What RELIGION are you?

[Ehsan]

Anti-American psychotic delusions. Here you go, start reading:
Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics

How about some more examples of the horrors of religion?

The Crusades continued from the 11th all the way to the end of 17th century.

Female genital mutilation, honor killings, terrorist attacks, suicide cults, and ethnic cleansings still occur TO THIS DAY and are all either directly influenced by religion or it is a factor.

All of this because some people place extra importance on their special book of fairy tales.

is this a delusion too:
Mossad - The Israeli Connection To 911
this doesn't mean that i'm anti-American. I love many of Americans and many of my friends are now in u.s.

when GOD chose Mohammad as a prophet Arabs had used to bury alive their girls coz girls couldn't participate in battles and continue their descendant so girls were a shame for Arab tribes.
our prophet first abolished this manner.
religions usually respect women a lot but not because of their body.

things you are speaking about are very rare these days. I live in middle east but i never heard about male/female genital mutilation or honor killings in my country.
at least ten thousands of my countrymen have been killed in terrorist bombing by deviated political and armed parties over last 30 years while you accuse religion for terrorist attacks.

 

[SickJoke]

Our societies are all shaped to some degree by religion

True, and our societies have progressed, and yet religion still preaches the same nonsense from 2000 years ago.

And if it is truly so evolutionary deterministic, then you have little reason to even be arguing against religion which can only be an extension of the 'programming' people already have

Little reason? How about the horrible deeds done in the name of religion? How about the truth? We have science now. It's time to move on and forget about our ancient fairy tales.

when GOD chose Mohammad as a prophet Arabs had used to bury alive their girls coz girls couldn't participate in battles and continue their descendant so girls were a shame for Arab tribes.
our prophet first abolished this manner.
religions usually respect women a lot but not because of their body.

I could give you similar fairy tales about Zeus, or Thor, or the great Ju-Ju of the mountain. What makes you think your fairy tale is true?

things you are speaking about are very rare these days. I live in middle east but i never heard about male/female genital mutilation or honor killings in my country.
at least ten thousands of my countrymen have been killed in terrorist bombing by deviated political and armed parties over last 30 years while you accuse religion for terrorist attacks.

You've never heard of genital mutilation or honor killings in the name of religion? That's amazing, because it's happening every day.

 

[Ehsan]

I could give you similar fairy tales about Zeus, or Thor, or the great Ju-Ju of the mountain. What makes you think your fairy tale is true?

why do you think that everything is just delusion or fairy tale?

We have science now

ok, but how many atheist great scientist do you know? what about Einstein?
is there any great scientist promoting atheism?

You've never heard of genital mutilation or honor killings in the name of religion? That's amazing, because it's happening every day.

look at this page:
http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/AGP.Net/Components/documentViewer/Download.aspxnz?DocumentID=33522
who does these crimes in the name of religion?
why are you so pessimistic about religion?

 

[Thelema]

Religion is just enabling a few crazy people to do what they want. Religion lets you pick and choose out of a book what you want to believe is true, so it isn't hard to get a bunch of people to believe whatever you want. If these crazy Muslims grew up in to a Shinto family, we'd be talking about the murdering Shintoists and say, because obviously nobody knows anything about being Muslim or Shinto,..."well, that Shinto religion is all about violence"

You CAN'T find a religion where there aren't extreme people following it and distorting it in to prejudice and violence. Picking on Muslims just shows you know absolutely nothing and are lost.

 

[bleach]

If these crazy Muslims grew up in to a Shinto family, we'd be talking about the murdering Shintoists and say, because obviously nobody knows anything about being Muslim or Shinto,..."well, that Shinto religion is all about violence"

Err, Shinto was the state religion of the Japanese Empire, which in the 20th c. committed atrocities as heinous as any in history. Afterward, Shinto as practiced by the state did indeed come under criticism--Shinto (and indeed religion in general) has greatly faded from Japanese life since 1945. Too bad so many Muslim countries are going backwards and not forwards.

