What RELIGION are you?

[Si]

God did give us free will, and you are very free to choose what you want to believe. God does not want anyone to feel forced to follow him. Just remember that everything in life has an outcome. If you choose something, you just have to accept the results, the outcome.

Yes I totally agree.And it all comes down to faith in the end.There is not enough physical evidence to disprove God or prove his existence anyway.Even though plenty of the bible has already been scientifically proven.The parting of the red sea was successfully proved possible in a scientific experiment as well (I actually saw the experiment).To put faith in god or man ? That is the question.And by man I mean scientists too.But you only have to look at mans track record to know who the best choice would be.Don't know of any man offering eternal life for free. And if they were would you trust them ?Lets keep this thread rocken on.Its all good

 

[Nytro]

I want to know why im getting a constant negative vibe on Christianity, the more I go deeper into that Religion the more controlling and negative it feels.

In the Old Testament, GOD is seen as angry, jealous, and quite mean spirited at times. There was the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and that flood during Noah’s Ark!

Then in the New Testament, we of course have the belief that we are sinful, lowly worms. And regardless of what good people are in this word, if your not Christian your going to Hell. Why would a loving God do such a thing as this?

Right now im stuck in an Agnostic notion, i dont know were to turn but my feelings on what God truly is like. Becuase If I were to get more into Christianity I would feel such a burdon. Its like the Christian God doesnt want us to think for ourselves but instead suffer a life for an eternity thats not certain.

 

[Nytro]

And I also dont understand all the bloodshed in the name of God, why doesnt God intervien when his people are doing the most damage?

ex. Crusades

 

[Si]

I want to know why im getting a constant negative vibe on Christianity, the more I go deeper into that Religion the more controlling and negative it feels.

In the Old Testament, GOD is seen as angry, jealous, and quite mean spirited at times. There was the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and that flood during Noah’s Ark!

Then in the New Testament, we of course have the belief that we are sinful, lowly worms. And regardless of what good people are in this word, if your not Christian your going to Hell. Why would a loving God do such a thing as this?

Right now im stuck in an Agnostic notion, i dont know were to turn but my feelings on what God truly is like. Becuase If I were to get more into Christianity I would feel such a burdon. Its like the Christian God doesnt want us to think for ourselves but instead suffer a life for an eternity thats not certain.

Hi Nytro.These are things many people ask.The old testament was a different dispensation to the new testament.It was applicable to the people of the time but it is not applicable for us now.The best way to explain it is imagine God as the Father and the people as the children.The children were doing terrible things, things that God told them not to do.They disobeyed him.So he dealt to them severe discipline.Would you do nothing if your children constantly disobeyed you ? I know I couldn't.I'm a Dad myself.
But we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God.That is why in the New testament we can get forgiveness through the death of his son Jesus.
He took all of the worlds sin with him when he died.God did this because he loves us so much.And more than anything he wishes that none of us would perish.It would seem a burdon to you only if all your focus was on yourself.God wants us to die to ourselves and follow him.The word JOY means Jesus first, yourself last and others in between.Only then can you feel the joy and fullfilment of life.I know I have been there.Think about the last time you helped somebody and didn't think about yourself.Didn't it make you feel better.Of course we still need to live but we shouldn't live soley for ourselves.Self satisfaction is not possible.Man can never be satisfied without God.Deep down you know that there is something you are searching for.There is a place in your heart that is not truly satisfied.
This place has deliberatly been put there by God and only he can fill it.
Of course we all have questions.But God has all the answers.Ask him some time.

 

[Nytro]

Here's how it usually works: "My Religion is Right!" "Why?" "Because my Holy Book says it is!" "Well, why should I believe your Holy Book is Right?" "Because my Religion says it is!"

Have you ever played the game of "Telephone"? People line up, and a message is whispered to the first person in the line, who whispers it to the second person, who whispers it to the third, and so on until the last person gets the message. They then say the message that they got and everybody laughs at how the simple message got completely mangled to the point of being unrecognizable.

