The Suicide Paradox

[coyote]

I heard this on NPR the other day.

here is the transcript: Freakonomics The Suicide Paradox: Full Transcript

it's fascinating

 

[Lea]

Seems interesting but god it´s long... Maybe I´ll get back to it later.

 

[Pacific_Loner]

Yes, very long and interesting. Thanks for providing me another source of procrastination.

edit - actually they just lost me when they started wondering why poor and miserable people don't massively commit suicide and u.s. citizens do. I thought they would stick on the Piraha

 

[userremoved]

Huh? What in the world is this?

 

[coyote]

Not to spoil the ending, but...

The paradox they arrive at in the conclusion is that the incidence of suicide in a community is relative to the community's quality of life: namely that the higher the quality of life, the higher the suicide rate - the lower quality of life, the lower the suicide rate.

So, to generalize, the cause of people wanting to kill themselves is apparently not caused by anything going on outside, beyond the person's control - but rather, it is due to a person's internal conflict - feeling like they aren't measuring up to the high standards of the rest of the community.

Paradoxically, this internal conflict is mostly waged by people who actually have the luxury to do so. The people who are too busy merely struggling to survive don't have the time or energy to waste on contemplating whether they should end their own troubles.

 

[IGotSeoul]

Not to spoil the ending, but...

The paradox they arrive at in the conclusion is that the incidence of suicide in a community is relative to the community's quality of life: namely that the higher the quality of life, the higher the suicide rate - the lower quality of life, the lower the suicide rate.

So, to generalize, the cause of people wanting to kill themselves is apparently not caused by anything going on outside, beyond the person's control - but rather, it is due to a person's internal conflict - feeling like they aren't measuring up to the high standards of the rest of the community.

Paradoxically, this internal conflict is mostly waged by people who actually have the luxury to do so. The people who are too busy merely struggling to survive don't have the time or energy to waste on contemplating whether they should end their own troubles.

I read it a few hours ago and feel it's a valid and thought provoking take on the subject. My chest felt heavy at some points.

Your summary explains it wonderfully.

 

[MollyBeGood]

i like NPR. I read this entire transcript though would have preferred to listen to it on the radio.
Freak-enomics is very eye-opening stuff. I thought it was interesting when he mentioned in the movie about how when in 73 when abortion was legal the number of people in prisons went down in the next 30 yrs because there was the ability to end a life that wasn't wanted-people who are wanted at birth are less likely to commit crimes. makes sense.

Oh yeah..Yippeee I live in the Suicide Belt

 

[carecrab]

Not to spoil the ending, but...

The paradox they arrive at in the conclusion is that the incidence of suicide in a community is relative to the community's quality of life: namely that the higher the quality of life, the higher the suicide rate - the lower quality of life, the lower the suicide rate.

So, to generalize, the cause of people wanting to kill themselves is apparently not caused by anything going on outside, beyond the person's control - but rather, it is due to a person's internal conflict - feeling like they aren't measuring up to the high standards of the rest of the community.

Paradoxically, this internal conflict is mostly waged by people who actually have the luxury to do so. The people who are too busy merely struggling to survive don't have the time or energy to waste on contemplating whether they should end their own troubles.

i guess that's true. I was suicidal, while i didn't even have such a bad life.

 

[Lea]

Not to spoil the ending, but...

The paradox they arrive at in the conclusion is that the incidence of suicide in a community is relative to the community's quality of life: namely that the higher the quality of life, the higher the suicide rate - the lower quality of life, the lower the suicide rate.

So, to generalize, the cause of people wanting to kill themselves is apparently not caused by anything going on outside, beyond the person's control - but rather, it is due to a person's internal conflict - feeling like they aren't measuring up to the high standards of the rest of the community.

Paradoxically, this internal conflict is mostly waged by people who actually have the luxury to do so. The people who are too busy merely struggling to survive don't have the time or energy to waste on contemplating whether they should end their own troubles.

What is paradox about it? I am not surprised people in industrialized countries are in deep **** unlike indians in the Amazon.

 

[MollyBeGood]

also thought it was interesting how in some cases it's a good thing to off yourself...like the old men in Hungry who are praised at that courage? that's weird to me, only because what's the point to live to a ripe old age all those yrs of struggling to become old and Wise and see your grand kids etc.. then decide you're a burden...that sucks. People should take better care of the elderly, not look at them like they are disposable. That made me sad.
completely agree that guns and alcohol is the worst combo and living in rural america where that is prevalent and having know some guys who killed them selves...also makes me sad.
In the last 2 yrs a guy my age did that(shot himself while drunk), he left behind a 3 yr old son which to me seemed absolutely senseless. I think if I had a child I would not ever entertain such thoughts.
I have to agree that if your around a lot of other people who are struggling in life that the idea of killing yourself seems stupid(3rd world countries with low suicide rates), but if you feel like everyone is just cruising along in the fast lane and your in an old jaloppee that's smoking and ready to break down, then it's like wtf...why not. The gap between the rich and poor keeps growing in the US. I feel it here because I live close to some of the wealthiest people (CEO's of major companies) and yet I struggle to pay my bills....they are amassing colossal sums of wealth while I worry about my next meal. LoL I need to move or take up a life of crime jk..maybe.

