lived to be 175 years old, there was a great flood that drowned the sinful people by a spirit who grants afterlife and so on. There is just simply more to life than believing in a monotheistic religion.

Enter my own faith.

I am not sure what I really believe but I have been clairvoyant. I have seen many things come to pass as an event that unfolded before me or an event that I had participated in, willingly or unwillingly.

My visions never really say when or how, who or what, beyond what is given to me in a dream. The visions are vague but when I examine the dream and what actually happened, it makes me feel kind of eerie and more than just a little speechless. I get my visions when my mind is pure and empty, like when I am falling asleep, or getting up for the morning. Perhaps this is when I am busy to the point I have to flush out everything but the essentials of what I am doing.

In any case, I have an event play in my head, like a dream. Something happens and I can take it with a grain of salt. But lately, I feel that I should not say, "oh, wow, okay, this happens... so what, it's just a thought, it means nothing..." especially if someone's life is in danger or there is some other risk to life, liberty and happiness.

Ehsan, you can tell me that it's some form of witchcraft or that I'm taken over by demons, that since I don't follow any religion, I cannot possibly be a prophet, or have a "powers" of any kind of prophet. That is your belief, but that's not what happened to me since 2002. I'm not a warrior in any sense, yet wars are being waged by beliefs for which some are those you believe yourself.

Jihad as Found in Judaism, Christianity and Islam

And in this sense of war, we have nothing. We have nothing because we kill in the name of God, a God that nobody sees and as far as I know doesn't even exist... in the way you believe he does. You hold on to a belief of a squirrel that can convince 10 million atheists. But the squirrel is just a myth, a superstition, a shadow of something else, like a great flood, a virgin birth or how creation happened were all myths too.

To actually be better humans, we should not be killing major groups of populations in major wars to feed the needs of a major spirit who can (reportedly) do it himself if he so chooses! If we want to survive as a civilization, we ought to know that it takes many different perspectives to make the world work! That's why the world is three dimensional to begin with! If the world was flat, then maybe a one-sided religion (or a world full of one sided religions) WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE (...we have this corner of the world, they can take that corner...)!

But a flat earth doesn't make sense. Neither does a one-sided religion.

Sorry, Ehsan, but that's the end of that story...

-Jack in WA

 

[Thelema]

Have you ever wondered why God always chooses a book to keep his information in? If I was God, I'd just send angels down to every town to answer all the questions and heal people and all that sort.

Well, I guess there is no reason I couldn't just do that myself. I mean, we have web cams, can't God rig something up? Why a book?

 

[Ehsan]

Thanks Jack,
I had decided to end this discussion coz it's very hard for me to continue according to my bad English.
First, I appreciate your kind way of discussing. Because being generous shows that one has many things(whether material or spiritual) and doesn't fear to lose some of them.
Of course, It's very hard for me to understand your literature.
I've answered many of your questions about Genocide,…before so I only say what I haven't said before.

Yes, Ehsan, but the squirrel *HAS* to be seen to convince people! If acorns disappear from under a tree how can anyone say that the squirrel did it if it wasn't known for a fact that a squirrel did take them at all? It may be *BELIEVED* that they were taken, but belief and fact are totally different things. Though it wouldn't be safe to eat, someone can collect them off the ground and have other uses for them.
People can eat acorns!

One of the biggest problem is that people seek scientific evidence to accept GOD. When you want to prove something with your knowledge you need to be predominant over it. At least you should be able to encompass it into your mind. But how you can encompass GOD inyo your mind to prove him.
He is the creator of our brain, time, space, maths, physics, nature…. and every other thing you can see or imagine.
Is it possible for one of your books to prove existence of you for other books? while, you aren't even the main creator of book(GOD is.)
So our only tool to believe in GOD is our wisdom and love. Of curse there are some philosophic proofs too that I never mind them.
Once again I recall this word:
Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?

What irritates me more than anything is that Islam, Christianity and Judaism all are religions that are based upon one man, Abraham, who is written in the Bible to live to be 175 years old! I won't get into the crazy ages of the other people found in the Bible because the age of the characters is just one of the problems I have with religion.

Genesis 25:7-8- Death of Abraham

Living for 175 years isn't weird these days but what do you say if you hear about Nuh who lived 950 years:
Quran(29:14):
"and certainly we sent nuh to his people, so he remained among them a thousand years save fifty years. and the deluge overtook them, while they were unjust"
Also we believe that Jesus and some other ones are still alive.
if you belive in GOD you also believe that anything isn't impossible for him coz he isn't imprisoned by nature laws while we are. He is creator of nature laws himself and is able to change them whenever he wants.

