Notes on not being the "nice guy"

[eso]

ok here are the notes i've been taking on the program to overcome the 'nice guy syndrome', which is a cd available on amazon.com. However, it's about $50 and that's discounted on sale. The actual price is $100 or something.

This is an audio program for men, definitely love-shy men, trying to find women. Women I think should also definitely read this over as well.

These are notes on the content of the program, not MY thoughts or opinions. So if you'd like to read them over please do. Discuss, etc. If you want more explanation on something I will do my best to recall what it is they said and try to post further.

This is only notes on the very first part of the program. There is a lot left for me to take notes of.


--



How men think of women, listed in 4 stages/types
1. like a child, afraid of cooties
2. terrified of and/or idealizing women
3. a "player", destructive for both men and women. Nice/shy men don't want to be this person
4. being self-expressed, being ok with that, and letting women have their own, real responses to you

Problems with nice/shy men, internally:
1. believe in the perfect woman
- shy men have so little real life experience they may not be sure what really turns them on.
- they might not be open to talking to women and/or being curious about all women, who might have qualities they might like. Instead they only talk to those they might think they like best. Keeps you locked down.
2. dive in way too deep, way too fast
- fall in love too fast, move too fast, get involved too easily.
3. think women need to respond perfectly to them
- if they don't respond correctly, you give up.
4. don't live in reality about women
- cynical, naive, or unrealistic about women

Problems of nice/shy men's interactions with women
1. They tend to idealize their ability to hurt women.
- they think sexual interest in women is hurtful
2. They tend to inflate the impact they have on women.
- every interaction will "wreck a woman's day" regardless of the situation, whether it be simply saying hi to trying to kiss one.
3. They idealize that they can save women.
- men are bad, sexuality is bad, but I'm a really good guy and by being nice and sweet I can save the women I interact with.
4. They hang out with women they want to be sexual with
- for example, attractive women who aren't sexual or are unavailable
5. They hang out with women without learning their status
- don't push the interactions to find out if they're interested
6. They are hoping unrealistically that hanging out with women will suddenly turn sexual
- it's a man's job to pursue and a miracle will not occur.
- shy men are terrified that risking sexual/flirting behavior means that you are doing something TO a woman. Appropriate risks actually mean that are you doing something FOR her, because if you take a risk that opens up her ability to take risks (more later).
7. They come across as boring
- deny their life energy, interest, passions. Don't take risks. End up as just friends.

The results of these problems. Shy guys:
-live in fear, discomfort, panic around women
-can't take risks with women
-can't provide excitement
-can't express themselves
-are afraid to hurt women so they end up trying to control all outcomes so that women don't get hurt/upset
-end up feeling ashamed of themselves as if something's wrong

How nice/shy men respect women
Nice/shy men have one thing in common, they don't want to hurt/upset women. They respect women by repressing themselves and never showing sexual interest. To the nice/shy guy, that's what respecting a woman is. These men rather choose to be good and respectful over their own desire for companionship or sex.

Bad results of a false or misdirected respect for women
- You think women are fragile and pure.
- You believe your desire for women is destructive to them.
- You feel you must rescue women.


TO BE CONTINUED....

 

[Rembrandt Broam]

6. They are hoping unrealistically that hanging out with women will suddenly turn sexual
- it's a man's job to pursue and a miracle will not occur.

There's a lot of BS and overanalyzing about this whole "nice guy" thing in my opinion, but I think the root cause of a lot of nice guy bitterness is right there. A lot of nice guys (and I do believe they are genuinely nice guys) will say that being a nice guy never got them anywhere with women, but what they actually mean is that being unassertive never got them anywhere with women.

It's as if they think that by being nice they can bypass the need to pursue the woman they're interested in, and that she'll suddenly take the initiative or the relationship will magically just materialise out of thin air. In reality, the woman is either not interested or is waiting for the guy to make his move. A move that never comes, at which point she will naturally assume that there is no interest.

It's a pity that such miscommunications occur, but unfortunately I don't see the way the world of human interaction works changing to accommodate the more shy and reticent among us.

