Anyone believe in guardian angels or whatever?

#23
No. A lot of people are lonely, miserable, some die horrible deaths, get awfully traumatized. Where are their guardian angels to protect them? Or do these angels decide who to save and who to leave alone? That'd be really jerkish, if you ask me.
That´s exactly what I think.
 
#24
In this century: probably. I'm pretty sure scientists will find a way to stop the aging process.
Science can find out lasers to smooth your skin for a bit when it´s getting older, but it will NEVER be able to stop the aging process and dying. Why would it also want to stop people dying with this overpopulation :eek:.
 

Flanscho

Well-known member
#26
Science can find out lasers to smooth your skin for a bit when it´s getting older, but it will NEVER be able to stop the aging process and dying. Why would it also want to stop people dying with this overpopulation :eek:.
But we already know why we age. What biological progress is causing it. And there are organisms that never die of age. It's just a matter of time until science is developed high enough to "fix" this. Not to mention that sooner or later, human consciousnesses might be transferred into artificial bodies. That would be another way to stop the aging process.

Saying "never" is somewhat odd. Would people a hundred years ago be able to imagine, that I can now talk to and see a friend of mine, despite her being able on the other side of the world?

People who said "science will never XYZ" were nearly always wrong.

How that and overpopulation would work together is a totally different question.
 

Section_31

Well-known member
#27
I believe in ghosts.
This^

There are alot of things i do believe in. Guardian angels though? Not so much. Not dismissing them exactly, just not one of the things i primarily do believe in.

That said, i do believe that sometimes members of my family speak to me, just through feelings in a situation. or they'll come to mind while im doing somthing and it will make me think about what they would say or do about my situation. Maybe its nothing and maybe its just my senses associating somthing with them. But its what i feel and it gets me through the day.

In that way maybe theyre my own mentally projected guardian angels.
 
#28
Science can find out lasers to smooth your skin for a bit when it´s getting older, but it will NEVER be able to stop the aging process and dying. Why would it also want to stop people dying with this overpopulation :eek:.
I'm not so sure. It's fairly easy in theory. If you can find a way to maintain all vital organs at such a rate that wear and tear barely occurs, you may very well delay death long enough to have those vital organs cloned and replaced.

The problem is of course the brain. The one thing that makes you you. You can't clone that because that would be a copy and not you yourself. If they manage to stagnate the degrading process- or better yet, allow the brain to self repair, you could technically stop ageing. Though, all together it would be a very involved process.

I agree that we shouldn't yet trend this, though, even if we could. There's just not enough room and resources to support all of the current population- and the generations that'll come over time. And I also think that the current population deserves attention. Like you said, a lot of people die and suffer today.

If all is relatively well in the future, and we could practically efficient colonize other planets, and could ask a few billion people to bugger off to Mars or something, then it'd be a different story.
 

Silatuyok

Well-known member
#29
I don't believe in anything supernatural, but I guess I do tend to use fate as a way to cope with daily life. For instance, I choose to see that things always turn out for the best, so if something happens in a way that disappoints me, I just say that it "wasn't meant to be."
 
#30
But we already know why we age. What biological progress is causing it. And there are organisms that never die of age. It's just a matter of time until science is developed high enough to "fix" this. Not to mention that sooner or later, human consciousnesses might be transferred into artificial bodies. That would be another way to stop the aging process.

Saying "never" is somewhat odd. Would people a hundred years ago be able to imagine, that I can now talk to and see a friend of mine, despite her being able on the other side of the world?

People who said "science will never XYZ" were nearly always wrong.

How that and overpopulation would work together is a totally different question.
Flanscho, science has achieved amazing things on one hand, but seems to be totally clueless on the other, regarding things like curing ilnesses. If you go to some medical bookshop, there are thick books covering every single ilness to absurd deatil, how it works, what happens in the body etc. But, almost never it knows what caused the disease, or how to cure it! At most they suggest some palliative measures like pills, which will only make it more bearable. If human body was just a purely material machine, it would be easy to repair it. Every repairman could do it. So how come scientists don´t know how to cure ilnesses? And how are they supposed to find a way to stop aging and dying, if they can´t even cure diseases? And how come that even with science and advanced civilization, this world is in such a mess? People more unhappy than they would be without it? We have mobiles and internet, but our environment is becoming even more unnatural and stressful. There are animals dying from oil spills or from eating plastic. We have a lot of weapons including nuclear weapons, which scientists invented and they will do away with us soon. I think human is quite a simple creature and in order to be happy, we don´t need those super advanced absurdities. We just need more harmony with the nature, to find out who we are and be at peace with ourselves and others.
 