Abraham was one of the most wise persons ever lived. See how Abraham believes in GOD:
Quran(6:76-78):
so when the night over-shadowed him, he saw a star; said he: is this my lord? so when it set, he said: i do not love the setting ones (76) then when he saw the moon rising, he said: is this my lord? so when it set, he said: if my lord had not guided me i should certainly be of the erring people (77) then when he saw the sun rising, he said: is this my lord? is this the greatest? so when it set, he said: o my people! surely i am clear of what you set up (with allah) (78) surely i have turned myself, being upright, wholly to him who originated the heavens and the earth, and i am not of the polytheists

I just want to build on the fact that Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all related:

Islam and Christianity = 99% the SAME religion

Abrahamic Religions- Wikipedia

Judaism, Islam, Christianity - Comparison

Ehsan, I urge you to examine at least two of the three links above. I simply believe there is more to life than to believe that people have lived to be 175 years old, there was a great flood that drowned the sinful people by a spirit who grants afterlife and so on.

Ok, Abrahamic religions have many similarities and this is not a weak point. It shows that GOD has sent all of them.
Quran(6:82)
"and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: we are christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly"

There is just simply more to life than believing in a monotheistic religion.

I hope you understand what i mean:
"thought of not existing" is the most horrible "myth" ever because:
How we can feel inexistence ourselves while we exist? and who can feel/think about inexistence when he/she don't exist?
could you even imagine inexistence of yourself?
"to be or not to be, that's the question."

Sorry, but if you are ambitious then there isn't anything worth living without eternal existence.
For me living 1 year isn't different with 1000 years if my life will end with "total annihilation".

Enter my own faith.
I am not sure what I really believe but I have been clairvoyant. I have seen many things come to pass as an event that unfolded before me or an event that I had participated in, willingly or unwillingly.
My visions never really say when or how, who or what, beyond what is given to me in a dream. The visions are vague but when I examine the dream and what actually happened, it makes me feel kind of eerie and more than just a little speechless. I get my visions when my mind is pure and empty, like when I am falling asleep, or getting up for the morning. Perhaps this is when I am busy to the point I have to flush out everything but the essentials of what I am doing.
In any case, I have an event play in my head, like a dream. Something happens and I can take it with a grain of salt. But lately, I feel that I should not say, "oh, wow, okay, this happens... so what, it's just a thought, it means nothing..." especially if someone's life is in danger or there is some other risk to life, liberty and happiness. Ehsan, you can tell me that it's some form of witchcraft or that I'm taken over by demons, that since I don't follow any religion, I cannot possibly be a prophet, or have a "powers" of any kind of prophet. That is your belief, but that's not what happened to me since 2002.

I've heard lots about ones with such powers but I've never seen myself, so I can't say anything. Anyway such powers aren't enough for mankind to be replaced with religion. Also these powers are rare personal powers and aren't a solution for mankind.

I'm not a warrior in any sense, yet wars are being waged by beliefs for which some are those you believe yourself.
Jihad as Found in Judaism, Christianity and Islam
And in this sense of war, we have nothing. We have nothing because we kill in the name of God, a God that nobody sees and as far as I know doesn't even exist... in the way you believe he does. You hold on to a belief of a squirrel that can convince 10 million atheists. But the squirrel is just a myth, a superstition, a shadow of something else, like a great flood, a virgin birth or how creation happened were all myths too.

To actually be better humans, we should not be killing major groups of populations in major wars to feed the needs of a major spirit who can (reportedly) do it himself if he so chooses! If we want to survive as a civilization, we ought to know that it takes many different perspectives to make the world work! That's why the world is three dimensional to begin with! If the world was flat, then maybe a one-sided religion (or a world full of one sided religions) WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE (...we have this corner of the world, they can take that corner...)!

I've said lots about these claims before.
Anyway I can't remember when we have killed major groups of populations but I can remember when unbelievers killed major groups of populations.

saying "peace" over and over doesn't change anything coz in such a world anyone thinks to his/her benefits. things get far worse in a materialist world. You should be ready to devote your life to fight oppression, injustice, … while you aren't allowed to kill even an innocent animal and this is called "Jihad". I will send you an article describing "Jihad" someday.
Maybe some lost believer do some bad deeds but you shouldn't forget that US used atomic energy to kill over 200,000 Japanese in several hours and this doesn't show that atomic energy is bad. You can use everything in correct or wrong ways.


I was feeling atheist when i was 18. I discussed kindly with my fanatic friends in university a lot and no one killed me even no one even blamed me. I returned to my religion after several years.
However saying somethings about Islam in public media, isn't legal here but it has political roots not religious.

our leaders used to debate with unbelievers in mosque.