You CAN'T find a religion where there aren't extreme people following it and distorting it in to prejudice and violence. Picking on Muslims just shows you know absolutely nothing and are lost.

Didn't you say you have never read the Qur'an?

Holy war has always been part of the religion and the Prophet Mohammad was a warlord and conqueror in his own lifetime. Right or wrong, it is very easy to justify violence with a framework like that..

 

[jackinwa]

Heh, not only do I see that you're from Olympia, it seems as though you think like Mike Malloy does. Have you ever heard of him? He is not a shock jock per se on the radio. His radio program is more to enlighten and inform (perhaps) than to entertain... shock jocks to me are Howard Stern or Rush Limbaugh.

Anyway, this forum is interesting. Hopefully I can meet someone offline. Or maybe not, maybe just develop "natural socialization skills," maybe... just as long as I don't become attached to another forum...

-Jack in WA

 

[jackinwa]

Oh yes, the religion I have...

I'm more of a spiritual pagan or just a non-believer... maybe not an athiest, per se, because I do believe in the "Universal Balance," karma and all that. I just further saw religion for what it is when I saw Zeitgeist for the first time a few years ago. It was shocking at first. As I played around with what I learned from Zeitgeist by using Google... well, I now see mainstream religion in any faith as a fraud.

But it's OKAY if you are a devout Christian/Jew/Muslim... However, I cannot see the point.

Maybe the creator of Zeitgeist has an ulterior motive (gosh, who doesn't have an ulterior motive???) for politics or something that is against my own political beliefs (I voted for Obama, I feel he wanted to vote for Ron Paul), but that's what happens in a "Democracy," though I know we have not been a true Democracy for at least 75 years... if ever.

Oh well.

-Jack in WA

 

[bleach]

True, and our societies have progressed, and yet religion still preaches the same nonsense from 2000 years ago.

Any religion that has survived 2000 years has been through numerous revisions to stay relevant with changing societies, count on it. There is a whole plurality of Christian religions and beliefs, even the oldest of which preaches somewhat different nonsense than the nonsense they preached even 500 years ago.

Little reason? How about the horrible deeds done in the name of religion? How about the truth? We have science now. It's time to move on and forget about our ancient fairy tales.

Science does not fulfill the same role as religion.
You are thinking the creation stories of religion are the reason they exist when this is simply untrue, because many modern believers also believe in evolution.
Three main roles of religion: give common people a base of spirituality to get them through their lives, give society a common code of ethics and identity, give the ruling powers a psychology manipulation device.
You can't get any of those from science. You can get all of them from many practical philosophies, though.

I could give you similar fairy tales about Zeus, or Thor, or the great Ju-Ju of the mountain. What makes you think your fairy tale is true?

'The truth never stands in the way of a good story..' I've learned plenty about life and the world from fiction, including some stories about Zeus and Thor. You're just closing your mind with your hard-headed arrogance.

 

[Thelema]

Err, Shinto was the state religion of the Japanese Empire, which in the 20th c. committed atrocities as heinous as any in history. Afterward, Shinto as practiced by the state did indeed come under criticism--Shinto (and indeed religion in general) has greatly faded from Japanese life since 1945. Too bad so many Muslim countries are going backwards and not forwards.



Didn't you say you have never read the Qur'an?

Holy war has always been part of the religion and the Prophet Mohammad was a warlord and conqueror in his own lifetime. Right or wrong, it is very easy to justify violence with a framework like that..

I just picked Shinto because (most) people know nothing about it (including me). Every major religion has committed all sorts of horrible things. Picking on a single religion as evil and violent is wrong. Evil people are evil whether they're Muslim or anything else.

But the Bible has stories upon stories of Jewish conquest. Jews fought hard to survive for thousands of years...You'd think God would give his chosen people an easier ride.

Lots of conquerors were religious people.