Flanscho

Well-known member
#31
Flanscho, science has achieved amazing things on one hand, but seems to be totally clueless on the other, regarding things like curing ilnesses.
Science is clueless about curing illnesses? It wiped out the pox, created vaccines. Science can cure thousands of illnesses and diseases. Only a handful can not yet be cured, but most of those can be slowed down. That's like saying "mankind is clueless about cooking food".

If human body was just a purely material machine, it would be easy to repair it. Every repairman could do it. So how come scientists don´t know how to cure ilnesses?
The human body is a bio-chemical-electrical machine. There is no magical pixie fairy dust in it. Some people claim that there is a soul or spirit. I don't mind them believing that, but fact is, that there is neither evidence nor a logical theory why a soul or spirit should exist.
Why not every repairman is capable of repairing it? Well, according to you, every repairman should be able to repair the LHC in Switzerland. Why can't they? Because it's a very very complicated machine. Same with out body. It's very complicated. We learn a lot about it. And the more we learn, the more we can repair. That's one of the major reasons why our lifespan is now much longer than it was in the past.

There is no reason to assume that this trend will not continue. We will learn more about our body in future, and the more we learn, the better we can 'repair' it.


And how come that even with science and advanced civilization, this world is in such a mess? People more unhappy than they would be without it?
One of the main reasons why the world is in such a mess is religion. Example: two loving consenting adults want to show their dedication to their relationship by marrying? Oh, wait, millions of US americans try to prevent them from doing so, investing their time and energy into making others miserable. With religion often comes a very conservative view on the world, which prevents more modern people from applying up to date knowledge to our societies to improve our lifes. Not to mention stuff like outdated role models.
Another reason is greed. The planet could easily feed each and every human on earth. Greed prevents that. Or the concept of the guaranteed minimum income, where each member of a society gains a fixed amount of money each month. Homeless people wouldn't exist anymore. Or people that could create fantastic art, but are tied into time consuming boring jobs, because they have to pay their bills. All that could be paid too. But many people are too conservative or greedy to do that. They fear losing power.

We have mobiles and internet, but our environment is becoming even more unnatural and stressful. There are animals dying from oil spills or from eating plastic. We have a lot of weapons including nuclear weapons, which scientists invented and they will do away with us soon.
That we are stressed is not the result of science, but the result of our social development, in combination with greed. Not to mention that nobody prevents you from selling all your possessions, buy a cheap piece of land out in the nowhere and move there. But you don't want that. Because you enjoy the modern achievements of science.
War? Weapons? All knowledge can be used for good and bad. Does that mean that we should abandon all knowledge? Even if we'd return to sticks and stones, somebody would throw them at you or poke them at you. It's again a social problem, not one regarding science.

There is not a single reason why scientists should not be able to halt the aging progress in a century or so. Heck, they already managed to change mice in a way that they life a dozen times longer than they usually do. It's only a matter of time. It will not happen in our lifetime. But unless some huge catastrophe wipes out humanity or sends it back into barbarism, scientists will definately get there.
 

rosewood

Well-known member
#32
That´s exactly what I think.
Ok...(SIGH)

I am gonna go so FAR OUT on this limb that I fully expect ridicule after this.

I get where you are coming from, and it makes pefect sense. Why in the world if an angel could pull me out of my body, why couldnt just stop my dad from hurting me?