 

[Ehsan]

Have you ever wondered why God always chooses a book to keep his information in? If I was God, I'd just send angels down to every town to answer all the questions and heal people and all that sort.

Well, I guess there is no reason I couldn't just do that myself. I mean, we have web cams, can't God rig something up? Why a book?

If i was GOD i'd send a DVD. its capacity is further than a book.lol

 

[Ehsan]

if you have enough time,
please download this video and listen to it and say me what you think about it.
it's partly relevant to religion, literature and love.
http://www.yaghin.com/film/English.wmv

 

[SickJoke]

One of the biggest problem is that people seek scientific evidence to accept GOD. When you want to prove something with your knowledge you need to be predominant over it. At least you should be able to encompass it into your mind. But how you can encompass GOD inyo your mind to prove him.

The fact that you can't provide ANY evidence for something, is NOT a point in your favor.

He is the creator of our brain, time, space, maths, physics, nature…. and every other thing you can see or imagine.

Evolution explains the brain. Time, space, and the laws of physics were created at the beginning of the universe. The Big Bang Theory explains the beginning of the universe. There is no need to bring a god into the equation.

Is it possible for one of your books to prove existence of you for other books?

No, and it wouldn't be necessary. This is irrelevant to the existence of a god.

So our only tool to believe in GOD is our wisdom and love.

OK, I'm using my "wisdom and love" to believe in a flying teapot. Is that any evidence for the existence of a flying teapot?

I hope you understand what i mean:
"thought of not existing" is the most horrible "myth" ever because:

Myth? When an animal dies in the wilderness, it decomposes. That animal no longer exists. The same is true for EVERY LIVING THING.

How we can feel inexistence ourselves while we exist?

We can't "feel" it, but we can IMAGINE a world without us in it. This will be the world after our death.

and who can feel/think about inexistence when he/she don't exist?

When we die, we won't exist, and we won't think/feel anything.

could you even imagine inexistence of yourself?

YES! So could you. Think about it right now. After your death, the world continues, and you don't exist. Think about the billions of people who have already died, who no longer exist. That same fate is in store for all of us.

Sorry, but if you are ambitious then there isn't anything worth living without eternal existence.

That isn't evidence for an after life, that's WISHFUL THINKING. Just because it's COMFORTING, doesn't make it TRUE.

Anyway I can't remember when we have killed major groups of populations but I can remember when unbelievers killed major groups of populations.

Unbelievable. Have you ever taken a history course? The Crusades lasted for 600 YEARS. That's 600 years of torture and murder in the name of religion. Before that there was 500 years of Muslim conquest. You know what, here, you could use some reading yourself.

Here is a list of Muslim wars:
List of wars in the Muslim world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is an explanation of the Crusades. At the end of the page, you can find more links to other religious wars:
Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jackinwa]

Thanks Jack,
I had decided to end this discussion coz it's very hard for me to continue according to my bad English.
First, I appreciate your kind way of discussing. Because being generous shows that one has many things(whether material or spiritual) and doesn't fear to lose some of them.
Of course, It's very hard for me to understand your literature.
I've answered many of your questions about Genocide,…before so I only say what I haven't said before.

Your welcome, Ehsan.

However, in reading the rest of what you had come to say to what I said leaves me with one thing in mind...

You have beliefs that dictate you to see the world in a certain way. I say the same thing. In those beliefs we have, we cannot agree to a specific belief except to say "I agree to disagree."

...except there is a part of me that cannot agree to disagree. I know (almost) too much to just keep quiet.

Every one of us should find a way to stop the killing before it's too late. I do feel that there might come a time when someone, somewhere says "I don't care how it turns out, I'm going to release the bomb, because I am Holy and I will go to God and all of my enemies will not." (CAN YOU SEE HOW DISFUNCTIONAL THIS IS?!) And then I don't know what will happen next, probably a full scale war with no punches pulled.

Anyway, since you raised the atom bombs used to end the war in 1945, let me be clear: America had no right to use the bombs. Japan already surrendered before the bomb was let off. The US was trying to prove superiority over Russia. The US was trying to show them how "big" our, well, dick was to Russia. An inconceivable war crime, to be sure.

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because we, as a nation, did everything we could to provoke them and ignored their warnings when they were coming to attack us. Of course, we cried fowl when they did attack us.

In a certain sense, Japan did nothing wrong. They were irritated by us and when they attacked us we totally went overboard by using... in a certain sense... a flame thrower to kill an ant... AFTER the ant turned around and started walking away when it discovered ant poison.

