What are your political views?

[Felgen]

**** BUSH!

And **** politics! Everything goes to **** when it is put and formed into a "system"

George W. Bush wasn't charismatic enough to represent the United States, but he alone can't take the blame for the (failed) war in Afghanistan or the financial crisis of 2008. Unlike "Bob" Mugabe, George W. Bush still believes in free elections and freedom of speech--both of which are the foundation stones of a democracy.

 

[Freeflex]

I'm not all that political, don't pay much attention to it, though I endorse my favourite candidates in elections (though the UK is a bit of a sham of a democracy really, it's really faulty), but here's some of my views on social issues:

Death Penalty:
I'm only for capital punishment in the cases of serial killers, rapists and mass murderers/terrorists. For other crimes, however, no. I don't condone it.

Abortion:
I'm pro-choice legally, but in my personal opinion it feels like a cruel thing to do. If I ever got pregnant and didn't want it, I'd make sure I had the abortion as early as possible so the fetus feels no pain and is just a cell. I think late term abortions are sick and shouldn't be allowed.

Guns/Weapons Rights:
I know many Americans are proud of their right to own guns and good for them, but I think it's quite unneccesary. Guns are manufactured with the implication that it could be used to kill someone, or animals (I dislike hunting). However for self-defence reasons, I'd have no problem with a family owning a handgun or shotgun for self-defence reasons to protect themselves or family.

I'm also not a fan of the Police having guns. Not in here Britain, anyway. Our society doesn't constitute a need for every officer to be armed, it's expensive to issue every officer with a gun and because we don't have as much guns/gun crime as places like the United States, we don't have as many people with guns so it's just.. unneccesary. I understand why Police Officers over the pond do, but it's just not needed here. In the case of high risk areas and criminals with guns we have special firearms officers for exactly that, anyway.

Speaking as an Agnostic, I also believe in separation of Church and State, and that religion is a completely family/individual thing. I don't believe religious parents should be allowed to exclude their children from important science classes which conflict the teachings in the Bible, Qu'ran, etc. I also believe homosexuals should have the right to marry in legal terms, however it would be up to a church whether or not to marry homosexuals. But as far as legality as concerned? Keep out of it!

I'm probably quite liberal. lol.

 

[EasySkanking]

George W. Bush wasn't charismatic enough to represent the United States, but he alone can't take the blame for the (failed) war in Afghanistan or the financial crisis of 2008. Unlike "Bob" Mugabe, George W. Bush still believes in free elections and freedom of speech--both of which are the foundation stones of a democracy.

I just didn't like him because he is a complete moron .

 

[coyote]

I just didn't like him because he is a complete moron .

and yet, he graduated from Yale

he also went on to get an MBA from Harvard

He is the only President ever to have an MBA - from any school.


the trouble with jumping on the bandwagon is that you don't always know where it's going

 

[EasySkanking]

Okay, you got a point there - he is smart... but not "intelligent"/wise .

That's what I meant... I still think he's a complete moron. A lot of people graduate from Harvard/Yale/etc... it's nothing special, imo :/

Besides, it was more of an insult than a statement.... I don't like a lot of the things he was involved in, I think they were quite stupid and unncessary.

 

[coyote]

Why the extreme names? "Complete moron", really?

Of course he isn't.

Do you agree with the decisions he made in office? Maybe not.

Would you have made better ones? With the information, education, experience, advisors, counsel, etc. that he had available to him?

 

[EasySkanking]

I called him a moron because I don't like him, and I just felt like saying it (do you not use curse words when upset?)

I don't think he was incapable of making better decisions. I think he just didn't choose to. And yes, I would've been able to make better ones. The decisions he made did not require education/etc... just plain common sense.

 

[coyote]

As long as you're sure about that.

I don't really care, personally.

How would you feel if people judged you as harshly?

 

[EasySkanking]

You got a point there....

But, I suppose people need an 'escape goat' for the bad things that happened. Seeing that bush is the most popular political figure (and he did have some power to influence the outcome of those things I presume ), he's the "easy" target. I just need someone to vent out my anger at those decisions... hell, perhaps bush wasn't even completely responsible for them.

Personally - I just feel that he's a "puppet" (a public image)... nothing more. But saying "**** bush" is the easiest way for people to understand my "political views".

In all honesty, I have nothing against him personally, and I'm sure that he's one smart dude. I have something against whoever is responsible for those mishaps, but Bush is just simply "the-guy-to-blame", because he represents the ultimate "political figure" - the "head" of the government .

