Social Anxiety: Are We Victims or Creators?

[satstrn]

I was hoping to get some thoughts on "social anxiety" as you see it. It seems that the majority of people here view themselves as victims of a "disease" or "disorder" (there are a lot of posts along the lines of "if i didnt have SA, then this or that would be different). Yet I have heard many people describe social anxiety as being largely self-inflicted and created by ourselves as a result of negative experiences during childhood or adolescence. That our "symptoms" are less the result of a "disease" and more the result of our set of beliefs and attitudes about social situations, talking to strangers, etc. There was one especially interesting article I read which talked about how human beings subconsciously try to validate their beliefs, and twist their perception of their experience to fit those beliefs. So, people with positive beliefs about themselves will twist their experiences to fit the belief that they are likeable/attractive, and people who have negative beliefs about themselves will twist their experiences to fit the belief that they are flawed/unattractive/unlikeable. The guy went on to say that people with social anxiety are essentially twisting their experiences on a subconscious level to validate very negative beliefs about themselves and others. This way of thinking implies a much greater sense of control over the condition, whereas viewing it as more of a disease implies much less control and invites outside help such as medication. How do you view social anxiety?

 

[Porto]

My opinion is that there is no White or Black answer to that. However if it's, don't clears the fact of the feelings of anxiety, depression or panic. Healthy mental problems are to complex. Can be result most of everything that our brain capts! So we can be both, victim or creators, victim and creators at the same time. No one really knows how brain works, the proof of that is the mistakes and the feelings we have time after time even when we know that they don't represent danger. Maybe we are just a reaction, victim of what our brain creats as fear or not. So we are both.

 

[Flowers-Of-Bloom]

Um, yeah, that's what SA is pretty much. I don't know how you could think of it any other way. It all starts on the subconscious level where we have learned faulty thinking patterns and anxiety is simply the reaction our body has to our jacked up thought process. It does not, however, mean we have greater control over our condition. I can't control my thoughts and I certainly can't control my subconscious, even a little bit (have you ever tried?). SA is mostly a learned condition, as are most personality disorders and many other neurotic disorders. There can, of course, be other factors that come into play (genetics/how the brain is wired) but I don't want to get into that.

So, to answer the question: We are not creators of our condition because SA is the result of environmental and genetic factors which we have very little to no say in (we can't choose our parents or how we were raised). So we are victims of our own thought process.

 

[BlueDays]

It makes me angry when people suggest that SA is "self-inflicted". The thought that anyone would create a problem for themselves that ruins their life to me is just ridiculous.
If I had control over this I certainly would not have voluntarily "allowed" it to systematically destroy my life as it has for the past 30 years! If it were as simple as this guy suggests no one would have SA for very long. It is not that simple.

 

[MikeyC]

It makes me angry when people suggest that SA is "self-inflicted". The thought that anyone would create a problem for themselves that ruins their life to me is just ridiculous.
If I had control over this I certainly would not have voluntarily "allowed" it to systematically destroy my life as it has for the past 30 years! If it were as simple as this guy suggests no one would have SA for very long. It is not that simple.

Great post, and I agree. If I wasn't so anxious around intimacy, I would've already had sex by now. It's not like I'm avoiding it by choice.

 

[Kiwong]

I think I am both a victim and creator. My thoughts create my own reality, which has unfortunatlely been influenced by the unkindness of others. There is no control over this it becomes an almost instinctive pattern of behaviour.

 

[guyonthecouch]

I don't think SA is a disease that you can catch or be born with, its just a term that describes a group of certain personality traits that can be caused by X Y or Z. However, when we read posts or talk to somone with "SA", we can relate and have personality traits in common. (which is nice) And we find that the human brain develops a certain way if it is faced with certain situations. So "SA" is just a way of describing that way of development... just how aragchnophobiacs are insecure around spiders, we are insecure in social situations and thats just the name we googled to get to where we are now/ And it's a good place(the forum)

 

[guyonthecouch]

It is what it is...if you want to name it, go ahead...

 

[JustWannaLove]

I think I am both a victim and creator. My thoughts create my own reality, which has unfortunatlely been influenced by the unkindness of others. There is no control over this it becomes an almost instinctive pattern of behaviour.

I agree with this post.
My SA has developed from past experiences, to the point where now everything i do is surrounded around it. But i know that i could try and change it, but there is that fear in me and i choose to shelter myself instead and stay secure (plus other times i have tried to confront my fears, i have just felt worse/worsened my situation). it's this kind of state of mind that makes me both a creator and victim.

But SA can be for many different reasons. everyone experiences it for different unique reasons, so you can't really generalise it i guess.

 

[Diend]

I view it as a quirk in my personality. From a young age, I notice myself wanting other people's sympathy. I want others to know that "I've been dealt an unfair hand so...please notice me". It's almost like a sort of "hero's sign for attention".

So in college, I've acted inappropriately in class just so that I could give off the aura that "there's something wrong with me, so notice me for the weirdo that I am!".

Gee, it sounds shameful admitting, but...it's such an ingrained part of my personality that it can easily go unquestioned.

 

[satstrn]

It all starts on the subconscious level where we have learned faulty thinking patterns and anxiety is simply the reaction our body has to our jacked up thought process. It does not, however, mean we have greater control over our condition. I can't control my thoughts and I certainly can't control my subconscious, even a little bit (have you ever tried?)