Tell me, Ehsan. If someone kept pushing you and pushing you... and pushing you... and pushing you again that you'd grow so tired of the pushing you'd actually hit that person over the head with something? Don't apologize, that is human nature. Maybe the "pushing" is American behavior... Sadly, there are those of us that only approve of someone with white skin and has "no accent" and those who are different should go away. Sad but true.

Remember what I said about the nonsense of a flat earth? It's also nonsense for your brothers and sisters, your aunts and uncles, your children and your parents... to just disappear by the will of Americans who want your land because of the oil underneath it.

So, because I know this, that it might not stop, there might be nothing any of us can do to prevent the next onset of war. All I can say is stay away from large populations and hope for the best.

Weeks ago, I found this website that can calculate what a nuke would look like on the globe today. It gives estimates on how far the radioactive burns appear around from the targeted site. It gives a variety of bombs for you to compare how far the spread can go. There is even an option called "asteroid impact" which uses no atomic energy, but by the sheer force and size of a rock to hit earth, burns of some sort can be felt from Japan to France.

Ground Zero | Carlos Labs

Now given how small and pathetic our bombs are to something that can come from nature, reportedly 65 million years ago, do you think we would be better served by one another to avoid a mass extinction? To work together to discover what it is out there that can harm any of us... all of us... just because?

Why use, in a certain sense, a flame thrower on an ant when all you need is a mild deterrent. Poison, if it keeps the ant away, is all that is needed.

Talking about the acceptance of all faiths is the deterrent I'm looking for. And it should be practiced by everyone, not a select few.

I am simply doing this because I don't want Iran to be in the same place Japan was in World War II. When that happens it's not going to be pretty.

Now excuse me, while I e-mail this note, what I wrote, to Barack Hussein Obama, America's current president... neither I, nor you, Ehsan, should be made to die in vain because someone out there doesn't like me or you, sending a dirty bomb or a missile into the city that I or you live in.

 

[SickJoke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxGMqKCcN6A

If it says no longer available, just click it again. Embed might not be working.

 

[Ehsan]

Your welcome, Ehsan.

However, in reading the rest of what you had come to say to what I said leaves me with one thing in mind...

You have beliefs that dictate you to see the world in a certain way. I say the same thing. In those beliefs we have, we cannot agree to a specific belief except to say "I agree to disagree."

...except there is a part of me that cannot agree to disagree. I know (almost) too much to just keep quiet.

Every one of us should find a way to stop the killing before it's too late. I do feel that there might come a time when someone, somewhere says "I don't care how it turns out, I'm going to release the bomb, because I am Holy and I will go to God and all of my enemies will not." (CAN YOU SEE HOW DISFUNCTIONAL THIS IS?!) And then I don't know what will happen next, probably a full scale war with no punches pulled.

Anyway, since you raised the atom bombs used to end the war in 1945, let me be clear: America had no right to use the bombs. Japan already surrendered before the bomb was let off. The US was trying to prove superiority over Russia. The US was trying to show them how "big" our, well, dick was to Russia. An inconceivable war crime, to be sure.

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because we, as a nation, did everything we could to provoke them and ignored their warnings when they were coming to attack us. Of course, we cried fowl when they did attack us.

In a certain sense, Japan did nothing wrong. They were irritated by us and when they attacked us we totally went overboard by using... in a certain sense... a flame thrower to kill an ant... AFTER the ant turned around and started walking away when it discovered ant poison.

Tell me, Ehsan. If someone kept pushing you and pushing you... and pushing you... and pushing you again that you'd grow so tired of the pushing you'd actually hit that person over the head with something? Don't apologize, that is human nature. Maybe the "pushing" is American behavior... Sadly, there are those of us that only approve of someone with white skin and has "no accent" and those who are different should go away. Sad but true.

Remember what I said about the nonsense of a flat earth? It's also nonsense for your brothers and sisters, your aunts and uncles, your children and your parents... to just disappear by the will of Americans who want your land because of the oil underneath it.

So, because I know this, that it might not stop, there might be nothing any of us can do to prevent the next onset of war. All I can say is stay away from large populations and hope for the best.

Weeks ago, I found this website that can calculate what a nuke would look like on the globe today. It gives estimates on how far the radioactive burns appear around from the targeted site. It gives a variety of bombs for you to compare how far the spread can go. There is even an option called "asteroid impact" which uses no atomic energy, but by the sheer force and size of a rock to hit earth, burns of some sort can be felt from Japan to France.