 

[Nervous]

Like with guns, religion doesn't kill people. It is the people who practice it that kill others.

 

[Ehsan]

Err, Shinto was the state religion of the Japanese Empire, which in the 20th c. committed atrocities as heinous as any in history. Afterward, Shinto as practiced by the state did indeed come under criticism--Shinto (and indeed religion in general) has greatly faded from Japanese life since 1945. Too bad so many Muslim countries are going backwards and not forwards.

don't mix divine religions(islam,christianity,judaism,...) with man-made ones.
could you please name some of Muslim's committed atrocities.

Didn't you say you have never read the Qur'an?

Holy war has always been part of the religion and the Prophet Mohammad was a warlord and conqueror in his own lifetime. Right or wrong, it is very easy to justify violence with a framework like that..

there are different verses about war in Quran but majority of them are related to happenings of a special time when unbelievers were killing and plundering muslims but Quran's general view about war is something simillar to this:

Quran(2-109)
And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

 

[Rodox]

don't mix divine religions(islam,christianity,judaism,...) with man-made ones.


[/B]

How do we tell which one is divine and which one isnt?

 

[Ehsan]

How do we tell which one is divine and which one isnt?

i haven't any straight answer but i think there are some criteria:
1- all the divine religions have similar bases and some common features.
2- every human has a divine soul so he/she can diagnose it.
3- miracles of prophets.

i only guess so.

 

[SickJoke]

why do you think that everything is just delusion or fairy tale?

Religion is a delusion. It comes from a book of fairy tales.

ok, but how many atheist great scientist do you know? what about Einstein?
is there any great scientist promoting atheism?

Einstein saw the idea of a "personal god" as ridiculous and improbable. He had a vague spirituality about the vastness of the universe. How about some other great atheist scientists? Charles Darwin, Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking, three of the greatest scientists of all time. And there are many, many more.

---

Religion is just enabling a few crazy people to do what they want. Religion lets you pick and choose out of a book what you want to believe is true, so it isn't hard to get a bunch of people to believe whatever you want.

That's one of the reasons why religion is dangerous.

If these crazy Muslims grew up in to a Shinto family, we'd be talking about the murdering Shintoists and say, because obviously nobody knows anything about being Muslim or Shinto,..."well, that Shinto religion is all about violence"

What do you mean nobody knows anything about Muslim or Shinto? The Muslim "holy" book, the Qur'an, is FILLED with horrible stories of genocide, honor killings, and other horrible acts.

You CAN'T find a religion where there aren't extreme people following it and distorting it in to prejudice and violence.

I'm against all religion.

Picking on Muslims just shows you know absolutely nothing and are lost.

Picking on Muslims = "you know nothing and are lost." Hmm, with logic like that, it's no wonder you're defending religion.

---

Any religion that has survived 2000 years has been through numerous revisions to stay relevant with changing societies, count on it. There is a whole plurality of Christian religions and beliefs, even the oldest of which preaches somewhat different nonsense than the nonsense they preached even 500 years ago.

They're all interpreting the same books of nonsense from 2000 years ago! All of Christianity is based on Jesus Christ being incarnation of god. Some Christians say "Oh, I don't believe that story about the talking snake. Most of the bible is just metaphorical stories." Well guess what, Jesus is just a character in those stories. Jesus is a character in a 2000 year old fairy tale. That hasn't changed in 2000 years.

Science does not fulfill the same role as religion.

For rational people, science is enough.

You are thinking the creation stories of religion are the reason they exist when this is simply untrue,

That's one reason.

because many modern believers also believe in evolution.

Guess what they believed in before evolution? Adam and Eve! And a lots of people still believe in Adam and Eve, amazing isn't it? The fact is: science is gaining ground, and religion is losing ground.