 

[philly2bits]

Since when did nice equal shy and vice versa? What you are describing sounds more like a timid, inexperienced guy with unrealistic expectations. Is that what "nice guy syndrome" is? The name is very misleading.

 

[AsTimeBurns]

Basically describing me

 

[eso]

Since when did nice equal shy and vice versa? What you are describing sounds more like a timid, inexperienced guy with unrealistic expectations. Is that what "nice guy syndrome" is? The name is very misleading.

the audio program makes a specific point to use the labels interchangeably because the clients these people supposedly coached were both "the nice guy" AND shy.

I think this is basically addressing what we've been calling "love shy men" this entire time. And you know what that is, those are exactly that... both the nice guys and shy as well, and that's how they get into their predicament.

 

[eso]

**********CONTINUED NOTES*********

This is the biggie... the fundamental reason you remain shy and afraid of women:

GROUPS
A group is a category of people that you want to be a part of, people who are so important to you that you need their connection, so you took their values (or perceived values) about how to respect women.

examples:
family, culture, ethnicity, religion, wealth class, school peer group, your job, all men, all women

These groups can control your way of being and thinking because they are important to you. You took on limiting beliefs because of your connection to these groups. Your groups can tell you how men should behave or respect women and you can't break your bond with these groups. It becomes too risky to have success with women because it would break your bond with a group. This is a fundamental concept that keeps you shy.

Don't remove these groups from your life, they are important to your identity, soul, and being. You only have to change/tweak your relationship to them.

Short examples of groups and how their connections keep you shy.
These few examples are ways you might respect your group but also might repress your sexuality.
group: religion
- being pure
- not lusting
- seeing women as whores
group: ethnicity
- not letting down my culture
- not dating outside ethnicity
- my culture deems dating is wasteful or silly
group: family
- very connected to your mom, ie don't hit on women to respect her
- making up for your dad's treatment of mom
- maybe you're the protector of a younger sister, so you repress yourself around women you care about
group: men
- not take a risk to be seen as a 'creep'
- not seem abusive
- not be like "other men" like obnoxious or rude
group: women
- not be like other men
- don't scare them
- make them feel comfortable
group: feminists
- not okay to have sexual fantasies
- all men are alike, they are a problem, you have to make up for being a man

There are tons more. Groups can be anything and the connections and beliefs that they give you can be anything.

What to do:
1) Write down your groups and how they might affect your beliefs of how to treat women in order for you to remain connected to that group.
2) Figure out a way to remain connected and respectful to your groups that still allow you to be sexual and express sexuality and confidence with women. The way you think of must really vibe with you internally, that you could actually do it and not compromise your respect and connection to your groups.

Some examples (not rules!!) of how you *might* do this:
religion:
- Believe your faith or god will provide and it will be okay. Use that to relax and your interactions will be more natural.
ethnicity:
- Bring pride to your culture by dating, be open to the sexual culture from within your own ethnicity
family:
- Making sure you are happy because that's what your family would want, for you to date and be with women.
men & women:
- Accepting your sexuality, letting women have relationships with you, letting women be themselves around you
feminist:
- Believe in real equal rights for men and women. Not feel guilty about being male but also remain decent by still retaining feminist values

It might take a while to figure out both your groups and your solution and refine it over and over before you're ready to move on with going out and/or flirting women.

 

[EdgeCrusher]

some of that first part describes me. some of it doesnt pertain to me as i have never actually been in love or even in a relationship. i also dont believe in the "perfect" woman. there is no such thing, no one is perfect.

as for the groups thing, not so much. the only one that describes me as not being like other men as far as the obnoxious and rude thing goes. but that isnt a guy only thing. im just not that way and never have been.

 

[eso]

some of that first part describes me. some of it doesnt pertain to me as i have never actually been in love or even in a relationship. i also dont believe in the "perfect" woman. there is no such thing, no one is perfect.

as for the groups thing, not so much. the only one that describes me as not being like other men as far as the obnoxious and rude thing goes. but that isnt a guy only thing. im just not that way and never have been.

the information pertains to men who have never been in love or a relationship.