Ground Zero | Carlos Labs

Now given how small and pathetic our bombs are to something that can come from nature, reportedly 65 million years ago, do you think we would be better served by one another to avoid a mass extinction? To work together to discover what it is out there that can harm any of us... all of us... just because?

Why use, in a certain sense, a flame thrower on an ant when all you need is a mild deterrent. Poison, if it keeps the ant away, is all that is needed.

Talking about the acceptance of all faiths is the deterrent I'm looking for. And it should be practiced by everyone, not a select few.

I am simply doing this because I don't want Iran to be in the same place Japan was in World War II. When that happens it's not going to be pretty.

Now excuse me, while I e-mail this note, what I wrote, to Barack Hussein Obama, America's current president... neither I, nor you, Ehsan, should be made to die in vain because someone out there doesn't like me or you, sending a dirty bomb or a missile into the city that I or you live in.

thanks Jack,
I should say you're honest about everything you said and there isn't any remaining problem to speak about.

anyway let me repeat something. we have never been in a war to kill innocent peoples. here is the only place in the world where mass killing and mass destructing is religiously prohibited.
all the wars in Islam history have been only ordinary wars and any any any mass killing of innocents never took place in Islam history.
all that wars were only ordinary wars which over hundreds of them were taking place all over the world in that age.
we never started a genocide and we never end any war with genocide and we never revenge any genocide with genocide.

Saddam Hussein attacked Iran about 20 years ago without any reason. he started a deadly war which killed about 0.5 millions of Iraqis and Iranians with the aid of Soviet, France, China ,... he even used chemical bombs to kill many of innocent Iranians. but after Saddam now we are best friends. this is our religion.
Quran(3:31)
"say: if you love GOD, then follow me, GOD will love you and forgive you your faults, and GOD is forgiving, merciful "

 

[SickJoke]

Can you provide one good reason to believe in your god? Before you answer, please read this quote by Richard Dawkins:

"You happened to have been brought up in the [Muslim] faith. You know what it's like not to believe in a particular faith because you're not a [Christian], you're not a Hindu. Why aren't you a Hindu? Because you happen to have been brought up in [your country], not in India. If you had been brought up in India, you'd have been a Hindu. If you had been brought up in Denmark in the time of the Vikings, you'd be believing in Wotan and Thor. If you had been brought up in Classical Greece, you'd be believing in Zeus. If you were brought up in Central Africa, you'd be believing in the Great Juju on the mountain. There's no particular reason to pick the [Muslim] god, except by the sheerest accident you happened to have been brought up in [your country]."

I patiently wait your response

 

[jackinwa]

YouTube - Richard Dawkins: An atheist's call to arms

If it says no longer available, just click it again. Embed might not be working.

Or you could double-click and triple-click on the youtube.com box until it opens the same youtube.com video in a new window, copy that youtube.com address and enter it into keepvid.com to download and keep the video to watch later...

Thanks SickJoke, I'm going to really have to check this out. At least for the idea that everything has a purpose, such as me being here in this forum, I think I need to watch the video... maybe there is something at work above.

...like I'd know, though I'd like to know, if you know what I mean. I'm the last person to know that, oh, life has been discovered on another planet. Or Employee X got fired or somesuch.

I'm enjoying learning/talking about SA (or in my case, AS, as in Asperger's Syndrome) with all of you all... but it's all relative, based upon my own perspective, the only really perspective I have ever truly known... so, I'm saying I can relate.

Ahh, balance. *sigh*

It's always been an absolute mystery to me and I don't know I'll discover the solution until I long since passed on... "Ooohhh, so THAT is why I was clairvoyant!" but anyway, It's worth learning, remembering and repeating aloud... provided that nobody is listening.

Boy now, wouldn't THAT be awkward, repeating that whole monologue of Richard Dawkins and everyone at work HEARS YOU. Feh. I'm glad I'm not that person.

...not that there's anything wrong with talking aloud. I do it all the time... especially when nobody can hear me. But anything I've ever said to myself would never go as long as Richard's speech does... That would take a bit more memory than my wee ol' head can stand, I think...

But anyway, thanks again, SickJoke.

-Jack in WA

 

[SickJoke]

Or you could double-click and triple-click on the youtube.com box until it opens the same youtube.com video in a new window, copy that youtube.com address and enter it into keepvid.com to download and keep the video to watch later...

True, good point.

Boy now, wouldn't THAT be awkward, repeating that whole monologue of Richard Dawkins and everyone at work HEARS YOU.

I think you'd be doing a great justice for humanity if you did that You'd be spreading the truth! Then again, if your boss is highly religious, it might have some bad consequences