So when I say "**** bush", I mean "**** all those people who are responsible for ****ty decicions that cost lifes and money". But like you said, we are responsible for our own suffering - WE ELECTED HIM.

So, what I reaaaaalllly meant to saaaaaay is - "**** People"! hahaha, funny enough, but true (no wonder I"m so anti-social huh?)

 

[coyote]

....we are responsible for our own suffering - WE ELECTED HIM....

Yeah, why is it never "WE made a mistake and elected the wrong administration"?

Instead, it's always, "THAT guy is a jerk!!"

So much for government "of the people, by the people, for the people."

We give them too much control when we allow them to be responsible for their own mistakes.

It's our country. It's our government.

 

[EasySkanking]

Besides, he knew what he was getting into when he became President right? Not many others get judged as harshly as a President does

Edit: You got a GOOD ****in point there!

We give them too much control when we allow them to be responsible for their own mistakes.

It's our country. It's our government.

^This. 'nuff said

 

[thor01]

I am none of the options. Left, centre, right, upwards, downwards hahaha, they're all the same, and I don't think they're really there to look after people. Also, what would you get under a far right dictatorship? A dictator and party dictating. What do you get under a far left dictatorship? A dictator and party dictating. Both sides meet in that way.

 

[Felgen]

I just didn't like him because he is a complete moron .

How is he a moron? I disagree with him, but I don't think he's a moron. He does hold a nice degree, and he has an IQ of 121. By comparisson, Andrew Johnson was illiterate until the age of 18 and had no formal education. Harry S. Truman, Grover Cleveland and Abraham Lincoln didn't hold degrees either.

 

[pinkskies]

Lol. Its funny how Americans think they have the "right to vote" for their president.

Just because you have a degree doesn't mean you have COMMON SENSE. You need some common sense to run the presidency, which Bush clearly had none of. He might have been book smart (which I doubt), but street smarts he had none. Have you ever listened to a Bush speech? An IQ of 121 is nowhere near impressive, by the way. To enroll in a high school gifted program, you have to at least have an IQ of 130. The son of a former President getting accepted into an Ivy League College? WHAT A SHOCK.

Andrew Johnson and Truman are also constantly ranked as some of the worst American presidents. That was a bad example. Cleveland caused the split of the Democratic Party. Lincoln didn't even enter the Civil War to liberate African Americans. I don't understand what the point of your comparison was. They are all equally as bad; doesn't matter if you hold a degree or not.

I think all government is corrupt, not just American government. But at least other governments don't go around brain washing people about "rights and liberties," when clearly it's all an illusion in this country.
Do you know how many times my state has rigged elections? And that's only at the local level. We're always re-voting on things. They always get away with it too.

I'm definitely far, FAR left.

 

[Felgen]

Lol. Its funny how Americans think they have the "right to vote" for their president.

The constitution says that people do indeed have the right to vote for their president.

Just because you have a degree doesn't mean you have COMMON SENSE. You need some common sense to run the presidency, which Bush clearly had none of.

So you know him? Most of the so-called bushisms are no more than urban legends spawned by the internet.

He might have been book smart (which I doubt), but street smarts he had none. Have you ever listened to a Bush speech? An IQ of 121 is nowhere near impressive, by the way. To enroll in a high school gifted program, you have to at least have an IQ of 130. The son of a former President getting accepted into an Ivy League College? WHAT A SHOCK.

There's a difference between getting accepted into a college and graduating from a college. The former is easy; the latter (to a large degree) requires that you have no life outside of your studies. Nobody said Bush was "gifted", but 120 is still better than 90% of the population. Furthermore, he graduated years before his father became the president.

Andrew Johnson and Truman are also constantly ranked as some of the worst American presidents. That was a bad example. Cleveland caused the split of the Democratic Party.

Out of the aforementioned presidents, only Harry S. Truman is considered to be among the worst.

Lincoln didn't even enter the Civil War to liberate African Americans.[/qoute]

Never said he did.

I don't understand what the point of your comparison was. They are all equally as bad; doesn't matter if you hold a degree or not.

My point was that you won't get as far as Bush without being intelligent.

I think all government is corrupt, not just American government. But at least other governments don't go around brain washing people about "rights and liberties," when clearly it's all an illusion in this country.

Apart from Canada, no country on the American continent is more democratic than the US. My grandmother had several of her loved ones shipped to concentration camps simply because they were jews. I'm sure she'd agree that the US politicians are SO VERY MEAN to you.

As far as brainwashing goes, take a look at Cuba or Venezuela. You'll never ever see a living president with the personality cult of Fidel Castro. Nor will you ever see pacifist doctors get thrown in jail for being "counter revolutionaries".

