Spirituality through SA?

upndwn

Well-known member
Yeah, there is a huge irony here: if you start talking about Spirituality with people, they can often think you are very religious, which could hardly be further from the truth; and no matter what you say, you are frustratingly wrongly pigeonholed:eek:

Many religions use spirituality as the basis of their doctrine. While they can easily exist in conjunction, spirituality does not necessarily have to have a religious implication.
 

mmmm

Well-known member
I have had the "experience". It happened only once and lasted no more than five minutes but I will treasure it for the rest of my life because I now know, not believe, know, that there is a lot more to life than the five senses.
 

Lostinthemusic

Well-known member
I don't understand why you titled the thread what you did. Are you saying that by having social anxiety, it has helped your spiritual awareness? That your fears have helped you become in tune with the divine? :confused:

My SA led me to the practice of meditation about a year ago. I was just coming in to a house with people who I had mostly never met before and I knew I needed something to help calm me down. Unfortunately I never felt comfortable discussing that with them because I wanted to appear normal. Didn't want to shake the boat.
That, of course, just made it worse. I went pretty much the whole year never knowing If I could be comfortable around them. Then about a month or two ago when I was feeling particularly lost I had an experience around people that was very complicated but I will try to explain.
I was sitting on couch and everyone else was playing a RPG strategy game. I was feeling anxious so I decided to form my hands into the shape I did when meditating. Instantly, and I mean instantly, someone mentioned the word "guardian angel" and the room looked as if it was flashing. I had been looking into the subject earlier. The person who said it in particular was flashing gold. I was afraid to look. When I finally did I started to hear the voices of everyone in my head. It was as if I was speaking to their spirits directly, their higher selves, and the physical them didn't know it. But then I felt as if the game they were playing was real life. I was some sort of pillar (A golden buddha statue in the videogame) and I had to stay alive, but I couldn't. I started to see white energy everywhere and it felt incredible, but I was still scared. I realized I was going to die. I remember just before I did I visualized a virtual reality mask coming off of my face. I heard the words (roughly) "Why are you scared? Its just a game. Life is just a game". I almost let go, which I now think would have been the death of my ego, but I asked "what about my family?" and I came right back. But I was still in the state I had been in before and I still felt like if I didn't stay active I would die.
There were several points in which I heard voices distinct from my own and those in the room commenting on what I was doing. Twice I was told that if I let go, myself and everyone there would be sent into a better reality, but we all had to die first.
Not me kill them, just die. I want to make that clear.
At one point I touched what I believed to be my guardian angel and felt an amazing beautiful energy run through my arm. But then it was gone.
There were many other things that happened too which aren't so clear anymore. I was directed towards a piece of paper which I used to write some jumbled things which included "Kyle and I are one" "water is God" then "everything is God". I remember trying to count to ten with deep breaths several times. When I was writing, the light level from one light kept changing. It was just bare bulb. Then, as quickly as it started it was over when someone asked if I wanted to watch a movie. The movie was an episode of "Game of Thrones" which had a ton of spiritual references and deaths.
That is about as much as I can remember of the event at the time being. To answer your question, yes SA had led me to discover spirituality as it is the reason I started meditating.
I have not been able to explain this to anyone in person yet without stuttering and not being able to end up finishing the story. Everyone also automatically discounts the story when I mention that there was substances used. But I emphasize, No Psychedelics! I do consider them a window into true reality, but I have never used them myself.
I'm not sure what else to say right now so I'll just post again if I need to.

If anyone wants to recount their own story please do. I would be fascinated by, and love to hear them.
 

Lostinthemusic

Well-known member
Now my belief is simply of the how, the way, technically my beliefs relate very well to daoism. It's that way of balance and of nature's flow, interconnectedness and patterns that I believe in. The closer you live to these the more at peace and centered you become.
Also do believe in energy, living things as energy, and energy release upon death.
and that everything is a piece, and microcosm, of everything in all (rational) ways. Every piece is a microcosm, every thing as a piece.

Love this. I watched a talk on Buddhism yesterday (It's on netflix, just "Buddism" I think, lecture series) and it talked about energy as everything. Essentially all matter is just energy with a slowed vibration. There are no smallest sub-atomic particles because eventually you just get to energy and at that point you aren't even looking at a physical thing. So everything you see is energy no different from you except in form. Everything functions differently, but essentially it is the same. Everything is One.
 