Three main roles of religion: give common people a base of spirituality to get them through their lives,

Just because it's comforting, doesn't make it true. Atheists get through their lives without having to believe in fairy tales.

give society a common code of ethics and identity,

A nation can have a code of ethics and identity without religion. Sweden is one of the most secularized countries in the world, and their crime rate is much lower than the U.S.

give the ruling powers a psychology manipulation device.

'The truth never stands in the way of a good story..' I've learned plenty about life and the world from fiction, including some stories about Zeus and Thor.

And do you believe those stories are true? Of course not! You weren't reading them for the purpose of religion. Sure, there are great works of fiction. That doesn't give any points to religion.

You're just closing your mind with your hard-headed arrogance.

My mind is wide open to EVIDENCE. I base my opinions on evidence, not blind faith.

---

Every major religion has committed all sorts of horrible things. Picking on a single religion as evil and violent is wrong.

I'm picking on all religion.

Evil people are evil whether they're Muslim or anything else.

“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things
and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things,
that takes religion.” -Weinberg

---

don't mix divine religions(islam,christianity,judaism,...) with man-made ones.

Guess what? They're all man made!

i haven't any straight answer but i think there are some criteria:
1- all the divine religions have similar bases and some common features.

What makes you think that those religions are divine and others aren't? If you were born in a different part of the world or at a different time, you would be believing in Zeus or Thor, or the Sun God, or the Great Ju-Ju- of the Mountain.

2- every human has a divine soul so he/she can diagnose it.

There is no evidence for such souls.

3- miracles of prophets.

The miracles are stories in a book of fairy tales.

 

[jackinwa]

could you please name some of Muslim's committed atrocities.

Saudi Arabia butchers people in public... beheadings and the like.

Is that good enough for you?

Dhimmi Watch: How one Brit survived Saudi Arabia's "chop-chop square"

That was the only specific case that I could find in Google. The rest of the links there seemed to only casually reference cruelty in Saudi Arabia. A first-hand account of what happens, though, when someone is "thought" of being a criminal, where he happens to be, in fact, a journalist is an interesting read... or to at least skim over.

I think more people in Saudi Arabia have anxieties, just because people were killed in front them on a routine basis. I could not understand a government that would do that to the people.

And I thought Bush was bad!

-Jack in WA

 

[Ehsan]

Einstein saw the idea of a "personal god" as ridiculous and improbable. He had a vague spirituality about the vastness of the universe.
Charles Darwin, Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking, three of the greatest scientists of all time. And there are many, many more.

Einstein:
I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.


Darwin:
i had never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God, and that generally “an Agonist would be the more correct description of my state of mind.


My previous question still remains unanswered:
is there any great scientist promoting atheism?
is there any great bestselling book promoting atheism?

The Muslim "holy" book, the Qur'an, is FILLED with horrible stories of genocide, honor killings, and other horrible acts.

What do you know about Quran?
Quran(2-109)
And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

Could you please mention one verse in Quran that approves genocide?

Maybe you have a newer version of Quran.

They're all interpreting the same books of nonsense from 2000 years ago! All of Christianity is based on Jesus Christ being incarnation of god. Some Christians say "Oh, I don't believe that story about the talking snake. Most of the bible is just metaphorical stories." Well guess what, Jesus is just a character in those stories. Jesus is a character in a 2000 year old fairy tale. That hasn't changed in 2000 years.

Jesus is only God's prophet.
"Jesus Christ being incarnation of god" is invented by some lost followers afterwards and is harshly attacked in Quran.

For rational people, science is enough.

Excuse me, but this is the biggest lie I ever heard.
I have some very little question in 21 century:

Where is the end of space?
You are free to ask everyone and to collect all scientists of the world to answer it.
Best answers:
1)it is infinite, so it goes on beyond the scope of human comprehension.
2) no one knows

Another one
When did time start?
And this is a quick response from your favorite atheist scientist Stephen Hawking:
whatever was prior to the Big Bang will never be known because not belonging to our universe.