IOW the stuff noted here is about men's general interactions and thoughts with women, not notes on how men react when in a real relationship.

so for example when it says men 'fall in love to fast' it doesn't mean they actually get into a relationship with a woman. it means they just fall for some women too quickly (or what they think is love). IOW this is a symptom of the way a nice guy thinks. They think they found the right one immediately and this in turn is a problem for how they interact with that woman in the future. Makes you even more anxious, be unrealistic about things, etc.

And as for the groups, this is not an exhaustive or complete list. They simply give you a few ideas (and even I only took down maybe half of the examples they said, I don't type that fast) and then ask you to find your groups, because there's no way to know and list every group and possible connection any individual out there could have, that would take eons.

 

[pebblesdundee]

I just wrote a full 3 paragraphs, but after realizing I was wasting my time, I think I'll sum it up in a few words. This post is bull. Just my opinion

 

[mmmm]

Responding to the original post (don't want to quote all that): Hey, I know that guy!

 

[HH]

Damn....that's a lot of info to take in. If you're a nice guy then you're a nice guy, why go and change that. This whole nice guy/how to pick up women thing is a complete mine field I think.....just go with the flow and accept who you are, the rest is BS

 

[mmmm]

Damn....that's a lot of info to take in. If you're a nice guy then you're a nice guy, why go and change that. This whole nice guy/how to pick up women thing is a complete mine field I think.....just go with the flow and accept who you are, the rest is BS

Yes, absolutely. If you are a nice guy please continue to be one. Plenty of women will appreciate you. However, if you think you might be the guy described in the OP, that's hardly my definition of nice. Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

The person I mentioned on page one has the mindset of "hey, I'm so nice. Why can't you idiot retard women appreciate how nice I am. There's obviously something wrong with the entire gender." I know that person is not every "nice-shy-guy" but in my experioence, his stance is far from unique.

I agree with everyone who said that "nice" is the wrong word for this situation. I reckon we were more accurate with our "love-shy" description.

 

[eso]

alright I know this is coming in pretty fast but so far I am taking the notes and this is what's coming out..

again, seriously guys...
1: there are not my ideas, I am simply taking notes for myself and just sharing what I've heard from the audio program.
by the way the name of the program is "Overcoming the Nice Guy Syndrome: How to Stop Being Shy Without Becoming A Jerk"
2: try to be open to the material. you never know what you will learn or what you may be denying in yourself. if it's not for you, it's not for you but don't discount something so easily without looking inside yourself first.

Personally I think the information on groups is very important. There is no such thing as a person who didn't learn limiting beliefs, not only about women but everything in general, in order to remain connected to very important people in their lives - family, friends, religion, men, women, coworkers, etc. This is potentially a very important clue as to how you could reduce your anxiety in all aspects of your life.



***************** notes continued ******************


The fallacy of the nice guy's beliefs of women
Nice/shy men puff themselves up by thinking they'll save or protect women by not being jerks like "other men." But it's incredibly narcissistic to think you have that kind of power when you don't. They think they won't hurt women like "players" do, but there's no guarantee and you certainly could. They repress their sexuality. Anything scary or dangerous about masculinity they get rid of, to be an 'honorary woman.' This goes back to your group connections to "men" or "women." They think they can get in touch with women's "pure" and "fragile" natures. Therefore, they became just friends and be helpful to women instead of being romantic.

The truth is, women are not that fragile and pure, and the "nice" guy's definition of "respecting women" has not worked, and that in fact could make you not nice at all.