 

[carecrab]

also thought it was interesting how in some cases it's a good thing to off yourself...like the old men in Hungry who are praised at that courage? that's weird to me, only because what's the point to live to a ripe old age all those yrs of struggling to become old and Wise and see your grand kids etc.. then decide you're a burden...that sucks. People should take better care of the elderly, not look at them like they are disposable. That made me sad.
completely agree that guns and alcohol is the worst combo and living in rural america where that is prevalent and having know some guys who killed them selves...also makes me sad.
In the last 2 yrs a guy my age did that(shot himself while drunk), he left behind a 3 yr old son which to me seemed absolutely senseless. I think if I had a child I would not ever entertain such thoughts.
I have to agree that if your around a lot of other people who are struggling in life that the idea of killing yourself seems stupid(3rd world countries with low suicide rates), but if you feel like everyone is just cruising along in the fast lane and your in an old jaloppee that's smoking and ready to break down, then it's like wtf...why not. The gap between the rich and poor keeps growing in the US. I feel it here because I live close to some of the wealthiest people (CEO's of major companies) and yet I struggle to pay my bills....they are amassing colossal sums of wealth while I worry about my next meal. LoL I need to move or take up a life of crime jk..maybe.

or just go to the canadas : D

 

[CosmicNeurotica]

"For people from ages 25 to 34, suicide is the second leading cause of death. Suicides peak on Mondays"
Wow..

In the spring they are higher because you expect things to turn out better, and when they don't you become suicidal. Very very interesting.

Yeah, well that's why everything is so relative. It's neat to see the actual studies and meaning behind it all though.

The more you have to do, the less you have to think about suicide. If you're actually "doing" something, your mind is focused on the experience and learning. People want to kill themselves because they feel they are a weak link in the grand scheme of life. Nature wants to keep you alive. Only society gives you thoughts of killing yourself.
But being alone doesn't help the situation. Life must stick together and help each other out. As long as you've got that, there's less suicide. (assuming sticking together isn't a religious suicide gathering)

Religions don't work because it assumes there are rules and good and bad places. So it's much easier to be disappointed. Easier to let yourself down.

I do know for sure you have the mind power to change, to believe anything. But getting there and finding the motivation to change ain't so easy.

Thanks for the topic coyote. Interesting stuff.

Maybe now we should turn the attention to other animals. Humans aren't the only ones who commit suicide.

 

[userremoved]

So technically the more suicidal the person the more blessed they are?

@CosmicNeurotica: What other animals do that?

 

[MollyBeGood]

I think it depends on the persons culture, and how you feel about yourself in the socioeconomic class you are apart of.

the way they report or lack there of was interesting to me, as in the news. How all those copy cats after that one book wow.

Oh Yeah.....-animals and suicide-what do you mean CN?

 

[CosmicNeurotica]

@CosmicNeurotica: What other animals do that?

animals deliberately hurt themselves when put in captivity, or pets who starve themselves and die after the loss of their master or other loved one.
I also know a story of a dolphin who refused water and committed suicide in a persons arms.
We can't know exactly the psychology of other animals and how they feel in relation to their own society, but suffice it to say, I have no question they feel a sense of no worth. Some may not know how to actually "commit suicide", but live their lives in a miserable depression.

The common theme is feeling alone. If you end up alone, you are going to have problems. Life is one organism. No one can do it alone..

Edit: found a great link http://news.softpedia.com/news/Do-Animals-Commit-Suicide-63441.shtml

 

[coyote]

^interesting stuff, CN - thanks

 

[userremoved]

animals deliberately hurt themselves when put in captivity, or pets who starve themselves and die after the loss of their master or other loved one.
I also know a story of a dolphin who refused water and committed suicide in a persons arms.
We can't know exactly the psychology of other animals and how they feel in relation to their own society, but suffice it to say, I have no question they feel a sense of no worth. Some may not know how to actually "commit suicide", but live their lives in a miserable depression.

The common theme is feeling alone. If you end up alone, you are going to have problems. Life is one organism. No one can do it alone..

Edit: found a great link Do Animals Commit Suicide? - Softpedia

I didn't know they felt like we did. Thats incredibly sad. ::

 

[Pookah]

I wonder if it might have something to do with level of education as well.

 

[carecrab]

I wonder if it might have something to do with level of education as well.

5 Unexpected Downsides of High Intelligence | Cracked.com

 

[Apotheosis]

Ironically enough, I'm feeling incredibly depressed (not because of the article) so I'm not up for writing much.

I will say that I agree with everything in the article and have tried to discuss those same points several times with my (now former) psychologist who shot me down on the basis that because I "lacked a formal education", my thoughts on the matter were not valid.

Eat it, bitch.

...I may post more later but much of what I have to say is very personal and I'm not in an open mood right now.