What RELIGION are you?

[cLavain]

Hi Giolanda,

I believe in truth, and truth leads me away from religion.

If I thought God spoke to me I would know that I had gone completely bonkers! Or, rather, I wouldn't, I suppose...

I would also like to return your invitation:
Read about biology, astronomy, geology and psychology, read about logical fallacies and about the scientific method and a deeper truth will be revealed to you: The existence of a Creator can not be proven or disproven, thus it remains in the land of speculation. Forget what you want to be true, embrace reality! 8)

PS: Why do you think I am violent?

 

[Zipper]

if you read the Bible you will see that it's not a common book,it's the world's wisdom.

The Bible is the work of ignorant men -- it is a mingling of truth and mistake, of wisdom and foolishness, of cruelty and kindness, of philosophy and absurdity -- it contains some elevated thoughts, some poetry, -- a good deal of the solemn and commonplace, -- some hysterical, some tender, some wicked prayers, some insane predictions, some delusions, and some chaotic dreams.

Intelligent men, who are not frightened by threats of punishment for sin, whose brains have not been paralyzed by fear, know that the Bible was written by an ignorant savage. The story is inconsistent with all known facts, and every star shining in the heavens testifies that its author was an uninspired barbarian.

The Bible is not inspired in its morality, for the reason that slavery is not moral, that polygamy is not good, that wars of extermination are not merciful, and that nothing can be more immoral than to punish the innocent on account of the sins of the guilty.

If you really delve into the Bible you will see that it is a maze, a mass, a veritable labyrinth of contradictions, inconsistencies, inaccuracies, poor mathematics, bad science, erroneous geography, false prophecies, immoral comments, degenerate heroes, and a multitude of other problems too numerous to mention. It may be somebody's word but it certainly isn't the product of a perfect, divine being.

 

[GIOLANDA]

Hi Giolanda,

I believe in truth, and truth leads me away from religion.

If I thought God spoke to me I would know that I had gone completely bonkers! Or, rather, I wouldn't, I suppose...

I would also like to return your invitation:
Read about biology, astronomy, geology and psychology, read about logical fallacies and about the scientific method and a deeper truth will be revealed to you: The existence of a Creator can not be proven or disproven, thus it remains in the land of speculation. Forget what you want to be true, embrace reality! 8)

PS: Why do you think I am violent?

Hello! I didn't mean that you are violent,I was speaking in general,sorry if I've been misunderstood! I've read many books,I study psychology by the way,but nothing gives me the peace that the Bible does. I love reading,but the Bible is more than that,it's like soul's food and many profecies have been fullfilled. In fact,it is fullfilled every day and if you read it you'll see how well it describes the present and predicts the future. Except for this,science cannot disagree with the Bible,as the Bible includes science as well. There are many scientists who believe in Lord. I know that we can't change each other's opinions,but I'm just saying that if you read it simply,you'll see its treasure. I read it because I like it!

 

[GIOLANDA]

if you read the Bible you will see that it's not a common book,it's the world's wisdom.

The Bible is the work of ignorant men -- it is a mingling of truth and mistake, of wisdom and foolishness, of cruelty and kindness, of philosophy and absurdity -- it contains some elevated thoughts, some poetry, -- a good deal of the solemn and commonplace, -- some hysterical, some tender, some wicked prayers, some insane predictions, some delusions, and some chaotic dreams.

Intelligent men, who are not frightened by threats of punishment for sin, whose brains have not been paralyzed by fear, know that the Bible was written by an ignorant savage. The story is inconsistent with all known facts, and every star shining in the heavens testifies that its author was an uninspired barbarian.

The Bible is not inspired in its morality, for the reason that slavery is not moral, that polygamy is not good, that wars of extermination are not merciful, and that nothing can be more immoral than to punish the innocent on account of the sins of the guilty.