Results of "women are fragile and pure" thinking by shy men:
1. They become a control freak in order to feel safe with women
- Shy men constantly fear losing control and accidentally hurting/being hurt by women, so they are always self-conscious, constantly questioning if they are offending women. So they end up being very controlling and have no idea they are doing it. This is due to their definition of respect and the desire to connect to their groups.
- Women say to nice men they feel safe with them, but it's moreso the illusion of safety. Shy men have confused 'safety' and 'controlling.' They think they can be safe and check their lustful desires by controlling everything. As a result:
2. A shy man's range of emotion is very limited.
- Shy men don't have the freedom to express themselves and so others around them won't either. They won't take risks and others around them can't either.
- When you are a control freak with this definition of 'respect', it restricts women and is disrespectful, and also upsets them.
3. They seem "unobtainable, controlling, and difficult" to women.
- You will seem like a jerk to women because you refuse to interact with them, even though you are spending all your time thinking and trying not to be one.
- The space you create for women mirrors the space you create for yourself. Isn't it easier to talk to people who are relaxed? Their relaxation provides a space for you to relax and express yourself as they do. If you don't feel comfortable being a man, they won't feel comfortable being a woman.
- It's hard for women to be themselves, to express themselves, around shy men. This hurts and inconveniences her.
- They may feel physically safe around you, but not necessarily feel you are open to being with them romantically.
- Therefore, shy men may seem aloof, remote, arrogant, smug, controlling.

If you are a good guy who'd be loving and caring to women, and you most likely are, but you're so shy or too nice to be yourself and express yourself to women and let them know you, who's left to date? The jerks. The ones who are expressive.


A new definition of respect as it pertains to women:
"Being yourself and letting other people be themselves and having their own responses to you."
- Shy/nice men don't do this. They're not themselves with women, they try to or want to control the outcome/women's responses to them.

What shy men tend to do, either:
1. never talk to women and hope for a miracle
2. instant commitment
- They find someone they feel to be "the one" and jump right in. If she's not the one, they don't risk showing their sexual side in hopes of not offending her.
- Shy men are so afraid that their sexuality will make them guilty that they have to validate it by saying "she's the one."
- Don't destroy a relationship at the beginning by wanting to know the outcome immediately.

If you really want to respect women, you have to be willing in your relationships with them to go into the unknown. Risk that you don't know where this relationship will go, and paradoxically that will make it work.

RISK
Men who get women but STILL somehow remain a decent person (ie: not a jerk) provide both risk and safety. Jerks simply provide risk but not safety, and nice guys provide safety but no risk.

The trick is, if you provide risk, this paradoxically also creates safety. As we've learned already, if you let a woman have her own responses to you, this creates a zone where she can grow, trust, and relate to you better.

Risks involve maybe winking, smiling, showing romantic interest, etc. You are creating a space for her to take a risk back to show some of herself back. You are not doing something to her, you are doing something for her. Let her see you, you can see her, that will build attraction and connection. Taking these risks is a gift to women, not an attack.

Remember, shy men either risk nothing or everything. Taking small, appropriate risks over time expands the social container between you and the woman. It grows and you can get closer and more intimate. Doing too much at once or none at all destroys the whole container. Chemisty and attraction are not the same as trust. Don't risk your entire heart right away. Risk is a quantity you exchange with women. You give some, she gives the same back.

more later...

 

[Kinetik]

I can just imagine some sexually-frustrated first-year psych student trying to 'crack the code' and producing all this bad boy stuff in hopes of finally getting with women and making a few bucks on the sale of some lame ebook. He probably also has a code name along the lines of "Mystery", secretly idolizes the Fonz, and uses Axe deodorant.

But seriously though, it doesn't really matter how you act. Some women want warriors, some women want priests. If you spend your life trying to convert your behavior in an effort to become something you're not, you're just lying to yourself. Even if you do somehow manage to 'master the game' or whatever you'll spend so long doing it that you'll be at an age where women aren't even interested in dating a shallow, emotionally stunted bad boy dickhead. The older I get the more I see women who really do want a stable, down to earth guy.

I suppose ultimately the problem with this bad boy bs is that it caters to one very specific group of women in one very specific age range. The world is so much more varied than that. I do agree with meeting as many different women as possible and broadening your chances, but again, it should be done to find a woman who suits you as you are, not changing yourself to suit what you believe women like. Now I'll be the first to concede that it's easy to develop tunnel vision and believe whatever the internet tells you when you don't get out much, but honestly, spend some time actually meeting as many new people as you can and you'll see that there are people out there who truly will like you for you. That's the only real hurdle we get stuck on - putting ourselves out there. There's nothing wrong with us as people.