It's one of the best words I ever heard from scientists:
My knowledge grew until I finally found "I don't know anything"

Atheists get through their lives without having to believe in fairy tales.

They don't believe in their theories themselves.
how one could be happy while every second he/she gets closer to "forever inexistence".
"to be or not to be, that's the question"

My mind is wide open to EVIDENCE. I base my opinions on evidence, not blind faith.

"Blind faith" sucks. But when you haven't enough evidences you can say "I am not sure" in place of "these are only fairy tales"

There is no evidence for such souls.

Mankind has been seeking eternity all the times while he/she is made of chemical substances. Is there any eternal substanse?

The miracles are stories in a book of fairy tales.

There are millions of ancient and modern fictions. Why they aint so popular?

 

[Ehsan]

Saudi Arabia butchers people in public... beheadings and the like.

Is that good enough for you?

Dhimmi Watch: How one Brit survived Saudi Arabia's "chop-chop square"

That was the only specific case that I could find in Google. The rest of the links there seemed to only casually reference cruelty in Saudi Arabia. A first-hand account of what happens, though, when someone is "thought" of being a criminal, where he happens to be, in fact, a journalist is an interesting read... or to at least skim over.

I think more people in Saudi Arabia have anxieties, just because people were killed in front them on a routine basis. I could not understand a government that would do that to the people.

And I thought Bush was bad!

-Jack in WA

first, ask yourself why you didn't find any other link in google.
in my country people who commit horrible crimes(for example who has commited 10 homicides) are executed with hanging in public. also this is very rare and nothing brutal or fearful.
anyway, i haven't heard anything about that.
meanwhile saudi arabia, Qatar, UAE, Kuwait,Jordan,Bahrain,... have least crime rates in the world. and i'm sure that anyone isn't anxious here in middle east except for millions of peoples in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine where hundreds of them are killed everyday.
maybe there are millions of anxious peoples in Hiroshima and Nagasaki too.::

 

[SickJoke]

Einstein:
I'm not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.

That's exactly why religion is nonsense. Religion claims to know the truth when in fact it is based on books of fairy tales.

Darwin:
i had never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God, and that generally “an Agonist would be the more correct description of my state of mind.

He was an agnostic atheist. He didn't believe in god, but didn't claim to know 100% that god does not exist.

My previous question still remains unanswered:
is there any great scientist promoting atheism?
is there any great bestselling book promoting atheism?

Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion
Sam Harris - The End of Faith
Christopher Hitchens - God is Not Great
Daniel Dennett - Breaking the Spell

What do you know about Quran?
Quran(2-109)
And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

Could you please mention one verse in Quran that approves genocide?

Maybe you have a newer version of Quran.

The Qur'an:
"Sura (2:191-193) And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith."

Sura (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Sura (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Sura (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Sura (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"

Sura (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Sura (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Sura (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Sura (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

Sura (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."

Sura (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of

Sura (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Sura (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"

Sura (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Sura (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Sura (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Sura (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Sura (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."

Sura (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

And it goes on, and on, and on.

Jesus is only God's prophet.
"Jesus Christ being incarnation of god" is invented by some lost followers afterwards and is harshly attacked in Quran.

It's just another false belief, just like yours.

Excuse me, but this is the biggest lie I ever heard.
I have some very little question in 21 century:

Where is the end of space?

You are free to ask everyone and to collect all scientists of the world to answer it.
Best answers:
1)it is infinite, so it goes on beyond the scope of human comprehension.
2) no one knows

And religion has that answer? No. Religion could never answer that. Science is working on it.

Another one
When did time start?
And this is a quick response from your favorite atheist scientist Stephen Hawking:
whatever was prior to the Big Bang will never be known because not belonging to our universe.

It's one of the best words I ever heard from scientists:
My knowledge grew until I finally found "I don't know anything"

The difference is this: science is humble, and it continues to make steady progress. Religion is arrogant and makes bogus claims based on no evidence whatsoever.