Do you know how many times my state has rigged elections? And that's only at the local level. We're always re-voting on things. They always get away with it too.

The US has never rigged any elections. The reason why the government consists of three separate branches is to prevent stuff like this.

I'm definitely far, FAR left.

You should look into what a president actually does. His primary duty is to represent the country and serve as a leader for the government. He doesn't control the laws any more than he controls the weather.

 

[pinkskies]

"The constitution says that people do indeed have the right to vote for their president."

Google "Electoral College", PLEASE. We don't have the right to vote. There are a handful of people who make the decision for each state. They can go AGAINST the popular vote in their region and vote however they please. It is completely legal.
For Example.. just recently.. Al Gore won the popular vote (the vote of the people) but Bush won the electoral vote.. So, he won the presidency. Do you think that's fair?

There is no need to defend Bush. I don't understand. I don't care if he's a savant. His political decisions were just beyond belief stupid.

American government did nothing to help the Jews. So much for rights and liberties. It took years for the most "influential" country to intervene in this horrid genocide. You know what we called the Jews? UNWASHED MASSES. We didn't want them in our country and therefore we didn't do anything. We're just as bad because we really didn't want to help.

Also, please google Japanese Internment.

Cuba knows its not democratic. They aren't promising people democracy. They are telling people what they have to offer. It's not right, but regardless people know.

"The US has never rigged any elections. The reason why the government consists of three separate branches is to prevent stuff like this."

WHAT?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm in complete disbelief. I don't even know what to say. They've NEVER rigged any elections?
Of course they have! Every government has rigged elections. EVERY SINGLE ONE. The US is no exception.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. People putting the United States on a pedestal. I mean to go as far as saying that Americans have never rigged an election! Woah!

I'm done with this conversation.

 

[Felgen]

Google "Electoral College", PLEASE. We don't have the right to vote. There are a handful of people who make the decision for each state. They can go AGAINST the popular vote in their region and vote however they please. It is completely legal.

This is called indirect election. They CAN go against the popular vote, but if they do so without a good reason, they'll have to justify it to the supreme court.

For Example.. just recently.. Al Gore won the popular vote (the vote of the people) but Bush won the electoral vote.. So, he won the presidency. Do you think that's fair?

The supreme court ruled in favour of Bush.

There is no need to defend Bush. I don't understand. I don't care if he's a savant. His political decisions were just beyond belief stupid.

What decisions would that be? The congress declared the war on Iraq and Afghanistan, not the president. Furthermore, if you're thinking about the financial crisis, it was a chain reaction stemming from the american banks and the failing car industry.

American government did nothing to help the Jews. So much for rights and liberties.

Right. The US wasn't involved in the war before 1942. Secondly, the US did a great job industrializing Israel after WW2 and did a lot to rebuild Europe.

It took years for the most "influential" country to intervene in this horrid genocide. You know what we called the Jews? UNWASHED MASSES. We didn't want them in our country and therefore we didn't do anything. We're just as bad because we really didn't want to help.

John D. Rockefeller, at one time the world's richest man, was a jew. So was Winston Churchill, the closest ally of the US. However, there were some business moguls (most notably Henry Ford and Walt Disney) who were antisemitic.

WHAT?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm in complete disbelief. I don't even know what to say. They've NEVER rigged any elections?
Of course they have! Every government has rigged elections. EVERY SINGLE ONE. The US is no exception.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. People putting the United States on a pedestal. I mean to go as far as saying that Americans have never rigged an election! Woah!

I'm done with this conversation.

Have you ever heard of 'the burden of proof'? No country that's considered a 'hybrid regime' or better rigs elections. The electoral college and the supreme court are separate entities to prevent this from happening.

 

[pinkskies]

"This is called indirect election. They CAN go against the popular vote, but if they do so without a good reason, they'll have to justify it to the supreme court.
The supreme court ruled in favour of Bush."

Indirect democracy makes me laugh. The point is, the people themselves don't actually get a say. You missed the point completely. My vote doesn't count. Someone votes for me depending on how they feel about the issue.
Supreme court? Electoral College? I DON'T CARE.
I want MY vote to count.
This is exactly why I don't vote. Its pointless.


What decisions would that be? The congress declared the war on Iraq and Afghanistan, not the president. Furthermore, if you're thinking about the financial crisis, it was a chain reaction stemming from the american banks and the failing car industry.