 

[mmmm]

I can just imagine some sexually-frustrated first-year psych student trying to 'crack the code' and producing all this bad boy stuff in hopes of finally getting with women and making a few bucks on the sale of some lame ebook. He probably also has a code name along the lines of "Mystery", secretly idolizes the Fonz, and uses Axe deodorant.

This is absolute publishable poetry. Magnificent.

 

[Waybuloo]

I don't think a nice guy is necessarily shy. A shy guy won't impose on a woman due to his own issues, not because he wants the best for the woman. A nice guy thinks more about the woman and is not so self centred.

Your description sounds like a martyr.

I don't think a nice guy would hesitate to ask a woman out just because he's nice. He doesn't have to have self esteem issues.

 

[eso]

I can just imagine some sexually-frustrated first-year psych student trying to 'crack the code' and producing all this bad boy stuff in hopes of finally getting with women and making a few bucks on the sale of some lame ebook. He probably also has a code name along the lines of "Mystery", secretly idolizes the Fonz, and uses Axe deodorant.

But seriously though, it doesn't really matter how you act. Some women want warriors, some women want priests. If you spend your life trying to convert your behavior in an effort to become something you're not, you're just lying to yourself. Even if you do somehow manage to 'master the game' or whatever you'll spend so long doing it that you'll be at an age where women aren't even interested in dating a shallow, emotionally stunted bad boy dickhead. The older I get the more I see women who really do want a stable, down to earth guy.

I suppose ultimately the problem with this bad boy bs is that it caters to one very specific group of women in one very specific age range. The world is so much more varied than that. I do agree with meeting as many different women as possible and broadening your chances, but again, it should be done to find a woman who suits you as you are, not changing yourself to suit what you believe women like. Now I'll be the first to concede that it's easy to develop tunnel vision and believe whatever the internet tells you when you don't get out much, but honestly, spend some time actually meeting as many new people as you can and you'll see that there are people out there who truly will like you for you. That's the only real hurdle we get stuck on - putting ourselves out there. There's nothing wrong with us as people.

I haven't listened to this entire audio thing yet, and again, i'm just taking notes and sharing what I have here.

But I would like to ask you, what about the quote ""Being yourself and letting other people be themselves and having their own responses to you" which, from what I can see so far (and in the notes posted so far), is the mantra they are trying to impress upon men, goes against what you just said?

As I'm listening to this CD, I realize it's true, shy men don't express themselves, they can't really be themselves, and that is a major problem. and we are so concerned about what other people will think. Why not just 'let that go'? Obviously a tall order but from what I can see this is what the audio program is trying to break down into logical bits.

After I'm done listening to this entirely, I definitely will have my own opinion as to what I think of it and how successful it put the message across.

 

[Kinetik]

Don't get me wrong, I do think there are bits and pieces of good info here, but it does go a little far. It gives men the impression that there's too much wrong with them, when that's not the case. The quote you mentioned is a good one, and as I said, I also agree with meeting as many different people as possible as well as not being attached to any single outcome. But that's more or less it as far as I'm concerned.

At the end of the day, I think shy/nice men want to believe they can score. It's not about meeting 'the one' because that's too abstract, too boring, and too limited. As men, we want to know that many different women want us, not just the one we end up with. The good news is that it's very possible. I only hit the nightlife sporadically (me and my brother go drinking sometimes) and I do get lucky at times. Now I don't have any friends in the real world, I have no game, I can't dance, and I'm only average looking. But if I can go out, get drunk and get some attention, anyone can. As I said, it's just about taking that initial step to put yourself out there on a consistent basis.

 

[eso]

Don't get me wrong, I do think there are bits and pieces of good info here, but it does go a little far. It gives men the impression that there's too much wrong with them, when that's not the case. The quote you mentioned is a good one, and as I said, I also agree with meeting as many different people as possible as well as not being attached to any single outcome. But that's more or less it as far as I'm concerned.

At the end of the day, I think shy/nice men want to believe they can score. It's not about meeting 'the one' because that's too abstract, too boring, and too limited. As men, we want to know that many different women want us, not just the one we end up with. The good news is that it's very possible. I only hit the nightlife sporadically (me and my brother go drinking sometimes) and I do get lucky at times. Now I don't have any friends in the real world, I have no game, I can't dance, and I'm only average looking. But if I can go out, get drunk and get some attention, anyone can. As I said, it's just about taking that initial step to put yourself out there on a consistent basis.