Nanita

Well-known member
If you don't mind me asking, why discriminating against the established religions?

I don´t discriminate religions. I simply say that I´m not fond of them.
If you call that discrimination, I could call what you wrote to me discriminating my opinion

This is actually going to be asking about how much knowledge do you have about all of the established religions?

I don´t need to have a lot of knowledge of all religions to decide that I don´t really like religion.

I´m not against religion as a collectively shared belief.
I´m against religion as a social institution which is dependent upon material and economic realities in society.
 
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upndwn

Well-known member
Nanita wait please.. just to make this clear, I would never mean any offense or disrespect to anybody. I think English is not your first language, neither is it mine, so it could just be a bad choice of words.. if there is really something bad about the word "discriminate" then I didn't know about it. I just thought it is OK if it is used alone, and wasn't being associated with another word that has some negative implications (something as in saying "racial discrimination") and I thought it would just mean "to distinguish".



I would agree with you if you mean that you are against the misuse of religion in lucrative activities as a means to gain cheap benefits from it.

I would also go with this saying of Pascal "There are two kinds of people one can call reasonable: those who serve God with all their heart because they know him, and those who seek him with all their heart because they do not know him."

If you would also agree on that, Religion - on the contrary - is basically the source that presents you with quite intricate system of belief and way of life, but most importantly, it provides you with knowledge of God, the Source of Peace and Perfection.. the knowledge one have to seek and acquire prior even to judge about its trueness.

I respectfully disagree. You do not need to have any prior knowledge to believe in or acknowledge the presence of God. Religion makes people feel safe because it gives them a context to concepts that are otherwise highly intangible. To me no book or person could ever teach me anything about God. God is beyond the realm of our physical perceptions, this is where spirituality comes in, and how one goes about pursuing it is a highly personal journey that each and everyone of us has to discover by ourselves. Some find their spiritual awakening within the realms of established religions, others like myself would rather find our own path to enlightenment without the ramifications posed by an established religion or teaching.
 

upndwn

Well-known member
You are basically saying that you would learn everything about God by skipping reading His Book (words) and/or listening to His messengers?

That is all that I'm saying, you may not believe the Book is authentic and/or the messengers are honest, but how would you know that without examining things first? That is all that I'm saying.

Neither you would be converted just by learning about some religion, nor anyone can force you to convert, still people wouldn't learn. And I wonder why. What is exactly what they are afraid of?

Pascal says: "Men despise religion. They hate it and are afraid it may be true." I'm not fond of Pascal by the way, but I have to agree to some of the man's sayings.

I was forced to read the bible when I was at preschool and I have also read it since as part of my personal studies into spirituality and philosophy. But you do not have to read the bible to understand Christianity, there is no way you can avoid learning about Christianity and the bible when you live in Western society, it is so highly integrated in our culture through centuries of indoctrination and submission.

I know many people that are spiritualists, but not religious. To say that they are afraid of religion is kind of insulting. They know very well what religion has to offer, some of them have even been devoted Christians for a while. They choose another path for their spiritual needs. Why they did so I do not know, but every man has the right to choose his own path in life.

I am personally not religious so when I say God I mean it as a spiritual concept not in a biblical sense. To me God is the universal force that connects everything together not a bearded guy in the sky.

I do not want to let this thread escalate into a theological debate. The thread is about spirituality and how your SA affects your spiritual beliefs and experiences so please let us keep to that subject.

I leave you with this quote which pretty much sums up my thoughts about the bible and God, take it as you will.

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
Douglas Adams
 
I strongly believe that there is something between earth and sky, i just need some guiding in life and haven't found the right path yet.
 

upndwn

Well-known member
To get this thread back on track I thought I would share some of my spiritual experiences.

When I was around 13 or 14 I started to have out of body experiences when I slept. At first they scared the crap out of me, but in time I learned to relax and even control it. I would enter a meditative state between sleep and awakening. At first I would feel an intense serenity and a warm glow. It was as if I was feeling and experiencing colors instead of just seeing them. At first when my astral body left my physical body it literally felt like my soul was being ripped out of my body, and upon seeing my lifeless body staring up at me, I thought I was experiencing my death. During this period it happened maybe once or twice every week. One night I found that I could "move" my astral body around. I could travel freely through walls and I could see my mother and sister sleeping in their bedrooms. After a while I got used to these experiencing and learnt to invoke them by meditating upon them before I went to bed.