Now, add to this process the following and shake, not stir: What century was it written in? What language was it in? How many translations has it gone through since then? How likely is it that there were words and phrases that did not translate literally, and the translator had to make an approximation across the languages? How many cultural differences go unstated that are not accounted for in translations? How many political or other agendas were able to influence the translations to sound more like the positions that they advocated?

As you can see, there are many issues that can take what could have been straight from Divinity and changed, confused or corrupted it on its way to the version you see today.

And we still haven't addressed the issues as to whether the person who originally said they heard it wrote it down correctly. Have you ever tried to write down what happened in a dream after you woke up? Have you ever had difficulty expressing a significant personal experience using nothing but words?

taken from http://www.apath.org/im_right_youre_wrong.html

Oh yea and the author happens to be Pagan, so its all ready 100% pure evil, lol. Read it for the questions it has because many people who arnt hoping quite yet for Religions feel their is an uncomfortable amount of lack of proof, after all religion is written by man about the image of God, God did not personally right it, people did. (Whether "Influenced" or not)

Check out this article, it questions many things. Let say the Bible is 100% acurate, whats to say its 100% accurate now and things were nt revised and taken out. Like hmm, 18 years of Jesus's life.

And Beleive me I have asked God, many times for helping me find the truth, but guess what? All I get is silence for years, and when I look for people who seem to know the faith well, they are finatics and make you feel like crap based on the fact that you have to be 100% like them in order to be "saved".

 

[Chilling__Echo]

My religion is Baha'i.
It believes in the Oneness of all religions and that all religions came from one God.
It also believes in the oneness of humanity.
I like unity. and the idea of World Peace.

i didn't know there was a word for this!! but this is how i think to a T!

i think there is one God, where ever he may be and whatever he may be doing, i wouldn't disbelieve that the Bible was devinely inspired but it's been passed down through too many hands and translations for me to take anything too literally. i grew up Baptist and got fet up with details and specifics, there are more important things in this world.

however as of late i've been feeling a bit discouraged and angry with it all. what's the point of making the human race anyway? why do anything? who asked me to be dragged into all of this and get swept up into societies creations like schoolworkmoneyfamilyfriendsgovernmentlove everything. why be anything? why exist for the sake of existing? for what?

 

[lawyerguy]

About "free will" "i'll repost my post from months earlier...


Imagine, if you will, a person coming up to you and putting a gun to your head. The person says.."Play checkers or else I"ll put a bullet to your head." Being a human being who values his freedom you protest. You tell him.."its wrong for you to make me play this game of checkers..you are taking away my free will... the guy with the gun stops to think about what you said and responds "I'm not taking away your free will you are free to move the pieces on the checker board anyway you want.."...and you reply "That's not the point. I don't have the free will to decide whether or not I want to play this game of checkers in the first place. So any movements I make on the checker board are the result of coercion..not free will"

Basically this analogy applies to any religious philosophy that incorporates sin, hell, and punishment within its theology. God is making us play this game of life. We had no say as to whether or not we wanted to be born. We were simply forced to live. Any decisions we make in this life are therefore akin to moving pieces on the checkerboard. We have free will only in the context of the choices God gives us just as the man with the gun only grants us free will within the context of the choices he chooses for us. We do not have the free will to opt out of the game.

The main point is..one cannot truly be said to make a decision out of your own free will at the point of a gun. Similarly one cannot truly be said to make a decision out of your own free will at the threat of damnation. The god of the sin and damnation does not grant us true free will.



I think it is a waste of time to try and convince religious people to try and give up their beliefs. no matter how many arguments you make, how many logical points you score, no matter the lack of evidence,. they will continue to believe. That is basically the defintion of Faith... "belief in the absence of evidence or reason" Coincidently that's also the same definition of "delusion"

You Cannot Reason with Faith.



I choose to believe science and logic over faith because of their respective track record.

