rejected before a relationship even starts

[JamesSmith]

can you seriously blame them for having dislike toward women? im not gonna lie i have an intense annoyance toward women.
its true that some guys are just pushovers, have no confidence, and need constant reassurance to do anything...no girl wants that and thats totally understandable. but COME ON. women love guys that are complete *******s who have money. its the sad truth, and they will never admit it. girls will say all day that they want a nice guy....but its exactly the opposite is true. makes no sense. im not saying that because im angry, its because i am aware of the truth.
i no longer get irritated with them. i just stopped trying. i am not exactly james bond but i am not an idiot either. there were times i got treated like **** and i didnt deserve it at all. i asked a girl out once and then got laughed at. just because a man is a little introverted and has a quiet way does that mean he deserves that kind of treatment? a simple no would suffice.
guys get treated like the OP just did on repeated occasions and then they develop a dislike for women. you get constant wishy washy behavior and rejection from them like that and then if you complain about it women just fire back and blame the guy for it...saying its the guys fault. what a vicious cycle.
im not hating on all women. i have met some really good ones. but finding one that is valuable to me is like finding a needle in a haystack.

and OP dont worry about it. i met about 20 girls from online and they all turned out to be stuck up.

Eh, now this comment above is an over-generalization. Why do so many shy guys have this ridiculous idea that so many women want pricks? Most women want nice guys, they aren't lying about that, and the proof of this is when you look at the millions of nice guys who are married or have g/fs. Think about it, why would a woman want a man to treat her like dirt? They don't.

I can't argue with the fact that many women are attracted to money, many women prefer not to be with a bum that can't help put food on the table and a roof over her head. But in today's society, things are so much different than they were 50 years ago, women are way more independent and ambitious with working jobs and they don't need a guy who has a ton of money, so the assumption that women need a rich guy is far from the truth. As long as you have a steady full time job that is usually good enough.

I get what you are saying about how women easily blow off guys and reject them at the drop of a dime, but let's not forget that can go both ways. Guys do that all the time as well.

As for getting laughed at when you ask out a girl, that's not just you who gets laughed at. There are outgoing guys that ask tons of girls out, and I bet you they've been laughed at more than you have. That's the big risk you take by asking a girl out. I will say guys laugh at women who ask them out too, which once again goes both ways, it's just we notice when women laugh at men mainly because it's usually the men that are doing the asking out cuz men usually make the first move.

The only thing that you have I semi-agree with is the women tossing men away without much thought and moving on to the next guy. Women have more options than men because there will always be a guy that wants to get with her and a woman doesn't need to work at all really to get that man cuz men will come to her, so yeah, she has the option to just toss you away and move on the next guy she feels is more compatible with her. Men do this to women as well, but more women do this than men do. You've got a point there and i see the how that makes you angry, i find that annoying too.

I just plain don't believe that you met 20 girls online and they were all stuck up. It sounds like you are expecting perfection from these women and will be disappointed every time because no human being is perfect. Think about this way, do you have faults? Yeah, everyone does. So you have to expect that the women you talk to will have faults.

 

[lurknomore]

The only thing that you have I semi-agree with is the women tossing men away without much thought and moving on to the next guy. Women have more options than men because there will always be a guy that wants to get with her and a woman doesn't need to work at all really to get that man cuz men will come to her, so yeah, she has the option to just toss you away and move on the next guy she feels is more compatible with her.

I have to disagree with this. Men don't just "come" to me, and if there have always been men that want to get with me, they don't make it known. I know this is because I don't work at all on trying to get someone (I don't even know how). So to say that a woman doesn't have to work to get a man is false.

 

[JamesSmith]

I have to disagree with this. Men don't just "come" to me, and if there have always been men that want to get with me, they don't make it known. I know this is because I don't work at all on trying to get someone (I don't even know how). So to say that a woman doesn't have to work to get a man is false.

How often do you go out? That's the whole story right there, if you never go out then of course men will never come up to you. Also, do you do online dating?

What I was saying is women don't have to make as much effort as men because all they have to do is show up at a bar or club and don't have to say anything and men will just come up to you. Women don't have to conquer the fear of walking up to a guy and asking him out. Statistically, women are alone relationship-wise less than men because the assertiveness role is placed on men most of the time to start the conversation that begins relationships. Yes, I respect that shy women are afraid to go to public places such as a bar and that could be a task in itself, but think about what a shy guy has to do. Not only does he have to conquer his fear of getting to the bar, he has to then conquer his fear of actually walking up to a girl and starting a conversation. It's way easier to just show up than to show up and initiate conversation.