I guess I see it a bit differently. You really don't think you have control over your thoughts? I think that while we can't control the subconscious messages our brain sends, we can develop control over our conscious mind and figure out how our subconscious mind works through observation. For example, if I walk into a crowded room, my subconscious will immediately begin to send warning signs. The fact that I can recognize what my subconscious mind is doing implies control over my thoughts. Whether I end up submitting to those thoughts or rejecting them, I have still noticed them and recognized them as automatic thoughts. This is the gist of cognitive behavioral therapy. Heres a quote I found:

"[In cognitive behavioral therapy], people with social anxiety learn to catch their automatic negative thoughts and then make them rationally neutral. As they find this process easier, they begin to catch more of their automatic negative thinking. This, in turn, leads to consciously turning this negative thinking into rational neutral thinking. Then, this neutral thinking is gradually moved up, always in a step-by-step manner, to a more realistic level, so that with time and repetition, the person’s thinking moves slowly upward and becomes more realistic. At first, this is a conscious process, but the more it is practiced and repeated, the more it becomes an automatic process."

So he is saying that the conscious mind is able to control and ultimately change the subconscious thoughts. CBT revolves around putting oneself in anxiety producing situations in order to observe the subconscious and learn to control one's conscious reactions to it. I think most people with SA have more control than they think. Just my 2 cents.

 

[gustavofring]

I agree with satstrn and the guy from [cognitive behavioral therapy].

I strongly believe it has to do with upbringing as well as things like neuropathways, Once a person is caught in a circle of not seeing many people, thinking negatively about himself or others, or generally being depressed, the neuropathways in the brain for the abilty to be social slowly diminish or get caught in negative thinking.

It takes time to rebuild that and it generally helps to get out there again. Just like when you learn to draw. If you haven't drawn in a while, your drawing skills become a bit rusty and you need daily practice to get back at your old level. In the case of SA we have to fight years of bad experiences and conditioning in our minds.

 

[Flowers-Of-Bloom]

So he is saying that the conscious mind is able to control and ultimately change the subconscious thoughts. CBT revolves around putting oneself in anxiety producing situations in order to observe the subconscious and learn to control one's conscious reactions to it. I think most people with SA have more control than they think. Just my 2 cents.

Yes, controlling our thoughts is something we have to learn through CBT. It is very difficult though and takes practice. But I didn't say it was impossible. I've done CBT before but I'm so fixed to my set of beliefs (about people and about myself) that I have to dig deeper before I can change anything.

 

[guyonthecouch]

what happens if you get to control SA and you can be in a social enviroment, and actually be calm, BUT it is not a pleasent thing at all? what if all that controling seems like too much work?

 

[cowboyup]

I was hoping to get some thoughts on "social anxiety" as you see it. It seems that the majority of people here view themselves as victims of a "disease" or "disorder"

I don't like to label myself as a victim of anything. I don't like to (solely) blame childhood, parents, environment either.

I think perhaps it's internal thought process that is screwed up - at least for me it is. For example, I have been able to successfully go out in public and interact with strangers, and have fun. But within the past year, I have lost my job, had to move in with my brother and care for my 3 year old nephew - in my screwed up view, I can't seem to calm myself down to think clearly to get my life together if that makes sense. Well in that sense, it is environmental I suppose.

Let me add that my mother passed away suddenly without warning, thus leaving me to care for my underage sister, moving to a different state, selling all my belongings, my sister having to move from her school (high school) and her friends.....I could say more, but I won't bore ya!

When someone invites me to go someplace, dinner, movie, etc. I freak out thinking of all the things that could go wrong that I create my own hell - and continually look at the clock (say if it's at 3 pm for ex.) and think if only....or all those what if's creep in. I know I sound stupid, and if I get the moxy to push myself to go, I end up doing relatively ok.

Problem is most times I flake out and scare myself into NOT going.
then I get mad at myself for being a jerk, an idiot and acting like such.

we all can say something that has happened in our past, whether it be childhood, our parents or other relatives or something else has happened in the past, and it is very easy to blame or partially blame some incident or person for (at least my) shortcomings.
Fact is, for me anyhow, I know where my challenges are, if that makes sense. I know this DOES NOT apply to everyone, this is just my account.

 

[satstrn]

Cowboy up-

Wow, that must be an unbelievable amount to take in. I am very sorry to hear about all of that. Sometimes life can be so cruel in reminding you how little control you really have over it. I guess in life we have to be 100% responsible for the things we can control because there is so much we have no say in. My point in starting this thread was to suggest that social anxiety is something we really have complete control over, though it is very difficult to master. In any situation I think we have to look at what we can control and what we cant. In your case, while you probably can't control feelings of grief or despair from losing a loved one and a job, you can control the way you manage it. You can keep trying to get out there or you can let it consume you and perhaps turn to drugs/alcohol or become avoidant. In the same sense, we have no control over what others will say or think, but we can learn to control our own thoughts and responses to that. We can keep avoiding social situations or we can keep putting ourselves into them. I think on some deep level we have chosen to give up our control over our thoughts and become avoidant because it is easier and more comfortable for us (I know some people will take offense to this , but I really do believe it to be true). We are powerless to control losing loved ones or getting laid off, but in control of our belief patterns and thoughts IN RESPONSE THOSE THINGS. In the same sense we are powerless to what other people think of us because we have no say in it, but empowered in our own thoughts and responses. It is hard to see because those belief patterns have become so entrenched and automatic as to seem impossible to change, but I think we really do have the power to control them with courage and discipline. I didn't really articulate that well, but I hope everyone understands what I am trying to get at.