Imagine if Science and Religion were job applicants who were applying for the job of "truth seeker". When we look at Religion's resume we see that Religion was wrong about almost everything thing it claimed to know was true.. 1) the earth being is center of the universe 2) Disease was caused by the devil 3) Mental illnesses were caused by the devil . . . etc.

When we look at science's resume we see 1) that science was correct in EVERY instance when it conflicted with religion (sun is center of the solar system, germs cause disease, chemical imbalances cause mental illness .2) that even when scientiffic theories were found to be in error, they were corrected by OTHER scientiffic theories. Scientiffic theories have never been disproven by religious theories.

So we see that throughout history Science has had a 100% success rate at reaching at the truth in relation to Religion and Religion has had a 0% success rate. Which would you hire to seek truth?

Another point. If there was ever scientiffic evidence proving God's existence religious people would jump on it. THe only reason why they do not believe in science on religious matters now is because they don't like the answer it gives.

If Science ever proved god's existence I would be happy to believe. I believe whichever way the evidence points. The destination is not whats important to me, its the path I take to get there. I am a truth seeker first, an atheist second. Most religious people are "christians/muslims/jews/hindhus.. fill in the blanks" first. Truth is almost an after thought. If truth were important to them, they would consider the possibilty that their beliefs are untrue and put their beliefs to the test by critically examining them and exploring other possibilities.

 

[lawyerguy]

Si, you said there were plenty of the "things in the bible" that are scientiffically proven. Please show me one experiment or source, published in a reputable peer reviewed scientiffic journal that "proves" any of the bible's claims?

And by reputable peer reviewed scientiffic journal I mean something accepted by the mainstream community, like "Nature" or "science". These scientiffic journals publish peer reviewed scientific experiments conducted by respected scientists. The concept of "peer review" by other scientists is important because scienitiffic theories or experiments are never taken at face value and must be proven to the satisfaction of other scientists in the related field.

The experiments must be re-testable and subject to verification by other scientists.

I have no doubt that there might be some who claim to have scientiffic proof for the bible's miracle assertions. But I highly doubt any of them have been brave enough to submit those claims to mainstream, reputable scientiffic scrutiny.

 

[SteveSimpson]

The scientific experiment was probably in a documentary they showed on the Christian channel. The stories they make up on that ridiculous channel are hilarious.

 

[Zipper]

A Christian who brings a child into the world believing that Yahweh is God is like a girl who invites her friend to spend the night at her house knowing her father is a child-molestor.

The idea of hell, described even at the most benign level of abstraction, is morally outrageous: "rendering penalties for the violation of divine law" is vain and wasted cruelty -- sadistic. It's like tearing the wings off of dragonflies.

If God wanted to turn half the universe into hell and the other half deriving pleasure from the light glaring from hell, he should never even have bothered. Because none of us are impressed, Big Guy.

If Yahweh cares to impress only himself by doing what would be wrong if one man did it to another, then we have no warrant to doubt that he would be likewise impressed with himself by lying to all Christians about the method of avoiding a penalty and then destroying them all. :twisted:

Fortunately, the Bible is just ignorant mischievous superstition and is no teaching of the mind of the One. The operation of God's infinite wrath upon a non-believing sinner is life-enhancing.

 

[Zipper]

yea maybe you need an exorcism:twisted:, jp

but, you still havnt given me any proof of what lead you to think like this

There is no "proof," just go to God and ask whether his wrath is pedagogical or penal. And the way to be pedagogically instructed by God as to the answer to this question is by yielding yourself to the operation of his infinite wrath.

It is circular reasoning, just as Christianity is circular, except this is circular and true while Christianity is circular and false. Christianity is circular and false, infecting the brain with a bunch of spyware like the name "Jesus," while Neoplatonism is circular and true, leading the Neo-Platonist to get more and more intimate with the Real and destroying all cognitive-linguistic fixations like certain words "Jesus died for my sins."