When I was about seventeen I couldn't invoke them anymore, nothing special would happen when I meditated upon it. I have had a few involuntary experiences since, but not as vivid or controlled as those in the past. I have been thinking a lot about what really happened. Did I really get out of my body and fly around like a ghost or was it just some sort of hallucination brought out by teenage angst and hormones? I know one thing, and that is that the experience felt highly spiritual in nature I could sense and experience the world in ways I have never done before. It was as if I was made of light and I could sense the pathways that made everything connected.

Sometimes when i meditate I will "leave" my body and my mind becomes separated from the physical world almost as if I isolate it in a glass bubble. I can still sense my surroundings, but everything becomes slightly muffled and hazy. I will get a profound sense of floating. My body will be so relaxed that I almost can't feel it. All my thoughts becomes clear and I feel more focused. When I release myself from the trance I will feel extremely relaxed and my mind will still be clear and focused. Tension and anxiety will almost be gone, but unfortunately they quickly return.

I sometimes get a glorious sensation when listening to music, as if the notes enter your mind and allow you to see a glimpse of God. This usually only happens when I'm alone, relaxed and open myself up to experience the music. The music will put me in a trance like state allowing me to get these sensations.

Certain days I can feel a connection between everything, as if I am seeing a pattern in everything. It can be as simple as a common theme in everything from conversations, to news headlines, radio songs or tv shows. I get a real sense that nothing is truly random and even our thoughts and actions eventually leads to some predicted outcome even though we may never see or understand what that may be. During these days I am also more prone to having Deja Vu, and my perception seems much clearer.
 

upndwn

Well-known member
Well, I deliberately haven't even declared what I believe in in this thread for the sake of keeping it, as you pointed out, from being escalated into a theological debate.

Though I welcome anyone who wants to discuss any subjects of religious nature to write me through PM.

I sent you a PM.
 

JonnyD

Well-known member
well actually i'm quite surprised by the fact there are so many religious/spiritual people here...

if my problem did anything, it was to make me stray away from religion, or maybe religion made my problem worst...

i live in brazil in a small town, for those who dont know, brazil is mostly catholic, well i was raised and taught catholic religion, in the process i was exposed to church and all the social environment it is, being a small town everyone knows each other, and being in a small town seems to make people mids small, so church here is mostly a way to show off what you have, to gossip, to exclude some minority until tv teaches you shouldnt...

today i pass my religion "teachers" and i see them for what they really are, and i dont like it...

though my experience is with church not religion...

i myself am an agnostic, i'm a firm believer that i dont know squat and i will never know, but i actually don't think religions is inheritly bad or good, but i strongly disagree with inducing fear, secluding people, and religion based governments because this things are hipocratical method for people to use religion for their own agendas...

also i'm more inclined toward agreeing with john lennon, when he sings that society without religion would be better, because it would be one less excuse for people to kill each other, religious based moral are weak. people will always find a excuse though...
 
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Nanita

Well-known member
@ upndwn;Thanks for sharing. I loved reading it, it´s profound!!
I´ve had similar experiences (out of body) as a child, until I was 13, since then I haven´t had such strong experiences.
 

upndwn

Well-known member
I was let down by treating SA through spirituality. I forever prayed to be cured but...didn't work.

Have you tried meditation or self-hypnotism? It works really well for me at least. Prayer only really works if you have a strong faith in who or what you pray to. If you don't believe in the prayer it will have about the same effect as thinking really hard about something IMO.

@Nanita; You are welcome :)
 

AGR

Well-known member
I was raised catholic,every saturday I went to catolic school,read the bible,did some activities with other kids,the ambient was great,sunday there was mass,I dont know what did it but I grew out of it,I just started questioning things I guess,no one ever gave me a good reason to believe in something again,they just point to their books,which supposedly proves itself without questioning,it doesnt look that Godly to me,I am sorry if God wanted me to believe,if he wanted to leave something which proves his existence or at least points to it, it should have been something better,not something which for me looks like totally came out the mind of a man.
 

coyote

Well-known member
if i had to categorize my spiritual beliefs

they would most likely fall under the label "taoism"
 

MollyBeGood

Well-known member
I sometimes think being forced into religion at a young age may have been the catalyst and completely caused me to become socially withdrawn and not trust people.
 
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