If you really delve into the Bible you will see that it is a maze, a mass, a veritable labyrinth of contradictions, inconsistencies, inaccuracies, poor mathematics, bad science, erroneous geography, false prophecies, immoral comments, degenerate heroes, and a multitude of other problems too numerous to mention. It may be somebody's word but it certainly isn't the product of a perfect, divine being.

Wow,what's all this,I've been shocked! 8O I think that you have misunderstood the Bible,Zipper! One simple question: Can anybody claim that the Bible lies? :roll:

 

[cLavain]

Giolanda,

Well, we have debated the contradictions and false prophecies of the Bible for some pages now, but the take-away point is that even if the Bible was as fantastic as you claim, it would not prove that it was the word of a god.

 

[MarCPatt]

Are you bible haters the ones going around burning churches???? :?

I said I was not going to come back, but after watching in the news that a couple of people are going around burning churches, I thought of this post and the user who said he wanted to burn every bible in the world to stop the evil chain letter, the bible.

 

[MarCPatt]

One thing is to be a social phobic and another to be a sociopath.

 

[MarCPatt]

If you are going around burning churches, you need to get help. This is a crime, a crime of a sociopath and you need more than this forum to help you.

 

[MarCPatt]

Get help, before is too late.

 

[MarCPatt]

http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...urch13feb13,1,601629.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

A 10th Alabama Church Torched
Officials call it arson and are investigating whether it is connected to nine recent fires.

From Associated Press


BIRMINGHAM, Ala. — A weekend fire at a Baptist church was ruled arson Sunday, the 10th in a recent string of blazes set at churches in rural Alabama, authorities said.

The Saturday afternoon blaze severely damaged the Beaverton Freewill Baptist Church in northwest Alabama, near

It's definitely arson," said Ragan Ingram, a spokesman for the state fire marshal's office, which was investigating whether the fire was connected to the other blazes that had destroyed or damaged nine churches since Feb. 2.

Saturday's fire in Lamar County was the only one that wasn't set in the predawn hours.

Investigators have said they don't know a motive, but there is no racial pattern.

Five of the churches had white congregations and five black. All were Baptist, the dominant faith in the region, and mostly in isolated rural settings.

Last week, Gov. Bob Riley said the nine earlier fires appeared to be linked, as investigators checked out witness reports of two men in a sport utility vehicle near a number of the fires.

On Sunday, a federal investigator said authorities believed that two white men were responsible for the fires.

"They're not youths or teens," said Eric Kehn, a spokesman for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. "It's probably someone in their 20s or 30s. We believe they're pretty much inseparable. They're something like bosom buddies."

Evidence from one of the earlier fires indicates the arsonists may have been briefly trapped inside the building and may have been hurt, said Jim Cavanaugh, regional director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

 

[cLavain]

@MarCPatt

Thank you for bringing the debate down to kindergarten level by labeling those who do not agree with you as arsonists.

And please stop spamming the thread!

 

[analguy]

Are you bible haters the ones going around burning churches???? :?

I said I was not going to come back, but after watching in the news that a couple of people are going around burning churches, I thought of this post and the user who said he wanted to burn every bible in the world to stop the evil chain letter, the bible.

You moron.

 

[Lavinia84]

Many thanks for finally turning to my area of expertise...Egyptology.

It is not possible to prove that Akhenaten was a monotheist (belived in one god). He certainly went out of his way to vandalise all the temples of Amun and to promote his Aten cult. He even diverted all the revenues from other temples to the temple of Aten. But if he beilved in only one god, why allow the other tempels to remain? Why refer to other gods, such as Re, Horus and Shu in the Great Hymn to Aten?

It is likely that Aten was seen as the greatest of all gods. After all Akhenaten grew up in a polytheistic culture, while it is a beliveable step that he thought one god was greater than the others, its a drastic step to think there is only one god.

Even the ancient Hebrews had worshiped many gods, they then took the step of declaring their god was the only one that counted, that he was their god....hence:

I am the lord your God, you shall have no other god beside me

Not:

I am the lord God, there are no other gods.