Ok i can certainly agree with you there. I certainly would want many women to want me. I think this program isn't really about being brave enough to just go out as it is about, mentally and to their core beliefs, why some men stop themselves.
This isn't about "all nice guys want to find the one" that's just one limiting belief that some nice guys fall into. I mean this entire thing is just a list of possibilities, not 'what all nice guys do'.

"Be yourself", as far as I'm concerned, is the best and worst advice anyone can give. Because it is absolutely true, it works. The problem is how do you do it if something like anxiety gets in the way or whatever. And if you want to accept your anxiety, what are some ways you can express that to others who might like you so that you can make more friends or date more often? Certainly I believe there are ways we can push forward the goodness in ourselves to others without compromising our own real selves and 'being an actor' or 'being fake'. But in order to do that, I think you really have to look into yourself and be open to challenge your thoughts about yourself and how you present yourself to the world.

 

[eso]

For the sake of completeness, here's the rest of the notes. I'm sure you'll find all the bad boy information you will ever need here. I'll post my thoughts on what I thought of all this some time later.


*********************** final notes *************************


Initial risks with women
-say hi
-wave
-eye contact
-wink
-check her out

Higher risks
-compliment her
-situational flirting
-deepening conversations
-ask about her

Next level
-asking for number
-setting a date
-emailing/calling
-doing something together
-touching her

All this provides excitement to her life.

=========

Self-expression as respect
to be self-expressed, you:
-your own character
-individual
-express uniqueness
-authentic
-let women have their own responses and not control them

Find your own way with the material provided, these rules are not the bible, they are fundamentals. Be unique, have your uniqueness be an expression of yourself. You have to express the real you, or you will appear fake to others. Don't be afraid to be argumentative, especially of this material (referring to themselves).

More upsetting to shy men is not that they're not getting laid, it's that they want to be self-expressed with women but can't do it.

What you want should mediate your behavior, not what other people think.

Lots of men want an exact way, a rule book, as to how to talk to women (for example, how long do I wait to call a woman after getting a number). There aren't rigid rules. Do what you want. Meet women when and where you want to meet them, make your own judgements based on what you want. What you want is a way to express yourself and can eventually be a path to real respect to women and honestly being yourself.

vitality
shy men have gotten out of the habit of expressing their own vitality and energy
types of vitality: 1 physical vitality, 2 vocal excitement

start bringing physical vitality to your expression
- try to express your body more while talking
- in private, dance for a few minutes to get your energy up
- exercise regularly

improving vocal excitement
- have a variety of vocal tones, don't be too monotoned. people might talk like this because they feel they don't want to upset others.
- figure out things to get excited about and speak about them.
- learn to "speak from your balls" or "speak from your gut". When you say something it should come from your core. close your eyes, sense your energy from within your gut (or balls as they say), breathe, and get a sense of yourself down in your core. Many shy people speak from their heads. Take note and try to move it down and speak from your core when you talk.
- breathe more deeply

With more vitality in your gestures and voice, you run the risk of looking silly and lots of shy men don't like that. But people react better, and you can get away with more, if you have energy when you speak and act. Therefore, women will feel freer to be just as silly or energetic back with you.

curiosity
- Use it or lose it. If you repress curiousity, you lose the ability and have to work to get your natural curiosity back.
- Most shy people don't want to bother others and ask questions because it could cause trouble.
- The problem for shy men: if you ask women questions, suddenly you're not in control of the interaction anymore.
- Pickup lines and methods don't work as well as natural conversation! Don't attempt to control the situation by trying to seduce or use tricks.
- Letting things go more out of your control is a better way to get someone more interested in you.
- Be curious, let go of the outcome. Curiosity, playfulness, and sexyness all relate to each other.
- Don't be scared of not knowing where the interaction will go. This entire process is a risk.