They don't believe in their theories themselves.

What?

how one could be happy while every second he/she gets closer to "forever inexistence".

Welcome to reality. Just because something is COMFORTING, doesn't make it TRUE. People say "There must be a god, there has to be!" simply because (a)they've been conditioned to believe in religion, and (b)death, the thought of not existing, is terrifying to most people.

"Blind faith" sucks. But when you haven't enough evidences you can say "I am not sure" in place of "these are only fairy tales"

Do you take that same attitude? No, you believe your religion is true. Based on what? It's a book of stories written 2000 years ago. Before that, similar stories, and completely contradictory stories, have been written for the same purpose. It was mankind trying to explain things. Now we have science. We know that those stories were only fiction, and we have science to explain things.

There are millions of ancient and modern fictions. Why they aint so popular?

They were popular when they existed. In ancient Greece, people believed in Zeus and Apollo and Ares. That was their religion. Everyone today knows that those were just fairy tales. Now we're hanging on to a 2000-year-old set of fairy tales. Hopefully soon everyone will come to their senses about the Abrahamic religions, just as we did about the ancient Greek gods, and every single other religion of the past.

 

[Ehsan]

That's exactly why religion is nonsense. Religion claims to know the truth when in fact it is based on books of fairy tales.
He was an agnostic atheist. He didn't believe in god, but didn't claim to know 100% that god does not exist.

Think, why they rejected being called "atheist".

Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion
Sam Harris - The End of Faith
Christopher Hitchens - God is Not Great
Daniel Dennett - Breaking the Spell

But these are too few compared to religious ones. at least hundreds of thousands ones only in my language.
There are millions of churches, mosques, … promoting for religion and millions of people who have devoted themselves for religion. Anything for atheism?

The Qur'an:
"Sura (2:191-193) And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith."

Sura (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Sura (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Sura (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Sura (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"

Sura (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Sura (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Sura (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Sura (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

Sura (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."

Sura (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of

Sura (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Sura (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"

Sura (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Sura (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Sura (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Sura (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Sura (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."

Sura (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

And it goes on, and on, and on.

I had said it before:
there are differnet verses about war in Quran but majority of them are related to happenings of a special time when unbelivers were killing and plundering muslims to disappear Islam. i recommend you to read following article through. though there are many mistakes within it but i selected it coz it isn't written by muslims:
Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
it explains why muslims were obliged to fight with unbelievers. You should search history through to find out who is cruel and who is oppressed.
Could you please enlighten me why ruwanda's survivors turned to Islam after a massive horrible genocide with over 300000 killed innocents ten years ago?
Where were so-calld humanists that time?
Rwanda Turns to Islam After Genocide

And religion has that answer? No. Religion could never answer that. Science is working on it.
The difference is this: science is humble, and it continues to make steady progress. Religion is arrogant and makes bogus claims based on no evidence whatsoever.

You didn't get it. These questions havn't any answer because their answer are beyond time/space. We need someone who isn't imprisoned in time and space to answer them. Surely creature of time/space can answer it. There is something incomplete with all of our knowledge.
Don’t count on science to save you.


Where is the wisdom
we have lost in knowledge?
Where is the knowledge
we have lost in information?
from The Rock
by T.S. Eliot (1934)

Welcome to reality. Just because something is COMFORTING, doesn't make it TRUE

1)Being a believer, you don't lose anything in life(comforting) and also in afterlife.
But
Being an unbeliever you lose everything in life and also in afterlife.
Choose yourself.
2)when one seeks something, those things surely exist(maybe we have lost them). we can't seek something that nobody haven't seen. So when you seek eternity it surely exists.
Atheism claims that we will all vanish someday and it's a bitter reality.
I'm sorry for this way of thinking.