Anyway, if Akhenaten were a monotheist he reigned about 150yrs before the current suggested date for the Exodus, and all record of his reign that could be found was wiped out, we're lucky some of it was burried shortly after he died, or we wouldn't know either.

So how would you suggest the idea got transmitted to the Hebrews, who supposedly had one God before they went to Egypt?

 

[itchy]

hey man, there's no need to call MarCPatt a moron. He was just giving his two cents like everyone else...and he's hardly spamming. Other people, myself included, have posted a lot more on this topic than he has.

 

[cLavain]

He was just giving his two cents like everyone else.

Yeah, insinuating that us non-believers burn down churches is a valuable contribution to the thread. MarCPatt is obviously a scholar worth listening to. :lol: :roll:

 

[Lavinia84]

Out of curiosity has anyone else read Emperor Julian's "Against the Galilaeans". Its a good read

 

[Zipper]

Out of curiosity has anyone else read Emperor Julian's "Against the Galilaeans". Its a good read

I have Julian's book against Christianity, but haven't read it yet. I also have Prophyry's book against Christianity and Celsus's book against Christianity. There was much more material written during the first few hundred years of the church, but the faithful have destroyed most of it. Prophyry, a Christian who converted to NeoPlatonism, wrote 15 books against Christianity, and only a few passages survive. Speaking of book burning, Christians have instigated this much more than anyone else ever has.

MarcPlatt. You are overreacting to what people are saying. You are accusing us of "burning you at the stake," and "attacking you" and "doing violence to property." This is a totally unwarranted slander of us. Way over the top. Christians need to learn to accept some criticism of their cognitive systems without making more of it than what it is. Christianity, too, is a candidate for criticism, it is no longer a taboo in American society to criticize Christianity and point out that the emperor has no clothes. Christianity no loger has a place of privilege, protected from any critical evaluation.

If Christianity is not true, then the Bible is comparable to a pernicious chain letter, being passed around and filling men's mind's with anxiety about the risk of divine punishments for sin. By pointing this out, I don't mean to say that I want to do violence to either you or your property, I am just laying out the possibilities. Christians believe that the Bible is true and given by God. I suppose it is possible that the Bible is the TRUE chainletter -- GOD'S chainletter. But then we have to decide for ourselves which analysis we find to be more plausible.

 

[Zipper]

The Catholics have a Pope. The Protestants laugh at them, and yet the Pope is capable of intellectual advancement. In addition to this, the Pope is mortal, and the church cannot be afflicted with the same person forever

The Protestants have a book for their Pope. Year after year, the Bible presents the very same closed, circular cognitive system: There is a punishment for the violation of God's law, and the only ones who will be pardoned of it ("justified") are people who believe the punishment exists and was vicariously rendered upon Christ on the Cross ("faith").

The Catholics with their Pope, have moved beyond this. Pope John Paul II's favorite modern theologian was Hans Urs Van Balthasar, a thinker committed to the NeoPlatonic synthesis seen in St. Maximos the Confessor and St. Gregory of Nyssa. In JPII's later sermons, we see that he came to the conclusion that there is no penalty for the violation of God's law. He redefined the meaning of the word "Hell" and by implication those who go there:
http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1183

According to JPII, no Non-Christian will be in "hell" who willingly yields himself to the operation of divine punishment, trusting that it is pedagogical and hoping to be transfigured by it -- because such a person has certainly NOT "closed himself to God." JPII: "All who seek God with a sincere heart, including those who do not know Christ and His church, contribute to the building of His kingdom" (Vatican Info Service, 12/6/00).

But the Protestant Bible cannot advance. Year after year, and century after century, the book remains as mind-twistingly ignorant as ever.