 

[JamesSmith]

I think it's very difficult to make these claims without actually experiencing the stuggles both males and females have. Being a male you obviously know very well the difficulties that males in your situation face, but woman have different difficulties that may not be as easy for you to observe as a male. You can use statistics to say woman are alone less blah blah blah, but that doesn't measure difficulty or hardship they have to go through. And it's really not some sort of comparative competition to say who has it worse anyway, we all have trouble and trying to say one type of person has it worse than another accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Look I'm sorry if i offended you but I have my right to express my opinion. I originally wrote what I did because I was expressing my opinion on what some guy was saying, and I have a right to agree with him. You can't tell me I can't agree or disagree with someone's opinion on here. I'm sure shy women do have struggles, and that can't be fun.

 

[lurknomore]

How often do you go out? That's the whole story right there, if you never go out then of course men will never come up to you. Also, do you do online dating?

What I was saying is women don't have to make as much effort as men because all they have to do is show up at a bar or club and don't have to say anything and men will just come up to you. Women don't have to conquer the fear of walking up to a guy and asking him out. Statistically, women are alone relationship-wise less than men because the assertiveness role is placed on men most of the time to start the conversation that begins relationships. Yes, I respect that shy women are afraid to go to public places such as a bar and that could be a task in itself, but think about what a shy guy has to do. Not only does he have to conquer his fear of getting to the bar, he has to then conquer his fear of actually walking up to a girl and starting a conversation. It's way easier to just show up than to show up and initiate conversation.

I don't go out, because I would never go to any of those kinds of places alone and I don't have friends to go with. But I have been to clubs on a few occasions with my sisters, and I wasn't approached by anyone, so just the fact of being there doesn't guarantee anything for women. I do understand what you're saying, I was just disagreeing with your wording that basically said that women don't have to do anything to get men.

 

[JamesSmith]

I do understand what you're saying, I was just disagreeing with your wording that basically said that women don't have to do anything to get men.

Then you misunderstood what I was saying. Women do have to do something to get men, they have to either go out to places or do online dating. You're right, you do have to do something to get men. My argument was that you don't have to as much as men do to get women. You're right, my wording was originally incorrect, I did originally say you don't have to work at all which is not the case. My apologies about that, that was my mistake.

 

[Felgen]

Maybe it is the type of girl you go after? It is quite tiresome how it always comes back to this "women have it easier" thing.

I have never participated in that infamous pissing contest before, so I wouldn't know what's tiresome.

Like I said: BOTH men and women are affected by what the media thinks. If Paris Hilton instead of acting like a bimbo started acting like a librarian and the media told us THIS was attractive, people would think it was. If the media portrayed the wannabe gangsters as the lowest scum of the earth; even lower than the nerds who played Dungeons & Dragons, then people would think they were. Individualists are few and far between.

 

[Pookah]

I have never participated in that infamous pissing contest before, so I wouldn't know what's tiresome.

Like I said: BOTH men and women are affected by what the media thinks. If Paris Hilton instead of acting like a bimbo started acting like a librarian and the media told us THIS was attractive, people would think it was. If the media portrayed the wannabe gangsters as the lowest scum of the earth; even lower than the nerds who played Dungeons & Dragons, then people would think they were. Individualists are few and far between.

I wasn't really directing at you, just the direction of the thread in general. The media does skew what society views as attractive. Models for instance are an unrealistic ideal for both men and women.

 

[A friend]

I think the need for love may be a by-product of the media and what we all learned from our upbringings. But then again, I don't know that for sure...

 

[Minty]

Actually, in both men and women, the media plays a large part of the role. Because wannabe gangsters, drama queens from reality shows, Justin Bieber and wealthy socialites are considered attractive by the tabloids and MTV, people think they're attractive. In other words: The media took over where natural selection stopped.

If someone accepts a date with you, they're attracted to you in the first place. This attraction can fade quickly if you don't play your cards right.

Maybe. I'd just like to say, in real life, I have never met a girl who is attracted to any of the things you've listed. Honestly, if I went to a club and men threw themselves at my feet but all of them were Justin Biebers or wannabe gangsters or people who only value money, I would leave alone. I'm not the only woman who is this way.

Nerds are not depicted as attractive by the media, quite the opposite, but a lot of nerds are dating other nerds. Being a nerd doesn't stop you from dating just because society deems you as "unattractive". Feeling worthless does. That's just one example.

 

[JamesSmith]

I agree with Minty, it's not all about media controlling people's minds. We aren't monkeys doing monkey see, monkey do. Women are attracted to what they attracted to, and so are men, we all have different preferences.

As for the nerd thing, it's overrated that nerds supposively never get women because nerds get women all of the time, but when you compare nerdy-looking guys to jock-looking guys, the nerdy guys aren't as appealing if you survey a bunch of women. Appearance matters, and when you look nerdy your success rate with women can be lower when you are looking at large numbers of women. It's even worse if you are overweight. Appearance can matter is what I'm saying.

