He-Man Woman Haters

[MotherWolff]

Yeah, I've actually made reference to both men and women having internalized misogyny in one of my replies. I really hope that you don't think any of the reasons you've given above are good reasons for hating women.

hi Serafina.

I didn't read this entire thread(I should have though, huh?), so I have probably over-looked your post.Yeah you're right, I don't think that example I gave is even a logical reason on which to hate women. I wasn't implying that it should be either. In fact women shouldn't be entirely blamed for all of the pressure imposed on a man(in a way, men kind of opressed themselves and they don't even know it).

And most women probably aren't even aware of that advantage(or any other advantages they have over men). I was simply pointing out that women really DO have advantages over men(in some aspects, certainly not every). Just like how men do have their obvious advantages over women. But I do not think it is right for the media to constantly reinforce that "women are opressed and men aren't" stereo-type again and again with their highly marketable networks(like Lifetime) and other shitty propaganda shit. Women certainly are opressed(not entirely) but men are too just as much(hell, maybe even MORE!).

 

[Danfalc]

Thank you for bringing another point of view into perspective.

Totally welcome,it's nice to have an open minded discussion!

do although believe that the lyrics reflect the pervasive misogyny in our society. Otherwise why would it sell more than let's say Will Smith's clean rap? Do you remember the rap from the late eighties and early nineties? A lot of it was all about "don't believe the hype" positivity and progression. Then NWA come into the picture and pave the way for violent gangsta rap. This is what many young boys and men aspire to be. The tough, strong guy who makes money, gets bitches and respect.

I'm a bit too young,to really talk about the rap from the 80's to early 90's,not to mention the fact I was one of those typical young (naive) boys,who looked up to Gangsta rappers and wanted the respect and to be tough ect,The older rap didn't really appeal to me at the time.But I did listen to Tupac,who in the did have a few meaningful songs.I think a lot of his song's had meaning to them such as Brenda has a baby and keep your head up.And I have briefly listened to Run DMC and stuff.

So I think I can see where your going,and it is a shame to see that most rap is about the three same things,Bling money and girls...you have to look very hard to find somthing with any meaning these days.Rappers will defend themselves saying they simply mirror society,but really most of them package to appeal and influence the kids to do stuff they never really did.Sorry if ive kind off gone off topic there!

Part of me sympathizes with him because I know what it's like to grow up with an abusive woman. There was certainly a time when I could relate to Eminem. I used to love his music but now I just can't stand the hateful and angry undertones that are prevalent in his lyrics.

Maybe In a way then you have dealt with it better than he has?Maybe Music is his way of doing it,or maybe simply again it's just somthing which sell records for him I still like Eminem myself but I think it's cool you still keep an open mind about him.

I know Fat Joe is Puerto Rican,I was just trying to point out some none black rappers seem to get a "pass",but then again I think there is a sense of black and brown pride,where Eminem is just white.As for the N*** a vs er thing,maybe its just an internet thing,But a hip hop site I go on,it's fine for me as a white person to use the word N***a but if I use it with an er I would get banned.Also Tupac makes the distinction..He complains about a prison guard using it,the lady speaking to him says but why "you use it on your records all the time" He makes the distinction between it having an er and an a,but maybe he was just covering his ass to justify it his way.

It is like a soap, isn't it? Have you heard of the latest feud with Mariah Carey? Both of them are being completely ridiculous.

I heard his songs aimed at her off his new album lol,Then I think Nick threatened to kick Em's ass and Eminem was suddenly all very polite and respectful and telling people it's just a joke.But sounds like its carried on...*grabs some popcorn*

Sorry for the long post and sorry If it doesn't make sense in some places,my head is a bit hazy today!

 

[no1]

I stick to what I say when I say that there are self-professed nice guys who don't realize what assholes they really are. I've experienced this many times.
I can say for sure that my husband is a real man and he doesn't disrespect me. He has always been a good guy the only difference between him and the other guys I've described is that he realizes that he's not all good. He never acted as though I had to give him a chance because he was such a nice guy. I could have gone for any of his asshole friends, but I went for him instead.

no1, resentment can easily turn into hatred. I know women who have probably been through worse than you (unless you've been sexually and or physically abused) but they don't constantly complain about men. They don't resent men. Most of them still go out and live their lives to the fullest possible and they still have faith in men. Actually, some of them are either married or in relationships. They of all people could complain about men as much as you complain about women, but they don't. They realize that there are plenty of great men out there.

Yea but that's a completely different story. I've gone through what could be considered sexual abuse, by a male. But a woman who has been abused could easily find a good guy, of course they dont complain all men are assholes. Why? Perhaps because they can find guys who like them. On the other hand, what about the girls who don't get anyone? What about the guys who don't get anyone? That's a different story.