No words need be held at all by a neo-platonist -- union with the one is a shattering of the discursive intellect. Now THIS immediately commends Neoplatonism as being true because words -- just like HPV -- aggressively fight to introduce themselves into your body. They want to survive and reproduce, like chain letters. The thing that kills them is the thing that draws you out of your mind and into union with God.

I can't point you to an authoritative text because texts are destructible in the eternal world as we get closer and closer to the substance which reveals each text to be deficient -- no matter how hopeful or wonderful the texts are.

The only way you will discover that God is not cruel is to yield yourself to the operation of his supposed cruelty. It's like cognitive-behavioral therapy, I suppose -- the only way you are going to find out it is not lethal to make eye contact is to do so.

 

[cLavain]

Si,

Please document your outrageous claims. I dare say even most Christians would balk at something like "parting of the Red Sea scientifically proven"!

 

[Zipper]

God IS the goodness of Good.

Hi Zipper,

So is God also the "evilness" of evil ?

p.s. well done for starting this topic !

Evil does not exist on its own but is the privation of good. All that exists is good, and What we perceive as evil is parasitic darkening of the good -- creeping death. But every error carries within it the seeds of its own destruction in the eternal world of the parousia. God's judgment will destroy all wrong. As Dostoevsky said: "Sin is…smog, and the smog will disappear when the sun rises in its power."

 

[itchy]

woah, this thread's moving quick! I'm not sure I can keep up with everything but here's a coupla things I'd like to add...

What were you trying to prove again..?

I was trying to point out that you can't base all your descisions in life on evidence...sometimes you've gotta follow your heart. Here's another example...say you have a choice between two mates...one is, in evolutionary, natural selection terms, an ideal mate...beautiful, intelligent, talented, i.e. very good genes, etc...while the other is the opposite...but you don't love the first mate, you love the second...which one will you choose? the one you love right? Basically if I ever have a dilemma where all the scientific evidence was pointing me in one direction, but my heart, that feeling inside, was telling me to go the other direction, I'd follow my heart every time. That's what I'm talking about...and to imply that doing this...putting my trust in my heart, is some kind of delusion is wrong...I don't turn my brain off when I make decisions like this...I take into consideration my feelings as another form of evidence and weigh it up with the rest.

It's also funny how religious people don't mind using scientific evidence if it supports their own theory, but will happily use the old 'it's a matter of faith'-routine if the evidence contradicts it.

But this is the same for anyone who believes in anything...even science...there are things not yet proven, but you have faith that one day science will provide the answer, right?

For nytro
On the topic of the image of God...firstly I think there are lots of myths and stereotypes of God that are false. I believe God is love...total goodness. A God of love that gets angry is not a contradiction...anger is not a sin. When you see injustice, if you love the truth you'll get angry. Also, a father that disciplines his child shows more love than a father who doesn't. As for the plagues and stuff, I don't know how things were in the old testament, but they were definitely different to how they are in the new testament, now that Jesus has died for our sins. Anyway, all those horrible stereotypes of God don't reflect the God that I know. The God that I've been walking with for the last four years, answers my prayers, gives me a ridiculous amount of gifts, is abundant in grace, and pours out his holy spirit into my heart til I literally have trouble breathing!

Plus the stuff about sacrificing your life for God I have trouble with too. I don't find that stuff easy, although I'm sure the bible's right when it teaches this stuff. But I take pigeon steps and God reveals a bit more each step. I see it like this...God owns everything, even time, nothing belongs to me, but he's given me gifts and jobs to do...if I do a good job, I get the credit, but I understand that without God, the gifts wouldn't even be there in the first place.

and why doesn't god stop all the evil in the world?...because of free will...God never forces himself onto anyone...he respects our free will...the devil uses force, but God only uses truth and love.

also, because I don't have much time to keep up with this thread, there's one source that I get a lot of my arguements from, so I'll just leave the link and let anybody look if they wish...its a touch cheesy, but ignore that...the facts speak for themselves. Its an audio ministry. The link below is a series called "why I believe"
http://resources.christianity.com/series/lot/1673.aspx
[click on "display all" then choose a topic and there'll be a "listen now" link.]