(And, to be honest, I am not sure how much influence Pope JPII's innovations will have on the Catholic community; I've spoken to very many Catholics who continue to believe in material hellfire that only Christians will escape. Also, it takes an abstract mind to discern the ultimate implications of JPII's statements -- and Christians hate abstractions, that's why they are Christians. The Christian ship has a great deal of momentum and will not change courses due to the influence of such as the likes of JPII, C.S. Lewis, Karl Barth, or Hans Urs Van Balthasar.)

 

[cLavain]

But the Protestant Bible cannot advance. Year after year, and century after century, the book remains as mind-twistingly ignorant as ever.

Which is why the fundamentalists' reactionary struggle against unbiased education and science appears more and more desperate when seen in the context of what we actually know of the universe.

Mind you, catholics won't exactly turn on a dime, either. Keep in mind that they needed a few hundred years to officially acknowledge the heliocentric world view!

The lesson is that a dynamic - not static - philosophy is the only sensible one.

If you are not free to change your mind then you will be left behind intellectually.

 

[Zipper]

"God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth." (2 Thes. 2:11-12).

The Bible teaches that there is a punishment for the infraction of God's law that God would render upon the non-believing sinner or Christ as his substitute. ("The wages of sin is death, Christ died for our sins.") The Bible teaches that a non-Christian who intentionally yields himself to the operation of divine judgment will not unite with God, no matter what he had hoped from his conduct. ("He that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.")

But what if God intends to penalize all who believe in the incarnation and pardon all those who don't? -- How would we know that he didn't lie to us in the Bible about the proper means of avoiding the punishment for sin? Even if we accept that God gave us the Bible, what warrant would we have to trust his advice that faith in Christ is the correct means of escaping the threatened divine penalty for the violation of God's law?

We would have no warrant at all. If God has given us the Bible, he also has revealed to us that he is fully ready to lie to humans. (2 Thes. 2:11-12). Moreover, someone who tells us that he is prepared to enforce his law by rendering penalties against the sinner -- bringing the wronger to grief -- has shown us that his sense of justice can be what, in a man, would be cruelty. For this reason also, we have no legitimate grounds not to fear that his sense of truth-telling can be what, in us, would be falseness.

As it is presented, the Bible cannot function in any legitimate way except to light up a thoughtful brain with irresolvible mortal terror. It MUST function in this way -- because the person who believes in the Biblical penalty for sin and wishes to be pardoned of it does not have any genuine grounds to know what scheme of salvation to follow in order to avoid the punishment. The Biblical scheme of salvation could be a lie nestled within a lie, and we have no true reason to believe it ain't.

The Bible is an epistemological catastrophe. I find it implausible that a God who isn't a fiendish trickster or negligent communicator would give us a message that any person capable of abstract analytical thought must recognized as an epistemological catastrophe. I find it implausible that God is a fiendish trickster or a negligent communicator. Much more likely is the idea that the Bible is a creation of man. It is best ignored in order to remain mentally integrated with the real. If it can't be ignored -- say, because you live in the US and it comes at you from every which direction, it must be addressed head on.

Here is some Good News that you won't find in the Bible: There is no divine penalty for sin -- divine judgment is transfiguring to those who have the good fortune to find themselves the object of it. God is neither a liar or cruel -- the Bible is not his representation of himself. NeoPlatonism is this religion that teaches that divine judgment is pedagogical and that God did not give us the Bible.

How can you learn that this is true? The same way you come to learn anything -- by being taught that it is true as you yield yourself to the operation of his punishment which is pedagogical. This is the circular reasoning based on trust of God that destroys all other systems of circular reasoning as you are transfigured into God.

If you wish to stay a Christian, stay there for the liturgy, music, community, moral maturation, and mystical experience and ignore the bizarre theories of God-man relations. There is a Christian denomination that generally ignores the Biblical witness and employs a Neo-Platonist understanding of God-man relations. That Church is the Eastern Orthodox Church. They also, as it happens, have beautiful liturgy, music and emphasize mystical experience.