It's ok Serafina. I think you're alright, because you still think there are good nice guys, and that all of them aren't bad.

 

[Danfalc]

a real man doesn't have some odd preoccupation with a car.

Huh were not alowed to like cars now? ::

 

[no1]

EXACTLY. what you wrote is exactly what i was going to say! what kind of stupid little girls is he associating with?

yes, women want a "real man". a real man doesn't consider all women promiscuous little tramps. a real man doesn't lump all women together into one false, tv-based stereotype after watching too many girls gone wild commercials. a real man knows women are not like that in reality. a real man doesn't have some odd preoccupation with a car. a real man isn't a brute who treats women like shit.

SURPRISE!

maybe women are such an enigma to you that to make yourself feel more comfortable around them you have to lump them all into a narrow little stereotype? maybe that is what your problem with women is.

Well.. first off.. I just don't like promiscuity, coming from women OR men. Though I happen to think that there are a lot or that most women think that it's ok to be promiscuous and in fact encourage it every once in a while. But for a man to be promiscuous, it's not ok.

Its like how women think guys think it's ok to be a player but not for a woman to be a whore.

 

[Danfalc]

women think that it's ok to be promiscuous and in fact encourage it every once in a while. But for a man to be promiscuous, it's not ok.

I have to jump in here,at least where I'm from,I have to say its the total opposite,In the uk any girl who is even just open minded about sex is easily labelled a slag or worse.Yet a guy humps anything which moves and he's the man.Imo..sometimes at least in my experience it's other girls who reinforce this label because they are jealous of the girl,but a lot of the time it is the guys just as much because they feel rejected,or have been rejected.In some religions,the groom expects the wife to be a virgin but her is free to sleep around as much as he likes.

Obviously I cant speak for everyone and everywhere,so maybe its different where you live.Anyway can we try and keep this calm everyone its getting a bit heated in here.

 

[no1]

Speaking of George Sodini, watch this YouTube video. The man who made this video makes a lot of sense. The last couple of minutes of the video are pretty funny, but very true.

YouTube - George Sodini: Nice Guy Gone Bad?

I wanted to comment on this.

On the video, the guy talks about how there is a lot of resources as regards as information to "attract women". First of all.. it's not like I have a whole lot of time to study this, and besides I think it shouldn't even be that hard, if one just learns how to be social.

Second of all: I have gone through many of such "popular" books that purportedly teach men how to seduce women... and I found that the majority of them pretty much teach men to be cold, arrogant snobs, or to be mean and exude the appeal of a player, to act like a player, etc. But they dont teach you how to be the type of person who is looking for a romantic relationship, as much as they tell you how to attract those types of women who are looking for no strings attached promiscuous one night stands. So who can tell me of a truly good information resources that isn't written with a mysogynist mindset or paints women in such a negative light that we have to become cold, and inhumane, and to act like a brute?

The fact is, that this image is so prevalent that now, I think the majority of this society looks up to such ideals as being 'the way'. Women expect men to be brutes, men expect women to be just like is depicted in most of this 'pick up artist' books. It sounds like they want us to be pornstars. So how can a modest person like me, who just wants to attract women naturally, non-aggressively find a woman, when most of the information out there 'teaching it how it is' actually teaches you the opposite, and only works because people, men AND women actually buy into it because of successful marketing and propaganda.

 

[Danfalc]

So who can tell me of a truly good information resources that isn't written with a mysogynist mindset or paints women in such a negative light that we have to become cold, and inhumane, and to act like a brute.

There is only so much you can learn from books,sometimes you have to put it into practise, actually go out there and do it the hard way.So in a way sometimes the only person who can teach you,is yourself.

You might also have to look at your own view of the world and people,and possibly change them before you will make any progress,just because the media paints females in a bad light doesn't mean you have to believe all females are like that.

I honestly think your the only one stopping yourself No1.

 

[iamthenra]

I'm not saying that women are not guilty of child abuse, sexual abuse or abuses against women as well as men. This fortunately does not happen often.

It happened to me, when I was a young tender boy at the age of 5, at the hands of my mother. She would continually beat me. Then I would go to school and receive more beatings by my peers... I swore I had a sign on my back that said "hit me"... My father, who was a school teacher, saw what my mother was doing, and told me that if I told anyone about my mom, that she would be put in jail and I should not say anything to anyone.... So my father chose to ignore the problem, hoping that it would go away on it's own... Well, it didn't... It changed when I became old enough to defend myself against my mother. I was 13 years old, when I had enough courage to block her punches... All the psychologists and psychiatrists have blamed my mother for my SA and depression... Sorry, I had to comment when I saw what you wrote... It just stirred up some strong emotional dirt from my past.