 

[cLavain]

I was trying to point out that you can't base all your descisions in life on evidence...sometimes you've gotta follow your heart. Here's another example...say you have a choice between two mates...one is, in evolutionary, natural selection terms, an ideal mate...beautiful, intelligent, talented, i.e. very good genes, etc...while the other is the opposite...but you don't love the first mate, you love the second...which one will you choose? the one you love right? Basically if I ever have a dilemma where all the scientific evidence was pointing me in one direction, but my heart, that feeling inside, was telling me to go the other direction, I'd follow my heart every time. That's what I'm talking about...and to imply that doing this...putting my trust in my heart, is some kind of delusion is wrong...I don't turn my brain off when I make decisions like this...I take into consideration my feelings as another form of evidence and weigh it up with the rest.

Nothing of what you say contradicts my words. Doing what makes you feel good is the rational thing to do in that situation. Your heart has no opinions on anything, it's a metaphor, Itchy. You are trying to separate your brain and your feelings, and that IS delusional. Any decision you make is the result of thinking. It's uncritical thinking I want people to be aware of, not feelings. Marrying someone out of love is sensible thinking, marrying someone because your religion dictates it is uncritical thinking. See the difference I am trying to convey?

But this is the same for anyone who believes in anything...even science...there are things not yet proven, but you have faith that one day science will provide the answer, right?

I'm not sure you got my point here. If one single piece of evidence conclusively shows a theory to be wrong, then any honest scientist will have to revise his theory. Most religious people on the other hand will cherry pick evidence to support their theory, and ignore anything that contradicts it. This is intellectual dishonesty!

 

[lawyerguy]

woah, this thread's moving quick! I'm not sure I can keep up with everything but here's a coupla things I'd like to add...

What were you trying to prove again..?

I was trying to point out that you can't base all your descisions in life on evidence...sometimes you've gotta follow your heart. Here's another example...say you have a choice between two mates...one is, in evolutionary, natural selection terms, an ideal mate...beautiful, intelligent, talented, i.e. very good genes, etc...while the other is the opposite...but you don't love the first mate, you love the second...which one will you choose? the one you love right? Basically if I ever have a dilemma where all the scientific evidence was pointing me in one direction, but my heart, that feeling inside, was telling me to go the other direction, I'd follow my heart every time. That's what I'm talking about...and to imply that doing this...putting my trust in my heart, is some kind of delusion is wrong...I don't turn my brain off when I make decisions like this...I take into consideration my feelings as another form of evidence and weigh it up with the rest.

It's also funny how religious people don't mind using scientific evidence if it supports their own theory, but will happily use the old 'it's a matter of faith'-routine if the evidence contradicts it.

But this is the same for anyone who believes in anything...even science...there are things not yet proven, but you have faith that one day science will provide the answer, right?

For nytro
On the topic of the image of God...firstly I think there are lots of myths and stereotypes of God that are false. I believe God is love...total goodness. A God of love that gets angry is not a contradiction...anger is not a sin. When you see injustice, if you love the truth you'll get angry. Also, a father that disciplines his child shows more love than a father who doesn't. As for the plagues and stuff, I don't know how things were in the old testament, but they were definitely different to how they are in the new testament, now that Jesus has died for our sins. Anyway, all those horrible stereotypes of God don't reflect the God that I know. The God that I've been walking with for the last four years, answers my prayers, gives me a ridiculous amount of gifts, is abundant in grace, and pours out his holy spirit into my heart til I literally have trouble breathing!