good things about curiosity
- incredibly easy to do
- not manipulative of woman
- lets you bond, very exciting, creates a connection
- don't need a "line", don't need to have something ready to say

how to do it
- just ask a question that you are curious about, use the answer to ask the next curious question
- don't worry about complimenting someone. you certainly can, but don't worry yourself over it. women can be suspicious of that anyway
- ask a real question, not a statement in the form of a question (ex: It's nice out, isn't it?)
- don't talk about yourself
- not overly sexual
- not an interrogation
- avoid yes or no questions
- women are not always friendly, don't take it personally
- don't try to impress someone, have them be impressive to you
- remember to find your own voice and expression. Don't use these as rigid rules!
- remember these aren't trying to hit on women, this is just to get yourself in the habit of taking risks and talking to women.
- practice being curious with anyone
- see how long you can go without talking about yourself

Be free from having to generate things or lines to impress people with. Allow yourself to follow your curiosity, that helps conversations greatly. Being a good listener is a rarity.

curiosity in life
- feeds your vitality
- this leads you to try to produce a life separate from women
- curiosity of things charge you up, give energy in your life, makes you automatically more interesting
- don't worry about how silly your curiosities are, remember silliness relates to curiosity and sexyness.
- being delighted about these things makes you more attractive
- being more well-rounded in your curiosities gives you more things to talk about when you get to that point

more about self expression, or, the authors' own personal opinions about sexuality:
- men more relaxed about their own sexuality and fantasies, that creates safety and comfort with women who feel safe and more open to be with you. Don't feel ashamed and if you have fantasies that need to be practiced away from your regular life, do them.
- as long as you fulfill your desires in a responsible way it will help your vitality and energy
- have a lot of male friends, you need the ability to talk to men and talk about male subjects. Hanging around so many women will drive you crazy. You can be self-expressed. Might be detrimental if you need to censor yourself if you're around women too often.

the 4 guys
- you need access to/get in touch with these 'guys' within yourself
1. warrior guy, a badass who can do anything
2. caring guy, cares about people and how things go
3. romantic guy, classic don juan
4. life of the party, fun guy

express yourself by showing romantic moves
flirty risks. Friends don't do this, lovers do:
1. look into her eyes "too long"
- hold eye contact just slightly too long so she recognizes that you are a real man with her, a little ballsy. "Just friends" don't do that.
2. be decisive, and decide quickly
3. Winking
- very hard to do, out of the ordinary, but creates intimacy.
4. check her out
- women do want you to look at them, just don't do it in a way where you are objectifying them
- look at her eyes and in less than a second sweep down and look and back to her eyes and keep smiling. They notice, they see you are interested, but also you are still interested in being present with her and not just because she's pretty.
5. keep your body powerful
- find mental and physical ways to keep your posture good and seem powerful
6. compliment her
- talk about her looks, keep it personal, make her feel appreciated, that you notice her as a woman and that she's beautiful
- romance lives in details. notice her accessories, her smile, etc.
- find your own style of compliments that work for you and keep trying
7. whisper
- makes an intimate moment between you, draws personal space together

Try to create your own romantic moves/ideas.

Fundamentals of being self-expressed
1. Structures and record keeping
- hold yourself in the game. Maybe have a coach. Have a buddy that goes with you. Don't hold all this stuff in your head, keep it recorded.
2. Initiate everything with women
- you are responsible for romance or it's not going to happen.
3. Dealing with rejection
- remember that dating is a numbers game, you'll have a lot more rejections until a yes
- change your interpretation of a rejection to something that is not your own problem/fault
- redirect your attention right away, don't dwell, move on
4. celebrate your victories, no matter how small. Reward yourself step by step.
- even if you said hi to a woman and she smiled, celebrate that victory. Don't wait until you get laid.
5. do your niche work
- find places that you can reliably meet women, especially safe areas like classes or etc.
6. show your romantic interest
7. follow up leads, don't have a one hope, find lots of women you can pursue. All eggs in one basket is detrimental.
8. build a life that you love separate from women!
- do not let the thought of having a woman validate your life. women are your potential partners, not just to serve you and your ideals.

remember that all this material usually takes months to get through.