 

[PunkRotten]

Same, my dad and mom hit me when I was younger up until I was a teen, about the age of 14, when I was able to defend myself. I didnt tell anyone either cause I didnt want them arrested. I dont know if this caused my SA/depression it might have contributed to it. I did leave home alot and I got into drugs and hung around with bad kids, I guess this was my escapism.

 

[Cynic]

Some guys blame society and women for all their troubles. George Sodini killed women because they rejected him. Well why shouldn't they reject him if he was full of hate for women. What do these women haters have to offer?

Probably nothing.

Yes, society wants her to work so she can be "equal" with man.

Because employers can pay women less for doing the same job.

I have a relative who has been very violent towards women in our family. He despises women and thinks that women are the cause of all his troubles. Also, he regularly talks about how women are all whores/bitches and he has physically assaulted his sister as well as his grandmother and his mother. He has witnessed his father hitting his mother and his sister so he basically learned his behavior from his father. His other resentment comes from the feeling of being rejected by some of the pretty girls whom he used to have crushes on.

Most people that meet him will tell you that he is a kind, hard-working, self-less, indiviual ready to help anyone in need. In deed, he is all of these things!This man is very dear to me.

How can he be dear to you when he is such a violent misogynist abuser?

Misogyny is just like race, class, religion etc. just another tactic of creating scapegoats. Lats face it, the human race as a whole sucks. The majority of men are jerks and the majority of women are bitches. Human beings are a pretty shit bunch.

 

[NothingElseMatters]

Because employers can pay women less for doing the same job.

That was years ago.

 

[Kien]

He-man?

By the power of Greyskull!

 

[Noca]

It would be nice if insurance companies wouldn't discriminate against us men.

 

[ph650]

Not quite that simple. I'm a male and I agree with that statement. There's two types of nice guys: the weak passive doormat VS the strong self assured yet kind man. I've long fit in the 1st category and am recovering.

"Nice Guys" are ticking timebombs. They seem nice and eager to please. They overly accomodate you. They never try to contradict your opinions. etc etc. Then one day they'll be very not nice. They'll blow up out of nowhere. Such guys will say one thing "Alright ::sigh:: let's go to the mexican restaurant". They'll then be all mopey and less than happy cause hey, they really wanted italian that day.

It's happened to me. Now I'm full of fiery anger. "Nice Guy" really ****s up its practitioner.

That's typical bullshit usually coming from feminazis. They say "Nice men are not nice". This is the most ridiculous thing I hear (some) women say. It's preposterous.

There is a lot more misandry than misogyny in countries such as the US and Australia.

 

[Satine]

Two types? My partner is a third type: generally philanthropic but often exasperated by the rampant stupidity of the general public. He wouldn't want to harm anyone, but he wishes they'd all get a brain or bugger off. He's not overly accommodating to me, just treats me like a human being, which is fine by me. But he doesn't try to overdo it. He'll say so if he disagrees, or thinks I've done/said the wrong thing. And he accepts it if I do the same to him, although there'll usually be a debate over it

I should maybe add that I'm a low-maintenance type; if things don't go my way I'm happy to compromise. I suspect he wouldn't last two minutes with any woman with an entitlement complex.

 

[Remus]

ahem:

Masters of the Universe (1987)

 

[Tiercel]

I don't know too much about He-man, but I love watching those Conan movies even to this day(I like the second one the best since it seems to emphasize more on magic). But I wonder what makes you say Conan might be a woman-hater? I don't remember seeing him exhibit any kind of attributes that would consider him as such. Then again you could be referencing to other media forms of Conan, like the comic books. Now those, I have not even read(yet:.

Hello, MotherWolff. Sorry about the delay; for some reason this thread slipped under my radar for three short weeks. Concerning Conan, I absolutely love Robert E. Howard's original Conan stories. Unfortunately the movies were based more on the comics than on the original stories, although I also enjoy the movies (especially the music!). The Conan character was originally more formidable, as he had a brain as well as biceps. And if you don't have the books that Del Rey put out with all the stories, I will say that his work is public domain in Australia....

But I think Howard's writing is a product of the place and time in which he was writing. He was writing as a single white male in Texas in the 1920s-30s. So his women tend to be more of the naked, helpless type. (And as a sidenote, those researching racial sensitivity would rather enjoy his descriptions of African natives in his Solomon Kane stories.) So while Conan might not hate women, he surely does not see them as equals.

I am completely unfamiliar with He-Man, so I will spare further character critiques.