Plus the stuff about sacrificing your life for God I have trouble with too. I don't find that stuff easy, although I'm sure the bible's right when it teaches this stuff. But I take pigeon steps and God reveals a bit more each step. I see it like this...God owns everything, even time, nothing belongs to me, but he's given me gifts and jobs to do...if I do a good job, I get the credit, but I understand that without God, the gifts wouldn't even be there in the first place.

and why doesn't god stop all the evil in the world?...because of free will...God never forces himself onto anyone...he respects our free will...the devil uses force, but God only uses truth and love.

also, because I don't have much time to keep up with this thread, there's one source that I get a lot of my arguements from, so I'll just leave the link and let anybody look if they wish...its a touch cheesy, but ignore that...the facts speak for themselves. Its an audio ministry. The link below is a series called "why I believe"
http://resources.christianity.com/series/lot/1673.aspx
[click on "display all" then choose a topic and there'll be a "listen now" link.]

Hi Itchy,

First I want to say that I do respect your beliefs and you seem sincere in those beliefs. However I would (respectfully) like to point to a few gaping flaws in your logic.

Your example of the person choosing one mate over another mate is not really analogous to the discussion we're having. When you choose a person to marry or "fall in love with", you are not not seeking to know any objective truths. Your purpose is to find someone who will make you happy and keep you company through your life. Your Feelings might be relevant in choosing between Jenny versus Josephine, (or if you wanted to pick between having turkey or chicken for dinner for that matter), but they have little reliable relevance to any discussions about finding truth. Your selection of friends, lovers, spouses, dinner items are totally in the category of subjectivity. Therefore subjective factors such as your feelings are appropriate in those instances. The purpose of a theological debate is to find out the whether or not an objective thing exists or doesn't exist. The purpose of choosing a person to marry has nothing to do with objective truths. You are confusing purposes.

You first said that we shouldn't base our whole beliefs on evidence because sometimes you have to "follow your heart". Then you go on to say that your feelings are a different form of "evidence" for you. If you consider your feelings to be a form of evidence, then you too, are basing your beliefs on evidence.

The reason why I do not think that "feelings" are a reliable source of evidence is because they are highly subjective and variable. Your feelings may lead you to believe that jesus is the son of God. Someone in the middle east has feelings that probably lead him to believe that the koran is the true word of God.

I might feel that my friend "jack" is a nice guy. Someone else might feel that Jack is a jerk. Who can tell who is right? Feelings are the essence of subjectivity and can provide, at best, only weak, unreliable subjective interpretations of what the truth is.

You said that we have to have "faith in science" that it will prove things. We do not have "faith" in science. We are reasonably confident that science will provide a better explanation for phenomena than religion. Why? because In my last post I have just posted why science has a proven empirical track record of being ALOT closer to the truth than religion has. We believe that science is better suited to find the truth than religion, because it has had a %100 success rate at finding the truth. We have confidence in science to find the truth, we do not have "faith". I can have confidence in my employee jack, that he'll do his job well because of his past success. That's not "faith". That's belief based upon empirical success.

and the free will argument,.. see my post above about God and "free will". Under the christian/muslim/jewish definition of God, there is no true free will.

 

[Zipper]

On the topic of the image of God...firstly I think there are lots of myths and stereotypes of God that are false. I believe God is love...total goodness. Anyway, all those horrible stereotypes of God don't reflect the God that I know.

Well, good for you, but don't trick yourself into believing you are a Biblical Christian because the Bible is clearly against you. It agrees with you that God is love, but then claims that he also has a kind of vengeful "justice" and cruel "holiness." Yahweh of the Bible counts atheists as his enemies and fully intends to render infinite penalties upon them.

A+ for you for not believing that Yahweh is God, but you are going to be presented with something else when you pick up your Bible. I KNOW what the Bible says. It won't stop saying what it says -- that no person who rejects the doctrine of the incarnation will be united to God in the eternal world, no matter how sincerely they trust in a different method of uniting with God. There are divine penalties for sin that will be imposed upon the non-believing sinner or Christ as his substitue. THIS is CHristianity. Any deviation from this infinite horror ("Christ died for my sins," "non-Christians do not unite with God in the eternal world") has been anathematized by the Bible itself in Galatians. If you are a Christian, what makes you think you know more about God than what the Bible tells you? What makes you think that it is any more appealing to watch a person remain in Christianity but claim to have a better or different understanding than the one provided by the Bible itself?