Bush and ESPECIALLY Cheney had everyone to do with these wars. Google Dick Cheney and the oil company Halliburton. Clearly there is a tie between the Iraq war and Cheney's motives for wanted the Iraq War (Cough, cough, OIL)
There are so many behind-the-scenes things that happen that clearly a lot of people don't know about.


Right. The US wasn't involved in the war before 1942. Secondly, the US did a great job industrializing Israel after WW2 and did a lot to rebuild Europe.

Lol, we got involved in the war for political and economic power. Not because we wanted to liberate people. haha. Israel was a piece of land given to the Jews because we all felt guilty because we did nothing to help them. They were just GIVEN it. They didn't fight for it fairly or anything. Consider the Palestinians here, please. We only help Israel because they are our only ally in the middle east (only trustable ally)

"John D. Rockefeller, at one time the world's richest man, was a jew. So was Winston Churchill, the closest ally of the US. However, there were some business moguls (most notably Henry Ford and Walt Disney) who were antisemitic."

This is what I was talking about. We didn't want the UNWASHED MASSES, ie, the common people. We took in the rich and the smart. Like Einstein. My point is we didn't really help the Jews -- the common people. The people who really needed the help.

"Have you ever heard of 'the burden of proof'? No country that's considered a 'hybrid regime' or better rigs elections. The electoral college and the supreme court are separate entities to prevent this from happening."

Not everyone follows procedure. lol. Just because there is a law doesn't mean someone is enforcing it, especially among the officials of the government themselves. I'm 1000000% sure that the US has rigged elections. Its ridiculous to think otherwise. Every government has rigged elections.


**Ok, I really Am done with this conversation now. Bye.

 

[mads]

The supreme court ruled in favour of Bush.

Maybe that was because the majority was conservative.

What decisions would that be? The congress declared the war on Iraq and Afghanistan, not the president. Furthermore, if you're thinking about the financial crisis, it was a chain reaction stemming from the american banks and the failing car industry.

It was Bush and his staff who decided to go to war, yes the congress voted for it, but it is also very normal that the polician from the ruling party votes the same as the president.

About the financial crisis. A president has a big responsibility if it goes wrong. It is his/hers job that the economy is good. The president of the united state points out the chairman of the federal reserve, so of course Bush had an impact on the financial crisis. The problem was also the subprime loans which were given to people who shouldnt have a loan at all.

 

[Felgen]

Indirect democracy makes me laugh. The point is, the people themselves don't actually get a say. You missed the point completely. My vote doesn't count. Someone votes for me depending on how they feel about the issue.
Supreme court? Electoral College? I DON'T CARE.
I want MY vote to count.
This is exactly why I don't vote. Its pointless.

The more people who vote for a candidate, the better represented he'll be. The United States is way to big for a direct election to work.

Bush and ESPECIALLY Cheney had everyone to do with these wars. Google Dick Cheney and the oil company Halliburton. Clearly there is a tie between the Iraq war and Cheney's motives for wanted the Iraq War (Cough, cough, OIL)
There are so many behind-the-scenes things that happen that clearly a lot of people don't know about.

Again: Only the congress is allowed to declear war. Second, all the oil from Iraq has been paid for. Third, Canada, Iran and Saudi Arabia has way more oil than Iraq. Neither has ever been threatened by the US.

Lol, we got involved in the war for political and economic power. Not because we wanted to liberate people.

No, you got involved because Hitler talked Japan into attacking the US.

haha. Israel was a piece of land given to the Jews because we all felt guilty because we did nothing to help them.

Israel was given to the jews for the same reasons as Pakistan was given to the muslims in 1947 and Armenia was given independence in 1991; because the country had been tossed back and forth between Brits, Ottomans and Romans for centuries.

They were just GIVEN it. They didn't fight for it fairly or anything. Consider the Palestinians here, please. We only help Israel because they are our only ally in the middle east (only trustable ally)

The US are on good terms with Bahrain, Jordan and Saudi-Arabia, to mention a few.

This is what I was talking about. We didn't want the UNWASHED MASSES, ie, the common people. We took in the rich and the smart. Like Einstein. My point is we didn't really help the Jews -- the common people. The people who really needed the help.

The Marshall Plan was just a hoax, then?

Not everyone follows procedure. lol. Just because there is a law doesn't mean someone is enforcing it, especially among the officials of the government themselves. I'm 1000000% sure that the US has rigged elections. Its ridiculous to think otherwise. Every government has rigged elections.

The laws regarding elections are very strictly enforced. "We should be skeptical to governments, but we shouldn't just make sh!t up." -- Penn Jillette