Do you take that same attitude? No, you believe your religion is true. Based on what? It's a book of stories written 2000 years ago. Before that, similar stories, and completely contradictory stories, have been written for the same purpose. It was mankind trying to explain things. Now we have science. We know that those stories were only fiction, and we have science to explain things. They were popular when they existed. In ancient Greece, people believed in Zeus and Apollo and Ares. That was their religion. Everyone today knows that those were just fairy tales. Now we're hanging on to a 2000-year-old set of fairy tales. Hopefully soon everyone will come to their senses about the Abrahamic religions, just as we did about the ancient Greek gods.

But fairy tales and fictions only last for several years not for 2000 years. We have millions of scientists in our country but their faith in religion becomes stronger each day.

once one of my friends said me, you may invite others to your beliefs only if you have something interesting to share.
What has an atheist to share?:
Despair? Grief? doubt?

Could you please draw a world without any religion?
Is it something further than a modern jungle?

 

[SickJoke]

Think, why they rejected being called "atheist".

Einstein and Darwin were VERY CRITICAL of organized religion. They were atheist in regards to religion, but they did not make the claim to know that god does not exist, because no one can prove or disprove the existence of god. The same is true for flying teapots or unicorns. We can't prove unicorns don't exist, but there is no evidence to believe that they do exist, the same is true for any gods.

But these are too few compared to religious ones. at least hundreds of thousands ones only in my language.
There are millions of churches, mosques, … promoting for religion and millions of people who have devoted themselves for religion. Anything for atheism?

How many people once believed the world was flat? How many people once believed that human sacrifice would appease the gods? You asked if there were scientists or bestselling books that promote atheism, and I provided them to you. There is an atheist movement happening. Science is advancing and religion is losing ground.

I had said it before:
there are differnet verses about war in Quran but majority of them are related to happenings of a special time when unbelivers were killing and plundering muslims to disappear Islam.

You asked for examples in the Qur'an that condone genocide and honor killing, and I PROVIDED THEM TO YOU. Those verses are being used as justification for suicide bombing and other horrible acts TO THIS VERY DAY.

You didn't get it. These questions havn't any answer because their answer are beyond time/space. We need someone who isn't imprisoned in time and space to answer them. Surely creature of time/space can answer it. There is something incomplete with all of our knowledge.

Your holy book was written by human beings. The holy books have made claims about the universe which have already been PROVEN FALSE by HUMAN SCIENCE. The "holy" books are inaccurate. Science is constantly gaining ground, and religion is losing ground.

Don’t count on science to save you.

FROM WHAT?

1)Being a believer, you don't lose anything in life(comforting) and also in afterlife.

You lose out on the TRUTH. Science is opening doors to understanding reality, religion is trying to slam those doors shut.

But
Being an unbeliever you lose everything in life and also in afterlife.
Choose yourself.

When we die, our brains decompose along with the rest of our body. Anything more than that is pure speculation, superstition, and blind faith.

2)when one seeks something, those things surely exist(maybe we have lost them).

OK, I'm seeking a flying teapot. Surely it exists?

we can't seek something that nobody haven't seen.

Really? I've just created in my mind, a Drolahuramonearpoeloaefienus Monster. I could dedicate the rest of my life to seeking a Drolahuramonearpoeloaefienus Monster, that doesn't mean it exists.

Atheism claims that we will all vanish someday and it's a bitter reality.
I'm sorry for this way of thinking.

Yes, when we die, we cease to exist. Anything other than that is pure speculation, superstition, and blind faith. I'm sorry that you can't accept reality.

But fairy tales and fictions only last for several years not for 2000 years.

Previous religions have lasted just as long and longer.

We have millions of scientists in our country but their faith in religion becomes stronger each day.

We have millions of people in the world who are waking up and realizing that religion is complete bullshit.

once one of my friends said me, you may invite others to your beliefs only if you have something interesting to share.
What has an atheist to share?:
Despair? Grief? doubt?

THE TRUTH.

Could you please draw a world without any religion?
Is it something further than a modern jungle?

It is the world we live in right now, minus the delusion of religion.