I had another episode where something horrible happened to a family member. I couldnt get the police to help, not enough evidence. I had a huge PTSD trigger to the event and I wasnt able to react fast enough. I was distraught over this fact, that i had planned to kill myself. in a rare moment of downtime, i paced the foyer area of my home. i was suddenly surprised by an image- more like a full color and -really- full sound- movie in the area of my prefrontal lobe. The forehead. Not an hullicination, because it kept rolling whether my eyes were open or not, and it was in the brain, not out in front of me. The basic premise was this- human brains cant imagne what is out there. our bodies consist of two things, a soul and a body. the place where the soul comes from is so perfect that if we tried to go there in this form we would die. the reason we are all here is to add the the symphony of vibrations (my words cant encompass what i saw) that make all life possible, and that if you need help you need only ask. we are all traveling on the same path back to the same source which is comprised of love. an infinite ocean of love. the place we live in now, is like a boot camp for the other side. this is really a very shortended version of what i got.

historically, many people who are trained in meditation have similar reports of ME's and if you notice, NDE's also have similarities to ME

(mystical experience, near death experience)

Ok
:)
the laughing may now commence LOL
 
#33
I recalled one experience from India.. I was in a beach hut. I use immersion heater for warming water on my travels, sometimes I just leave it in the plug, only switch off the button of the plug. So I left it in this time too, and went to have a nap. My sleep was quite bad and shallow. At some point I had a hallucination of a veiled woman who shortly appeared at the feet of my bed, and that made me wake up. I sat up and see my spiral glowing red, burning a hole into the wood. I don´t want to imagine what would be if I didn´t wake up :eek:.

Later people told me, that at that time when I was sleeping, some young sailor jumped from the cliff and killed himself, people were surrounding him on the beach trying to help. So what do I make of this, where was his guardian angel :idontknow: I think if there are guardian angels, shouldn´t they be impartial :idontknow:

I am not laughing at you Rosewood why should I, but I just have to agree with Hellhound, so many people and animals are suffering and dying in a miserable way, why should I believe that exactly I have some guardian angel who loves me more than the others??
 
#34
Flanscho, vaccines are only f**king people up and make more disabled than they cure. They´d better not be invented. (But antibiotics are good if used in proper moment, although the bacteria are building resistance to it with time, so new ones have to be designed). Science in itself isn´t maybe a bad thing, it is people´s immaturity and greed, dishonesty that throws this world in the mess. Science is an impersonal thing, and can be used in good and a bad way. Since people are the way they are, many are misusing it I think, or the elites are keeping its secret for themselves. But I don´t agree that religion is making this world a mess either, if science doesn´t. Religion in itself can´t be blamed, it´s always the people who use it.

I don´t believe body being just a machine, I think there is a lot more to it, I believe there are energetic bodies except this material one, and in these bodies some things are stored too, including supressed and forgotten memories.
 

rosewood

Well-known member
#35
I recalled one experience from India.. I was in a beach hut. I use immersion heater for warming water on my travels, sometimes I just leave it in the plug, only switch off the button of the plug. So I left it in this time too, and went to have a nap. My sleep was quite bad and shallow. At some point I had a hallucination of a veiled woman who shortly appeared at the feet of my bed, and that made me wake up. I sat up and see my spiral glowing red, burning a hole into the wood. I don´t want to imagine what would be if I didn´t wake up :eek:.

Later people told me, that at that time when I was sleeping, some young sailor jumped from the cliff and killed himself, people were surrounding him on the beach trying to help. So what do I make of this, where was his guardian angel :idontknow: I think if there are guardian angels, shouldn´t they be impartial :idontknow:

I am not laughing at you Rosewood why should I, but I just have to agree with Hellhound, so many people and animals are suffering and dying in a miserable way, why should I believe that exactly I have some guardian angel who loves me more than the others??
I totally don't blame you at all for thinking that. :)
 

Flanscho

Well-known member
#36
Flanscho, vaccines are only f**king people up and make more disabled than they cure. They´d better not be invented.
I don't say that all vaccinations are always necessary. However, vaccinations prevented millions of deaths, and prevented billions of infections. Without them, the world would be in a much different (much worse) state as it is. Saying that all vaccinations are bad is simply nonsense. It's the most effective method to prevent infectious diseases from spreading. There is no better tool or method known to mankind than vaccinations for this matter.
Saying that all vaccinations are bad is like saying that all plants are bad (because some are poisonous), so let's never eat any plant again.


I don´t believe body being just a machine, I think there is a lot more to it, I believe there are energetic bodies except this material one, and in these bodies some things are stored too, including supressed and forgotten memories.
You can belive that. That's perfectly fine with me. But I don't share that opinion.
 
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