 

[Felgen]

I agree with Minty, it's not all about media controlling people's minds. We aren't monkeys doing monkey see, monkey do. Women are attracted to what they attracted to, and so are men, we all have different preferences.

As for the nerd thing, it's overrated that nerds supposively never get women because nerds get women all of the time, but when you compare nerdy-looking guys to jock-looking guys, the nerdy guys aren't as appealing if you survey a bunch of women. Appearance matters, and when you look nerdy your success rate with women can be lower when you are looking at large numbers of women. It's even worse if you are overweight. Appearance can matter is what I'm saying.

Monkey see monkey do is exactly what most of humanity is and that goes for chimps, dogs or any other pack animals as well.

The fact that appearance matters is pretty obvious. Having said that, I still remember high and middle school. Many guys who weren't good looking, intelligent and strong (and thus shouldn't appeal to anyone's Darwinian mindsets) still got laid just because they were "cool", socially skilled and dressed like the gangstas from MTV--and they were often chosen before genetically superior specimens (if we look at it very cynically).

 

[Kiwong]

As I said there are some men who get very angry at women for not dating them. And I don't agree with that. They also get angry at anyone who suggest they hold a mirror up to themselves to see if there are reasons why. How is being angry at the world, and angry at women going to win anyones's heart?

I imagine that for social anxiety sufferers the difficulties of dating and relationships do not begin and end at the stage of being approached for a date. I have seen several posters on here both male and female who are regularly shown romatic interest but are too scared to reciprocate their feelings. How does being approached constantly for date make life easier if you find relating to people fearful? It creates its own problems.

 

[Felgen]

As I said there are some men who get very angry at women for not dating them. And I don't agree with that. They also get angry at anyone who suggest they hold a mirror up to themselves to see if there are reasons why. How is being angry at the world, and angry at women going to win anyones's heart?

I imagine that for social anxiety sufferers the difficulties of dating and relationships do not begin and end at the stage of being approached for a date. I have seen several posters on here both male and female who are regularly shown romatic interest but are too scared to reciprocate their feelings. How does being approached constantly for date make life easier if you find relating to people fearful? It creates its own problems.

I think everyone can agree that a woman who has social anxiety has it a lot harder in the dating department than a woman who's just shy.

 

[JamesSmith]

Monkey see monkey do is exactly what most of humanity is and that goes for chimps, dogs or any other pack animals as well.

The fact that appearance matters is pretty obvious. Having said that, I still remember high and middle school. Many guys who weren't good looking, intelligent and strong (and thus shouldn't appeal to anyone's Darwinian mindsets) still got laid just because they were "cool", socially skilled and dressed like the gangstas from MTV--and they were often chosen before genetically superior specimens (if we look at it very cynically).

I guess we disagree on the monkey argument, that's fine.

Those guys that got the girls when the guys weren't good-looking, intelligent, or strong, those guys got women for one reason: because they were socially skilled. If you look at the big picture, it doesn't matter what you dress like or look like if you are socially skilled because you can talk your way into relationships. So you are right, the men that have the most success are the ones who talk. I'm not debating that fact.

 

[Liam17]

I'v given up on women and looking for a relationship.

 

[JamesSmith]

How does being approached constantly for date make life easier if you find relating to people fearful?

Because that's the only way to start a relationship unless you meet a friend of a friend. Think about how difficult it is to walk up to someone you don't know if you have social anxiety. That would take all the pressure off me if I knew that women would just walk up to me and start a conversation. Many guys with SAD don't have the guts to start a conversation with a woman, and with 80-90% of relationships beginning with men making the first move, where does that leave the guys don't have the courage to do make that first move? Most people agree that being approached is much easier than doing the approaching. If they didn't, there wouldn't be such a thing as fear. The more people that approach you takes the pressure off you to approach as often, which makes it easier to meet more people, which gives you more options, which makes dating easier. It gives you more choice.

 

[Felgen]

I'v given up on women and looking for a relationship.

You shouldn't give up at the age of 17.

 

[Liam17]

You shouldn't give up at the age of 17.

Well i'v never had a girlfriend so far, so i kinda give up.

I'v tried talking, asking someone out, writing them a song etc. I don't see what else i can do, i just give up.

 

[JamesSmith]

True. Social skills are the key to social success.

Looks are usually only an extra perk when you have social skills. When you don't have social skills, looks can work to your disadvantage because people will assume you're quiet because you're stuck up and elitist. That may make them dislike you more than an average-looking quiet person.

Yeah, but extremely attractive women have it different than all these people. Lets say a woman looks like Jessica Simpson. This woman won't need to say anything and will walk out of the bar after getting hit on by at least 5 different men in a matter of an hour. Social skills don't mean much when a girl is a 9 or 10 on a 1-10 scale. All a girl like that has to do is respond in english.