Some persons, desiring to find a solution to the baseness of the Bible and Christianity rather than abandon them, have had recourse to explanations inconsistent and incongruous with the words written and the religion. I have seen many examples of this absurdity, and C.S. Lewis is a perfect example. The whole Anglican church is involved in attempting to turn a sow's ear into a purse. N.T. Wright, Steve Chalke -- they are all wasting their mental effort in trying to help the religion evolve, instead of doing what every honest, intelligent and compassionate person will do -- attack the religion head on. They think that they are manipulating the religion, but the religion is manipulating them to help it survive and reproduce in a more benign form. But don't forget that the malignant form will always menace you from the pages of the Bible. It is still there, and will be there still until humanity is done.

Well done for finding a community and a connection to the divine. It's just a terrible pity that Christianity is our only option in the West. Let's resurrect Asartru or some other pagan pre-Christian religion. I want to build a temple to Apollo.

 

[cLavain]

They think that they are manipulating the religion, but the religion is manipulating them to help it survive and reproduce in a more benign form.

I love this sentence. Kudos!

 

[Nytro]

Wow, Good Point

So where the heck does someone turn in search of Sprituality,
since it seems like no religion can be proven accurate. It's true many
try to alter the religion to fit their needs, but if you were to do everything by
the book, 1 you'd probably go insane, and 2 youd realize the Bible has too many contradictions on God.

Ok their was the Old Testament (Vengeful God)

Then their was the New Testamnet (Gracious God)

But this is the same God we are talking about how can we just say oh theres a new testament so God is diffrent now, so basically God just changed his attitude on everything?

It just doesnt make scense, too many exagerated stories, and how could God be good or smart for that manner to just wipe everyone out that seems very barbaric and stupid. Now from what science shows us, all the wonder of our universe, how could a barbaric God create all this, and still do all those pointless things that the Bible states. I want to get into Christianity, but all this must be thrown to the table. Its just to stupid to ignore it and just "beleive" without first calming about whats needs to be questioned.

Either:

Long Ago the Bible was true but man has edited it to support his cause in the form of control.

Or the Bible is just as made up as other religions, but bits and peices of actually truths were taken and Christianity was made up.

Or It actually is all true, what holds me to the possiblity of it being true..lets bring up certain miracles (bleeding statues) or good supernatural events, exorcisms (possible epilepsy but cured after repeated exorcism) and whatever esle could be brought to the table. Perhaps this stuff does really happen.

And totaly out of subject but whats with the Egyptians, the Pyramids and all their science before their times. And why doesnt a religion on it exist today, well perhaps it does but i dont know the name.

And are propecies accuratly true?, because it could be possible that the Jews learned of Prophecy's of the Egyptians and wrote it in their doctrines as their own or the Romans for that manner. This may explain all the "proven facts" found in the Bible. Just a theory though, but Ive been seeing quite a bit on the Ancient Egyptians and they are the most fascinating.

 

[Peacefinder]

I am a Christian, too.

The Bible says Jesus is the only way. seek and you shall find. I think your heart has to be in the right place to find Him, though. If like Zipper, your hard hearted and bitter towards God, no matter if you say your not, you are not open to finding Him because you have already begun with an angry attitude and opinion towards Him.
If you sincerely are seeking Him, you will find Him. Remember Jesus performed miracles out of love and compassion for people, not for entertainment and proof of his divinity to those who were mockers of Him.

Sorry Zipper, I'm not bashing you, but you are evidentely very hurt and bitter towards God and/or your beleiving family.

Search for yourselves. Pick up the Bible and read the New Testament for yourselves and make your choice. The book of John is a great place to read.

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

thewayofthemaster.com